Introducing the Polearm

Uisi

Dekkameron wrote: »

Search function is fun!

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/119675/this-week-s-polearm-post#latest

... and very useful!

Saltypretzels

why 10 meter reach? You are saying that a spear/polearms can hit stuff 10 meters (30 feet away). That doesn't make sense.

Lynx7386

why 10 meter reach? You are saying that a spear/polearms can hit stuff 10 meters (30 feet away). That doesn't make sense.

the range on two handed weapons is 7 meters, and the range on 1h/shield or dual wield is 5 meters. Do you think a dagger can reach 15 feet away?

The distance measurements in this game arent really accurate, I'm just going off of what the game already uses.

Lynx7386

Besides, the whole point of the polearm is to outrange other melee weapons. Maybe we shouldnt call it "meters", since the game obviously botches that measurement, but a polearm should have extended reach over any 1h or 2h weapon currently in the game.

NorthernFury

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Historically, polearms were intended primarily for one of two uses, attacking mounted opponents or attacking from a mount.

Yeah, there were a few designs which were used for hand to hand combat (short spears, tridents, etc.), but most polearms were far to long and ungainly for anything other than unseating a mounted opponent, or charging an opponent whilst mounted.

Therefore, I say polearms would be wasted if we didn't also get mounted combat.

Pole weapons were used for hundreds of years in shield-wall formations. The guys with the big shields up front didn't do much of the killing; it was the dudes with the missile weapons, spears and glaives behind them.

Vizier

Spears would be a welcome addition. I would hope if they did so their would be appropriate animations for them and not simply a two handed sword cut and paste job.

Ser Lobo

To note, a threat range in reality also includes the ability of the person to close distance and threaten you with it. A knife, in reality, has a threat range of 20 ft, not including the improbability of someone throwing one. This is because a person with a knife can do a very quick sprint and close that distance within a second, which is a negligible amount of time.

I do think the distance system is all messed up, but most aren't aware just how much of a reach someone actually has when they have a weapon in their hand.

Daraugh

Aeratus wrote: »

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Lynx7386 wrote: »

Passive 2: Martial Prowess
Provides an effect based on the type of polearm you are using:
--While wielding a Spear, you gain the ability to equip a shield in your off hand. While doing so, your polearm abilities, light attacks, and heavy attacks deal 40/20% less damage. This is to appease those crowds that want to wield a spear and shield.
--While wielding a Longhammer, your polearm abilities bypass 15/30% of the target's armor rating. This follows the armor-crushing nature of hammer weapons.
--While wielding a Poleaxe/Halberd, the bleed effect of gore and reap deal 10/20% additional damage, and the additional damage against already bleeding targets is increased by 10/20%.

Perfect!

I think an Akaviri-motif polearm should look like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naginata

Would this be considered a spear or halberd?

That's closer to a glaive, a halberd has a more axe like blade at the top.

Incidentally, the naginata was a preferred weapon for onna-bugeisha. (Mistakenly called simply female samurai, they were warriors long before the samurai was a warrior class.) More info on these women warriors here

Back on topic, I'd love to see polearms included. A Khajiit warrior monk would be awesome.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Thanks for the very detailed and thoughtful suggestion post, @Lynx7386! It was a great read. We can't make any promises about future content, but we will make sure the dev team sees this thread.

Maverick827

You ask why developers always leave out polearms, but you've already answered your own question: they're simple (read: boring) weapons used by common soldiers. Our characters are heroes.

Tremulous

I like your idea , but in all reality a new weapon like a spear would most likely be added into existing weapon trees such as dual wield, one hand and shield, & two handed.

Maverick827 wrote: »

You ask why developers always leave out polearms, but you've already answered your own question: they're simple (read: boring) weapons used by common soldiers. Our characters are heroes.

^ never played dynasty warriors.

Nox_Aeterna

Maverick827 wrote: »

You ask why developers always leave out polearms, but you've already answered your own question: they're simple (read: boring) weapons used by common soldiers. Our characters are heroes.

To you , to me they are simple but great and efficient weapons.

I do hope the devs add them.

NorthernFury

Maverick827 wrote: »

You ask why developers always leave out polearms, but you've already answered your own question: they're simple (read: boring) weapons used by common soldiers. Our characters are heroes.

Tell that to Leonidas of Sparta, and his Phalanx.

eventide03b14a_ESO

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Historically, polearms were intended primarily for one of two uses, attacking mounted opponents or attacking from a mount.

Yeah, there were a few designs which were used for hand to hand combat (short spears, tridents, etc.), but most polearms were far to long and ungainly for anything other than unseating a mounted opponent, or charging an opponent whilst mounted.

Therefore, I say polearms would be wasted if we didn't also get mounted combat.

Evidently you are not familiar with the phalanx formation invented by the Greeks. It was used against more than mounted opponents.

Maverick827

Tremulous wrote: »

I like your idea , but in all reality a new weapon like a spear would most likely be added into existing weapon trees such as dual wield, one hand and shield, & two handed.

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Maverick827 wrote: »

You ask why developers always leave out polearms, but you've already answered your own question: they're simple (read: boring) weapons used by common soldiers. Our characters are heroes.

