Suggestion - Inspect Player

AllPlayAndNoWork · July 2014

This is the last thing we should have. There are already folk out there who know instantly if you are a vamp/werewolf and how long you last fed or ate/drank provisioning items and base their whole game around such knowledge........ I think its outright cheating personally. So giving someone and even bigger edge by giving them what you are wearing.......... F that.

KitLightning · July 2014

TequilaFire wrote: »

I don't need anyone to know I am not wearing underwear!

If your saddle is covered in plastic its considered a rare armor with a +100 bonus, though you'll get a -10% chance of mounting and 50% chance to slip off at any time...

dharbert · July 2014

The least they could do is make everyone's rank show up next to their name when you type something into the chat box.

As far as elitism goes, if you can't get into a grind group in Craglorn because some elitist jackwagon won't let you in, simply form a new group.

Nox_Aeterna · July 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Quite a few people are opposed to this, they say it makes it easier for elitists to reject people for groups based on their gear.

Pretty much this.

Now mind you , i would not be against this myself , but good luck trying to convince people heh, their point is valid , this would allow it , then again , on the other side we can argue about how fair is that a poor equipped player costs gold and time to the others because he cant keep up and thus the party dies.

In the end , there is one universal rule , you want to do dungeons often and so on , get to know people and form a good group you can run with , dont do pugs , you can never trust pugs.

siledre · July 2014

my equipment is none of your business but if they did add an inspect feature, I want them to be able to inspect me from a long way away because I really hate when someone runs up and stands in my face to see what I'm wearing.

emeraldbay · July 2014

mike_150b16_ESO wrote: »

Idgi, why all the "just ask what they're using". How would it be detrimental to have them inspect gear, as opposed to listing out what you're wearing for every curious passerby. Do people have scarring memories of being told to get better gear? Memories that haunt them in their sleep?

And how is it detrimental to simply ask for someone to link their gear? Do you have scarring memories of linked items being lower quality than you imagined, so you had to tell those n00bs to get better gear? Memories that haunt you in your sleep?

Wolfshead · July 2014

Honest OP what is point of that just so you judge other player for that is basically what ask for so i guess you want this feature so you look at other gear when you make group so you pick and choose which player that can join your group i hope you do know that is not gear the you play good the just help you out it is person behind screen that is decide how good char is.

This idea is so WoW like idea and i see that when people ask for group in zone and will add this "and you need to show me your gear before join us" no this is BS idea.

MMO/MMORPG is not about have best gear it is about make new friends and have great time when you are playing gear and loot is just bonus nothing else.

KariTR · July 2014

You know in real life (yeah, I'm going there) when you admire an item of clothing someone is wearing? do you stealth around behind them and without them noticing, turn their collar back so you can see the label? or do you say "I like your shirt/dress, where did you get it from?"

KhajitFurTrader · July 2014

Liquid_Time wrote: »

I don't care if they add this or not, but if you don't want the function and are getting angry by simply the idea of it.. then please think of some better reasons other then "elitism".

I'd like to have and retain control about who can get my character's information. An anonymous inspection feature would violate my privacy.

You're welcome.

Surragard · July 2014

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Surragard wrote: »

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

But there's absolutely no call that the game's mechanics enables and encourages their destructive behavior even more, isn't there?

Btw: see a cool armor piece on someone? Ask them about it! They will feel flattered, even more so than just from being ogled by someone unknowingly.

Having a game chat feature enables gold spammers to spam the zone. Should we get rid of game chat? I realize that's a big jump but I'm just trying to make the point you shouldn't knock a feature because a small group of people might abuse it.

Then you haven't gotten the point yet, as a gear inspection feature wouldn't only be abused by a small group; it's abusable by design and it will impact the player base as a whole.

Speaking of apples and oranges, gold spammers might be a small group abusing a commonly used game feature, but they're also highly "illegal", i.e. they're violating the TOS and whatnot with their activity and commit a bannable offense. People inspecting other people and then rejecting them on superficial criteria hardly would be doing anything in that same magnitude, wouldn't they?

