The unbreakable CC

SBR_QuorTek · July 2014

PlagueMonk wrote: »

show previous quotes

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

Everyone can get out of the knockdown meaning stunned not able to attack at all in that case CC break work, but immobilized is another thing different thing meaning one is rooted one place and can't move away BUT still counter attack/defend.

Combination of a knock down + root = you can break the knockdown but will still be rooted, ergo you must fight back or have a counter to it, depending on what your goal in pvp is.

Left + right mouse button, have block ready just in case.. instantly use a knockback on the opponent and you have the time to either get some distance... since the root is only briefly or stand your ground... bit class and setup dependent.

What I read out from this... is that you are completely defenceless during this?

Every class can also acquire moves to be able to push away an enemy that has rooted you.. maybe that should be a part of the repetoire during combat... maybe replacing it with the 'blink blink' or something.

As it is, as it don't appear broken on my computer at all.. before for an instance gotten knocked down by an NPC for then taloned right after... can break the knockdown... but not the root, but then you just fight back from it.

On note there is multiple stuns and roots in this game, vs 1 and vs many

Anyhow this is just my two cents to the debate.

Edit:
If not good at blocking a good way to train it, is to create a tank toon, then you will learn for good.

This is all well and good but in the fast paced world of PvP combat we don't have 30 secs to react to all this in a calm and planned manner and have our ducks in a row. When I'm KD and then have a SoM popped on me and then taloned, I have LITERALLY 2-3 secs before I'm dead. Even if I break free I have still lost 2/3 of my health and die soon after. I can occasionally get away if I'm at full stamina but more often than not my death reads, "SoM, Talons, talons, talons, lash (or some other random attack to finish me off quickly).

It's a BS cheezeball combo.

You don't need 30 seconds.. 1-3 seconds would suffice you just got to have your defensive ability at hand and use it instantly... I think people are thinking there is a problem that does not exist, it is working as intended... as for fast paced.. it is pretty much the same reaction time for pve and pvp that is needed or those vr mobs will gut you.

Also if it is a personal problem for YOU and it really haunts you... add a skill that breaks attack by the enforcer permanently since there is no I WIN buttons except for some of those exploits that still persist in the game.

Ranting on the forum that one has been out performed with two moves though seem rather silly to me... since it can be countered in various ways.... or maybe light armor is not always the way.

SwampRaider · July 2014

I get knockdowned and talon'd frequently by Dk's. not even an unstopplable pot saves me

Mojomonkeyman · July 2014

Since this SBR_QuorTek guy still has no clue what people talking about, I assume he`s just not into pvp or swimming with the zerg, where chances are pretty small to experience said issue...

Let him spread his "wisdom", he might bother some day to read OP and realize, that this was tested, reproduced and reported by many experienced pvp players across various threads.

SBR_QuorTek · July 2014

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Since this SBR_QuorTek guy still has no clue what people talking about, I assume he`s just not into pvp or swimming with the zerg, where chances are pretty small to experience said issue...

Let him spread his "wisdom", he might bother some day to read OP and realize, that this was tested, reproduced and reported by many experienced pvp players across various threads.

It is all fine.. and yes I do PvP now and then.. both in zergs and on smaller scales and big scale take over keeps and more... yes I have been knocked down.. rooted.. as well... what I noticed.. I could get out of the knockdown/stun and fight back... and even now and then been able to push the enemy off.

In PvP first strike in many cases is the opportunity to beat down the enemy player and yet live... to avoid being knocked down... block the knock down... same with NBs jumping to you.. block will stop it... you can though still be rooted, but blocking the knock down gives you a couple of more moves to perform.

Expect the unexpected... you don't even need a shield to knock down or block someone.... but if a shield+1h is starting to charge against you, you would expect something that is going to happen.

ferzalrwb17_ESO · July 2014

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

It is all fine.. and yes I do PvP now and then.. both in zergs and on smaller scales and big scale take over keeps and more... yes I have been knocked down.. rooted.. as well... what I noticed.. I could get out of the knockdown/stun and fight back... and even now and then been able to push the enemy off.

Uhuh. You haven't experienced the bug(s) then. You either haven't been out there lately, haven't been out of a zerg lately or just haven't noticed.

There are many situations where you cannot break CC. It just doesn't work - it's bugged.

We can hope 1.3 fixes it I guess but I'm dreading 1.3. Absolutely dreading. The last 2 updates have been horrendous disasters and I don't expect this one to be any different.

Teargrants · July 2014

@‌SBR_QuorTek
Are you a reply bot or a real person? Cuz your posts just go off on tangents and ignore the specific issues that people are citing.

The bug occurs when knockdown/stun is applied followed immediately by a root. When that happens, you are unable to perform CC break because the engine sees you as rooted, which needs dodge roll to break out of. And you are also unable to dodge roll, because the engine sees you as knockdown/stunned which needs CC break to get out of. So there you are, stuck for the full duration of the CC + root, all skills grayed out, CC break not responding, and dodge not responding - just eating up all the dmg from your attacker as he gets a free kill. Might as well take a break and go make a sammich, cuz your character cannot perform any actions.

