ZOS should really play their own game.

JackDaniell · July 2014

If ZOS actually played their own game they wouldn't make bad changes to it. Quite simply, the devs who OK these changes have no understanding about this game. To many things are changed and updated when they shouldn't be, and to many times devs give in to a VERY vocal forum minority that is just as clueless.

For example:

If you think that the change to the willows path set from 1.3.0 to 1.3.1 is a good change then you are among these people.
If you think DK's are OP you are among these people.
If you think Nightblades cannot compete in PvP (while not stealth ganking) you are among these people.
If you think Templar's don't have strong SUSTAINED damage you are among these people.
If you think impulse trains are the strongest zerg tactic you are among these people.
And finally, if you think that blazing shield will be a Templar's best skill come 1.3, you are among these people.

But alas, this is the bane of almost all MMO's. Perhaps ZOS should hire a team of EXPERIENCED players who really know the game to OK these kind of changes, or prevent them from happening.

elwhy · July 2014

I don't know about your examples, but I completely agree that there is no way they play this game anymore. Besides maybe logging in, moving, saying "Yup, everything works," and pushing an update.

Kiljaz · July 2014

How could they play their game? Most of their day would be spent relogging in after Wabba rollbacks and mac client crashes.

Daethz · July 2014

Agreed.
How can you tell they dont play their own game?
Destruction staff completely outpaces all other weapons in dps.

And no dev has even replied to anyone stating this on the forum, devs seem to think its a joke or something, when in reality its one of the largest game breaking issues in this game. Looking for something to blame the bad subscription numbers on? Destruction staffs fault.

Gilvoth · July 2014

JackDaniell wrote: »

If ZOS actually played their own game they wouldn't make bad changes to it. Quite simply, the devs who OK these changes have no understanding about this game. To many things are changed and updated when they shouldn't be, and to many times devs give in to a VERY vocal forum minority that is just as clueless.

For example:

If you think that the change to the willows path set from 1.3.0 to 1.3.1 is a good change then you are among these people.
If you think DK's are OP you are among these people.
If you think Nightblades cannot compete in PvP (while not stealth ganking) you are among these people.
If you think Templar's don't have strong SUSTAINED damage you are among these people.
If you think impulse trains are the strongest zerg tactic you are among these people.
And finally, if you think that blazing shield will be a Templar's best skill come 1.3, you are among these people.

But alas, this is the bane of almost all MMO's. Perhaps ZOS should hire a team of EXPERIENCED players who really know the game to OK these kind of changes, or prevent them from happening.

i disagree with everthing you said, nightblades cannot compete in pvp wether stealthed or UNstealthed, the stealth is broken and nightblades simply cannot do as much damage as not only the dragonights but also all the other classes.
dragonights are over powered.
and i do see it as an insult that you are calling me vocal. and i will quote what you said
" VERY vocal forum minority that is just as clueless. "

im not clueless and im not vocal and not a minority.
i havent made a comment here on ther forums is almost a week. i put in a customer service request and made a comment on the forums stating my beliefs and that was all i did.
the developers told us to do that when we have an opinion. they call it "feed back"
why are we called " VERY vocal forum minority that is just as clueless. " if we simply state an opinion and make a request?
im rather insulted by your comment please dont insult

Ilterendi · July 2014

The focus on destro staff is unfair...to restostaff dps.

I don't believe DK's are op, but I do believe they have the best class synergy in their skill sets. Followed by Sorcerers.

JackDaniell · July 2014

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

If ZOS actually played their own game they wouldn't make bad changes to it. Quite simply, the devs who OK these changes have no understanding about this game. To many things are changed and updated when they shouldn't be, and to many times devs give in to a VERY vocal forum minority that is just as clueless.

For example:

If you think that the change to the willows path set from 1.3.0 to 1.3.1 is a good change then you are among these people.
If you think DK's are OP you are among these people.
If you think Nightblades cannot compete in PvP (while not stealth ganking) you are among these people.
If you think Templar's don't have strong SUSTAINED damage you are among these people.
If you think impulse trains are the strongest zerg tactic you are among these people.
And finally, if you think that blazing shield will be a Templar's best skill come 1.3, you are among these people.