I just don't think that it's enabling anything. If I'm an elitist player and don't want someone in my group who has crap gear then I'm going to throw them out of the group regardless of whether or not I have an inspect option. If the inspect option let's them do that more quickly than its good for both sides since the end result was going to be the same anyway. If people want to be elitist they will be. I also still think it will be a small group that abuses it, since in my play experience elitist players that fit this mold are a minority.

nerevarine1138 · July 2014

Surragard wrote: »

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Surragard wrote: »

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

But there's absolutely no call that the game's mechanics enables and encourages their destructive behavior even more, isn't there?

Btw: see a cool armor piece on someone? Ask them about it! They will feel flattered, even more so than just from being ogled by someone unknowingly.

Having a game chat feature enables gold spammers to spam the zone. Should we get rid of game chat? I realize that's a big jump but I'm just trying to make the point you shouldn't knock a feature because a small group of people might abuse it.

Then you haven't gotten the point yet, as a gear inspection feature wouldn't only be abused by a small group; it's abusable by design and it will impact the player base as a whole.

Speaking of apples and oranges, gold spammers might be a small group abusing a commonly used game feature, but they're also highly "illegal", i.e. they're violating the TOS and whatnot with their activity and commit a bannable offense. People inspecting other people and then rejecting them on superficial criteria hardly would be doing anything in that same magnitude, wouldn't they?

I just don't think that it's enabling anything. If I'm an elitist player and don't want someone in my group who has crap gear then I'm going to throw them out of the group regardless of whether or not I have an inspect option. If the inspect option let's them do that more quickly than its good for both sides since the end result was going to be the same anyway. If people want to be elitist they will be. I also still think it will be a small group that abuses it, since in my play experience elitist players that fit this mold are a minority.

They're a minority until an inspection feature becomes available.

To cite the big kid on the block as an example: WoW didn't have achievements or gearscore for quite some time. So when raid groups were started, raid leaders would never ask for those things; they simply asked that you know the fights and have appropriate gear. And yet, miraculously, raiding got done.

Fast-forward to today, and every single raid invitation demands a minimum gearscore and an achievement link. That's not what I (and many others) want ESO to turn in to.

AlexDougherty · July 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Surragard wrote: »

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Surragard wrote: »

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

But there's absolutely no call that the game's mechanics enables and encourages their destructive behavior even more, isn't there?

Btw: see a cool armor piece on someone? Ask them about it! They will feel flattered, even more so than just from being ogled by someone unknowingly.

Having a game chat feature enables gold spammers to spam the zone. Should we get rid of game chat? I realize that's a big jump but I'm just trying to make the point you shouldn't knock a feature because a small group of people might abuse it.

Then you haven't gotten the point yet, as a gear inspection feature wouldn't only be abused by a small group; it's abusable by design and it will impact the player base as a whole.

Speaking of apples and oranges, gold spammers might be a small group abusing a commonly used game feature, but they're also highly "illegal", i.e. they're violating the TOS and whatnot with their activity and commit a bannable offense. People inspecting other people and then rejecting them on superficial criteria hardly would be doing anything in that same magnitude, wouldn't they?

I just don't think that it's enabling anything. If I'm an elitist player and don't want someone in my group who has crap gear then I'm going to throw them out of the group regardless of whether or not I have an inspect option. If the inspect option let's them do that more quickly than its good for both sides since the end result was going to be the same anyway. If people want to be elitist they will be. I also still think it will be a small group that abuses it, since in my play experience elitist players that fit this mold are a minority.

They're a minority until an inspection features becomes available.

^This^

It happened in SWTOR too, once you could see what others were wearing half the LFG requests on the stations were "Must have BLAH BLAH gear Minimum"

Animus0724 · July 2014

This will only encourage elitism

Milktray · July 2014

No to this

It's been in other games and while 'some' players look and help if they have better .. most look and see what advantages they have, how you are not on their 'level' etc

And in PVP I can't see it working well

I'd prefer the more social aspect of someone 'asking' what armour, weapons I have and what skills i'm using .. Not just doing 'Inspect' and checking.

