Why you are upset with impulse groups!

galiumb16_ESO · July 2014

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

Well to be fair, you actually could easily replace an entire impulse raid with a simple multiboxing script.

Looking at the responses in this thread, that's the cause of most people's ire (overly simplistic, boring gameplay that is)

It is more then that, most experienced MMO'ers see where things are going.

An impulse spamming group requires a mediocre leader and a bunch of folks that can follow simple directions. This kind of low skill bar for play makes it easy to grow and thus the solution for all adversity is to just get bigger.

Do not play better, adjust tactics, change builds, no, just keep the same static play style with more people. It is basically a snowball until a server runs out of people willing to stack.

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO · July 2014

In another topic one player suggested disabled AOE for ONE campaign. Only AOE would be from siege equipment.

I don't know how about you, but I would love to see PVP with more tactics, flanking longer fight times. I would love it!

I would really like to see one campaign like that for testing purpose.

Just to see if it is more fun than AOE fest in normal campaigns.

pitdemon_ESO · July 2014

quakedawg_ESO wrote: »

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

Well to be fair, you actually could easily replace an entire impulse raid with a simple multiboxing script.

Looking at the responses in this thread, that's the cause of most people's ire (overly simplistic, boring gameplay that is)

To be honest, with that same argument you can replace any class with a script. I can make one to spam crystal fragment like no other on a Sorc. His DK buddy to spam talons. Throw in Emperor buffs and I don't even need a keyboard! Apparently that takes skill for some people to pull off. Keep in mind not all bomb groups are created equal. Some run much different than people realize.

In summary, everyone is entitled to their opinion though. If you find a style boring, I strongly suggest not playing that way. If you find a style simplistic, feel free to find another.

There is ALWAYS going to be guilds who find ways to kill you in whatever manner. This will ALWAYS result in a niche of players complaining and using the 'skill card' as if that makes them sleep better at night.

*shrug*

You don't know that much about scripting do you?

You would require 2 scripts max for a multiboxing impulse raid. One for ultimate generation and speed buff spam, the other for impulse and heal spam and damage shield/defensive buff stacking.

I mean there are 2 modes to that gameplay, pre-engagement, and engagement. The order of buttons pressed would not and will not change, ever.

Attempting to compare an impulse group to actual skilled gameplay is ludicrous.

Now I'm not saying that it would be technologically impossible to implement a decent 1v1 script, but you would need pixel detection, aimbotting, and literally thousands of If/then statements to maintain anything but the most rudimentary AI.

eliisra · July 2014

ThyIronFist wrote: »

I see a lot of people suggesting negate, we often try and negate impulse trains... oh wait, that´s right, they all use immovable so our negate is pretty much useless.

Yeah, that's the problem with the trains. There is no means or skills available to counter them. Only way to stop them is bringing a bigger impulsebatswarmbarrierblob.

That's also why I hate them so much. It forces the rest of us to use the same stupid tactic. I really hate playing elemental train, pressing one or two buttons, so boring and it makes me feel pathetic.

But than again, there's also bad Impulse trains. They die very fast, because they aren't buffstacking. So It's not the actual Impulse that's destroying PvP, it's the fact that you can be immune to pretty much everything when stacking. Than literately run people down without having to target anything.

SBR_QuorTek · July 2014

It really doesn't take that much skill to zerg around... but cordination between some siege groups and one of the groups zerging around in the area do... there is aspects to be pointed out.

But saying it takes high skill to perform it even with TS or other voIP inbound.. it is not it make it even easier with TS going on.

Been part of both sides of the fence as it is.. both as being in siege of keeps and being in the group performing the zerg, but the skill line in it is cordinating with other groups that is on different tasks if any to make sure area is either safe or being beaten down/putting pressure onto the opposing forces is another thing as in multiple things working in a whole.

But doing it solely as the only thing one ever do... sorry... have to say to some of those people they need to have a more wide span in things... personally I like being in zerg though now and then... but you get bored after a while especially if it is ONLY running around and not even trying for scrolls or keeps... but the kind of groups that does all the different stuff at the same time.. is fun though and actually do make a point to doing it now and then.... or when at current point that would be the tactical advantage even though it is easy to do.

So many things out there, I recommend people to use a widespread of ways though to keep away being to simple minded

Gecko · July 2014

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO wrote: »

In another topic one player suggested disabled AOE for ONE campaign. Only AOE would be from siege equipment.

I don't know how about you, but I would love to see PVP with more tactics, flanking longer fight times. I would love it!

