Please readjust the insane VR content nerf
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Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alphashado wrote: »Same 10 people insisting they change it back. Meanwhile I saw 12 people in V10 Rift bank today. Such a thing was unheard of before the nerf. It was a ghost town. I would sit for 30 mins in that bank (It's my favorite little town) w/o seeing anyone else and that was prime time hours.
So yes I think it's unfortunate that some people hate the changes and I hope that ZoS can figure out a way to make you guys happy.
But the upper vet zones are incredibly active now. And I for one am happy to see it.
Whether or not there are more player bodies meandering around has zero to do with whether or not there is more grouping occurring, which is what the Vet content was DESIGNED FOR. There is good justification for having some space/content provide good impetus for players to group up with some amount of regularity on their way to endgame. And not just a few dungeons or delves here and there.
If soloing in and around that content and 'seeing' more players running around near you or passing you or crafting in town makes you enjoy the content more, I have no problem with that.
However its important to note that whether the zones were 'empty' for a time period before this nerf, or whether they are now teeming with bodies --- neither situation is occurring or has occurred as a result of ZOS doing something to ENCOURAGE MORE GROUPING. They did not raise the level of group loot, provide interesting new clues for groups to head out after in pursuit of another fresh quest, they did not add more of a bonus to the e x p earned for grouping etc.
They nerfed a large swath of area which now allows a portion of our players to more easily fight the mobs they must face there SOLO. That is a 'taking away', a dilution to content, not something that respectfully addresses solo'rs desires for more solid, reasonably challenging solo content.
The consequences of nerfing Vet+ 1-10 is being felt further along in endgame. There are/have been and will continue to be posts and ingame chat comments about not being able to find a group. Unfortunately not everyone is in a guild. In many of mmo's there is a good percentage of the player population that in fact never guild up. They still deserve a reasonable chance to play/compete/participate in endgame though.
The lack of necessity or even "encouragement" for grouping in Vet content which COULD have been provided now means the way players handle themselves as they begin facing endgame will be, well, lacking in all cases except for experienced MMO PvE players. Then there is the issue of how much farther soloability will be demanded to proceed.
I'd not look at a player who I know has solo'd allll the way from level 1 to Vet+ level 10 and think they 'ought' to know what they are doing and be equipped and ready to dance upon hitting endgame. But that is because I know they should have been accorded the respect of having quality grouping content which would help shape and prep them for TESO endgame. *Shrugs,![:\](https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
I guess the bone was big enough.
Blah blah blah. I have seen your posts. The same thing over and over. You relentlessly spew the same exact paragraph clip over and over and over again. But you never EVER include the entire quote. You know exactly what I am talking about. Vet zones were designed to encourage grouping. Yes you endlessly quote that clipped sentance over and over. At least 100 times this last week. You seem to think it's some kind of grabs all powerful weapon like your own personal Jedi light saber.
But the part you so intentionally leave out is "we wanted to encourage group play BUT NOT FORCE IT". Please use the entire sentence.
Yes we all understand how epic you guys are. But there aren't enough of you super heros to pay the bills. Vet zones are populated now and people are resubbing. Zos has said several times they are developing content for you. Just move on already.
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tengri✭✭✭✭✭In the process of nerfing they lost the first alternate alliance zone.
What I mean: VR1-5 is too easy now. Solo play possible everywhere no problems at all but the last 2 public dungeons.
VR6-8 (that's where I am now) is... starting to interest me again.
This difficulty of the second zone set needs to go to the first zone set; and then the second zone needs to scale up accordingly.2 -
Loco_Mofo✭✭✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »Same 10 people insisting they change it back. Meanwhile I saw 12 people in V10 Rift bank today. Such a thing was unheard of before the nerf. It was a ghost town. I would sit for 30 mins in that bank (It's my favorite little town) w/o seeing anyone else and that was prime time hours.
So yes I think it's unfortunate that some people hate the changes and I hope that ZoS can figure out a way to make you guys happy.
But the upper vet zones are incredibly active now. And I for one am happy to see it.
Whether or not there are more player bodies meandering around has zero to do with whether or not there is more grouping occurring, which is what the Vet content was DESIGNED FOR. There is good justification for having some space/content provide good impetus for players to group up with some amount of regularity on their way to endgame. And not just a few dungeons or delves here and there.
If soloing in and around that content and 'seeing' more players running around near you or passing you or crafting in town makes you enjoy the content more, I have no problem with that.
