Why did ZOS create Craglorn?

Soulshine

Persephonius wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Dubah wrote: »

Here is my opinion. I hate the way ZOS designed some of these abilites, there is no reason why trials groups should be wanting to run with 8-10 sorcs... I'm already tired of seeing "Trials group LF 4 experienced sorc DPS"... This is not how it should be done. First things first they need to put a cap on damage reduced when you activate a damage reducing ability. This will cause people to actually perform the mechanics. Second they need to add a timer to the next time anyone in the area can activate a necrotic orb because at the moment that is how they are DPS'ing stuff down so fast. Really that will fix most of the problems right there...

Any game that is requiring 1 specific class and shunning all others because they don't have the same abilities, is broken. And this game is beyond broken but for some reason the dev's don't want to fix it.

At this time I am doing trials the correct way, no sorc DPS's or at least any of them spamming abilities or ignoring mechanics, and we are getting pretty successful, still have alot of work to do but we are taking our time and enjoying the trials. Anyone who wants to join us is more than welcome, must be VR8+ and be able to us TS3... If still interested contact someone in Great Architect, multiple ways of doing so, check out Defatank's stream @ twitch.tv/defatank or go to www.greatarchitect.us which will be moving soon. Good luck to those of you out there trying to get around the exploits, because we aren't interested. Just remember one day when the dev's finally wake up and realise what they are doing, the exploiters will have no idea what to do and the people who worked hard figuring it out are going to be on top, that is if that ever happens

Be careful, less @soulshine berates you too for independent thought

But yeah, it sounds like you are doing the trials to actually enjoy doing them, which is what I was trying to say before.

No one was berrating you. If you didn't see my point not much I can do.

I saw your point. It was along the lines that someone said something that did not concur with what you believe is the canonical opinion. This tends to happen when MMO players get together and form there group of cronies and believe that there concerns and view points are the only ones that are of any interest. It happens in every MMO, and I know it when I see it

*edit* Even if you are not one of the cronies, the effect is that many other players are duped into the elitist atmosphere emanating from them, and others fall inline. These groups become the Catholic Churches of MMO's, and I am not a church goer!

Again - no. If you had seen what I was pointing you to, you would not jump to such conclusions. Suit yourself.

Persephonius

Soulshine wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Dubah wrote: »

Here is my opinion. I hate the way ZOS designed some of these abilites, there is no reason why trials groups should be wanting to run with 8-10 sorcs... I'm already tired of seeing "Trials group LF 4 experienced sorc DPS"... This is not how it should be done. First things first they need to put a cap on damage reduced when you activate a damage reducing ability. This will cause people to actually perform the mechanics. Second they need to add a timer to the next time anyone in the area can activate a necrotic orb because at the moment that is how they are DPS'ing stuff down so fast. Really that will fix most of the problems right there...

Any game that is requiring 1 specific class and shunning all others because they don't have the same abilities, is broken. And this game is beyond broken but for some reason the dev's don't want to fix it.

At this time I am doing trials the correct way, no sorc DPS's or at least any of them spamming abilities or ignoring mechanics, and we are getting pretty successful, still have alot of work to do but we are taking our time and enjoying the trials. Anyone who wants to join us is more than welcome, must be VR8+ and be able to us TS3... If still interested contact someone in Great Architect, multiple ways of doing so, check out Defatank's stream @ twitch.tv/defatank or go to www.greatarchitect.us which will be moving soon. Good luck to those of you out there trying to get around the exploits, because we aren't interested. Just remember one day when the dev's finally wake up and realise what they are doing, the exploiters will have no idea what to do and the people who worked hard figuring it out are going to be on top, that is if that ever happens

Be careful, less @soulshine berates you too for independent thought

But yeah, it sounds like you are doing the trials to actually enjoy doing them, which is what I was trying to say before.

No one was berrating you. If you didn't see my point not much I can do.

I saw your point. It was along the lines that someone said something that did not concur with what you believe is the canonical opinion. This tends to happen when MMO players get together and form there group of cronies and believe that there concerns and view points are the only ones that are of any interest. It happens in every MMO, and I know it when I see it

*edit* Even if you are not one of the cronies, the effect is that many other players are duped into the elitist atmosphere emanating from them, and others fall inline. These groups become the Catholic Churches of MMO's, and I am not a church goer!

