Why did ZOS create Craglorn?

Delte · August 2014

I don't like the idea of Craglorn, never had liked the idea of time trials or raids either. They should of spent time on fixing bugs and adding new land mass rather than on a zone just for raiding.

phaneub17_ESO · August 2014

I tried Craglorn for a few hours at most, I kept dying to the outside world trash while trying to do some of the quests; I eventually gave up trying to complete anything in that zone. I too am stuck at VR10 and trying to find ways to get my ranks up in other ways before the next patch with no real progress. Right now I'm going back through older content to see what quests I might have missed and trying to do the PvE quests in Cyrodiil which isn't easy when the entire zone is controlled by Daggerfall Covenant. I am fairing better at just grinding Razak's Wheel public dungeon for group mob Vet points, but that gets boring real fast.

eliisra · August 2014

My guess would be speed leveling. Loads of people where complaining about slow exp and demoralizing VR grind. Just look at all the posts in the pasts about how the VR grind is killing the game etc.

Than came Craglorn where you can get VR12 in a few days. I rather enjoy the massive exp myself, since I have alts to level up.

But they should have added better exp and rewards for the main quests really. Spamming bosses or anom is sadly more profitable than clearing Craglorn. I'm not asking for much. But let's say completing the main quests would reward reasonable exp, unique costume and a title, that would go a long way.

I completed Shada's Tear with a group. Several wipes since first time in there, loads of potions and soul gems used. Than the reward is mediocre exp and a VR10 green sturdy light helmet with stamina lol. That's the types of things that makes people stick to boss grind.

cracker81 · August 2014

Grinding is good in my opinion. I can make stead v rank and if I get bored. I can head to other areas for whatever vet content. If I get bored there head to cyrodiil some pvp and pve. Then when I get to v12, same plus craglorn quest with my friends. Love this game I can do any thing from vet dungeons/public, trials, solo quest/ dungeons, pvp or pve in a pvp area, crafting, playing the guild stores(make money), grind for lvl/gear and group quest. You just have to look around. Best solo dungeons in my opinion is in cyrodiil and challenging. If you are not so good, best believe you better bring a buddy. I put their difficulty close to public dungeons but enough to solo. I look at cyrodiil solo dungeons as maybe end game for solo ppl. Why? Danger from pvp, if you die in pvp you go to your faction nearest Rez area(die in pve you can Rez),difficulty, 2 to 3 bosses in a dungeon, and high drop rate for items.

boogie95 · August 2014

join a guild and quest with them finding groups is easy quest with your guild stop wineing and join a guild

Vahrokh · August 2014

eliisra wrote: »

But they should have added better exp and rewards for the main quests really. Spamming bosses or anom is sadly more profitable than clearing Craglorn. I'm not asking for much. But let's say completing the main quests would reward reasonable exp, unique costume and a title, that would go a long way.

I completed Shada's Tear with a group. Several wipes since first time in there, loads of potions and soul gems used. Than the reward is mediocre exp and a VR10 green sturdy light helmet with stamina lol. That's the types of things that makes people stick to boss grind.

Yesterday at 3am (!) I finally managed to get a group of 3 (four? FORGET THAT) to Shada's tear and who had it at the same "step".

The first boss, in a dungeon for 4, was 10 times harder than the raid bosses in outworld and the first bosses in trials.

The reward? Basically ZERO.

That's what's wrong with Craglorn in a nutshell.

aleister · August 2014

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

I do realize the reasoning behind them creating it. But there is no doubt that Craglorn(exploitlorn) is a complete joke. Sit there and watch zone chat and all you'll see is people trying to find grind groups (exploit groups) who are just trying to level and cannot be bothered to quest.

My v10 has been at that level for 3 weeks and it's impossible to find a group to quest with.

Just change it so things can be soloed already. Craglorn never should have been designed the way it is. Don't get me started on the ridiculousness of trials and what it's done to the nerf debate. Don't design a game saying "play how you want" and at the same time make it so you have to go skirt/stick if you want to compete with trial times.

What a ridiculous idea of what end-game should be.

ZOS is tying themselves into a pretzel in order to be different and avoid the typical end-game raiding model of other MMOs. They should have foreseen grind groups when they made veteran leveling such a long, dull slog with crap rewards. The lure of being able to bypass that is too appealing and so no one should be surprised that it is so popular.