If they ever add that I want a setting so that the 'Inspect' is made optional, if you don't want others able to do that then tough, they can just ask like normal people.

Rune_Relic · July 2014

+1 The only reason you are looking in the 1st place is to compare.
Which means better or worse.

Those who are looking to see if the gear is worse than expected is probably elitist trying to sort the wheat from the chaff in their eyes.

Those who are looking to see if the gear is better than expetected is the clones. Which I consider even worse. Its bad enough the standard gear looks identical with my clone brothers running around as it is. Absolutely no way I want to encourage that anymore. I want to see everyone in completely unique gear with completely unique stats to compliment all the unique people out there

So that's a NO from me too.

Phantax · July 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

To cite the big kid on the block as an example: WoW didn't have achievements or gearscore for quite some time. So when raid groups were started, raid leaders would never ask for those things; they simply asked that you know the fights and have appropriate gear. And yet, miraculously, raiding got done.

Ahh... the good old days. People standing on the steps in Dalaran spamming chat with "Link your gear"
For all the things I think WoW got very right, this wasn't one of them. FFS Zenimax don't ever go down this road !

Arthur_Spoonfondle · July 2014

Jordon987 wrote: »

Kos wrote: »

If you think it's ok to do a gear check why don't you go in public and start checking random people. There needs to be some privacy.

Did you read my Original post?

"The player can decide whether they would like to share their armour and weapons by enabling it within the settings menu."

That would simply result in those players being frequently excluded from groups. If you think that would not happen you have a very rose-tinted view of MMO communities.

Catman14 · July 2014

I could agree to this only if I had an option to smack the inspecting player around the head.

Inspecting my armour indeed. How rude!

Kos · July 2014

I'm not wearing a diaper

diamondeyethunderbow_ESO · July 2014

Jordon987 wrote: »

Hello fellow players,

My suggesting is when you want to interact with a player you bring up a menu which has all the options (Add friend, Report player etc.)

Why not add another option "Inspect player" This would allow you to view what armour and weapons they have equipped, The player can decide whether they would like to share their armour and weapons by enabling it within the settings menu.

I think this would make the game a teeny tiny bit more interesting and also allow us to view their armour.

Many thanks,

Jordon

No. It's none of your business what armor someone else has on. If you want to know, ask them.

As for the question of "elitism", it isn't simply a matter of someone getting rejected from a group. It's that people get it into their heads that content is supposed to be facerolled, and start demanding gear well in excess of what's really needed to do the content. That then starts becoming a community standard, and the entire difficulty curve ends up jacked up.

There's also the problem that usually the people wondering if your gear is "good enough" are just bad at the game, and want only party members with good gear to carry them. If you need to inspect someone else's gear before grouping with them, you're most likely just a bad.

Tabbycat · July 2014

I believe it was Aion that had the ability to check other peoples gear but also the ability to automatically ignore such requests. If we had an auto-ignore inspection requests, I would be fine with inspect gear being added to the game.

Bazzakrak · July 2014

I would say no to this as well.

I would like to see a MMO that tries to stand out from the others, and just not close their features.
If the players are the mature segment of the population, then they should be mature enough to ask if they want to see what others are wearing.

In other MMOs I have/am playing, being able to inspect others, have led to, what some call elitism, I see it in TSW and Lotro where certain equipment quality is required to join in things, even when it is not needed to do it.
And it is not more than 4 days ago, I saw in /zone here that someone required others to have legendary quality and could link a certain achievement to join in a group for a dungeon, so it is already in the game.

Anastasia · July 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

emeraldbay wrote: »

Nope.

Not unless we have an option to turn it off. But even then, you get people saying things like "only n00bs don't show their gear" and whatnot. It's just a bad idea altogether.