I would really like to see one campaign like that for testing purpose.

Just to see if it is more fun than AOE fest in normal campaigns.

That or have a campaign where the aoe caps are removed. That is the mechanic the zerg balls are exploiting. If you remove the aoe caps, a small coordinated group could kill them. Currently, there is no real way to do enough damage to a group of 24 when the damage gets randomly spread among 6 people in the group. The heals just soak it up. It would make bunching up in a small ball more of a suicide move really.

Removing aoe caps would make things a little more interesting, the only big problem would be getting into a keep, but there are ways to get that to work too.

Columba · July 2014

While I agree that this mindless nonsense is making pvp boring, don't remove the aoe cap. Increase it. Removing it creates all sorts of other annoying problems and will be just as mindless.

apostate9 · July 2014

NookyZooky wrote: »

well, its pretty f***** annoying, when all your enemies do, is clump together, and spam their pathetic, gods forsaken pulsar the whole time:/ some of us like small skirmishes and 1v1s. I myself wont even charge into battle most of the time. ill wait for an enemy to walk out, then jump them, because I have a lot more fun in smaller fights than huge gigantic fights. but when all your enemies want to do, is clump together and do..... that... as ill call it... its frustraiting for some of us. If that's the way you want to play, cool. I don't like it, but im not going to try to be one of those "you cant do it" people.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

apostate9 · July 2014

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Impulse isn't the problem.

It's morph Pulsar is.

I would agree with everyone above. AoE in PvP screws this game.
All AoE should be capped to 1 target at the time. All. From Pucturing Sweep, Nova, to Standard of Might and Talons, to Impulse/Pulsar, to Carve and Bow AoE.

With that alone going to fix the imbalance between Stamina and Magicka builds in PvP. As as Stamina I do not mean the AoE bow wielder, but those who want to fight with swords, wear full set of heavy armour and smash each other to pieces.

I find myself more and more, thinking that War of Roses has better PvP than TESO nowadays.

Something that wasn't the case in beta, because none had those high level abilities, since we were all around level 10-16. And all the issues with PvP at Cyrodiil occured after the big untested, in beta, power creep of the late level abilities.

Like Impulse/Pulsar, Vampire Ultimate, high Magicka/Spell power Standard of Might drop with Ultimate reduction to make it spamable etc.

This is quite possibly the dumbest idea I've seen on the Internet all morning.

Morvul · July 2014

eliisra wrote: »

Yeah, that's the problem with the trains. There is no means or skills available to counter them. Only way to stop them is bringing a bigger impulsebatswarmbarrierblob.

(...)

But than again, there's also bad Impulse trains. They die very fast, because they aren't buffstacking. So It's not the actual Impulse that's destroying PvP, it's the fact that you can be immune to pretty much everything when stacking. Than literately run people down without having to target anything.

thats exactly it!
the problem is not sooo much in Impulse and the supporting skills used for these trains.
The problem is in the AoE caps that make these trains possible to exist in the first place.
@ZOS_brianwheeler, make those AoE caps go away please...

quakedawg_ESO · July 2014

The 'remove the aoe cap' petition has been signed!

IcyDeadPeople · July 2014

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Because it's easy mode?

All you guys are doing is running around spamming heals to build up ultimates and running over everything using ults ( being one button wonders ). Because of the low area cap it's abusing the system as your safe until you meet a Zerg bigger than you, it's a numbers game atm.

Two ways to combat it..

1. Remove area cap
2. Players who don't Zerg ball quit the game so the zergballers dont have anyone to kill.

Sadly I can see the second option happening before the first one.

In my view the "zergs" are the more disorganized groups with large numbers, mostly pick-up groups, or some mix of guild groups and PUGs. The defining feature of a zerg is that they are not coordinating tactics in a smart way, just relying on superior numbers.

Sometimes these large groups of randoms get owned by smaller, organized guild groups coordinating with good leadership on voice comms and using smarter tactics. It's not easy to defeat a much larger force, but it is quite possible even with the AoE caps.

I've had the opportunity to participate in a number of battles between two organized guild groups on opposing factions, resulting in some of the most fun and challenging combat gameplay I've experienced in this game. I've also had a lot of fun participating in skirmishes between very small groups.

If you think you can just spam impulse and win, I encourage you to try it. I've been fortunate to group together with some skilled PVP group leaders who have succeeded against overwhelming odds, and I know what they did was absolutely not easy.

Bramir · July 2014

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Because it's easy mode?

All you guys are doing is running around spamming heals to build up ultimates and running over everything using ults ( being one button wonders ). Because of the low area cap it's abusing the system as your safe until you meet a Zerg bigger than you, it's a numbers game atm.

Two ways to combat it..

1. Remove area cap
2. Players who don't Zerg ball quit the game so the zergballers dont have anyone to kill.

Sadly I can see the second option happening before the first one.

In my view the "zergs" are the disorganized groups with large numbers getting owned by smaller, organized guild groups coordinating with good leadership on voice comms and using smarter tactics.

I've had the opportunity to participate in a number of battles between two organized guild groups on opposing factions, resulting in some of the most fun and challenging combat gameplay I've experienced in this game.

If you think you can just spam impulse and win, try it. I've been fortunate to group together with some very skilled PVP group leaders who have succeeded against overwhelming odds, and I know what they did was absolutely not easy.

Zerg ballers continue to give themselves way too much credit...didn't expect anything less, but it still makes me laugh...

Rylana · July 2014

Armor active abilities should require a majority of your armor being of that type.

In other words to even use Immovable you should have to have at least four heavy equipped.

ThyIronFist · July 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Armor active abilities should require a majority of your armor being of that type.

In other words to even use Immovable you should have to have at least four heavy equipped.

This. ^

Halrloprillalar · July 2014

A single negate won't change anything, but if you stack several negates, banner/talons/nova/veil/swarm... it can get pretty interesting.

Xsorus · July 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Armor active abilities should require a majority of your armor being of that type.

In other words to even use Immovable you should have to have at least four heavy equipped.

Should be 5 in my opinion

frwinters_ESO · July 2014

Crogster wrote: »

I personally lead a bomb group / impusle group (whatever you want to call it) where we are very tight together, use aoe and and synergise our builds to have different aoe damage spells and ultimates. Only people on teamspeak are allowed in the group and this is why we win because we stay together and use spells / ultimates at the right time. When we fight another organised raid that spreads out they can really hurt as we cant centre our damage but if you are a random group with no co-ordination you will just run in and die to both groups should it be a AOE group or an organised single target raid. You moan that these AOE damage groups kill you but it just because you are not a good unit where you play everyday and speak on a mic without having to type. Using ultimates like soul assualt and single target spells over barriers and group orientated spells (that require you to be close togethe)r what hope do you think you will have?

Its like Emperor Farming. Its not against the rules, but its kind of a dishonorable thing to do. You didn't earn Emperor the proper way. Doing this will just open up hundreds of people just....doing this because there will be little ways to defeat it. Every person same spec same thing run around impulse impulse imoulse to face the other impulse group and we see who lives.

That is not the spirit of PvP. It may be fun to roll train over your enemies and watch that kill counter go up and the AP pile up, but its not real PvP. The skill is, click your button, follow the leader, potion, repeat. Your like lemmings on the battlefield.

Xsorus · July 2014

My personal favorite part is always

"I personally lead a bomb group / impusle group" then they go on about how much skill is involved in leading this Impulse Group

Just for future reference, if you're leading an impulse group right now..Your entire job can be replaced with this

quakedawg_ESO · July 2014

For a long time I've felt if Dev is going to do anything it will be to push Immovable up the heavy armor ladder. Not a terrible idea.

Agrippa_Invisus · July 2014

quakedawg_ESO wrote: »

For a long time I've felt if Dev is going to do anything it will be to push Immovable up the heavy armor ladder. Not a terrible idea.

Too bad the rest of the heavy armor skill line is in desperate need of buffing.

Ardeni · July 2014

quakedawg_ESO wrote: »

For a long time I've felt if Dev is going to do anything it will be to push Immovable up the heavy armor ladder. Not a terrible idea.

That would not matter since it is incredibly easy to level the skill to maximum level in any case.

As for the topic, I can't say that I hate these aoe spamming groups. I personally would never find any joy in them, having been in some while playing GW2. There simply is no joy in spamming a couple of skills and completely eliminating single player skills in my opinion. The "train"-gameplay gives no opportunities for moments of personal success. Whether you succeed or not depends on the group, always.

The trains are not invincible, either. They have to break up a little bit when they're using siege weapons. They also always have some not-so-advanced players which can be killed from the behind. Sometimes you can also grip people out from the train or use siege to split them, if they aren't very experienced. In this game it is also easily possible to run away from the train all together using sneak even if you can't defend a keep against one. Personally I've seen these groups of players being destroyed in keeps many times even by smaller groups, though.