People aren't questing in Craglorn for the same reason - the reward isn't worth the time. ZOS could easily fix this by buffing the XP substantially and upping the drop rate of decent blue & purples items in quests, but as it stands you're lucky to come out with anything at all.

bosmern_ESO · August 2014

So you're complaining that a MMO shouldn't encourage people to group up and everyone should just be completely silent with every update to be geared to solo players?

Anastasia · August 2014

aleister wrote: »

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

I do realize the reasoning behind them creating it. But there is no doubt that Craglorn(exploitlorn) is a complete joke. Sit there and watch zone chat and all you'll see is people trying to find grind groups (exploit groups) who are just trying to level and cannot be bothered to quest.

My v10 has been at that level for 3 weeks and it's impossible to find a group to quest with.

Just change it so things can be soloed already. Craglorn never should have been designed the way it is. Don't get me started on the ridiculousness of trials and what it's done to the nerf debate. Don't design a game saying "play how you want" and at the same time make it so you have to go skirt/stick if you want to compete with trial times.

What a ridiculous idea of what end-game should be.

ZOS is tying themselves into a pretzel in order to be different and avoid the typical end-game raiding model of other MMOs. They should have foreseen grind groups when they made veteran leveling such a long, dull slog with crap rewards. The lure of being able to bypass that is too appealing and so no one should be surprised that it is so popular.

People aren't questing in Craglorn for the same reason - the reward isn't worth the time. ZOS could easily fix this by buffing the XP substantially and upping the drop rate of decent blue & purples items in quests, but as it stands you're lucky to come out with anything at all.

Awesome post aleister. The puzzling, completely totally puzzling question is WHY? Why doesn't ZOS adjust as in your suggestion.

Its like a foreign language to me, completely do not understand when it would create such an interest in what is currently flucked up content - but it is grouping content they worked hard to create in the first place.

Make some adjustments and create grouping-motivation in Craglorn ZOS, do eet!!!

boogie95 · August 2014

This is a MMO not a solo game if you want solo go play a none mmo game.

also some people enjoy grinding so why cant they grind if you dont like it dont grind as for groups you don't want a half ass pug group anyways you want a nice group using team-speak join a guild.

dharbert · August 2014

boogie95 wrote: »

This is a MMO not a solo game if you want solo go play a none mmo game.

also some people enjoy grinding so why cant they grind if you dont like it dont grind as for groups you dont want a half ass pug group anyways you want a nice group using teamspeak joina guild and if you all need a good guild to join then send me your in game account name and i will have the officer of my very active guild invite anyone that wants to join with active pvp, grinding groups quest groups trails runs we have it all

Try that again, in English perhaps. Maybe throw a period or two in there.

starlizard70ub17_ESO · August 2014

Craglorn seems to me like a good idea that when horribly wrong because it wasn't well thought out. It's too hard to do group content because of phasing and other reasons.

kieso · August 2014

hopefully it becomes better when they fix that phasing junk.

Singular · August 2014

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

I do realize the reasoning behind them creating it.

Oh. Ok. You got it in one!

KariTR · August 2014

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

So you're complaining that a MMO shouldn't encourage people to group up and everyone should just be completely silent with every update to be geared to solo players?

I'm not sure if the 'you' was general, but you seem to have missed the point that phasing makes the group quests nigh on impossible, not that people didn't want to group.

There are plenty of people grouping in Craglorn, that isn't the issue.

The issue is that there are plenty of us who want to complete the group quests, but are unable to find players at the same stage in the quest chain to do them with.

I know Zen have said phasing issues will be dealt with but until that happens there is a whole map with a story not being told and that saddens me.

Dyabolikal · August 2014

As far as I see it they should have just locked Craglorn until you completed cadwells gold. Its supposed to be end content, then why are you allowed to do it when your under V10 and haven't completed the other quest lines

k9mouse · August 2014

I do like grinding and farming, but at the same time I also like stories and quests. Craglorn has both, just need to find the right people to do quest with.

Cody · August 2014

The Correct term is "grindlorn"

Wifeaggro13 · August 2014

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

I do realize the reasoning behind them creating it. But there is no doubt that Craglorn(exploitlorn) is a complete joke. Sit there and watch zone chat and all you'll see is people trying to find grind groups (exploit groups) who are just trying to level and cannot be bothered to quest.

My v10 has been at that level for 3 weeks and it's impossible to find a group to quest with.