If you want to know what someone's using so badly, just ask them. Really, it's not hard.

This is the core of the problem.

If anyone can inspect you, then you get people demanding that you have such&such gear.

If you can enable/disable it, then you get the same idiots demanding that you enable it so they can inspect your gear.

In short it's only of benefit for the elitists, who don't need it.

And yes I have a problem with Elitist snobs, I have no problem with people being better than me, but rejecting me without even seeing if I can play, stuff that.

Having this implemented, having a toggle for on or off -- is NOT the point of origin for reasoning behind 'elitism'. If a group leader needs to know where you fit in for his group, you very well will likely need to supply him/her with that information, whether he can inspect you or not, anyhow! Additionally, because of mods available and all sorts of other information, your potential effectiveness can fairly easily be deduced shortly even if they allow you to 'try it' a couple of times. Hopefully they will be polite and/or give you information or tell you how to find the information you need in order to gain effectiveness. However, this "inspect" feature is NOT currently in game and what you describe occurs, but not for the reasoning you are blaming it on.

The need for requirements to be met for grouping in endgame content is/ was/ continues to be set by the developers of TESO. They are to whom you should send your suggestions and orient your negative statements toward. THEY declare that certain builds are most effective by what they have done with the stats and mechanics in this mmo.

I'm sorry there are some players who are [snip] in the way I've seen described here when it comes to getting into grouping. However, its not surprising, given that many are now arriving to endgame without the experience, knowledge or gear needed to be effective in groups there since...Vet+ 1- 10 nerf.

Whether there will ever be an 'inspect' option implemented also has justification for other reasons, ie those who see some cool armor and just would like to know what it is so they can obtain it - but get no response in tell/or say from people who are playing without a chat box or etc. It also has RP-considerations as well.

It is not elitism to have an understood bar set with general minimum stat requirements that give a group forming up a 'best' chance at succeeding in certain content.

That is how this games' developers want it to be.

And no one is forcing you to group. Every individual player has the choice to 'choose' to just play solo since there is SO much solo content in this game now with more to come, or to step their game up and make an effort to be reasonably prepared to be an effective group member if seeking access to said groups. If someone is an *** - give it back to them, or find other like-minded people to form your own group with.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Artemiisia · July 2014

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

There are 3 reasons why inspecting people could be implemented :

- 1°) For looks : what is this look ? where is it from ?
- 2°) For gear check : does he have purple gear ? green ?
- 3°) Curiosity : this guy is using this set and this weapon. Why ? it seems interesting. Why shouldn't I use it ?

All 3 reasons are valid.

To the people saying they might get discriminated because they use this and that. I say : well - that might only happen for difficult instances (raids...) and in pugs groups so. I would suggest you find a guild where other people think like you do and everything will be fine.

well all these 3 options can all be worked out with one simple thing, its so easy its hurts:

Ask the person wearing it.

but then again, im not oppose this addition, if it can prevent wiping in crypts of hearts with a fresh green vr12 that has grinded all the way to vr12 and haven't learned his/hers role

and yeah, some people are against it, those are the once that have something to hide and is trying to get a free ride in a hard instance like trails.

but then again, I dont care in the end if its there or not

AlexDougherty · July 2014

Anastasia wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

emeraldbay wrote: »

Nope.

Not unless we have an option to turn it off. But even then, you get people saying things like "only n00bs don't show their gear" and whatnot. It's just a bad idea altogether.

If you want to know what someone's using so badly, just ask them. Really, it's not hard.

This is the core of the problem.

If anyone can inspect you, then you get people demanding that you have such&such gear.

If you can enable/disable it, then you get the same idiots demanding that you enable it so they can inspect your gear.

In short it's only of benefit for the elitists, who don't need it.

And yes I have a problem with Elitist snobs, I have no problem with people being better than me, but rejecting me without even seeing if I can play, stuff that.

Having this implemented, having a toggle for on or off -- is NOT the point of origin for reasoning behind 'elitism'. If a group leader needs to know where you fit in for his group, you very well will likely need to supply him/her with that information, whether he can inspect you or not, anyhow! Additionally, because of mods available and all sorts of other information, your potential effectiveness can fairly easily be deduced shortly even if they allow you to 'try it' a couple of times. Hopefully they will be polite and/or give you information or tell you how to find the information you need in order to gain effectiveness. However, this "inspect" feature is NOT currently in game and what you describe occurs, but not for the reasoning you are blaming it on.

I know it's not in this game, but it was in the last game I played, and those scenarios I described literally took place.

People were demanding you had this gear or better, and they were demanding you allowed them to inspect what you had.

As for being kicked for being bad, that did happen a few times, but only when I was totally out of my depth. I'm not the best player ever, but I'm not the worst either.

Artemiisia · July 2014

it is the group/raid leader responsibility to assure that its possible to complete and not wipe every time, so he/she of course will need to be able to demand some sort of level of gear to make sure everybody pulls their weight, and that the other 11 guys in the raid dont wipe because one is there to get the end game loot way to fast.

I have seen this going on in Age of Conan, where some people try to go tier 3-4 with tier 1 gear and they never make past first boss due to lack of dps/armor

Thats why pugs never make it, and right now many here only do AA first boss

AlexDougherty · July 2014

Artemiisia wrote: »

it is the group/raid leader responsibility to assure that its possible to complete and not wipe every time, so he/she of course will need to be able to demand some sort of level of gear to make sure everybody pulls their weight, and that the other 11 guys in the raid dont wipe because one is there to get the end game loot way to fast.

I have seen this going on in Age of Conan, where some people try to go tier 3-4 with tier 1 gear and they never make past first boss due to lack of dps/armor

Thats why pugs never make it, and right now many here only do AA first boss

Yes, and is that was how it was used in my last MMO I wouldn't have reservations.

In my last MMO they were demanding gear that you had to do the quest for. Seriously the gear only dropped on hard mode missions, and they were demanding you had a full set for those missions. Basically if you could group with them you had no reason to group with them, you already had the rewards.

Which is why I'm very suspicious of it now.

nerevarine1138 · July 2014

Artemiisia wrote: »

it is the group/raid leader responsibility to assure that its possible to complete and not wipe every time, so he/she of course will need to be able to demand some sort of level of gear to make sure everybody pulls their weight, and that the other 11 guys in the raid dont wipe because one is there to get the end game loot way to fast.

I have seen this going on in Age of Conan, where some people try to go tier 3-4 with tier 1 gear and they never make past first boss due to lack of dps/armor

Thats why pugs never make it, and right now many here only do AA first boss

This isn't a game where gear impacts performance that significantly. Unfortunately, most players are used to gear being the only thing that determines performance, instead of, you know, skill. Gear inspection just encourages that mindset.

BodeanG · July 2014

Liquid_Time wrote: »

You do understand that if there is a group that is going to require "gear checks" in order to join said group...they are still going to check your gear despite this function being added or not. Simply by asking you to link your items in chat and send it to them. Nuf said.

Actually, I'd rather they ask.

You see they made the choice to ask because they desire a particular group make-up. I'm fine with that. By asking me I then get to choose whether I want to comply and group with them, or say "never mind, good luck y'all".

Also, to the OP who stated earlier, "no where in my post did I say anything about gear score", you didn't have to. This game allows addons. The moment Inspect is added an addon will be created for this very purpose and then the Catch 22 fun begins.

No to Inspect, thanks.

cracker81 · July 2014

I wish they would. I been dungeons and you can see some ppl will say I am a healer but they don't have restro staff or you get dps that truly have no enchants/whit gear in vet rank dungeons. Then ppl want to Nerf said dungeons because they are to hard. They are hard because dps is only pulling 200dps as a v6. You can suggest to play what they will need to increase their damage.