crislevin wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

rusila22 wrote: »

Guys guys they just nerf a little their HP and a little of their damage. Stop saying ohoh i can kill them ONLY with light and heavy attack if it's really true post a video without any skill on your Bar thank you ! (jizuz sometimes people are so mad )

Pretty much this.

And it is obvious that to us , people that played and managed vr content before the nerf , the content will appear a lot easier , we could already do it anyway.

This was done for the players that could not deal with it.

this makes a lot of sense.

for those who already can manage difficult VR, you probably went through most of them already, just goto Craglorn or vet dungeons.

this is for those who couldn't before, now they have a chance to experience VR and learn gradually.

just let it go.

So what were they doing for the first 49 levels?

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

mumok wrote: »

spinedoc wrote: »

What's the problem? Take off your weapon and/or your armor if you find it too easy. I don't understand why people complain. Personally I find it much less fun to have to replay the same EXACT content that my alt played and would rather get through it as fast as possible. If you want to take it slowly with a challenge no one is stopping you.

This is one of those weird complaints I just never understood.

Well here you go. Don't know why no one has thought of this already. If you want more difficulty take your cloths off, heck just fight with your hands. This is like a difficulty toggle switch already in game.

I'm all for the VR difficulty adjustment. It makes the game more enjoyable for more people. And that's what its about right?

This has been said before but all you need to do is look at the VR zones to see that this was the right move for ESO. They actually have people in them now.

Why stop there?

How bout we play with one hand tied behind our backs? Maybe we could play blind folded? I know, lets play using our feet!

Anyone else have any ridiculous suggestions?

Look I'm just trying to give you options if difficulty is what you are looking for.

Hilgara wrote: »

MrMT wrote: »

i simply don't understand why people are complaining.

If you want it harder, take off your gear. Simple as that.

Yeah , thats really immersive isnt it? Loads of people running around in their underwear.

You could put on a costume. That should be immersive enough.

I agree, they went too far with the nerf and made it too easy, but they have to cater to the lowest common denominator of skill/capability when people feel so very entitled to access all content without, y'know, actually having to hone their skills and decision-making on talents etc.

Oh, and who cares about the actual percentage of nerf anyway? The feeling remains the same: it was too harsh a nerf.

All we can really hope for now is new challenging content to offset the easy mode they've introduced to the vet zones.

The problem isn't as simple as how many HPs a mob has or how hard they hit. For every encounter type, there is a strategy that works by exploiting some specific weakness in the mob's abilities or AI. Without that strategy, some of the fights are nearly impossible, but once you pick up that strategy, the fight becomes much easier, and oftentimes a faceroll.

And the balance between trash mobs and bosses is still out of whack. It's silly that most of the bosses are trivially easy compared to the trash mobs along the way to them.

I'm quite annoyed at this too - My partner and I 2-manned 1/3 of a group dungeon in Craglorn at levels VR11 for me, VR12 for him - 2-manned 2 public dungeons with ease, also in Craglorn - This is ridiculous. Before release, people were informed this was meant to be a challenging game, and then they go and cater to the "casual" players while the rest of us who enjoy a challenge in a game, have to suffer. Also, as OP said, this is live - Why should anyone still be paying a subscription fee for a game basically still in Beta? The numbers have crashed already, won't be long until more subscriptions are lost.
My main pet peev about this game so far are the damn bugs I am still suffering from since Pre-release - Zenimax have had more time than needed to fix these things, but instead they leave them there to continue while bringing out new content (3/4 of the player base were nowhere near Crag levels when it was brought out), still, bringing out even more new content, but failing to fix the damn issues that are still plaguing the game.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Anastasia wrote: »

I'm fine that the solo player has a specific and important market share. I am not fine that this MMO which was long planned to have a very equitable chunk of/provision for both group-centric and solo playstyles prior to attempting to enter into endgame has now been morphed.

You don't seem to want to accept players with your interests are in such a small minority that ZOS presumably believed your numbers wouldn't make the game viable.

I think some people arguing against the change need to get some real-life experience of the reality of the marketplace.

ZOS had a vision, but the people didn't come in large enough numbers that wanted it. Same reason Warhammer closed. Same reason other MMOs closed.

---

*fromtesonlineb16, you continue to contribute a lot of important points to this issue, thanks. Perhaps it will turn out you are totally point on, which is the quandary I addressed in my last post. I've a 'tad' real life experience in the reality of the marketplace actually. TESO is not some Kickstarter, two-year indie dream team plot. Not that there is anything at all wrong with that scenario either...would probs suit my gaming entertainment inclinations a lot -- I adored Fallen Earth despite some of its curious shortcomings.