Just change it so things can be soloed already. Craglorn never should have been designed the way it is. Don't get me started on the ridiculousness of trials and what it's done to the nerf debate. Don't design a game saying "play how you want" and at the same time make it so you have to go skirt/stick if you want to compete with trial times.

What a ridiculous idea of what end-game should be.

its been brought to thier attention several times. you know what the respnse has been? "Yes we heard you, but did you hear about our new champion system that will be coming sooooooo2015nnnn" Dont count on this changing at all they are attached and invested in to this ridiculous system and does not look like they are gonna let go of it.

boogie95 · August 2014

dharbert wrote: »

boogie95 wrote: »

This is a MMO not a solo game if you want solo go play a none mmo game.

also some people enjoy grinding so why cant they grind if you dont like it dont grind as for groups you dont want a half ass pug group anyways you want a nice group using teamspeak joina guild and if you all need a good guild to join then send me your in game account name and i will have the officer of my very active guild invite anyone that wants to join with active pvp, grinding groups quest groups trails runs we have it all

Try that again, in English perhaps. Maybe throw a period or two in there.

dont like it dont read it maybe try to stop Snip

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Samadhi · August 2014

It will be interesting to see if the Craglorn issues are sorted out in time for the introduction of Murkmire (the next group adventure zone) and if players prefer to play in Murkmire or instead prefer to play in Wrothgar (the new single player zone).

coryevans_3b14_ESO · August 2014

boogie95 wrote: »

join a guild and quest with them finding groups is easy quest with your guild stop wineing and join a guild

KariTR wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

So you're complaining that a MMO shouldn't encourage people to group up and everyone should just be completely silent with every update to be geared to solo players?

I'm not sure if the 'you' was general, but you seem to have missed the point that phasing makes the group quests nigh on impossible, not that people didn't want to group.

There are plenty of people grouping in Craglorn, that isn't the issue.

The issue is that there are plenty of us who want to complete the group quests, but are unable to find players at the same stage in the quest chain to do them with.

I know Zen have said phasing issues will be dealt with but until that happens there is a whole map with a story not being told and that saddens me.

This kind of sums up what I was trying to say more eloquently. I play mmorpgs for the story and for the camaraderie. It's a bummer that it's so hard to do the group quests in CL.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Vahrokh · August 2014

Dyabolikal wrote: »

As far as I see it they should have just locked Craglorn until you completed cadwells gold. Its supposed to be end content, then why are you allowed to do it when your under V10 and haven't completed the other quest lines

This.

With a little tweak: once you have "unlocked" Cadwell's gold with one character, you can skip VR questing with your other characters if you want.

That would be a good compromise between making people actually do the provided content and not forcing them to redo it for 8 times.

rashkosh127ub17_ESO · August 2014

Casual players that want everything soloable are the death of all good MMO's. Fortunately for those that would much rather play with other people on a MULTIPLAYER game, I don't think the Devs will ever change adventure zones.

ZOS_MichelleA · August 2014

Hi there, all. We've removed or edited several posts in this thread for personal attacks and off topic political commentary. Please keep our Code of Conduct in mind when sharing your opinions, even when disagreeing. We do expect all conversations to be respectful and constructive. Thank you!

ninjaoliver43neb18_ESO · August 2014

So I jumped into Craglorn at vet 10, and did a few of the dungeons with some really good groups. Now vet 11, I tried to do the trials, but I always get kicked when they find out I don't have teamspeak and I'm not vet 12. Every trial group I find is always a grind or speed run. It seems that no-one in Craglorn is there for fun.

zScars · August 2014

i did 1 dungeon and

you guys ready

sure?

it was bugged.

then i stopped questing and hit v12 and went back to cyrodiil

TRIP233 · August 2014

I understand that people want to grind levels for PvP. So there does need to be changes to Craglorn and any new Adventure Zone that requires 4 people... They need to be instanced. This public stuff is braking the game. I want to quest there but it's impossible. The trials is all light armor and staffs. If you're a stamina build it's impossible to get on the leaderborads. The End Game content is broken.

Taresgos · August 2014

i came to craglorn first time this monday(was vr10) and on friday i had completed main story quest line and 2 of 3 questing dungeons(shada's tear and elihnir) and all of it i did only with people that i find in zone chat! eu server, aldmeri dominion.
though i would not say that group are easy to find(especially main quest because it's not sharing and you need ppl with the same stage), but it is certainly possible

theyancey · August 2014

ESO is a great game lvl 1-50. Love it! After that it becomes more of a forced group PvP grindy suckfest though.