Again - no. If you had seen what I was pointing you to, you would not jump to such conclusions. Suit yourself.

Ok, lets break this down.

You were referring me to a thread that was about clearing the leaderboard times, because a change that was implemented prevented players from skipping the first boss in AA. This would mean that the old times would now be unbeatable as you must now kill the first boss as well. There was also some mention that there was some trick to using necrotic orbs. My comments was about the general non-existence of a loot system in eso, trials or other-wise. I struggle to see the link. So basically, you pointed to me to a thread where you perceived was where the 'real' business is being discussed about trials. As if only the people discussing in this thread had the right to mention anything remotely related to the term trial. So basically you were calling me a heathen and pointing me to Church to be converted, to use my analogy again.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Persephonius wrote: »

Well, the basic underlying theme I took from what you said was that there was interaction between the developer group and the player base. So let me rephrase, to avoid the naming and shaming policy, why is developer-player interaction a bad thing?

It's a perfectly good thing .. when done properly and inclusively.

But when three content updates come out largely filled with very clique-based content (aka. hardcore dungeon dwellers) which is precisely the content the 'chosen few' in the guild who ZOS decided to get into bed with want to play, it's somewhat less than healthy.

Craglon, CoH, 'speedruns' etc. are what Entropy Rising and its ilk live for, the vast majority of players will never see that content: ESO like all other MMOs I expect follow the pattern WOW saw years ago, less than 15% of players ever see it let alone complete it.

Soulshine

Persephonius wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Dubah wrote: »

Here is my opinion. I hate the way ZOS designed some of these abilites, there is no reason why trials groups should be wanting to run with 8-10 sorcs... I'm already tired of seeing "Trials group LF 4 experienced sorc DPS"... This is not how it should be done. First things first they need to put a cap on damage reduced when you activate a damage reducing ability. This will cause people to actually perform the mechanics. Second they need to add a timer to the next time anyone in the area can activate a necrotic orb because at the moment that is how they are DPS'ing stuff down so fast. Really that will fix most of the problems right there...

Any game that is requiring 1 specific class and shunning all others because they don't have the same abilities, is broken. And this game is beyond broken but for some reason the dev's don't want to fix it.

At this time I am doing trials the correct way, no sorc DPS's or at least any of them spamming abilities or ignoring mechanics, and we are getting pretty successful, still have alot of work to do but we are taking our time and enjoying the trials. Anyone who wants to join us is more than welcome, must be VR8+ and be able to us TS3... If still interested contact someone in Great Architect, multiple ways of doing so, check out Defatank's stream @ twitch.tv/defatank or go to www.greatarchitect.us which will be moving soon. Good luck to those of you out there trying to get around the exploits, because we aren't interested. Just remember one day when the dev's finally wake up and realise what they are doing, the exploiters will have no idea what to do and the people who worked hard figuring it out are going to be on top, that is if that ever happens

Be careful, less @soulshine berates you too for independent thought

But yeah, it sounds like you are doing the trials to actually enjoy doing them, which is what I was trying to say before.

No one was berrating you. If you didn't see my point not much I can do.

I saw your point. It was along the lines that someone said something that did not concur with what you believe is the canonical opinion. This tends to happen when MMO players get together and form there group of cronies and believe that there concerns and view points are the only ones that are of any interest. It happens in every MMO, and I know it when I see it

*edit* Even if you are not one of the cronies, the effect is that many other players are duped into the elitist atmosphere emanating from them, and others fall inline. These groups become the Catholic Churches of MMO's, and I am not a church goer!

Again - no. If you had seen what I was pointing you to, you would not jump to such conclusions. Suit yourself.

Ok, lets break this down.

You were referring me to a thread that was about clearing the leaderboard times, because a change that was implemented prevented players from skipping the first boss in AA. This would mean that the old times would now be unbeatable as you must now kill the first boss as well. There was also some mention that there was some trick to using necrotic orbs. My comments was about the general non-existence of a loot system in eso, trials or other-wise. I struggle to see the link. So basically, you pointed to me to a thread where you perceived was where the 'real' business is being discussed about trials. As if only the people discussing in this thread had the right to mention anything remotely related to the term trial. So basically you were calling me a heathen and pointing me to Church to be converted, to use my analogy again.