I do not think we 'know' why they decided to nerf Vet+ content. I do not believe that because they took that action, it directly provides proof that TESO was losing subs because of the Vet content difficulty level or mob density therein. These are guesses. Not proof "why" the nerf was done. Company's make decisions often that are the 'best of two or more bad choices'; cost and profit analysis is usually at the top of the list, but there are other complicating factors that will affect that scenario if not addressed/redirected immediately. Also some decisions are made to 'refocus' certain public challenges or assist their p-r folks with a particularly difficult period of public disengagement with their product.

I stand by my comment that the resources put into this game for years prior to launch included plenty of direct input industry projections based on more important data than "Oh gee, lets make a unique lil' MMO for group-centric PvE'rs, soloers, and PvP'rs. It will be just dandy, don't worry, we promise you that is what the market has been waiting for." Start-up talk points for an entrepreneurial corner hotdog cart include more justification and cost analysis than that. LoL, the game would have remained a dev's dream plot instead of a viable profit-producing risk worth pursuing.

One point is the money fronted, the time and resources spent on designing a winning MMO like TESO for many, many YEARS prior to launch cannot be explained away so easily.

I just find it impossible to believe the creative, awesome experienced development staff are sitting around shaking their heads with their arms flailing around. Or that they are dodging spitballs from the money people who are screaming "You wasted our money for YEARS creating a game for MMO PvE vets as well as solo folks and PvP'rs. You were so WRONG. But now that you have 'fixed' it all for the soloers, hmm-k, we'll just keep on funneling more money into it while you figure out if knee-jerk guesses are the responsible way to fix what shouldn't have been made in the first place! You just better get this squared away. We were mislead, but now we understand so go, go, go!"

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Anastasia wrote: »

I just find it impossible to believe the creative, awesome experienced development staff are sitting around shaking their heads with their arms flailing around. Or that they are dodging spitballs from the money people who are screaming "You wasted our money for YEARS creating a game for MMO PvE vets as well as solo folks and PvP'rs. You were so WRONG. But now that you have 'fixed' it all for the soloers, hmm-k, we'll just keep on funneling more money into it while you figure out if knee-jerk guesses are the responsible way to fix what shouldn't have been made in the first place! You just better get this squared away. We were mislead, but now we understand so go, go, go!"

Zenimax Online was set up to make this game, they had no experience of MMOs and bought in most of the 'talent' they needed.

I'll not bias your view, I'll simply suggest you look up the names of the lead designers, 'director' and other key staff then research the successful games those people had been involved with prior to joining ZOS.

Most of your key questions will be answered by looking at just what those who designed ESO had done before.

---

Insightful enough fromtesonlineb16 to make me reach back years and try to figure out which info dump I started following to acquire the misinformation I based my support, purchase and sub of this MMO on.

Guessing I was intrigued and hoping to be convinced. I admit the consequences to endgame, the general turning away from original overall vision ASIDE from ALL the other really IMPORTANT challenges that need to be attended to, is what annoys me...guess it was my "line in the sand." I fully expected adjustments to be needed, balancing and changes to occur in the first year or so of a new MMORPG...but never, ever expected this, or this, so soon. *Nods to fromtesolineb16.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

THREE MONTHS!

Most MMOs I play have needed some 'tweaking' early on .. The Old Forest in LOTRO being a good example for those that experienced it .. and some have had large-scale zone revamps over time .. LOTRO again being the one that readily springs to mind .. but for the developer to be even talking about large-scale revamps so early on is .. shocking.

The only other game I can think of where the developers recognised the need for such large changes was FFXIV V1 .. I'll leave it at that, for now.

Well unfortunately it shows the scale of their misjudgement of the market and it's resulted in what may be an over-compensation. But hopefully it will buy them the financial breathing space to get a good Plan B going that will get a balance.

Just like LOTRO has now begun adjusting difficulty levels upward from the Helm's Deep levels.

I really enjoyed The Old Forest in its original form but MMO's were different then and there were always people around.

Give the hard cores Craglorn and what ever content is planned as hard mode.
Don't lock gear or mats for legendary gear behind raid doors.

I wonder how many hard cores there will be then? Will Craglorn be empty?

Burnemdown wrote: »

Give the hard cores Craglorn and what ever content is planned as hard mode.
Don't lock gear or mats for legendary gear behind raid doors.

I wonder how many hard cores there will be then? Will Craglorn be empty?

Well there will always be anomaly farmers in Craglorn, won't there?

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

I'll not bias your view, I'll simply suggest you look up the names of the lead designers, 'director' and other key staff then research the successful games those people had been involved with prior to joining ZOS.

Quite. These are people with a vision, however admirable, that is out of tune with today's market. ESO would have been awesome back in 2004 but times have changed.

One key aspect in which the market has changed is that there are a ton of good MMO's out there for people to go play. You just don't have the breathing space to release something in a barely working state and spend months and months fixing it.

You could do that back in the MMO Dark Ages - not now. You certainly cannot expect people to be happy spending $15 a month waiting for things to work.