^ never played dynasty warriors.

No I haven't, like most Western gamers.

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

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Maverick827 wrote: »

You ask why developers always leave out polearms, but you've already answered your own question: they're simple (read: boring) weapons used by common soldiers. Our characters are heroes.

To you , to me they are simple but great and efficient weapons.

I do hope the devs add them.

I don't care whether or not that add them. My post wasn't an indictment on polearms. I personally believe most western fantasy fans do not care about polearms, which makes the time and effort into creating them a risk. Thus, they're rarely offered as options.

Tremulous

Maverick827 wrote: »

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Tremulous wrote: »

I like your idea , but in all reality a new weapon like a spear would most likely be added into existing weapon trees such as dual wield, one hand and shield, & two handed.

Maverick827 wrote: »

You ask why developers always leave out polearms, but you've already answered your own question: they're simple (read: boring) weapons used by common soldiers. Our characters are heroes.

^ never played dynasty warriors.

No I haven't, like most Western gamers.

show previous quotes

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

You ask why developers always leave out polearms, but you've already answered your own question: they're simple (read: boring) weapons used by common soldiers. Our characters are heroes.

To you , to me they are simple but great and efficient weapons.

I do hope the devs add them.

I don't care whether or not that add them. My post wasn't an indictment on polearms. I personally believe most western fantasy fans do not care about polearms, which makes the time and effort into creating them a risk. Thus, they're rarely offered as options.

Diablo III has Spears, WoW has spears, Dragon Age has spears (kinda) , Game of Thrones has spears....

eventide03b14a_ESO

Tremulous wrote: »

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Maverick827 wrote: »

Tremulous wrote: »

I like your idea , but in all reality a new weapon like a spear would most likely be added into existing weapon trees such as dual wield, one hand and shield, & two handed.

Maverick827 wrote: »

You ask why developers always leave out polearms, but you've already answered your own question: they're simple (read: boring) weapons used by common soldiers. Our characters are heroes.

^ never played dynasty warriors.

No I haven't, like most Western gamers.

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

You ask why developers always leave out polearms, but you've already answered your own question: they're simple (read: boring) weapons used by common soldiers. Our characters are heroes.

To you , to me they are simple but great and efficient weapons.

I do hope the devs add them.

I don't care whether or not that add them. My post wasn't an indictment on polearms. I personally believe most western fantasy fans do not care about polearms, which makes the time and effort into creating them a risk. Thus, they're rarely offered as options.

Diablo III has Spears, WoW has spears, Dragon Age has spears (kinda) , Game of Thrones has spears....

D&D has spears, so does, EQ, EQ2, NWN, NWN2... Actually it's just easier to list the one's that don't....

GnatB

NorthernFury wrote: »

Tell that to Leonidas of Sparta, and his Phalanx.

Speaking of, it's also important to note just how heavily armored Leonidas and his phalanx tended to be. There goes the argument against bikini armor and tanks requiring heavy plate.

(Note: And I'm not just being snarky about the movie, there were, in fact, long periods of history when the military (yes even spartans) eschewed body armor, as mobility was more useful than whatever protection the body armor provided.)

NorthernFury

GnatB wrote: »

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NorthernFury wrote: »

Tell that to Leonidas of Sparta, and his Phalanx.

Speaking of, it's also important to note just how heavily armored Leonidas and his phalanx tended to be. There goes the argument against bikini armor and tanks requiring heavy plate.

(Note: And I'm not just being snarky about the movie, there were, in fact, long periods of history when the military (yes even spartans) eschewed body armor, as mobility was more useful than whatever protection the body armor provided.)

I've read also that armor becoming heavier was more due to metallurgy advances and the weight vs strength ratio and skill of blacksmiths to make custom pieces was the main limiting factor.

When you're working with bronze and iron, it has to be too thick and heavy to fight in all day to be effective. With alloys and steel it can be thinner and light enough to fight in.

Ser Lobo

GnatB wrote: »

(Note: And I'm not just being snarky about the movie, there were, in fact, long periods of history when the military (yes even spartans) eschewed body armor, as mobility was more useful than whatever protection the body armor provided.)

Sometimes weapons got stronger and better, and made armor next to useless (longbows, as example). Sometimes terrain made formation fighting and large shields problematic (woods of eastern Germany). And sometimes ambush and skirmishes was the superior tactic (Vietnam).

There are many times in history where armor was much more of a hinderance than relying on mobility and superior firepower. We're currently in one of those times. But this could easily change if the DARPA gear gets strong enough to support one-man tanks like what Halo and Modern Warfare: Future Combat are hinting at.

Maverick827

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

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Tremulous wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

Tremulous wrote: »

I like your idea , but in all reality a new weapon like a spear would most likely be added into existing weapon trees such as dual wield, one hand and shield, & two handed.

Maverick827 wrote: »

You ask why developers always leave out polearms, but you've already answered your own question: they're simple (read: boring) weapons used by common soldiers. Our characters are heroes.

^ never played dynasty warriors.

No I haven't, like most Western gamers.

