AreoHotah wrote: »

All this fuss, virtual war and anger for a wolf pet!! A WOLF PET!?!?!? I probably don't understand all of this because ESO is my 1st MMO and i'm not really an elitist. But still imo the 2014 gamer is exagerating.

"When did people become complacent. When did we stop fighting for simple things like respect. Those in this thread that have called each other names, that have bullied, or wanted to do nothing. What would it take for you to stand up for yourself? Does it have to reach a point where the subscription fee is doubled? or would you even be ok with that. Not just what would it take for you to quit the game but what would it take for you to love the game enough to actually fight to make it better and be treated fairly? Do not act like you deserve nothing. This issue may not be important to you, but how long will it be before another issues comes up that is?"
What do you want, a game that does not improve where you are treated with disrespect? Or do you want to show that something matters to you as a player so that maybe ZOS takes notice and does something about it? Better yet which player do you think ZOS appreciates more? The players that stand by simply using them to play their game and enjoy it without contributing to make it better through discussion while also criticizing anyone who does? Or the player that stands up for themselves and shows ZOS what they want and what is important to them so that they can make a better game, and in turn make more money off of not just current Subs but future new players in a way that is far more efficient then dangling a shiny toy in front of newcomers? Think before you type, if you are name calling or saying we are whining you are not being constructive nor helpful in any manor, you are being a bully. If you actually care about the game either contribute helpful information or do not comment.

ianangelospreub18_ESO wrote: »

AreoHotah wrote: »

All this fuss, virtual war and anger for a wolf pet!! A WOLF PET!?!?!? I probably don't understand all of this because ESO is my 1st MMO and i'm not really an elitist. But still imo the 2014 gamer is exagerating.

"When did people become complacent. When did we stop fighting for simple things like respect. Those in this thread that have called each other names, that have bullied, or wanted to do nothing. What would it take for you to stand up for yourself? Does it have to reach a point where the subscription fee is doubled? or would you even be ok with that. Not just what would it take for you to quit the game but what would it take for you to love the game enough to actually fight to make it better and be treated fairly? Do not act like you deserve nothing. This issue may not be important to you, but how long will it be before another issues comes up that is?"
What do you want, a game that does not improve where you are treated with disrespect? Or do you want to show that something matters to you as a player so that maybe ZOS takes notice and does something about it? Better yet which player do you think ZOS appreciates more? The players that stand by simply using them to play their game and enjoy it without contributing to make it better through discussion while also criticizing anyone who does? Or the player that stands up for themselves and shows ZOS what they want and what is important to them so that they can make a better game, and in turn make more money off of not just current Subs but future new players in a way that is far more efficient then dangling a shiny toy in front of newcomers? Think before you type, if you are name calling or saying we are whining you are not being constructive nor helpful in any manor, you are being a bully. If you actually care about the game either contribute helpful information or do not comment.

I agree with your post, and due to the toxicity of this forum, would like to suggest that the actual feedback providers should simply ignore the trolls. Don't feed them.

As good as your post is, it seriously needs some paragraphs.

Yeah balancing the game is nice, adjusting vet level blah blah meta games whatever is nice and.. No I'm joking we don't care all we want is the DOGGY !

Tandor wrote: »

To answer the original question - what's wrong with gamers these days are two things.

First, they want everything. Preferably now, and preferably free, but certainly if they buy a game from one store with certain rewards they expect to get all the other rewards that would have been available if they had bought it from a different store (some being prepared to pay for them but others feeling "entitled" to them for nothing). They also feel that when they made their purchase at the first store they should have been told that the developer may later try and sell the game through the second store.

Second, they regard any variation in a developer's game or marketing design from their own preferences as an indication of total moral bankruptcy on the part of the developer, and therefore a reason to announce that they are quitting the game when in all probability they will do no such thing.

Of course, that's only in relation to a small minority of gamers. As to the rest, there's nothing wrong with them at all given that they continue to play their game perfectly happily, much to the chagrin of those who see conspiracy and betrayal behind every patch note and business announcement.

I respectfully disagree with your first point.

There are always gamers that want everything "now now NOW!!!", and there always have been. That's a problem with gamers in general, not just gamers today.

If you were a diehard Sonic fan, and you found out that two different stores were selling the same game with a few different customization options that you both liked, you would naturally want them both, right? Exactly. People are naturally greedy. This isn't a problem with gamers, this is a problem with humanity.

And in relation to that, of course we would want all of the rewards. What kind of diehard fan wouldn't want to say, "well, I got both version A and version B and beat them both"?

Gaming means different things to different people. For some, it's about satisfaction. Finding something to feel good about when real life just doesn't cut it. For others, it's about relaxing after a hard day at work / school, and just taking it easy. There are also people who play games as a way to just experience it - get immersed in the journey, with no worries about the destination.

To answer the original question, there's nothing wrong with gamers today. Anyone can look at forums and say "wow, they complain so much, we wouldn't do that back in the day", but you can't say that for sure. Back in "the day", you didn't have forums to vent your frustrations to, you had friends. The frustrations you confided in your friends were somewhat confidential, and rarely reached more than a few dozen people. Now, not only do we have many social outlets to vent these frustrations through, but we're encouraged to do so.

Take that, put it together with the fact that updating a game no longer means sending new physical copies to everyone who bought it, and it creates a community that looks like they've got entitlement issues, but really, they're just doing what anyone would've done.

So tl;dr, there's nothing wrong with gamers today, it's just that you're now seeing sides of the communities that you would never have had the chance to see back then.

I rest my case, good day.

Miflett wrote: »

txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »

ebondeath wrote: »

Great, you don't want the dog.
So why do you care if some of us do?
There is not a damn thing wrong with me for wanting the option to BUY the same dog as a stand-alone that I have no problem with new people getting for free. Thanks for your concern though.

Oh, these whiners want it for free. As soon as ZOS says they are going to charge $4.99 for it, expect the whine-fest to start anew. I guarantee it.

My guess is that the majority of people want non time-limited options to obtain equal content, which I don't really think is that bad of a thing to want.

If that is true, then I have no problem with this, but I once again guarantee you, that once ZOS announces a price for this vanity pet, it will start the outrage machine in full force again. Do you really think otherwise? Have you seen the behavior on here?

txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »

Miflett wrote: »

txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »

ebondeath wrote: »

Great, you don't want the dog.
So why do you care if some of us do?
There is not a damn thing wrong with me for wanting the option to BUY the same dog as a stand-alone that I have no problem with new people getting for free. Thanks for your concern though.

Oh, these whiners want it for free. As soon as ZOS says they are going to charge $4.99 for it, expect the whine-fest to start anew. I guarantee it.

My guess is that the majority of people want non time-limited options to obtain equal content, which I don't really think is that bad of a thing to want.

If that is true, then I have no problem with this, but I once again guarantee you, that once ZOS announces a price for this vanity pet, it will start the outrage machine in full force again. Do you really think otherwise? Have you seen the behavior on here?

I think it would go a long way, and I can do a pretty good job of ignoring things that don't really harm me.

AreoHotah wrote: »

All this fuss, virtual war and anger for a wolf pet!! A WOLF PET!?!?!? I probably don't understand all of this because ESO is my 1st MMO and i'm not really an elitist. But still imo the 2014 gamer is exagerating.

I think this post made some sort of Bingo.

emeraldbay wrote: »

If you were a diehard Sonic fan, and you found out that two different stores were selling the same game with a few different customization options that you both liked, you would naturally want them both, right? Exactly. People are naturally greedy. This isn't a problem with gamers, this is a problem with humanity.

And in relation to that, of course we would want all of the rewards. What kind of diehard fan wouldn't want to say, "well, I got both version A and version B and beat them both"?

Actually that isn't exactly true, this is a new phenomenon that I haven't come across until this game. It's always been the case that if you pre-ordered the game through one retailer you got different in-game rewards than if you pre-ordered it through a different retailer. They each have their own special arrangements with the developer.

What has previously happened with other games is that the tiny percentage of players who did want everything were prepared to buy more than one copy of the game and register them all to the same account so they could get all the rewards - and to do so without complaint. I get that people are upset that they can't do that with this game and the Steam promotion, but it's hardly a cancellation issue.

Tandor wrote: »

emeraldbay wrote: »

If you were a diehard Sonic fan, and you found out that two different stores were selling the same game with a few different customization options that you both liked, you would naturally want them both, right? Exactly. People are naturally greedy. This isn't a problem with gamers, this is a problem with humanity.

And in relation to that, of course we would want all of the rewards. What kind of diehard fan wouldn't want to say, "well, I got both version A and version B and beat them both"?

Actually that isn't exactly true, this is a new phenomenon that I haven't come across until this game. It's always been the case that if you pre-ordered the game through one retailer you got different in-game rewards than if you pre-ordered it through a different retailer. They each have their own special arrangements with the developer.

What has previously happened with other games is that the tiny percentage of players who did want everything were prepared to buy more than one copy of the game and register them all to the same account so they could get all the rewards - and to do so without complaint. I get that people are upset that they can't do that with this game and the Steam promotion, but it's hardly a cancellation issue.

Cancelling your subscription is taking it a bit too far if this is your only issue, but for some people, this was just the final nail in the coffin. There's no telling what may push people over the edge, but there's only so much one can tolerate. A slap in the face like this was undoubtedly enough for some people to say "well, I'm never doing business with you guys again", and I can kind of see why.

It's like, after putting up with all of their *** over the past three months, new players get a discount and a new pet, and what do we get? The chance to be jealous of the Steamies' new pet.

Snit wrote: »

What's wrong with gamers?

• An inability to understand that other people have different opinions, sometimes strong ones
• An odd sense of violation and rage when confronted with things they don't understand, such as people with different opinions
• A strong urge to post angry rants directed at strawman opponents, usually with all-caps fake quotes
• An assumption that they're clearly more mature than those anonymous others out there, the ones with a different opinion

Empathy and the internet don't mix very well.

Surprisingly, people have opinions about opinions. Now, follow me here:

Some people... wait for it... some people find a vanity pet to be a pointless thing to devote your time to whining about, especially when there are far more important features that need debate. Every problem is not equal. There are people here who have thought that the delete character limit was a serious issue. There is absolutely no problem with the halfway-rational people on the forum (those of us that are left) rising up and saying, "That's not as big an issue as you are making it out to be. Stop complaining about things that don't matter, because eventually ZO will stop listening to the forums if they see it as a place for overly sensitive players to whine about perceived insults to their loyalty."

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

What's wrong with gamers?

• An inability to understand that other people have different opinions, sometimes strong ones
• An odd sense of violation and rage when confronted with things they don't understand, such as people with different opinions
• A strong urge to post angry rants directed at strawman opponents, usually with all-caps fake quotes
• An assumption that they're clearly more mature than those anonymous others out there, the ones with a different opinion

Empathy and the internet don't mix very well.

Surprisingly, people have opinions about opinions. Now, follow me here:

Some people... wait for it... some people find a vanity pet to be a pointless thing to devote your time to whining about, especially when there are far more important features that need debate. Every problem is not equal. There are people here who have thought that the delete character limit was a serious issue. There is absolutely no problem with the halfway-rational people on the forum (those of us that are left) rising up and saying, "That's not as big an issue as you are making it out to be. Stop complaining about things that don't matter, because eventually ZO will stop listening to the forums if they see it as a place for overly sensitive players to whine about perceived insults to their loyalty."

This kind of complaining exists in every game, it's to be expected and it shouldn't cause ZOS to become jaded towards its players.

The thing is, you are saying this doesn't matter to me, therefore, stop complaining about it. And while you are entitled to your opinion, others are entitled to tell you to stop complaining about them complaining for whatever reason.

The problem is as big as any given person perceives it as. Perception is reality after all.

This type of complaining happens in every forum, agreed. But it doesn't happen to the degree I've seen it here. These forums become absolutely unbearable on days where ZO is perceived to have done anything that might slightly ruffle anyone's feathers.

The Reddit subforum for ESO displays better manners and behavior than this forum. That should speak volumes about the absolutely shameful state of things here.

williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

What's wrong with gamers?

• An inability to understand that other people have different opinions, sometimes strong ones
• An odd sense of violation and rage when confronted with things they don't understand, such as people with different opinions
• A strong urge to post angry rants directed at strawman opponents, usually with all-caps fake quotes
• An assumption that they're clearly more mature than those anonymous others out there, the ones with a different opinion

Empathy and the internet don't mix very well.

Surprisingly, people have opinions about opinions. Now, follow me here:

Some people... wait for it... some people find a vanity pet to be a pointless thing to devote your time to whining about, especially when there are far more important features that need debate. Every problem is not equal. There are people here who have thought that the delete character limit was a serious issue. There is absolutely no problem with the halfway-rational people on the forum (those of us that are left) rising up and saying, "That's not as big an issue as you are making it out to be. Stop complaining about things that don't matter, because eventually ZO will stop listening to the forums if they see it as a place for overly sensitive players to whine about perceived insults to their loyalty."

Having fierce opinions about other peoples' opinions is not a mark of rationality, it is the mark of a surplus of free time and the desire to have a reason, any reason at all, to argue with people and call them wrong.

There have been maybe 3 threads today that were worth actual discussion. Can you think of why that might be? Can you imagine any earthly reason that so few useful threads were posted/noticed today?

People hijacking the forums for waves of petty complaint threads ruin the overall quality of discussion. Some of us like discussion.

williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

What's wrong with gamers?

• An inability to understand that other people have different opinions, sometimes strong ones
• An odd sense of violation and rage when confronted with things they don't understand, such as people with different opinions
• A strong urge to post angry rants directed at strawman opponents, usually with all-caps fake quotes
• An assumption that they're clearly more mature than those anonymous others out there, the ones with a different opinion

Empathy and the internet don't mix very well.

Surprisingly, people have opinions about opinions. Now, follow me here:

Some people... wait for it... some people find a vanity pet to be a pointless thing to devote your time to whining about, especially when there are far more important features that need debate. Every problem is not equal. There are people here who have thought that the delete character limit was a serious issue. There is absolutely no problem with the halfway-rational people on the forum (those of us that are left) rising up and saying, "That's not as big an issue as you are making it out to be. Stop complaining about things that don't matter, because eventually ZO will stop listening to the forums if they see it as a place for overly sensitive players to whine about perceived insults to their loyalty."

Having fierce opinions about other peoples' opinions is not a mark of rationality, it is the mark of a surplus of free time and the desire to have a reason, any reason at all, to argue with people and call them wrong.

There have been maybe 3 threads today that were worth actual discussion. Can you think of why that might be? Can you imagine any earthly reason that so few useful threads were posted/noticed today?

People hijacking the forums for waves of petty complaint threads ruin the overall quality of discussion. Some of us like discussion.

These forums are not your personal forums. You are in no position whatsoever to say what's "hijacking" them. Nor are you in any position to dictate what's "worth actual" discussion.

If there were a billion threads on the topic, it would show that other people are invested in talking about a thing. Rather than pushing your face in to get all angsty about it, telling people what's "worth" talking about and what's not, how about some exercise on that scroll wheel there, pard'ner?

I mean, it's clear you like discussion when it's what you want to discuss, so why such a big aggressive frowny-face when people talk about what they want to talk about?

I'm not sure why this is a hard concept to grasp.

This was a non-issue. But enough people have figured out that whining loud enough gets them noticed. Which is not behavior I'm willing to endorse.

You feel differently. Thank you for expressing your opinion on the subject.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Miflett wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

AreoHotah wrote: »

All this fuss, virtual war and anger for a wolf pet!! A WOLF PET!?!?!? I probably don't understand all of this because ESO is my 1st MMO and i'm not really an elitist. But still imo the 2014 gamer is exagerating.