But alas, this is the bane of almost all MMO's. Perhaps ZOS should hire a team of EXPERIENCED players who really know the game to OK these kind of changes, or prevent them from happening.

i disagree with everthing you said, nightblades cannot compete in pvp wether stealthed or UNstealthed, the stealth is broken and nightblades simply cannot do as much damage as not only the dragonights but also all the other classes.
dragonights are over powered.
and i do see it as an insult that you are calling me vocal. and i will quote what you said
" VERY vocal forum minority that is just as clueless. "

im not clueless and im not vocal and not a minority.
i havent made a comment here on ther forums is almost a week. i put in a customer service request and made a comment on the forums stating my beliefs and that was all i did.
the developers told us to do that when we have an opinion. they call it "feed back"
why are we called " VERY vocal forum minority that is just as clueless. " if we simply state an opinion and make a request?
im rather insulted by your comment and feel it should be looked at by a forum modderator.

If you do not consider yourself part of the aforementioned group you should not feel offended.

indytims_ESO · July 2014

Thank goodness it only took me about 15 seconds to read the OP and realize the person who wrote it doesn't really know much about this game.

But if you need help cancelling your account, just ask.

TheBucket · July 2014

Actually... When it comes to PvP the OP was spot on with everything he said. Except i do think they play their own game so i disagree with that.

This is coming from Full Med/DW NB

TheBull · July 2014

Another DK swearing they are not OP... nothing to see here.

When the *** is the Dragon's Blood nerf coming???

Kiljaz · July 2014

Funny thing is, rank 4 igneous shield is just as good as dragonblood. 950 pnt anytime shield.

Sharee · July 2014

JackDaniell wrote: »

VERY vocal forum minority

...

If you think DK's are OP you are among these people.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/109562/which-class-is-the-most-overpowered/p1

Forum minority, hmm?

Kego · July 2014

I

JackDaniell wrote: »

If you think Nightblades cannot compete in PvP (while not stealth ganking) you are among these people.

Melee + Bow Nightblades COULD compete in PvP, if there Skills would at least work, as they should.

Haste is still completly broken with Bows
Rapid Strike Haste is broken
Blood Craze Dot, Crippling Grasp, Argony and Volley DoT breaks our own cloak
Shadow Cloak is still broken
Mark Target is useless as long as the Target sees the debuff for itself
Summon Shade totally useless as long as they do 0 DMG
Inner Light as Hard coutner to all Melee Nightblades. That Skill should get a true downside, not that stupid -5% Magicka. I want to see there a Debuff that Mage Light user receive 20% more DMG as long as it's active.

JLB · July 2014

JackDaniell wrote: »

If ZOS actually played their own game they wouldn't make bad changes to it. Quite simply, the devs who OK these changes have no understanding about this game. To many things are changed and updated when they shouldn't be, and to many times devs give in to a VERY vocal forum minority that is just as clueless.

For example:

If you think that the change to the willows path set from 1.3.0 to 1.3.1 is a good change then you are among these people.
If you think DK's are OP you are among these people.
If you think Nightblades cannot compete in PvP (while not stealth ganking) you are among these people.
If you think Templar's don't have strong SUSTAINED damage you are among these people.
If you think impulse trains are the strongest zerg tactic you are among these people.
And finally, if you think that blazing shield will be a Templar's best skill come 1.3, you are among these people.

But alas, this is the bane of almost all MMO's. Perhaps ZOS should hire a team of EXPERIENCED players who really know the game to OK these kind of changes, or prevent them from happening.

What tools did you use to collect the necessary data to know if an opinion belongs to the "clueless minority" or the "acquainted majority"?

And I'm guessing by "hiring a team of experienced players" you mean ZOS hiring someone who thinks like you

Sorry, but thinking ZOS doesn't have already a professional team of testers with the right tools to be more objective than any of us (forum posters), is quite naive.

Kiljaz · July 2014

They obviously aren't professional... more bugs in this game after 5 months than most mmo at release.

Sharee · July 2014

Kiljaz wrote: »

They obviously aren't professional... more bugs in this game after 5 months than most mmo at release.

I have been there at WoW release. I respectfully disagree with your assessment.

Kego · July 2014

Lol yeah. WoW was such a pain over two years. To be true, at nearly every class 2/3 of there Talenttree was totally useless and itemisation forced you even more to do, what Blizzard want you to do.

Feral Druid? Broken
Balance Driud? Broken
Fire Mage? Useless
Arkane Mage? Broken

And so on. The first really good running WoW Version has been the Burning Crusade Release.

hamon · July 2014

JackDaniell wrote: »

If ZOS actually played their own game they wouldn't make bad changes to it. Quite simply, the devs who OK these changes have no understanding about this game. To many things are changed and updated when they shouldn't be, and to many times devs give in to a VERY vocal forum minority that is just as clueless.