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

You ask why developers always leave out polearms, but you've already answered your own question: they're simple (read: boring) weapons used by common soldiers. Our characters are heroes.

To you , to me they are simple but great and efficient weapons.

I do hope the devs add them.

I don't care whether or not that add them. My post wasn't an indictment on polearms. I personally believe most western fantasy fans do not care about polearms, which makes the time and effort into creating them a risk. Thus, they're rarely offered as options.

Diablo III has Spears, WoW has spears, Dragon Age has spears (kinda) , Game of Thrones has spears....

D&D has spears, so does, EQ, EQ2, NWN, NWN2... Actually it's just easier to list the one's that don't....

WoW's spears (polearms) are stat sticks for Hunters. You don't actually use them in combat. At least you didn't when I played.

The only thing close to spears in Dragon Age are staves in Dragon Age 2. Again, you never actually use them in melee combat.

Regardless, this isn't even a point I was asserting. That is an argument the OP makes:

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Zenimax, we're tired of modern game developers having no idea what polearms are. They've been conveniently left out of just about every modern MMO or RPG for no apparent reason

I supplied the apparent reason. So are you here to argue against the OP? I would think not based on your snarky replies, and yet the contents of your posts directly argue against the OP's main point.

ShedsHisTail

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Historically, polearms were intended primarily for one of two uses, attacking mounted opponents or attacking from a mount.

Yeah, there were a few designs which were used for hand to hand combat (short spears, tridents, etc.), but most polearms were far to long and ungainly for anything other than unseating a mounted opponent, or charging an opponent whilst mounted.

Therefore, I say polearms would be wasted if we didn't also get mounted combat.

Evidently you are not familiar with the phalanx formation invented by the Greeks. It was used against more than mounted opponents.

And typically employed short spears. Which I mentioned.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

shaman spears were my thing in EQ. I'd even take up two-handed weapons if I could have a big ol spear.

But it's not top on my list.

Lynx7386

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thanks for the very detailed and thoughtful suggestion post, @Lynx7386! It was a great read. We can't make any promises about future content, but we will make sure the dev team sees this thread.

Thanks for taking a look Jessica, hopefully the idea is implemented soon

Sedrethi

It saddens me to observe those NPCs at Skywatch's Fighters Guild in Auridon sparring with their spears (proper animations and all) so merrily. Meanwhile, I can only brandish my Altmeri-style staff, which is the closest I can get to having a spear, while pretending to skewer my enemies with it using my Nightblade's Impale ability (which doesn't align properly with a staff). Yeah...

Aeratus

Maverick827 wrote: »

You ask why developers always leave out polearms, but you've already answered your own question: they're simple (read: boring) weapons used by common soldiers. Our characters are heroes.

Polearms are the least boring weapons to me. Whenever the game allows you to use polearms, that's what I tend use first.

Theosis

edited for content

Holy long post though

UrQuan

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

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eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Historically, polearms were intended primarily for one of two uses, attacking mounted opponents or attacking from a mount.

Yeah, there were a few designs which were used for hand to hand combat (short spears, tridents, etc.), but most polearms were far to long and ungainly for anything other than unseating a mounted opponent, or charging an opponent whilst mounted.

Therefore, I say polearms would be wasted if we didn't also get mounted combat.

Evidently you are not familiar with the phalanx formation invented by the Greeks. It was used against more than mounted opponents.

And typically employed short spears. Which I mentioned.

Not under Philip and Alexander. Their form of phalanx used sarissas that were almost 20 feet long. That formation was used primarily against infantry, to hold them in place while the cavalry got in position to smash them.

dodgehopper_ESO

Make it so!

I'd Love to see both (SHIELD & SPEAR) as well as Halberd Skill lines. I ran morrowind recently just for nostalgia and to remember a few things, and one thing I noticed was the sheer variety of weapon types available in that game.

Aeratus

Ur-Quan wrote: »

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ShedsHisTail wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Historically, polearms were intended primarily for one of two uses, attacking mounted opponents or attacking from a mount.

Yeah, there were a few designs which were used for hand to hand combat (short spears, tridents, etc.), but most polearms were far to long and ungainly for anything other than unseating a mounted opponent, or charging an opponent whilst mounted.

Therefore, I say polearms would be wasted if we didn't also get mounted combat.

Evidently you are not familiar with the phalanx formation invented by the Greeks. It was used against more than mounted opponents.

And typically employed short spears. Which I mentioned.

Not under Philip and Alexander. Their form of phalanx used sarissas that were almost 20 feet long. That formation was used primarily against infantry, to hold them in place while the cavalry got in position to smash them.

That's right. Both the Greek Hoplite phalanx (shorter spears and large shield), and the Macedonian Sarissa phalanx (long spears and small shield) were primary intended to fight against infantry.

The notion that spears were used primary against cavalry is a myth resulting from modern computer games such as Age of Empires that employed a rock-paper-scissor counter mechanic. No doubt that spears were good against cavalry, but the spear fought against infantry much more often than against cavalry.

Polearms were also used in 1v1 fighting even in the west (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterstaff).