Why did ZOS create Craglorn?

sagitter · August 2014

Let the ppl who like grind, grinding in peace. Everyone should have the option to level the way who want, more ways ,more options, more fun for all kind of players.

ThisOnePosts · August 2014

I'll describe why ZOS created Craglorn with two magical words: ADDITIONAL CONTENT

/endthread

Pangnirtung · August 2014

Unhappy people complain. That's why we have a Craglorn the way that it is now set up.

For all of those who loved questing and going through the stories to reach the highest levels we were quiet for the most part.

The ones who were unhappy were the ones whose goal was to get from the lowest levels to the highest levels the quickest. They made the most noise and now we have group runs and trials.

The tables have turned and those who took their time to enjoy the story, like me have run into a dead end. There is no choice but to play a broken PVP game or sit in Craglorn trying to hitch a ride onto a bot train to run dungeons.

ExiledKhallisi · August 2014

Lvl to 50... go to craglorn...

-gain vr1-vr12 in 2 days wearing outdated lvl 40 gear in grind raid
-Buy full legendary vr12 set with gold you made grinding
-join AA/Hel RA pug group & complete trials in 30min-2hrs (Doesnt even get in TS when asked by group)
-Nothing else to do so go PVP for no rewards until you are bored of the game

Craglorn makes the rest of the game just dumb. I have done this on 2 alts now.

Tapio75 · August 2014

Craglorn is nothing to me. It becomes viable playground for me when i just can go there and explore solo or with my own group.

TES is about playing how you want, by all means create group content but make it so that players can solo them as well.

Maybe encounters should scale for the number of players on the group.

Arthur_Spoonfondle · August 2014

Tapio75 wrote: »

Craglorn is nothing to me. It becomes viable playground for me when i just can go there and explore solo or with my own group.

TES is about playing how you want, by all means create group content but make it so that players can solo them as well.

Maybe encounters should scale for the number of players on the group.

What we need is for Zenimax to remember that they said they would introduce solo, as well as group, new content. So far players who like to solo and just do a little group stuff (group dungeons and world bosses for example) are being ignored/made to wait.

Anastasia · August 2014

Arthur_Spoonfondle wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

Craglorn is nothing to me. It becomes viable playground for me when i just can go there and explore solo or with my own group.

TES is about playing how you want, by all means create group content but make it so that players can solo them as well.

Maybe encounters should scale for the number of players on the group.

What we need is for Zenimax to remember that they said they would introduce solo, as well as group, new content. So far players who like to solo and just do a little group stuff (group dungeons and world bosses for example) are being ignored/made to wait.

REALLLLLLY???????? o-0

arkansas_ESO · August 2014

Really, it's just a matter of group questing in this game being absolute trash. Revamping the group questing system to where people can go back and help others with quests they've already done or vice versa, and you'd see a lot of your problems with Craglorn alleviated. Blaming the grinders or demanding the content be nerfed is not the answer.

Vahrokh · August 2014

Artemiisia wrote: »

ninjaoliver43neb18_ESO wrote: »

So I jumped into Craglorn at vet 10, and did a few of the dungeons with some really good groups. Now vet 11, I tried to do the trials, but I always get kicked when they find out I don't have teamspeak and I'm not vet 12. Every trial group I find is always a grind or speed run. It seems that no-one in Craglorn is there for fun.

well dont be in a rush, there is a reason trails are made for vr12, if you wanna accept vr11, well make a group yourself and see how far you get

We went quite far with our "particular" groups...

Vahrokh · August 2014

D2player87 wrote: »

The past month after update 3 has been an awesome month for me completing quests/dungeons/achievements with totally random group of strangers who are either a completionist like me or just want to clear one of the many available public dungeons in the zone. Dont have the quest? Ever heard of sharing quests with your party? You are one step behind me in the chain of quests? Oh lets all help this guy out and retract our step to guide him along.

Are you real? I wish I met players thinking like that. Actually if you play in EU I'd love to group with you and finally end my torture!

To me before and after update 3 it has been a pain.
ALL the tanks and healers entirely sgnatched up by XP grind groups ("everyone play how they like" is good on paper, but XP grind groups bloodsuck all the players so the result is we "others" can't find anybody to do 4 men with.