Entitlement based on wrong education by their parents. Not saying its the sole fault of them, but todays kids grow up with having access to everything.

They don't need to save their allowance for a video game, music CD or DVD - they can just DL it for free in the web. They don't learn that they can not have everything, either the parents throw money at them or they find other ways to get what they want.

So if at one day there is something they cant have, they start a rebellion and complain.

Not every young breed is spoiled, but those who are sadly make a lot of noise and I don't see how this will ever stop.

Where you see an entitlement issue, I see false walls being put up in favor of turning a profit and the disregard of players wanting access to 100% of content with their subscription.

It isn't content. It is a promotional vanity pet. Apples and spaceships.

To you.

Which is the whole point here apparently.

The dog is not content, it's a visible title. Get over it, it isn't content. It's just a promotional marketing toy. It does not have any impact on gameplay at all in any way shape or form.


GET READY TO WHINE! I have have a title on the forum you don't! /sarcasm

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And apparently you did not understand so let me try a more direct approach.

It IS content.

Just like every single other piece of this game.

You may not think it is important , but unless you think it got into the game by magic and that it could exist even without this game , IT IS PART OF THIS GAME CONTENT.

PS: which is being locked to tons of players even after they said they would not do that. Not that zen breaking their first promises surprise me lols. Liars , that is what they have been since the first week lols.

It is not content unless you figured some magical way to play your dog. It's a promotional vanity bauble. Sounds like you're whining over some random madness ,not the dog.

You really dont understand what a game content is do you?

It is ANYTHING inside the game.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

What's wrong with gamers?

• An inability to understand that other people have different opinions, sometimes strong ones
• An odd sense of violation and rage when confronted with things they don't understand, such as people with different opinions
• A strong urge to post angry rants directed at strawman opponents, usually with all-caps fake quotes
• An assumption that they're clearly more mature than those anonymous others out there, the ones with a different opinion

Empathy and the internet don't mix very well.

Surprisingly, people have opinions about opinions. Now, follow me here:

Some people... wait for it... some people find a vanity pet to be a pointless thing to devote your time to whining about, especially when there are far more important features that need debate. Every problem is not equal. There are people here who have thought that the delete character limit was a serious issue. There is absolutely no problem with the halfway-rational people on the forum (those of us that are left) rising up and saying, "That's not as big an issue as you are making it out to be. Stop complaining about things that don't matter, because eventually ZO will stop listening to the forums if they see it as a place for overly sensitive players to whine about perceived insults to their loyalty."

And again , you are too arrogant to understand it.

We dont care if you think it is not important , we dont care if you think we should start complaining about other things.

We care about this , so we complain about it , it is that simple.

Hell i could enter in every PvP thread in this forum and say it is a waste of time and a stupid pointless discussion , PvP is thus irrelevant because i dont care about it and i dont care if others do either. Problem is , i dont have a say in what other find relevant or not.

So yeah , neither does you , dont matter how much you complain about the people complaining, we really wont stop anything.

Laura wrote: »

The industry has changed and people have just sort of accepted it. There are those of us who remember a golden age when our subscription included everything, sure.

The bigger issue now is the work that the subscription model has cut out for it.

I'm not going to turn this into a F2P vs sub topic, what I will say, as someone who does think the sub model has more to offer, is I can still appreciate how F2P has changed the MMO landscape.

I think a sub model needs to do more to justify itself, not necessarily to me personally but, certainly, to a great many people.

Part of that is that those operating a subscription model need to put a lot of thought into creating loyalty, game companies need to let us know they appreciate that we pay them a certain amount of money each month rather than throw that money into a F2P cash shop.

FFXIV does a great job of this. Over the last year they've rewarded my subscription with various pets and mounts and even gave me the additional item introduced in the PS4 Collector's Edition because I already owned the PC Collector's Edition.

I'm not going to pretend Square-Enix love me or that FFXIV's head honcho Naoki Yoshida is my BFF or anything. But I do, at least, feel that they are thankful for me giving them money on a regular basis.