However its important to note that whether the zones were 'empty' for a time period before this nerf, or whether they are now teeming with bodies --- neither situation is occurring or has occurred as a result of ZOS doing something to ENCOURAGE MORE GROUPING. They did not raise the level of group loot, provide interesting new clues for groups to head out after in pursuit of another fresh quest, they did not add more of a bonus to the e x p earned for grouping etc.
They nerfed a large swath of area which now allows a portion of our players to more easily fight the mobs they must face there SOLO. That is a 'taking away', a dilution to content, not something that respectfully addresses solo'rs desires for more solid, reasonably challenging solo content.
The consequences of nerfing Vet+ 1-10 is being felt further along in endgame. There are/have been and will continue to be posts and ingame chat comments about not being able to find a group. Unfortunately not everyone is in a guild. In many of mmo's there is a good percentage of the player population that in fact never guild up. They still deserve a reasonable chance to play/compete/participate in endgame though.
The lack of necessity or even "encouragement" for grouping in Vet content which COULD have been provided now means the way players handle themselves as they begin facing endgame will be, well, lacking in all cases except for experienced MMO PvE players. Then there is the issue of how much farther soloability will be demanded to proceed.
I'd not look at a player who I know has solo'd allll the way from level 1 to Vet+ level 10 and think they 'ought' to know what they are doing and be equipped and ready to dance upon hitting endgame. But that is because I know they should have been accorded the respect of having quality grouping content which would help shape and prep them for TESO endgame. *Shrugs, I guess the bone was big enough.
Blah blah blah. I have seen your posts. The same thing over and over. You relentlessly spew the same exact paragraph clip over and over and over again. But you never EVER include the entire quote. You know exactly what I am talking about. Vet zones were designed to encourage grouping. Yes you endlessly quote that clipped sentance over and over. At least 100 times this last week. You seem to think it's some kind of grabs all powerful weapon like your own personal Jedi light saber.
But the part you so intentionally leave out is "we wanted to encourage group play BUT NOT FORCE IT". Please use the entire sentence.
Yes we all understand how epic you guys are. But there aren't enough of you super heros to pay the bills. Vet zones are populated now and people are resubbing. Zos has said several times they are developing content for you. Just move on already.
And what do we have now? Vet zones are completely soloable. Dolmens, public delves, no groups required. ZoS has done a complete back flip on their own vision, nice one. Vet zones were nerfed into the ground and are brain dead boring now. ZoS has effectively eliminated the need for grouping in an MMO besides niche modes like time trials or vet dungeons that nobody runs anymore.
You say you're seeing more people in vet zones (I don't BTW), well who cares? Are you going to group up with them to complete challenging content? No, you don't need them anymore. In fact, having others in my area I'm completing ruin the experience because easy content now becomes even easier. I'm no super hero, sorry to disappoint, I just have fun completing challenging content, if it's not challenging then it's boring to me. Not a hard concept to grasp I don't think, people like to be challenged.
If people are resubbing like you claim, that's great. Please link the source where you read this. I would love to see it.3 -
Anastasia✭✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »Same 10 people insisting they change it back. Meanwhile I saw 12 people in V10 Rift bank today. Such a thing was unheard of before the nerf. It was a ghost town. I would sit for 30 mins in that bank (It's my favorite little town) w/o seeing anyone else and that was prime time hours.
So yes I think it's unfortunate that some people hate the changes and I hope that ZoS can figure out a way to make you guys happy.
But the upper vet zones are incredibly active now. And I for one am happy to see it.
Whether or not there are more player bodies meandering around has zero to do with whether or not there is more grouping occurring, which is what the Vet content was DESIGNED FOR. There is good justification for having some space/content provide good impetus for players to group up with some amount of regularity on their way to endgame. And not just a few dungeons or delves here and there.
If soloing in and around that content and 'seeing' more players running around near you or passing you or crafting in town makes you enjoy the content more, I have no problem with that.
However its important to note that whether the zones were 'empty' for a time period before this nerf, or whether they are now teeming with bodies --- neither situation is occurring or has occurred as a result of ZOS doing something to ENCOURAGE MORE GROUPING. They did not raise the level of group loot, provide interesting new clues for groups to head out after in pursuit of another fresh quest, they did not add more of a bonus to the e x p earned for grouping etc.
They nerfed a large swath of area which now allows a portion of our players to more easily fight the mobs they must face there SOLO. That is a 'taking away', a dilution to content, not something that respectfully addresses solo'rs desires for more solid, reasonably challenging solo content.
