Introducing the Polearm

Araflin · July 2014

Downside: Once you get past the business end of the polearm, it's useless.

The shorter and more manoeuvrable hand weapon wins in close / out of formation combat.

That would therefore imply you would have to have a minimum / maximum distance the polearm would be effective against. Great in formations.. rubbish without IF you get in it's range.

Aeratus · August 2014

Araflin wrote: »

Downside: Once you get past the business end of the polearm, it's useless.

The shorter and more manoeuvrable hand weapon wins in close / out of formation combat.

That would therefore imply you would have to have a minimum / maximum distance the polearm would be effective against. Great in formations.. rubbish without IF you get in it's range.

We'll if you're talking about realism, then the 2h axe and 2h mace in this game would be completely rubbish in actual combat. Same thing with dual wield.

Most 2h swords in this game are also probably rubbish because they are large and your character doesn't wield them realistically. Historically, the large 2h swords were wielded in a separated grip, with one hand on the grip, and the other hand below the parry hook. In this sense, zweihanders were used like polearms.

The actual 2h axes used in combat look nothing like those you see in fantasy games. The ones in fantasy games have no combat value at all.

If speaking of realism, a fighter with a polearm such as a naginata would beat someone who is armed with a fantasy-style 2h weapon or dual wield.

ShedsHisTail · August 2014

Ur-Quan wrote: »

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ShedsHisTail wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Historically, polearms were intended primarily for one of two uses, attacking mounted opponents or attacking from a mount.

Yeah, there were a few designs which were used for hand to hand combat (short spears, tridents, etc.), but most polearms were far to long and ungainly for anything other than unseating a mounted opponent, or charging an opponent whilst mounted.

Therefore, I say polearms would be wasted if we didn't also get mounted combat.

Evidently you are not familiar with the phalanx formation invented by the Greeks. It was used against more than mounted opponents.

And typically employed short spears. Which I mentioned.

Not under Philip and Alexander. Their form of phalanx used sarissas that were almost 20 feet long. That formation was used primarily against infantry, to hold them in place while the cavalry got in position to smash them.

As soon as we get the ability to form functional, interactive military formations so that becomes a valid tactic; let me know.

Kallipsoe · August 2014

Agree, this would be a good addition to the game.

Araflin · August 2014

...and then I rolled a 6.

But it's not realism is it. It's a game we play cos we like it... (or not, if you take some of the forum posts as true). Still, the effectiveness of long "reach" weapons has been modelled in games since Chivalry and sorcery and still appears in D&D (I believe it's about to hit ed 5!). It also must have a down side.

I pointed it out from my own pov. From my own re-enactment experience and from making items through experimental archaeology into the mediaeval "arms race". Swords can thrust, slash and bludgeon - that's why they work well. Picks and bodkins got through plate. Polearms made a line few horses got through alive - the impaled ones caused a mess though, and the next few probably got through...

We play this MMO, there are few small unit tactics, and no mounted combat. A front line of shields and short weapons with a rear of polearms over the top - I would love to see it work in Cyrodiil but I doubt it will.

If I saw a knight alone, with a glaive? Dodge and parry past the steel end and stick a bodkin through his eye slit or up his armpit.

GnatB · August 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

Polearms were also used in 1v1 fighting even in the west (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterstaff).

Unless you've tied a dagger to one of its ends, a quarterstaff isn't a polearm.

edit: fixed quote

ShedsHisTail · August 2014

GnatB wrote: »

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ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Polearms were also used in 1v1 fighting even in the west (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterstaff).

Unless you've tied a dagger to one of its ends, a quarterstaff isn't a polearm.

Gah, don't attribute that nonsense to me, I didn't write that.
I provide my own unique brand of nonsense.

Daethz · August 2014

I would love to see polearm added, only it would have the same issue other melee weapons currently have and be useless.

Stamina Weapons/Builds currently are absolutely no match for Magicka/Staff builds.

FunkheaD · August 2014

I love it... anything that promotes formation combat in mass PvP is truly epic!

GnatB · August 2014

You know, I was thinking about it some, and I'm not really all *that* sure why I'm against the idea. But If they did go in, then I'd argue:

1. They should do more damage than other weapons.
2. They (and all associated moves) should have some form of significant accuracy penalty against normal sized (or smaller) enemies. Whether that's an RPG like miss chance, or an action game "window to get out of the way". If the latter though, then you'd presumably need to do something to prevent the person with the polearm from being able to "follow" the dodger, like lock the attacker in place, or at least prevent him from turning.
3. Should be an automatic unhorse in PvP.

Sure, the whole angular momentum/length thing means it'll hit hard once you get it going, but on the same hand, it means it's harder to get going, harder to stop, and harder to change direction.

rekina · August 2014

7~10 meters attack range? What is this, Gullivers Online?

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO · August 2014

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thanks for the very detailed and thoughtful suggestion post, @Lynx7386! It was a great read. We can't make any promises about future content, but we will make sure the dev team sees this thread.

And Hand-to-Hand, Jessica!

Don't forget Hand-to-Hand.

/shamelessbeggingsubroutineactivated

Lynx7386 · August 2014

That would therefore imply you would have to have a minimum / maximum distance the polearm would be effective against. Great in formations.. rubbish without IF you get in it's range.

You would typically say the same thing about a ranged weapon like the bow - they're in no way effective when the enemy is in your face. Still, bows suffer no drawbacks in melee range in this game.