For example:

If you think that the change to the willows path set from 1.3.0 to 1.3.1 is a good change then you are among these people.
If you think DK's are OP you are among these people.
If you think Nightblades cannot compete in PvP (while not stealth ganking) you are among these people.
If you think Templar's don't have strong SUSTAINED damage you are among these people.
If you think impulse trains are the strongest zerg tactic you are among these people.
And finally, if you think that blazing shield will be a Templar's best skill come 1.3, you are among these people.

But alas, this is the bane of almost all MMO's. Perhaps ZOS should hire a team of EXPERIENCED players who really know the game to OK these kind of changes, or prevent them from happening.

so basically you know everything and to dissagree with you is to clearly not play the game? i dissagree with lots of what you say here and other places about templars. but ive played the game as long as anyone ..

but i would not be one of these people who have the arrogance to assume i'm always right

Dominoid · July 2014

*if you think you have more information than the millions of ACTUAL data points received hourly, tabulated, collated and laid out in logical graphs and charts, then you . . .

Kego · July 2014

If they have all that data mining, than there remains the Question:

- Why is Stamina / Magicka mix builds since month way behind pure Magicka builds?
- Why is Restoration Stave the best DPS Weapon since months?

LonePirate · July 2014

TheBull wrote: »

Another DK swearing they are not OP... nothing to see here.

What ranged skill does a DK have? What burst DPS skill does a DK have? What effective crowd control skill does a DK have?

DKs have none of these. Talons is not effective CC because everyone and their pet mudcrab can escape them with ease. Even the mighty DK Standard Ultimate skill is not so mighty given how you can easily roll dodge out of it. That skill is only effective IF another player is nearby AND activates the Shackle synergy - and that happens far fewer times than I would like.

Dragon Blood might be the best DK skill but if you have a healer around, even that skill is underpowered because it is seldom needed.

I wish DKs were as OP as so many people seem to think they are. They may have advantages in PVE; but they are possibly the weakest class in PVP.

TheBucket · July 2014

Kego wrote: »

I

JackDaniell wrote: »

If you think Nightblades cannot compete in PvP (while not stealth ganking) you are among these people.

Melee + Bow Nightblades COULD compete in PvP, if there Skills would at least work, as they should.
Haste is still completly broken with Bows

Rapid Strike Haste is broken

Blood Craze Dot, Crippling Grasp, Argony and Volley DoT breaks our own cloak

Shadow Cloak is still broken

Mark Target is useless as long as the Target sees the debuff for itself

Summon Shade totally useless as long as they do 0 DMG

Inner Light as Hard coutner to all Melee Nightblades. That Skill should get a true downside, not that stupid -5% Magicka. I want to see there a Debuff that Mage Light user receive 20% more DMG as long as it's active.

Few things coming from a NB expert.

Blood Craze does not break stealth.

My Shadows hit for 35-40 a piece. Not sure where no dps comes from. Its similar to a slow bleed. Its also not useless.

JLB · July 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

Dragon Blood might be the best DK skill

And it's going to be even better with the new regen softcaps.
The secondary effect of the skill (+40% Health & +30% Stamina Recovery that lasts 20 seconds) that you can effectively keep up all the time, is going to be one of the best self-buffs (if not the best) in the game.

whsprwind · July 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Another DK swearing they are not OP... nothing to see here.

What ranged skill does a DK have? What burst DPS skill does a DK have? What effective crowd control skill does a DK have?

DKs have none of these. Talons is not effective CC because everyone and their pet mudcrab can escape them with ease. Even the mighty DK Standard Ultimate skill is not so mighty given how you can easily roll dodge out of it. That skill is only effective IF another player is nearby AND activates the Shackle synergy - and that happens far fewer times than I would like.

Dragon Blood might be the best DK skill but if you have a healer around, even that skill is underpowered because it is seldom needed.

I wish DKs were as OP as so many people seem to think they are. They may have advantages in PVE; but they are possibly the weakest class in PVP.

You failed to mention DK's real overpowered skill - reflective scales.
That's what allows DK's to tank zergs for hours, not GDB

DKs are not underpowered, but i've seen good players of all classes that can show that DKs are not overpowered either.

We get great survivability but we trade escape and burst damage for it. Fair

Coming from a DK PvPer

demonlkojipub19_ESO · July 2014

Kego wrote: »

Lol yeah. WoW was such a pain over two years. To be true, at nearly every class 2/3 of there Talenttree was totally useless and itemisation forced you even more to do, what Blizzard want you to do.

Feral Druid? Broken
Balance Driud? Broken
Fire Mage? Useless
Arkane Mage? Broken

And so on. The first really good running WoW Version has been the Burning Crusade Release.