In 2 months I have painfully formed 6 groups. 6 groups waiting 6 hours a day.

- 1 group completed the Arena.
- 2 groups found out some members could simply not even enter doors now locked because they were a step ahead in the quest line. And no, nobody EVER accepted to help who was behind (typically, me), they just left.
- 3 groups never got 4 men, we tried to do stuff in 3 but then it costed a lot of wiping till people left, never completing a single quest.

Result: in 2 months 1 instance completed. GRATS ZoS, THIS IS YOUR GROUP CONTENT IN ACTION!

Artemiisia · August 2014

Vahrokh wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

ninjaoliver43neb18_ESO wrote: »

So I jumped into Craglorn at vet 10, and did a few of the dungeons with some really good groups. Now vet 11, I tried to do the trials, but I always get kicked when they find out I don't have teamspeak and I'm not vet 12. Every trial group I find is always a grind or speed run. It seems that no-one in Craglorn is there for fun.

well dont be in a rush, there is a reason trails are made for vr12, if you wanna accept vr11, well make a group yourself and see how far you get

We went quite far with our "particular" groups...

Nicely done, grats mate, just dont know why a vr6 needs to get loots he/she cant use before vr12 anyways.

But again, sweet run for sure

Soulshine · August 2014

Persephonius wrote: »

Dubah wrote: »

Here is my opinion. I hate the way ZOS designed some of these abilites, there is no reason why trials groups should be wanting to run with 8-10 sorcs... I'm already tired of seeing "Trials group LF 4 experienced sorc DPS"... This is not how it should be done. First things first they need to put a cap on damage reduced when you activate a damage reducing ability. This will cause people to actually perform the mechanics. Second they need to add a timer to the next time anyone in the area can activate a necrotic orb because at the moment that is how they are DPS'ing stuff down so fast. Really that will fix most of the problems right there...

Any game that is requiring 1 specific class and shunning all others because they don't have the same abilities, is broken. And this game is beyond broken but for some reason the dev's don't want to fix it.

At this time I am doing trials the correct way, no sorc DPS's or at least any of them spamming abilities or ignoring mechanics, and we are getting pretty successful, still have alot of work to do but we are taking our time and enjoying the trials. Anyone who wants to join us is more than welcome, must be VR8+ and be able to us TS3... If still interested contact someone in Great Architect, multiple ways of doing so, check out Defatank's stream @ twitch.tv/defatank or go to www.greatarchitect.us which will be moving soon. Good luck to those of you out there trying to get around the exploits, because we aren't interested. Just remember one day when the dev's finally wake up and realise what they are doing, the exploiters will have no idea what to do and the people who worked hard figuring it out are going to be on top, that is if that ever happens

Be careful, less @soulshine berates you too for independent thought

But yeah, it sounds like you are doing the trials to actually enjoy doing them, which is what I was trying to say before.

No one was berrating you. If you didn't see my point not much I can do.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · August 2014

Craglorn and the follow on hardcore content exists because ZOS' friends in Entropy Rising asked for it.

/thread

Persephonius · August 2014

Soulshine wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Dubah wrote: »

Here is my opinion. I hate the way ZOS designed some of these abilites, there is no reason why trials groups should be wanting to run with 8-10 sorcs... I'm already tired of seeing "Trials group LF 4 experienced sorc DPS"... This is not how it should be done. First things first they need to put a cap on damage reduced when you activate a damage reducing ability. This will cause people to actually perform the mechanics. Second they need to add a timer to the next time anyone in the area can activate a necrotic orb because at the moment that is how they are DPS'ing stuff down so fast. Really that will fix most of the problems right there...

Any game that is requiring 1 specific class and shunning all others because they don't have the same abilities, is broken. And this game is beyond broken but for some reason the dev's don't want to fix it.