The consequences of nerfing Vet+ 1-10 is being felt further along in endgame. There are/have been and will continue to be posts and ingame chat comments about not being able to find a group. Unfortunately not everyone is in a guild. In many of mmo's there is a good percentage of the player population that in fact never guild up. They still deserve a reasonable chance to play/compete/participate in endgame though.
The lack of necessity or even "encouragement" for grouping in Vet content which COULD have been provided now means the way players handle themselves as they begin facing endgame will be, well, lacking in all cases except for experienced MMO PvE players. Then there is the issue of how much farther soloability will be demanded to proceed.
I'd not look at a player who I know has solo'd allll the way from level 1 to Vet+ level 10 and think they 'ought' to know what they are doing and be equipped and ready to dance upon hitting endgame. But that is because I know they should have been accorded the respect of having quality grouping content which would help shape and prep them for TESO endgame. *Shrugs, I guess the bone was big enough.
Blah blah blah. I have seen your posts. The same thing over and over. You relentlessly spew the same exact paragraph clip over and over and over again. But you never EVER include the entire quote. You know exactly what I am talking about. Vet zones were designed to encourage grouping. Yes you endlessly quote that clipped sentance over and over. At least 100 times this last week. You seem to think it's some kind of grabs all powerful weapon like your own personal Jedi light saber.
But the part you so intentionally leave out is "we wanted to encourage group play BUT NOT FORCE IT". Please use the entire sentence.
Yes we all understand how epic you guys are. But there aren't enough of you super heros to pay the bills. Vet zones are populated now and people are resubbing. Zos has said several times they are developing content for you. Just move on already.
I said NOTHING about forcing group content, and have in fact in many posts upheld the reasonable request by solo-er's looking for quality, solid solo content.
I state and restate comments to stay focused on the reason why many are puzzled at the nerf and the major endgame consequences it brings, rather than additional positive changes and/or content being provided for Vet + 1-10. Being committed to a path, narrowing a focus, stick-to-it-ive-ness -- a very effective strategy for continuity, clarity and getting things done. As opposed to bleating around muddying up discussions with sidetracked subject matter and personal insults.
This game is made of a myriad of different types of players: new folks who have only ever consoled, FPS gamers who are trying this kind of gaming out for the first time, social-focused RP core players, PvP enthusiasts, and solo RPG types. I happen to be one of many PvE MMO vets who supported TESO for years, was active within fansites, and generally looked forward to its launch as something unique. Therefore I wish to continue to share my opinion on its evolution. And thats exactly what I fully intend to continue doing.
Let us both hope the 'populated' Vet zones as you wish to put it are indicative of some sort of renaissance and/or the staying of subscriptions across all player populations. It does seem odd that TESO devs choose to move forward cautiously and with modest changes to the issues of base-class balance, the stam/magic issues and other challenges, yet in the case of planned, 'group-encouraged' Vet content, just nerfed it. Good subject for continued discussion so that we can understand more clearly where it is this path is leading TESO.
Good journeys~
Edited by Anastasia on July 17, 2014 1:16AM3 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alphashado wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »Same 10 people insisting they change it back. Meanwhile I saw 12 people in V10 Rift bank today. Such a thing was unheard of before the nerf. It was a ghost town. I would sit for 30 mins in that bank (It's my favorite little town) w/o seeing anyone else and that was prime time hours.
So yes I think it's unfortunate that some people hate the changes and I hope that ZoS can figure out a way to make you guys happy.
But the upper vet zones are incredibly active now. And I for one am happy to see it.
Whether or not there are more player bodies meandering around has zero to do with whether or not there is more grouping occurring, which is what the Vet content was DESIGNED FOR. There is good justification for having some space/content provide good impetus for players to group up with some amount of regularity on their way to endgame. And not just a few dungeons or delves here and there.
If soloing in and around that content and 'seeing' more players running around near you or passing you or crafting in town makes you enjoy the content more, I have no problem with that.
However its important to note that whether the zones were 'empty' for a time period before this nerf, or whether they are now teeming with bodies --- neither situation is occurring or has occurred as a result of ZOS doing something to ENCOURAGE MORE GROUPING. They did not raise the level of group loot, provide interesting new clues for groups to head out after in pursuit of another fresh quest, they did not add more of a bonus to the e x p earned for grouping etc.