Bramir · July 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

quakedawg_ESO wrote: »

For a long time I've felt if Dev is going to do anything it will be to push Immovable up the heavy armor ladder. Not a terrible idea.

Too bad the rest of the heavy armor skill line is in desperate need of buffing.

Yeah, but heavy armor has the best active ability by far.

It should not be possible to have the heavy armor active and the full effect of all the light armor passives at the same time. As several people have suggested recently, the best solution is to require 5 pieces to use an active armor ability of a given type.

Orizuru · July 2014

Bramir wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

quakedawg_ESO wrote: »

For a long time I've felt if Dev is going to do anything it will be to push Immovable up the heavy armor ladder. Not a terrible idea.

Too bad the rest of the heavy armor skill line is in desperate need of buffing.

Yeah, but heavy armor has the best active ability by far.

It should not be possible to have the heavy armor active and the full effect of all the light armor passives at the same time. As several people have suggested recently, the best solution is to require 5 pieces to use an active armor ability of a given type.

I think Immovable needs a more heavy-handed treatment. Allow it to stay low on the tree, and allow it to continue to work with any armor equipped. However, make it stop all regen 100% while the effect is active. Force players to choose between resource regen and immovability. This way the pvp players still have access to a great ability to help them deal with situations that would kill them without giving them a chance to fight back, but make them choose to give up resource regeneration every time they use it to prevent the constant spamming.

bugulu · July 2014

What's funny with Impulse spamming groups are their lack of individual thinking and ability to play without their zergballs. We have successfully killed plenty of those zergballs by taking out stragglers who fall behind and you can see in their character how they panic, keep mashing the Impulse button thinking that it's actually gonna hurt and then dying a horrible death a couple of seconds later.

When you manage to get a drop on one of these members when they are trying to reach a zergball, you are pretty much guaranteed a free kill.

I don't see Impulse spamming groups as a problem in open field battles, it does get bit problematic though when you are inside a keep and the area where you can move is limited and thus harder to spread out.

heng14rwb17_ESO · July 2014

Impulse train is a major winning factor in war.
I love impulse train.

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO · July 2014

Removing caps imho does not help anything. Instead of 24 player trains there will be 4 man trains killing large numbers of players.

I really don't get why people are so fond of AOE spells. It is the biggest sh*t ever introduced in PvP.

It's like starting up Battlefield and EVERYBODY is using granade launchers. (fun...)

I am getting old or something, but I really prefer standard military tactics involving possitioning on the battlefield flanking at the right time etc.

ESO had insanly great potential to make Cyrodiil like battlefield on Total War games. (that strategy) unfortunately none of this can happen thanks to OP AOE abilities.

Tintinabula · July 2014

Its...sort of reducing everything in PvP to the least common denominator..ya know?..Its like war games but handing everyone a nuke.

Who cares about your tanks and troops..I have a nuke. At the end of Civilization its who ever has the most nukes wins. and...sadly that's what these zerg fests are becoming....a little boring

Xsorus · July 2014

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO wrote: »

Removing caps imho does not help anything. Instead of 24 player trains there will be 4 man trains killing large numbers of players.

I really don't get why people are so fond of AOE spells. It is the biggest sh*t ever introduced in PvP.

It's like starting up Battlefield and EVERYBODY is using granade launchers. (fun...)

I am getting old or something, but I really prefer standard military tactics involving possitioning on the battlefield flanking at the right time etc.

ESO had insanly great potential to make Cyrodiil like battlefield on Total War games. (that strategy) unfortunately none of this can happen thanks to OP AOE abilities.

Because we all played this little ole game called Dark Age of Camelot, that had incredibly powerful AOE, and let small mans take out large zergs, which controlled zerging in the game...and also lead to a fantastic group vs group meta that hasn't be rivaled by any game so far.

Gecko · July 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Because we all played this little ole game called Dark Age of Camelot, that had incredibly powerful AOE, and let small mans take out large zergs, which controlled zerging in the game...and also lead to a fantastic group vs group meta that hasn't be rivaled by any game so far.

^^^^^^^^^^This

It eliminated the advantage of large Zergs. In ESO, with zergballs, it is basically he with the biggest zerg will win most of the time. The zergballs work because with that many people stacked together, the damage is applied to 6 random people. It spreads the damage out enough that shields and heals EASILY compensate for it. If they were all taking the same damage, they would need to spread out in order to not all get killed exceedingly fast. It would make things more dynamic and allow for a greater use of tactics such as sending a group around in stealth to try to flank etc. .