At this time I am doing trials the correct way, no sorc DPS's or at least any of them spamming abilities or ignoring mechanics, and we are getting pretty successful, still have alot of work to do but we are taking our time and enjoying the trials. Anyone who wants to join us is more than welcome, must be VR8+ and be able to us TS3... If still interested contact someone in Great Architect, multiple ways of doing so, check out Defatank's stream @ twitch.tv/defatank or go to www.greatarchitect.us which will be moving soon. Good luck to those of you out there trying to get around the exploits, because we aren't interested. Just remember one day when the dev's finally wake up and realise what they are doing, the exploiters will have no idea what to do and the people who worked hard figuring it out are going to be on top, that is if that ever happens

Be careful, less @soulshine berates you too for independent thought

But yeah, it sounds like you are doing the trials to actually enjoy doing them, which is what I was trying to say before.

No one was berrating you. If you didn't see my point not much I can do.

I saw your point. It was along the lines that someone said something that did not concur with what you believe is the canonical opinion. This tends to happen when MMO players get together and form there group of cronies and believe that there concerns and view points are the only ones that are of any interest. It happens in every MMO, and I know it when I see it

*edit* Even if you are not one of the cronies, the effect is that many other players are duped into the elitist atmosphere emanating from them, and others fall inline. These groups become the Catholic Churches of MMO's, and I am not a church goer!

Srugzal · August 2014

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Craglorn and the follow on hardcore content exists because ZOS' friends in Entropy Rising asked for it.

/thread

Yup. In exchange for swallowing the API nerf and continuing PTS testing.

Persephonius · August 2014

Srugzal wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Craglorn and the follow on hardcore content exists because ZOS' friends in Entropy Rising asked for it.

/thread

Yup. In exchange for swallowing the API nerf and continuing PTS testing.

What is wrong with that anyway?

Erlindur · August 2014

Artemiisia wrote: »

ninjaoliver43neb18_ESO wrote: »

So I jumped into Craglorn at vet 10, and did a few of the dungeons with some really good groups. Now vet 11, I tried to do the trials, but I always get kicked when they find out I don't have teamspeak and I'm not vet 12. Every trial group I find is always a grind or speed run. It seems that no-one in Craglorn is there for fun.

well dont be in a rush, there is a reason trails are made for vr12, if you wanna accept vr11, well make a group yourself and see how far you get, and doing it without ts as well, that will make you go as far as first boss only.

So, you have a V11 that just completed Cadwell's gold, who found and allocated all the skill points along the way. On the other hand, you have a V12 that grinded his way from V1 by doing anomalies. Why the V12 is better in any way? What kind of criteria is that? I'm just curious.

Srugzal · August 2014

Persephonius wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Craglorn and the follow on hardcore content exists because ZOS' friends in Entropy Rising asked for it.

/thread

Yup. In exchange for swallowing the API nerf and continuing PTS testing.

What is wrong with that anyway?

It takes a little more historical perspective than would easily go into a post, and would involve quite a bit more naming and shaming than I think is wise, to answer your question, sorry. Others have speculated about these matters, too, so I'm not mouthing conspiracy theories here, either. I was there.

The short answer is "why, nothing, did I say there was?"

Persephonius · August 2014

Srugzal wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Craglorn and the follow on hardcore content exists because ZOS' friends in Entropy Rising asked for it.

/thread

Yup. In exchange for swallowing the API nerf and continuing PTS testing.

What is wrong with that anyway?

It takes a little more historical perspective than would easily go into a post, and would involve quite a bit more naming and shaming than I think is wise, to answer your question, sorry. Others have speculated about these matters, too, so I'm not mouthing conspiracy theories here, either. I was there.

The short answer is "why, nothing, did I say there was?"

Well, the basic underlying theme I took from what you said was that there was interaction between the developer group and the player base. So let me rephrase, to avoid the naming and shaming policy, why is developer-player interaction a bad thing?

Crowzer · August 2014

Don't worrry ! Craglorn part II is coming with the 1.4 patch !
Another 3 months to find groups...

Srugzal · August 2014

.

Persephonius · August 2014

Srugzal wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Craglorn and the follow on hardcore content exists because ZOS' friends in Entropy Rising asked for it.

/thread

Yup. In exchange for swallowing the API nerf and continuing PTS testing.

What is wrong with that anyway?