They nerfed a large swath of area which now allows a portion of our players to more easily fight the mobs they must face there SOLO. That is a 'taking away', a dilution to content, not something that respectfully addresses solo'rs desires for more solid, reasonably challenging solo content.
The consequences of nerfing Vet+ 1-10 is being felt further along in endgame. There are/have been and will continue to be posts and ingame chat comments about not being able to find a group. Unfortunately not everyone is in a guild. In many of mmo's there is a good percentage of the player population that in fact never guild up. They still deserve a reasonable chance to play/compete/participate in endgame though.
The lack of necessity or even "encouragement" for grouping in Vet content which COULD have been provided now means the way players handle themselves as they begin facing endgame will be, well, lacking in all cases except for experienced MMO PvE players. Then there is the issue of how much farther soloability will be demanded to proceed.
I'd not look at a player who I know has solo'd allll the way from level 1 to Vet+ level 10 and think they 'ought' to know what they are doing and be equipped and ready to dance upon hitting endgame. But that is because I know they should have been accorded the respect of having quality grouping content which would help shape and prep them for TESO endgame. *Shrugs, I guess the bone was big enough.
Blah blah blah. I have seen your posts. The same thing over and over. You relentlessly spew the same exact paragraph clip over and over and over again. But you never EVER include the entire quote. You know exactly what I am talking about. Vet zones were designed to encourage grouping. Yes you endlessly quote that clipped sentance over and over. At least 100 times this last week. You seem to think it's some kind of grabs all powerful weapon like your own personal Jedi light saber.
But the part you so intentionally leave out is "we wanted to encourage group play BUT NOT FORCE IT". Please use the entire sentence.
Yes we all understand how epic you guys are. But there aren't enough of you super heros to pay the bills. Vet zones are populated now and people are resubbing. Zos has said several times they are developing content for you. Just move on already.
And what do we have now? Vet zones are completely soloable. Dolmens, public delves, no groups required. ZoS has done a complete back flip on their own vision, nice one. Vet zones were nerfed into the ground and are brain dead boring now. ZoS has effectively eliminated the need for grouping in an MMO besides niche modes like time trials or vet dungeons that nobody runs anymore.
You say you're seeing more people in vet zones (I don't BTW), well who cares? Are you going to group up with them to complete challenging content? No, you don't need them anymore. In fact, having others in my area I'm completing ruin the experience because easy content now becomes even easier. I'm no super hero, sorry to disappoint, I just have fun completing challenging content, if it's not challenging then it's boring to me. Not a hard concept to grasp I don't think, people like to be challenged.
If people are resubbing like you claim, that's great. Please link the source where you read this. I would love to see it.
That's great that some people can solo dolmen and zone bosses. Most can't and I still haven't personally seen anyone do this yet. Most normal average players still require a group to do these. And even for the sake of argument let's assume that everyone can solo dolmen and zone bosses. That means questing zones are solo and dungeons and raids (and Craglorn) require groups.....like every other successful MMO?
And in regards to proving the upper vet zones are more populated now obviously I don't have any solid proof other than seeing ALOT more people in them and countless other post from people saying the same thing.
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atomikrej✭✭Just a reply to the above poster.
I soloed Dolmens in V7 zones. I was same level. Not exactly a cakewalk but it is doable. My preference is to do it in a group of 2 because its nice to do these "group" content with another human. However I'm not going to wait a long time for someone to respond. Here's how I solo:
First I'm prepared to die. As long as you take down some daedra you still make progress. Dolmens don't close when you die. But of course if you get in trouble you should try to run away. Just roll dodge away and heal up until the enemies stop chasing you then go back and try again.
Secondly I use cc abilities. Most daedra will get stunned by silver bolts so you can use that. My preference is for shattering rocks and obsidian shard which are Dk abilities. Using these two allows me to keep 2 enemies out of the fight which is quite useful.
If I have to fight a storm/frost atronach I will go for the weaker enemies first using hit and run tactics. Then use the ultimate at the end to take down the atronach 1 on 1.
For the final boss well it's a lottery. Sometimes they're a walkover and sometimes they are really tough. I got a super daedroth once which I beat by permanent cc but his light attacks were hitting for 1/4 health
If it makes a difference I dual wield in heavy armor. Most damage I do comes from stamina and weapons and I use magicka for cc and healing. So probably not a great build but it's sufficient
.