Hence, the current DK cheesemode standard: Invasion -> Talons -> [unbreakable stun lock] -> Flame Lash -> Flame Lash -> Flame Lash.

This is not working as intended, before this bug was introduced, you could simply CC break followed by dodge roll out of this situation.

Please actually take the time to read and comprehend the words in this post before replying with "just CC break or hold block, expect the unexpected".

Tintinabula · July 2014

Id like to know exactly what you would like DKs to do?
"cheese mode"?..
I never realized charging a target was "cheesemode" and I am soo sorry that locking a target with talons is so lame after charging you..Perhaps I should offer you tea and crumpets after using invasion and just hope you don't run away?

AND Flamelash when morphed can ONLY be used in succession with a free heal granted if we cast when you're...guess....yes..guess....IMMOBILIZED with talons!! Ta Daaa!!!

So lets make sure the "blame" is laid with the game...not the player.

bruceb14_ESO5 · July 2014

@SoulScream, same. Dealing with bugs, complaining at bugs and abuses that 'seem' to land on deaf ears is getting old. Proactive responses to clean up the game are needed.

Teargrants · July 2014

I think you misunderstood me. I don't expect DKs to do anything differently nor should they, because this is optimum for them. Invasion -> talons was always the good combo to use for sword & board DKs, nothing wrong with that. The 'cheesemode' part I refer to is solely because of the unbreakable CC/root bug that happens frequently.

Tintinabula · July 2014

Ok I'm sorry. I guess I feel just as frustrated and i'm not usually on the receiving end. I killed a sorc tonight terri fast and the first thing I wondered was if some other spell hadn't bugged out. :P

bruceb14_ESO5 · July 2014

I have wondered why I wasn't able to break out of some cc's.

pppontus · July 2014

Tintinabula wrote: »

Id like to know exactly what you would like DKs to do?
"cheese mode"?..
I never realized charging a target was "cheesemode" and I am soo sorry that locking a target with talons is so lame after charging you..Perhaps I should offer you tea and crumpets after using invasion and just hope you don't run away?

AND Flamelash when morphed can ONLY be used in succession with a free heal granted if we cast when you're...guess....yes..guess....IMMOBILIZED with talons!! Ta Daaa!!!

So lets make sure the "blame" is laid with the game...not the player.

Of course any DK would do this, it's not the players fault, but it should be fixed because it should be impossible to stack CC or this inevitably happens.

In the patch notes for 1.3 is that CC immunity now works against all types of CC so the Invasion->Talons move should not work again come August and then all the DKs (including mine) will need to deal with the opponents actually being able to fight back

If anyone wants to actually try this on the PTS I'm happy to help.

Tintinabula · July 2014

How hard is it to code that Invasion= Knockdown= cc break + talons = second cc break?
2 Two CC breaks should be required. They said in their original vision there would be no "immunities". I cant wait for immunity to shards knockdown after I've been taloned! Bring it on!

JackDaniell · July 2014

ZOS_MichelleA wrote: »

Hello, everyone. We are actively reading all your feedback, and encourage you to continue to share it with us, but we do ask that you please refrain from creating petition and protest organization threads on our forums. Neither allows for open, constructive discussion or exchange of ideas since most posts consist of "/signed" or "support." Instead, we ask that you offer recommendations, suggestions, or requests about topics you feel need change. In order to continue making improvements to our game, it’s important that we get details from you regarding why you like or dislike something.

We are leaving this thread open for discussion, but we've edited the post to remove the request for single-word responses. If you have any questions or concerns about this edit, or our community rules of conduct, please feel free to contact us. Thank you!

I as a representative of the PvP community recommend you fix this bug.

pppontus · July 2014

Tintinabula wrote: »

How hard is it to code that Invasion= Knockdown= cc break + talons = second cc break?
2 Two CC breaks should be required. They said in their original vision there would be no "immunities". I cant wait for immunity to shards knockdown after I've been taloned! Bring it on!

Nah, it really shouldn't require two breaks - they also said that it would not be possible to permanently stun/lock. Break + dodge costs a lot stamina, and is not a reasonable cost for 2 cheap abilities like Invasion + Talons.

I mean most weapon/class combos can't force you to break twice so there is no reason this should and if I understand it correctly you will be immune. Already today you are immune to CC for 4(?) seconds, but only to the same type of CC which makes Invasion+Talons possible.

Halrloprillalar · July 2014

Personally I think breakout should work on ALL cc (including roots).

SoulScream · July 2014

^ I agree

bruceb14_ESO5 · July 2014

Agreed

SBR_QuorTek · July 2014

I just have not experienced the issue is all.... again some of it COULD remain in a performance issue as well like server/client get 'overloaded' with information due to heavy player traffic in current area... latency, none known spikes.. FPS drop and server lag.