It takes a little more historical perspective than would easily go into a post, and would involve quite a bit more naming and shaming than I think is wise, to answer your question, sorry. Others have speculated about these matters, too, so I'm not mouthing conspiracy theories here, either. I was there.

The short answer is "why, nothing, did I say there was?"

Well, the basic underlying theme I took from what you said was that there was interaction between the developer group and the player base. So let me rephrase, to avoid the naming and shaming policy, why is developer-player interaction a bad thing?

Read my short answer again. I never said such a thing.

ROFL. Ok, be like that

*Edit* Well anyway. It is not easy to find a dedicated player base to test on the PTS. I know there are players out there that play MMO's like it is their full time profession, and then they go home and play MMO's some more. If entropy rising fit that bill, then so be it. Most others just don't have the time, or would want to spend those hours in the game and outside of the game dedicated to aspects of the game. It would not be too far removed from ZOS just hiring a group of dedicated testers. But in this case they won't be getting paid? Or at least as much?

Navuri · August 2014

Haven't been to Craglorn yet, but...is the OP saying that you can't hit max level (VR12) without doing all the group content?

Srugzal · August 2014

Persephonius wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Craglorn and the follow on hardcore content exists because ZOS' friends in Entropy Rising asked for it.

/thread

Yup. In exchange for swallowing the API nerf and continuing PTS testing.

What is wrong with that anyway?

It takes a little more historical perspective than would easily go into a post, and would involve quite a bit more naming and shaming than I think is wise, to answer your question, sorry. Others have speculated about these matters, too, so I'm not mouthing conspiracy theories here, either. I was there.

The short answer is "why, nothing, did I say there was?"

Well, the basic underlying theme I took from what you said was that there was interaction between the developer group and the player base. So let me rephrase, to avoid the naming and shaming policy, why is developer-player interaction a bad thing?

Read my short answer again. I never said such a thing.

ROFL. Ok, be like that

Laugh all you want to, the discussion is still not appropriate for these forums. Further I'm under no obligation to defend or refute words that you put in my mouth. Have a nice day!

Persephonius · August 2014

Srugzal wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Craglorn and the follow on hardcore content exists because ZOS' friends in Entropy Rising asked for it.

/thread

Yup. In exchange for swallowing the API nerf and continuing PTS testing.

What is wrong with that anyway?

It takes a little more historical perspective than would easily go into a post, and would involve quite a bit more naming and shaming than I think is wise, to answer your question, sorry. Others have speculated about these matters, too, so I'm not mouthing conspiracy theories here, either. I was there.

The short answer is "why, nothing, did I say there was?"

Well, the basic underlying theme I took from what you said was that there was interaction between the developer group and the player base. So let me rephrase, to avoid the naming and shaming policy, why is developer-player interaction a bad thing?

Read my short answer again. I never said such a thing.

ROFL. Ok, be like that

Laugh all you want to, the discussion is still not appropriate for these forums. Further I'm under no obligation to defend or refute words that you put in my mouth. Have a nice day!

Ok, I am missing something? I guess I am out of the loop.

TehMagnus · August 2014

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

siledre wrote: »

some people like questing, some like pvp, some like grinding, there's more than just you and I in this game, they are trying to find a happy place for everyone.

lol funny you said that. Cuz there isn't a happy place for me at all. I pvp a ton but guess what? I don't level there. Grinding should NEVER be a consideration when designing an MMORPG. EVER!

Lol, 90% of MMORPGS where wrongly designed then

Anastasia · August 2014

Persephonius wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Craglorn and the follow on hardcore content exists because ZOS' friends in Entropy Rising asked for it.

/thread

Yup. In exchange for swallowing the API nerf and continuing PTS testing.

What is wrong with that anyway?

It takes a little more historical perspective than would easily go into a post, and would involve quite a bit more naming and shaming than I think is wise, to answer your question, sorry. Others have speculated about these matters, too, so I'm not mouthing conspiracy theories here, either. I was there.

The short answer is "why, nothing, did I say there was?"

Well, the basic underlying theme I took from what you said was that there was interaction between the developer group and the player base. So let me rephrase, to avoid the naming and shaming policy, why is developer-player interaction a bad thing?

Read my short answer again. I never said such a thing.