In general you should use all the buffs you can get. For instance food buffs, adv potions, crafted gear, mundus stone. Just recently I did a quest where the reward was you can pray at a shrine and get a buff of 5% damage reduction and 4% nonevent speed increase for 1 hour. The point is there are ways to make yourself stronger and everyone should be using them. Then you have a better chance of beating the content.
Doing dolmens is quite fun and I would do it more if there were better rewards. Sometimes all you get is a chest with 60 gold and a green item plus a single daedra husk from killing all the enemies.
So anyway I don't doubt there are people soloing dolmens naked. There's a lot of strong players who have mastered the game.
Happy gaming!2 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭
So even while you are correct, I cant see how id doesn't sway devs opinions.
The devs don't have the say. They are just hired hands. They get told to fix a problem identified by the metrics. When the problem is people cancelling their subs or stopping playing at or early into VR the problem is obvious. The metrics will include all the stuff about how players perform in VR. Deaths and the like.
And with a monthly sub business model they had to do something immediately, hence the massive nerf.
When I cancelled my recurring sub I was asked to say why in /feedback. i did. I also sent a long email to the marketing manager. That's where they get their detail from. Lost customers telling them precisely why they are lost.
The forums are just a reflection of the problem. Devs simply don't have the power to change stuff they find a tiny handful of customers ranting on about on forums.
We rant about a lot of stuff. In fact most posters were ranting against any VR change.
In this case it was painfully obvious what the VR problem is. They are addressing what they can with a short term nerf and a medium term vague intention to do further changes - the Champoin stuff.
What they noticeably are not proposing, despite it being a prominent complaint regarding VR, is getting rid of the whole other faction stories nonsense.
Forums are just a resource to help identify issues. No business will do anything based on what some guys on a forum rant on about. We're nobody and nothing.
I'm just getting sick and tired of people blaming other people on the forum for changes. I seriously cannot understand how people can think for one second that's how businesses run.Edited by steveb16_ESO46 on July 17, 2014 9:36AM2 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
I can see how this would be a bonus. But on the flip side, this change took me from hoping they make enough money to keep the game going, to not really caring if they keep the game going.
And honestly about the only reason i still log on and advance is because they said it was the first step. So Im willing to wait and see.4 -
Lunerdog✭✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
I can see how this would be a bonus. But on the flip side, this change took me from hoping they make enough money to keep the game going, to not really caring if they keep the game going.
And honestly about the only reason i still log on and advance is because they said it was the first step. So Im willing to wait and see.
But the bigger picture is that the number of people staying or coming back to the game because it got a bit easier will far out weigh the number of people leaving because of it.
And before the proof and numbers crowd start bleating, the fact that Zen have done it is proof enough.2 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
Sure but it seems there's not enough of you to keep the lights on, at least as far as Zen think. Like i've said before - people who aren't happy with this change need to cancel their sub and provide via /feedback and emails to marketing the reasons. And I don't mean this in an 'F-off' way.
They respond to their metrics not forum posters. They won't care about your opinion or happiness so long as you are giving them money. Like with the recent changes - if enough people stop giving them money for clearly expressed reasons that give context to their metrics then as a business they will respond.
The response might be - we cannot afford to keep a minority happy but you never know.
For me I think they should be providing more challenging group content with incentives to run them. But until they balance classes and builds it is impossible to develop balanced content.
I suspect the real problem they have is that there's so much work to do to get this game into a proper state that a lot of people will just say - 'well i'll resub when it looks like they've got their act together.'
There's only so many gaming hours in the day and if people wander off into one of the many competitor games then it's going to be really hard to get them back.
IMO it was a catastrophic mistake to release the game in the state it was in the first place and I doubt they will be able to row back from it.
EDITED TO ADD:
It doesn't matter whether or not other games released in similar conditions (although in my experience this is by far the worst.) ESO is not competing against other games in their early release state - it's competing against every other MMO.
I found myself playing ArcheAge alpha a lot (which is in far better shape than ESO is now) and Star Trek Online because in it's mature state it's developed into a very good game. Good enough for me to take a lifetime sub in the recent sale and that's going to make it hard for ESO to win me back.
But I hope it does because there's so much to like about ESO. If I was offered a lifetime sub for £200 I'd take it.Edited by steveb16_ESO46 on July 17, 2014 11:29AM2 -
Syntse✭✭✭✭✭And what do we have now? Vet zones are completely soloable. Dolmens, public delves, no groups required.