Again for the thrid time - no. If you cant bother to read that is not my problem. Moving on.

Persephonius

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Well, the basic underlying theme I took from what you said was that there was interaction between the developer group and the player base. So let me rephrase, to avoid the naming and shaming policy, why is developer-player interaction a bad thing?

It's a perfectly good thing .. when done properly and inclusively.

But when three content updates come out largely filled with very clique-based content (aka. hardcore dungeon dwellers and phat lewt ***) which is precisely the content the 'chosen few' in the guild who ZOS decided to get into bed with, it's somewhat less than healthy.

Yeah, in reference to my previous post, (not the one about going to church ), I have been given a clearer picture, or a history lesson so to speak .

Persephonius

Soulshine wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Persephonius wrote: »

Dubah wrote: »

Here is my opinion. I hate the way ZOS designed some of these abilites, there is no reason why trials groups should be wanting to run with 8-10 sorcs... I'm already tired of seeing "Trials group LF 4 experienced sorc DPS"... This is not how it should be done. First things first they need to put a cap on damage reduced when you activate a damage reducing ability. This will cause people to actually perform the mechanics. Second they need to add a timer to the next time anyone in the area can activate a necrotic orb because at the moment that is how they are DPS'ing stuff down so fast. Really that will fix most of the problems right there...

Any game that is requiring 1 specific class and shunning all others because they don't have the same abilities, is broken. And this game is beyond broken but for some reason the dev's don't want to fix it.

At this time I am doing trials the correct way, no sorc DPS's or at least any of them spamming abilities or ignoring mechanics, and we are getting pretty successful, still have alot of work to do but we are taking our time and enjoying the trials. Anyone who wants to join us is more than welcome, must be VR8+ and be able to us TS3... If still interested contact someone in Great Architect, multiple ways of doing so, check out Defatank's stream @ twitch.tv/defatank or go to www.greatarchitect.us which will be moving soon. Good luck to those of you out there trying to get around the exploits, because we aren't interested. Just remember one day when the dev's finally wake up and realise what they are doing, the exploiters will have no idea what to do and the people who worked hard figuring it out are going to be on top, that is if that ever happens

Be careful, less @soulshine berates you too for independent thought

But yeah, it sounds like you are doing the trials to actually enjoy doing them, which is what I was trying to say before.

No one was berrating you. If you didn't see my point not much I can do.

I saw your point. It was along the lines that someone said something that did not concur with what you believe is the canonical opinion. This tends to happen when MMO players get together and form there group of cronies and believe that there concerns and view points are the only ones that are of any interest. It happens in every MMO, and I know it when I see it

*edit* Even if you are not one of the cronies, the effect is that many other players are duped into the elitist atmosphere emanating from them, and others fall inline. These groups become the Catholic Churches of MMO's, and I am not a church goer!

Again - no. If you had seen what I was pointing you to, you would not jump to such conclusions. Suit yourself.

Ok, lets break this down.

You were referring me to a thread that was about clearing the leaderboard times, because a change that was implemented prevented players from skipping the first boss in AA. This would mean that the old times would now be unbeatable as you must now kill the first boss as well. There was also some mention that there was some trick to using necrotic orbs. My comments was about the general non-existence of a loot system in eso, trials or other-wise. I struggle to see the link. So basically, you pointed to me to a thread where you perceived was where the 'real' business is being discussed about trials. As if only the people discussing in this thread had the right to mention anything remotely related to the term trial. So basically you were calling me a heathen and pointing me to Church to be converted, to use my analogy again.

Again for the thrid time - no. If you cant bother to read that is not my problem. Moving on.

Well, if I truly have misunderstood what you meant in your first reply to one of my comments, if you said something other than just, hey look here, we wouldn't need to move on.

FlyingPenguin

Personally would recommend a guild then. The guild I'm in has done quest runs through it and never had a problem. So finding a questing group is quite easy in a guild

Pangnirtung

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Craglorn and the follow on hardcore content exists because ZOS' friends in Entropy Rising asked for it.

/thread

This a million times over!