Sure, the whole angular momentum/length thing means it'll hit hard once you get it going, but on the same hand, it means it's harder to get going, harder to stop, and harder to change direction.

Realistically you'd have exactly the same issues using a two handed sword, mace, or battleaxe, yet we dont have those penalties applied to those weapons in this game.

Another common use of the polearm in history was to stick into an enemy's shield, causing the shield to be weighed down and useless to the opponent - he would be forced to drop his shield (the spear/javelin/polearm lodged in it) and proceed without that shield's protection, while the polearm wielder would typically swap to a shortsword or similar weapon at that point. So, does this mean we should give the polearm a huge bonus against targets with shields? No.

It's a game, some exceptions need to be made to keep things fun.

7~10 meters attack range? What is this, Gullivers Online?

Again, meters is simply going by what the game uses for distances. One handed weapons already attack at 5 meters, and two handed weapons at 7 meters. Do you really think swinging a greatsword with a 4~ foot blade on it is going to reach an enemy at 21 feet distance? The measurements arent accurate, I'm just going by what the game already uses.

5 meters in this game is more like 3-4 feet (1-1.5 meters).

Brizz · August 2014

Fantastic post and very well thought out. Very excited to see what comes of this.

jockjammerb16_ESO · August 2014

Agreed! As I once got as a bug in pool of radience on the C64 I want my Glaiveguisarmeranseurvolgespetum!

TehMagnus · August 2014

Why would you want an other stamina weapon to be added when they haven't even finished fixing those builds?

Kos · August 2014

I have two Polearms.

Sotha_Sil · August 2014

It usually more asian style weapon in MMOs and the skill ideas made me think of FFXIV ARR. As it has been said before, let's fix the current skills before implementing new ones

kieso · August 2014

meh; have pole-arms ever even been in any TES games?

Nox_Aeterna · August 2014

kieso wrote: »

meh; have pole-arms ever even been in any TES games?

Morrowind

semp3rfi · August 2014

Give me my spear!!! My magic spear shall not suffice.

Lynx7386 · August 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

Why would you want an other stamina weapon to be added when they haven't even finished fixing those builds?

because they're more likely to get a new weapon skill right this time around, knowing the complaints about the others =P

pitdemon_ESO · August 2014

kieso wrote: »

meh; have pole-arms ever even been in any TES games?

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Spear

My favorite weapon skill by far

Also, check these animations for the spear mod in Skyrim
(project is unfinished but the guy behind it rocks)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8IKUEwY-eg

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/1462112-spear-and-javelin-mod-wip/

Nox_Aeterna · August 2014

Lynx7386 wrote: »

show previous quotes

magnusnet wrote: »

Why would you want an other stamina weapon to be added when they haven't even finished fixing those builds?

because they're more likely to get a new weapon skill right this time around, knowing the complaints about the others =P

Too much good faith in zen , you have

.

Still , if we assume one day they will fix it , better have polearms so we can use them the day it happens.

Lynx7386 · August 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

show previous quotes

Lynx7386 wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Why would you want an other stamina weapon to be added when they haven't even finished fixing those builds?

because they're more likely to get a new weapon skill right this time around, knowing the complaints about the others =P

Too much good faith in zen , you have .

Still , if we assume one day they will fix it , better have polearms so we can use them the day it happens.

They may make slow changes but so far most of the changes have been good, cant exactly agree with aoe caps though.

Holtergeist · August 2014

This is one of the most well written posts I've read on here. You've convinced me--I want some polearm action now.

Raash · August 2014

yeah bring in the most generic weapon of all times, the Zzznoozearm! hope they will be really heavy and used as they did it the old fashion way if they ever is implemented. Its no action weapon like an handaxe (and no we need ESO to turn into any japanese anime style game with samurai/ninja weapons) , just a simple point and poke stuff with thing would do.

Tankqull · August 2014

Lynx7386 wrote: »

5. Parry
Cast: Instant
Range: N/A
Target Style: Self, Buff
For 15 seconds, reduces blocking cost by 50% and increases block mitigation by 50%. This incorporates the defensive nature of the polearm, a weapon which can practically be used to block and attack simultaneously due to it's length.
Morph 1: Counterattack
New Effect: Blocking a heavy attack while the ability is active marks the target for a counterattack for 5 seconds, increasing the damage of your next attack against that target.
Morph 2: Ward
New Effect: While the ability is active, you take reduced damage from all attacks.

chapeau! absolutly great ideas.
but none the less i´m a bit concerned about balance issues regarding your Parry idea.
i would change it to a toggle ability instead of an instand buff and add a dmg reduction while active to it -xx% reducable by lvling the skill [comparable to NBs siphoning strikes] and make the counterattack negate the dmg reduction vs that target for 5 sec(effecting every attack within that window).

Tamanous · August 2014

I've been pushing polearms since beta and this has some decent ideas. Only real issue is that this almost sounds like building a melee option for the zerg ball with too much dependence on being near other players and will make solo and small group players feel ignored.

StormbrookThunderb · August 2014

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/123068/new-weapons-types#latest.

I think it would work. It's not really a class specific weapon. But it should get huge buffs against horses. I also think lances would be a nice addition because then you could have horse warfare since everyone has horses for 1 g. (most people). Anyway you could also add horseback archery (for some races.) and lances as mentioned to balance that factor.