Like someone said, great that you are able to do so. I need at least one other when going against world boss already on vet 2 zone. Dolmens 4 persons is preferable and public delves goes maybe with 2. None of those I can solo. And if you say bosses, dolmens and delves are also easy mode? Then you really have good build.I'm no super hero, sorry to disappoint, I just have fun completing challenging content, if it's not challenging then it's boring to me. Not a hard concept to grasp I don't think, people like to be challenged.
Yet I'm sure that you have also build your char so that it is most effective and you most likely also have on level set items improved as much as you have been able. Same time saying you seek for challenge while trying to make your char already winning all the challenges.
Sure it would be joy for some people that every single henchmen small creature in the vet zones would have the same power as world boss. Actual boss of the quest would require minimum of 4 people group and maybe manage to win that fight after 30 minutes. This is of course one mentality I really have not figured out yet, why all content from mice to henchmen needs to be challenging, not enough that quest bosses, world bosses, dolmens, public dungeons, group dungeons are challenge.
Yes ZOS may have done back-flip on their saying that they will make this game challenging. Most likely after they have noticed decreasing population on vet and subs. Now I really hope that they will also do challenging content for those who seek the challenge even with their cookie cutter builds and legendary set gear.Syntse Dominion Khajiit Dragonknight Stamina Tank [50]
Ra'Syntse Dominion Khajiit Nightblade Magica DPS [50]
Syntselle Dominion Dark Elf Dragonknight Magica DPS [50]
Syntseus Dominion Imperial Templar Healer [50]
Syntsetar Dominion High Elf Sorcerer Magica DPS [50]
Friar Tuktuk Daggerfall Brenton Templar Healer [50]
Syntseyn Ebonheart Brenton Nightblade Magica DPS [50]2 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭The argument that it must be right because ZoS did it is getting a bit tired. Especially with their record of getting things right. Besides the OP wasn't about whether it was right or wrong to do it. It's about the scale of it. The change goes against there own policy of 'gently does it'4
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fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Let me say at the outset it's not my intent to be rude, far less to be a troll, so please don't read any snide comments into what I'm going to say.steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »For me I think they should be providing more challenging group content with incentives to run them. But until they balance classes and builds it is impossible to develop balanced content.
I see this kind of comment a lot and it seems to me it's at the core of the disconnect between two incompatible sections of all MMO playerbases.
The key word is incentive, it is after all the motivation someone has that makes them do anything, nice or otherwise.
I'm a confirmed non-grouper.
By which I mean I don't want to have to group in order to level up or progress my character's development. I 'group up' only when I have to or if the content is fun, if the number of times I 'have to' in order to play the content I want to exceeds a threshold I'll stop playing: FFXIV V2 crossed that some time ago, while WOW, Rift, LOTRO etc. haven't, and even FFXI is now perfectly fine for me given the changes made in recent times.
This is why VR content to me was unacceptable and the reason I'd have let my sub. lapse. I don't want to have to 'group up' to level up, there's no incentive that's persuade me to. And I expect there are a large number of players like me, it's why ZOS changed course and abandoned their 'vision'.
So as I see it there's an unbridgeable gap between those like you who want to 'group up' and who think it's simply down to 'rewards', ie. loot, and those like me for whom loot has no interest whatsoever, per se. To me gear is a means to an end, if I can progress naked I'm happy to do so, putting phat lewt into dungeons is no incentive at all for me to endure it.
The group content I DO like are the open world 'ad hoc' multi-player content like Dolmens, bosses etc. I don't have to put up with being told I suck, I don't have to listen to how bad my build is, I don't have to have completed certain achievements before being allowed to play .. I don't have to put up with group crap!
In Rift I love zone events, in GW2 I love the same thing, especially the dragon fights, in FFXIV I loved FATEs before they degenerated due to silly design decisions, etc.
With 'friends' group content is fun, with PUGs it can be but more often than not it's a pain I prefer to avoid. There's no incentive you can think of that'll persuade me to run group content on a frequent or regular basis, far, FAR less as a means simply to 'level up'.Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on July 17, 2014 11:35AM0 -
MrMT✭✭✭i simply don't understand why people are complaining.
If you want it harder, take off your gear. Simple as that.3 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭Zos did it because they felt they had to. 'Gently does it' doesn't cut it when subs come up for renewal every month and people with 6 month subs are cancelling their renewals.
Then you have as a business to do something immediately. And they have. Will it have the intended effect? We don't know yet. But no business, particularly one with such a heavy investment, can sit by and watch customers bleed away.