ROFL. Ok, be like that

*Edit* Well anyway. It is not easy to find a dedicated player base to test on the PTS. I know there are players out there that play MMO's like it is their full time profession, and then they go home and play MMO's some more. If entropy rising fit that bill, then so be it. Most others just don't have the time, or would want to spend those hours in the game and outside of the game dedicated to aspects of the game. It would not be too far removed from ZOS just hiring a group of dedicated testers. But in this case they won't be getting paid? Or at least as much?

**Am betting if one could actually make/port over their character to PTS as other Triple A MMO's provide for, there would be a lot more interest in participation, *nods.

Elloa · August 2014

I do not understand why people are whining about Craglorn, seriously!
It is not a "normal" zone where to grind, or do quest alone. It's a zone to experiment exciting content and quest with a group of 4 and with the difficulty set up for a group of 4!

If you are SOLO, DO NOT GO to Craglorn!

Do we have players whining cause they can't solo Veteran Dungeons? It's exactly the same! Treat Craglorn the same way you would for a Dungeon!

Instead of whining that you can not solo Craglorn, whine that you have no content for solo gameplay. That would be more accurate, actualy. I'll add one thing, though... It's the same debate in every other MMO. End game content is limited for solo players and mostly focused on group content. That's how it is usually.

TehMagnus · August 2014

Artemiisia wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

ninjaoliver43neb18_ESO wrote: »

So I jumped into Craglorn at vet 10, and did a few of the dungeons with some really good groups. Now vet 11, I tried to do the trials, but I always get kicked when they find out I don't have teamspeak and I'm not vet 12. Every trial group I find is always a grind or speed run. It seems that no-one in Craglorn is there for fun.

well dont be in a rush, there is a reason trails are made for vr12, if you wanna accept vr11, well make a group yourself and see how far you get

We went quite far with our "particular" groups...

Nicely done, grats mate, just dont know why a vr6 needs to get loots he/she cant use before vr12 anyways.

But again, sweet run for sure

That's a guild run so it's normal to find VR6 and VR11 getting carried (plus they lost 32 lives so I guess it was very close).

A non VR12 can do AA, the problem is that he is most likely getting carried because most people don't craft their armor sets and enchant them properly before reaching VR12. Their DPS will never be as good as someone that is VR12 with at least epic gear and epic enchants.

As for the loot, I dunno how it is nowadays, but it used to be scaled to your level, so if you where VR10, you got a VR10 set piece <= which is also a complete waste.

Trials are not made for people that aren't VR12, if you have the proper gear at VR11 to do trials, then it's a waste of materials.

Persephonius · August 2014

Anastasia wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Craglorn and the follow on hardcore content exists because ZOS' friends in Entropy Rising asked for it.

/thread

Yup. In exchange for swallowing the API nerf and continuing PTS testing.

What is wrong with that anyway?

It takes a little more historical perspective than would easily go into a post, and would involve quite a bit more naming and shaming than I think is wise, to answer your question, sorry. Others have speculated about these matters, too, so I'm not mouthing conspiracy theories here, either. I was there.

The short answer is "why, nothing, did I say there was?"

Well, the basic underlying theme I took from what you said was that there was interaction between the developer group and the player base. So let me rephrase, to avoid the naming and shaming policy, why is developer-player interaction a bad thing?

Read my short answer again. I never said such a thing.

ROFL. Ok, be like that

*Edit* Well anyway. It is not easy to find a dedicated player base to test on the PTS. I know there are players out there that play MMO's like it is their full time profession, and then they go home and play MMO's some more. If entropy rising fit that bill, then so be it. Most others just don't have the time, or would want to spend those hours in the game and outside of the game dedicated to aspects of the game. It would not be too far removed from ZOS just hiring a group of dedicated testers. But in this case they won't be getting paid? Or at least as much?

**Am betting if one could actually make/port over their character to PTS as other Triple A MMO's provide for, there would be a lot more interest in participation, *nods.

My naïveté has been pointed out to me in private on several circumstances that I am completely oblivious to on the subject of this thread. If you have not already disregarded my comments in reference to the PTS and developer-player interactions, please do so, as I now see I am severely un-informed here.