Besides ret paladins being totally whack, i miss bc. But class balance wasnt goid then either. See ret paladin heh.

Prot paladin had limited use as well, and had to use secial spell power tank gear yo ne effective.

Turelus · July 2014

JackDaniell wrote: »

If ZOS actually played their own game they wouldn't make bad changes to it.

They do play their own game, try watching one of the two podcasts from the last two weeks and see them talking about how they play.
They would probably still make bad changes, it happens in all MMO games. Also just because you personally don't like a change doesn't mean it's a bad one.

JackDaniell wrote: »

Quite simply, the devs who OK these changes have no understanding about this game. To many things are changed and updated when they shouldn't be, and to many times devs give in to a VERY vocal forum minority that is just as clueless.

I'm pretty sure they have more information and understanding of the changes than you do. Not everything people scream about on the forums happens, as an example there are still now global auction houses (the new stands are not what was asked for).

JackDaniell wrote: »

If you think that the change to the willows path set from 1.3.0 to 1.3.1 is a good change then you are among these people.

Changes in gear and skills happen in MMO games, if they're making a change they probably feel it's in the games best interest in the long run. Additionally all changes made to armours and skills are currently handled by one Developer who is actively playing the game when not at work, you can see him on a podcast talking about it.

JackDaniell wrote: »

But alas, this is the bane of almost all MMO's. Perhaps ZOS should hire a team of EXPERIENCED players who really know the game to OK these kind of changes, or prevent them from happening.

What happens if the players they hire are ones who disagree with your view on how the gameplay, classes and skills should be then change it in a direction you don't like?
There are positions open for people to apply to via ZOS website and if there are experienced and knowledged players they can freely apply. However just because someone plays the game doesn't mean they're going to make changes that are always positive for you

Daethz · July 2014

They should actually get time at work to play if you ask me.
Someone who makes somthing should know the quality of their own product, if you make food you should taste your own food occasionally, if you make a videogame you should play your own videogame, if you develop endgame content, you should PLAY endgame content yourself.

Sapphy24 · July 2014

I wish the devs would play this game with 8 characters and with all the crafts being done and have the bank shuffle each and every day. I'm sure they would see that this is horrific and takes away a lot of the enjoyment of the game.
But wishes are only dreams that will never come true. $:\$

Daethz · July 2014

Sapphy24 wrote: »

I wish the devs would play this game with 8 characters and with all the crafts being done and have the bank shuffle each and every day. I'm sure they would see that this is horrific and takes away a lot of the enjoyment of the game.
But wishes are only dreams that will never come true. $:\$

I dont even have that issue but shared banks was a bad idea.
Shared crafting materials bank with extreme amounts of space? Great idea.
Shared bank for all items in the game including potential offspec armor sets, pets and various trinkets? Terrible idea.

I know this is taboo, but take a look at WoW WoD's banking systems.
-Of which they likely copied from GW2, and translated it into three systems, a Trinket tab, a Heirloom tab and a Crafting tab, all separate and specialized.

DontBeAfraid · July 2014

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

nightblades cannot compete in pvp wether stealthed or UNstealthed

im not clueless and im not vocal and not a minority.

those 2 quotes.
sorry to say, but you have NO idea about nightblades.
learn to build them correctly and u have a class that can outdmg EVERYTHING BY DOUBLE NUMBERS.
and yes i mean single target dps, aoe cast dps. even with sword and board a NB who knows how to build and spec outdmges ANY SORC / DK / TEMPLAR.

just a simple example.
my dk with good manapool and 109 spelldmg does 221 dmg per batswarm tick.
a good nb with less mana but more spell dmg, resto staff and some cool passive combinations does 390 dmg per batswarm tick.

those NBs crit for 1500 dmg with impale synergies while i crit for 500.

SO WHAT? NB TOO WEAK? learn to play - seriously.

Sharee · July 2014

DontBeAfraid wrote: »

just a simple example.
my dk with good manapool and 109 spelldmg does 221 dmg per batswarm tick.
a good nb with less mana but more spell dmg, resto staff and some cool passive combinations does 390 dmg per batswarm tick.

Any class will do more batswarm tick if it has more spell dmg. This has nothing to do with nightblades.

those NBs crit for 1500 dmg with impale synergies while i crit for 500.

To do high damage with impale, the target first needs to be at 25% health. Both DK and templar have instant heals to keep themselves above that, and a sorc at low health can just bolt away and heal up.

Additionally, anyone with full impenetrable suit is pretty much immune to crits (-70, -80% chance to be crit).