It's an emergency response that will hopefully get finessed and modified over the coming months. But whatever happens - the days of Hard-mode VR are gone forever and good riddance.
People who don't like that have exactly the same choice the rest of us had. Whether or not to keep our subs going because that is the only thing that matters to them.1 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
I can see how this would be a bonus. But on the flip side, this change took me from hoping they make enough money to keep the game going, to not really caring if they keep the game going.
And honestly about the only reason i still log on and advance is because they said it was the first step. So Im willing to wait and see.
But the bigger picture is that the number of people staying or coming back to the game because it got a bit easier will far out weigh the number of people leaving because of it.
And before the proof and numbers crowd start bleating, the fact that Zen have done it is proof enough.
You cant actually make that assumption yet. So far the only thing that has been proven is that they thought enough people left because of then difficulty that it made business sense to change it.
Edited by vyndral13preub18_ESO on July 17, 2014 11:49AM0 -
Larira✭✭✭✭i simply don't understand why people are complaining.
If you want it harder, take off your gear. Simple as that.
The whinig threads that there lots of naked people running around will be funny because it destroys the immersion. The same thing was in WoW. There were naked Nightelves dancing in Stormwind and IF. And there were many whine threads in the forums about this. Especially on RP servers.
Greetings1 -
Lunerdog✭✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
I can see how this would be a bonus. But on the flip side, this change took me from hoping they make enough money to keep the game going, to not really caring if they keep the game going.
And honestly about the only reason i still log on and advance is because they said it was the first step. So Im willing to wait and see.
But the bigger picture is that the number of people staying or coming back to the game because it got a bit easier will far out weigh the number of people leaving because of it.
And before the proof and numbers crowd start bleating, the fact that Zen have done it is proof enough.
You cant actually make that assumption yet. So far the only thing that has been proven is that they thought enough people left because of then difficulty that it made business sense to change it.
I don't disagree, it may be early days yet, but the fact that I'm now seeing more people in the Vet zones leads me to believe Zen did the right thing.
1 -
Syntse✭✭✭✭✭
Oh man, the amount of naked people running around in open beta. Glad this game is subscription based.Syntse Dominion Khajiit Dragonknight Stamina Tank [50]
Ra'Syntse Dominion Khajiit Nightblade Magica DPS [50]
Syntselle Dominion Dark Elf Dragonknight Magica DPS [50]
Syntseus Dominion Imperial Templar Healer [50]
Syntsetar Dominion High Elf Sorcerer Magica DPS [50]
Friar Tuktuk Daggerfall Brenton Templar Healer [50]
Syntseyn Ebonheart Brenton Nightblade Magica DPS [50]2 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »Zos did it because they felt they had to. 'Gently does it' doesn't cut it when subs come up for renewal every month and people with 6 month subs are cancelling their renewals.
Then you have as a business to do something immediately. And they have. Will it have the intended effect? We don't know yet. But no business, particularly one with such a heavy investment, can sit by and watch customers bleed away.
It's an emergency response that will hopefully get finessed and modified over the coming months. But whatever happens - the days of Hard-mode VR are gone forever and good riddance.
People who don't like that have exactly the same choice the rest of us had. Whether or not to keep our subs going because that is the only thing that matters to them.
Then why is medium armour still under powered. Why are NB's still broken. Why are Templars no good for anything but healing in trials. Your argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny when you see how slow they have been to address (arguably) even bigger issues than vet difficulty.2 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭The argument that it must be right because ZoS did it is getting a bit tired. Especially with their record of getting things right. Besides the OP wasn't about whether it was right or wrong to do it. It's about the scale of it. The change goes against there own policy of 'gently does it'
gently is subjective. the fact is they knew they had to do something. Not because you me or anyone else argued on the forums. But because they obviously were losing massive amounts of customers.
so if you care about the game you understand why this was needed. If you simply want to look at things from a personal perspective and care nothing for the long term health of the game then thats your prerogative..
but its done now , it was needed so eat it or do what other folk were doing which was unsub and tell them why. If enough folk of a similar point of view do likewise they will revert to the original state. they operate on numbers not opinions on the forum.