Mjollo

I, personally, love Craglorn and the way the group dungeons work. They feel like an in-between of a veteran dungeon and a public dungeon. You have one major boss at the end of each beautifully-created dungeon-scapes. Each one more breath-taking than the last one. Indoor waterfalls, bottomless pits, temples; you name it. I would have to agree with you though, OP that Craglorn is strictly meant for groups and while how frustrating it can be to find randoms, I've had luck doing the story line with guild-mates.

coryevans_3b14_ESO

Defialed wrote: »

I, personally, love Craglorn and the way the group dungeons work. They feel like an in-between of a veteran dungeon and a public dungeon. You have one major boss at the end of each beautifully-created dungeon-scapes. Each one more breath-taking than the last one. Indoor waterfalls, bottomless pits, temples; you name it. I would have to agree with you though, OP that Craglorn is strictly meant for groups and while how frustrating it can be to find randoms, I've had luck doing the story line with guild-mates.

I've heard from people that have done them that the quests and pub dungeons are a blast. Hopefully zos will fix the phasing issue soon so it's easier to find a group. It's tough even in my guild.

coryevans_3b14_ESO

Elloa wrote: »

I do not understand why people are whining about Craglorn, seriously!
It is not a "normal" zone where to grind, or do quest alone. It's a zone to experiment exciting content and quest with a group of 4 and with the difficulty set up for a group of 4!

If you are SOLO, DO NOT GO to Craglorn!

Do we have players whining cause they can't solo Veteran Dungeons? It's exactly the same! Treat Craglorn the same way you would for a Dungeon!

Instead of whining that you can not solo Craglorn, whine that you have no content for solo gameplay. That would be more accurate, actualy. I'll add one thing, though... It's the same debate in every other MMO. End game content is limited for solo players and mostly focused on group content. That's how it is usually.

Please read more before you post. It's the inability to find a group that's the problem. Not the content (necessarily).

Vahrokh

Elloa wrote: »

I do not understand why people are whining about Craglorn, seriously!
It is not a "normal" zone where to grind, or do quest alone. It's a zone to experiment exciting content and quest with a group of 4 and with the difficulty set up for a group of 4!

If you are SOLO, DO NOT GO to Craglorn!

Do we have players whining cause they can't solo Veteran Dungeons? It's exactly the same! Treat Craglorn the same way you would for a Dungeon!

You totally and utterly missed the point.

People would WANT to do 4 men content, too bad it does not happen. Most just grind and the others can't group because it's very rare to get 4 people all with the same quests and at the same exact quest point. Failing that, those not "aligned" in the quest line, just can't do anything as they slam in locked doors inside the instances so the group fails.


Edit: I am in a big guild, we do trials and all. And even so, we can't find four people who have the same progression in our quests. Just to say how bad the current system is.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand what does ZoS fanfare says? "HELLO, WE ARE BRINGING YOU MORE OF THE SAME!". Enjoy more months begging for 4 guys.

Digielf

has this been fixed?

NewBlacksmurf

Doflamingo wrote: »

has this been fixed?

Nothing was broken....what are you asking to be changed?

Digielf

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Doflamingo wrote: »

has this been fixed?

Nothing was broken....what are you asking to be changed?

can claghorn be done like the other areas or you must find group of other people and unable to progress

Alphashado

This thread is from over a year ago. There should be a cyber space dumpster that every thread gets tossed into after two months. It's easy to miss the initial start date of the thread when you see it on the main forum page again, but resurrecting ancient threads is often confusing because alot has changed since then.

Mods should lock this thread or make it sink to the depths of forum bone yards again. Let it RIP

Digielf

Alphashado wrote: »

This thread is from over a year ago. There should be a cyber space dumpster that every thread gets tossed into after two months. It's easy to miss the initial start date of the thread when you see it on the main forum page again, but resurrecting ancient threads is often confusing because alot has changed since then.

Mods should lock this thread or make it sink to the depths of forum bone yards again. Let it RIP

yes but can you say if it has been fixed or not? because if it hasnt been fixed then it still an issue i saw around 100 posts of people that cant complete the claglorn quests becuase of this

AngryNord

It's not a bug that people are too lazy to ask for two or three others to accompany them on a part of the quest.

JD2013

Does not need "fixing"

Group content in an MMO is to be expected.

If anything I hope for more group content. Bring on Murkmire!