Edited by hamon on July 17, 2014 12:32PM3 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭The argument that it must be right because ZoS did it is getting a bit tired. Especially with their record of getting things right. Besides the OP wasn't about whether it was right or wrong to do it. It's about the scale of it. The change goes against there own policy of 'gently does it'
gently is subjective. the fact is they knew they had to do something. Not because you me or anyone else argued on the forums. But because they obviously were losing massive amounts of customers.
so if you care about the game you understand why this was needed. If you simply want to look at things from a personal perspective and care nothing for the long term health of the game then thats your prerogative..
but its done now , it was needed so eat it or do what other folk were doing which was unsub and tell them why. If enough folk of a similar point of view do likewise they will revert to the original state. they operate on numbers not opinions on the forum.
Telling people to unsub if they don't like it is as offensive, if not more offensive than telling people to L2P. Neither of which I think help the debate.
I do care about the game. I've enjoyed my time here but then I'm probably a bit of an oddball because I like levelling. Its not a grind t me or a means to an end. It is the game. Therefore I have more to lose by mistakes being made to the part of the game I love and the reason I play it. I'm eager to see what's coming but I hope whatever it is, is based on sound decision making. Something which I've not been overly impressed with so far.2 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
I can see how this would be a bonus. But on the flip side, this change took me from hoping they make enough money to keep the game going, to not really caring if they keep the game going.
And honestly about the only reason i still log on and advance is because they said it was the first step. So Im willing to wait and see.
But the bigger picture is that the number of people staying or coming back to the game because it got a bit easier will far out weigh the number of people leaving because of it.
And before the proof and numbers crowd start bleating, the fact that Zen have done it is proof enough.
You cant actually make that assumption yet. So far the only thing that has been proven is that they thought enough people left because of then difficulty that it made business sense to change it.
I don't disagree, it may be early days yet, but the fact that I'm now seeing more people in the Vet zones leads me to believe Zen did the right thing.
Even then what does that prove? The only thing you can say is there are more people in VR content. That doesn't actually prove anything.
For example, most people in this thread seem to say, more people in vet content, that means more people are coming back!!! Really? What if it just means the same people who were already playing lower level content just flipped back to their higher level character. Then the change actually had no meaningful change on the bottom line at all.
Buy really i suppose it doesn't really matter one way or the other. It is nothing we can see right now and as you say we wont really be able to see any trend for months. The increase now is all the people who were blocked by difficulty before. Once they get through it will be interesting to he how the number of players in VR content stabilizes.3 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭The argument that it must be right because ZoS did it is getting a bit tired. Especially with their record of getting things right. Besides the OP wasn't about whether it was right or wrong to do it. It's about the scale of it. The change goes against there own policy of 'gently does it'
gently is subjective. the fact is they knew they had to do something. Not because you me or anyone else argued on the forums. But because they obviously were losing massive amounts of customers.
so if you care about the game you understand why this was needed. If you simply want to look at things from a personal perspective and care nothing for the long term health of the game then thats your prerogative..
but its done now , it was needed so eat it or do what other folk were doing which was unsub and tell them why. If enough folk of a similar point of view do likewise they will revert to the original state. they operate on numbers not opinions on the forum.
Telling people to unsub if they don't like it is as offensive, if not more offensive than telling people to L2P. Neither of which I think help the debate.
I do care about the game. I've enjoyed my time here but then I'm probably a bit of an oddball because I like levelling. Its not a grind t me or a means to an end. It is the game. Therefore I have more to lose by mistakes being made to the part of the game I love and the reason I play it. I'm eager to see what's coming but I hope whatever it is, is based on sound decision making. Something which I've not been overly impressed with so far.
i,m not telling you to unsub. I'm informing you on how to affect change rather than whine. The obvious loss of subs due to the previous state of vet mode prompted them to act. so unless folk who seem so upset they feel they need to keep on moaning about it do likewise and vote with thier wallets , and do so in large enough numbers to cause ZOS to feel it was a mistake, then by definition it wasn't a mistake.
thats not offensive thats just simple logic. Loss of money/customers caused the change. loss of money/customers would make them see the change as a mistake.
however if the change was in fact a good move and it isn't costint them money and is even rescuing some subs. then whining on about it is not just futile but also putting personal opinion ahead of the health of the game.
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theyancey✭✭✭✭✭
✭I want to see this content stay at a level that all players can enjoy. Perhaps some kind of difficulty slider is needed. Insane for the snobs, normal for most, and easy mode for n00bs or for people with various physical limitations like me.2 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭'Difficulty sliders' can't work in an MMO, two people can't fight the same mob if they're not playing to the same rules.1