NewBlacksmurf

Doflamingo wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

This thread is from over a year ago. There should be a cyber space dumpster that every thread gets tossed into after two months. It's easy to miss the initial start date of the thread when you see it on the main forum page again, but resurrecting ancient threads is often confusing because alot has changed since then.

Mods should lock this thread or make it sink to the depths of forum bone yards again. Let it RIP

yes but can you say if it has been fixed or not? because if it hasnt been fixed then it still an issue i saw around 100 posts of people that cant complete the claglorn quests becuase of this

Craglorn is a group zone where for many quests and encounters, you will need 4 players. There are quests that don't require 4 players as well but the use of the term "fixed" doesn't apply here as nothing is broken.

The design is group content and we've not seen or heard ZOS remark any changes to this design as of yet so to answer your question.

*The zone is not broken therefore, no fixes apply here. Its a group zone for most encounters and will not be changed in the near future.

Digielf

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Doflamingo wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

This thread is from over a year ago. There should be a cyber space dumpster that every thread gets tossed into after two months. It's easy to miss the initial start date of the thread when you see it on the main forum page again, but resurrecting ancient threads is often confusing because alot has changed since then.

Mods should lock this thread or make it sink to the depths of forum bone yards again. Let it RIP

yes but can you say if it has been fixed or not? because if it hasnt been fixed then it still an issue i saw around 100 posts of people that cant complete the claglorn quests becuase of this

Craglorn is a group zone where for many quests and encounters, you will need 4 players. There are quests that don't require 4 players as well but the use of the term "fixed" doesn't apply here as nothing is broken.

The design is group content and we've not seen or heard ZOS remark any changes to this design as of yet so to answer your question.

*The zone is not broken therefore, no fixes apply here. Its a group zone for most encounters and will not be changed in the near future.

ok but Orsinium is not like that right? it can be soloed just by you? i mean the quests

Ruben

Doflamingo wrote: »

yes but can you say if it has been fixed or not? because if it hasnt been fixed then it still an issue i saw around 100 posts of people that cant complete the claglorn quests becuase of this

They fixed the quest requirements a while ago. You can now do the quests even if the others are not at the same step as you are.

AngryNord

Doflamingo wrote: »

ok but Orsinium is not like that right? it can be soloed just by you? i mean the quests

The average player with 90-95 CP will struggle a lot. The l33t crowd with 3-400 CP and Min-Maxed builds will faceroll it.

Digielf

AngryNord wrote: »

Doflamingo wrote: »

ok but Orsinium is not like that right? it can be soloed just by you? i mean the quests

The average player with 90-95 CP will struggle a lot. The l33t crowd with 3-400 CP and Min-Maxed builds will faceroll it.

maybe if you could write that in english lol, i mean is orsinium like claglorn or like the other questing areas

Asherons_Call

I just hit V16 with my first character and I'm still on caldwells silver. I've went to craglorn a few times but haven't made it out of belkarth. Not understanding why some think that the only option is to grind. I did every quest, skyshard, dolmen, and delve in my alliance, IC, Cyrodiil, and am now into the fourth zone of caldwells when I hit 16.the trick is to take your time doing it. Kill every mob in your way. No shortcuts.

Lynnessa

I, too, was frustrated when I first got to Craglorn. I didn't realize that the whole zone was geared toward groups. I managed to solo Elinhir all the way up to the last boss before it sunk in that I couldn't do it alone. I ragelogged.

When I calmed down and resolved to be more patient, I took another crack at it.

A couple of weeks later, I was totally fine with Craglorn. Like someone else said, it's just one big public dungeon. Seems people have bad luck with grouping but I have found that there are plenty of folks doing quests and delves, most of whom are nice and many of whom will even let me listen to the quest dialog.

I like Craglorn, if it was solo-able it would be just like all the other zones. I've met some good players and friendly people just because Craglorn is the way it is. Sure, there are still a small handful of quests I have yet to complete (and other quests I have repeated more than I would prefer...) but it will happen eventually.

Really, I don't understand how a multiplayer game can be criticized for having multiplayer content.

nimander99

The dreaded necro thread, muhahahaha

efroh

For everyone in this thread and potentially reading this thread who is looking for a partner for Craglorn quests, please let me know (either here or in game, my contact ID is @Komboloi). I would love to do it from start to finish, all quests, everything. I'm a V16 magicka nightblade, DPS flame staff/healing resto staff.