To be constructive:

A possible solution could be having a cooldown on when you can get knocked down/put off balance of maybe 5 to 10 seconds when it is player vs player situations, anyhow it is a constructive solution that would not impact on certain PvE situations that COULD cause a problem in that sector as well... so wont just yell nerf this or that just yet.

Ifthir_ESO · July 2014

Kirsika wrote: »

current DK cheesemode standard: Invasion -> Talons -> [unbreakable stun lock] -> Flame Lash -> Flame Lash -> Flame Lash.

sadly qft

Halrloprillalar · July 2014

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

I just have not experienced the issue is all.... again some of it COULD remain in a performance issue as well like server/client get 'overloaded' with information due to heavy player traffic in current area... latency, none known spikes.. FPS drop and server lag.

To be constructive:

A possible solution could be having a cooldown on when you can get knocked down/put off balance of maybe 5 to 10 seconds when it is player vs player situations, anyhow it is a constructive solution that would not impact on certain PvE situations that COULD cause a problem in that sector as well... so wont just yell nerf this or that just yet.

This issue is hardly ever brought up in PVE. We are talking about PVP. If you have not experienced it somehow (which I have no idea where you are playing then), please get in touch with a DK from an opposing faction to illustrate it for you.

I have a DK alt (AD) if you are interested.

SBR_QuorTek · July 2014

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

show previous quotes

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

I just have not experienced the issue is all.... again some of it COULD remain in a performance issue as well like server/client get 'overloaded' with information due to heavy player traffic in current area... latency, none known spikes.. FPS drop and server lag.

To be constructive:

A possible solution could be having a cooldown on when you can get knocked down/put off balance of maybe 5 to 10 seconds when it is player vs player situations, anyhow it is a constructive solution that would not impact on certain PvE situations that COULD cause a problem in that sector as well... so wont just yell nerf this or that just yet.

This issue is hardly ever brought up in PVE. We are talking about PVP. If you have not experienced it somehow (which I have no idea where you are playing then), please get in touch with a DK from an opposing faction to illustrate it for you.

I have a DK alt (AD) if you are interested.

I am a DK myself... well one of me is anyway... funny though its not even my main, my main is a NB.

I know perfectly well how the skills work and how they can affect people, chosing not to do certain things myself is my thing... as some diversity is needed or it get soo boring to play the friggen game... best weapon against a KD seem to be a simple block though, doesnt leave you safe from being rooted though.

If you change skills in PvP you would affect the PvE side as well of the game, regardless of whichever... add a cooldown to stuns/knockdowns and whichever being able to be done to a player character... so you knockdown once... but after that knock down and trying to knock down the opponent player again.. you would automiss for the next 5 to 10 seconds including knockdowns your friends do to the same target.

Keep in mind... it is not just a single class that is the problem... some stable stunlocks from various others as well.. some places you might need to dig a bit more deep than others, but they are there.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · July 2014

now I just want to know how

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

show previous quotes

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

I just have not experienced the issue is all.... again some of it COULD remain in a performance issue as well like server/client get 'overloaded' with information due to heavy player traffic in current area... latency, none known spikes.. FPS drop and server lag.

To be constructive:

A possible solution could be having a cooldown on when you can get knocked down/put off balance of maybe 5 to 10 seconds when it is player vs player situations, anyhow it is a constructive solution that would not impact on certain PvE situations that COULD cause a problem in that sector as well... so wont just yell nerf this or that just yet.

This issue is hardly ever brought up in PVE. We are talking about PVP. If you have not experienced it somehow (which I have no idea where you are playing then), please get in touch with a DK from an opposing faction to illustrate it for you.

I have a DK alt (AD) if you are interested.

I am a DK myself... well one of me is anyway... funny though its not even my main, my main is a NB.

I know perfectly well how the skills work and how they can affect people, chosing not to do certain things myself is my thing... as some diversity is needed or it get soo boring to play the friggen game... best weapon against a KD seem to be a simple block though, doesnt leave you safe from being rooted though.

If you change skills in PvP you would affect the PvE side as well of the game, regardless of whichever... add a cooldown to stuns/knockdowns and whichever being able to be done to a player character... so you knockdown once... but after that knock down and trying to knock down the opponent player again.. you would automiss for the next 5 to 10 seconds including knockdowns your friends do to the same target.

Keep in mind... it is not just a single class that is the problem... some stable stunlocks from various others as well.. some places you might need to dig a bit more deep than others, but they are there.

are you saying you should be able to permastun mobs in pve?

Poxheart · July 2014

Kirsika wrote: »

@‌SBR_QuorTek
The bug occurs when knockdown/stun is applied followed immediately by a root. When that happens, you are unable to perform CC break because the engine sees you as rooted, which needs dodge roll to break out of. And you are also unable to dodge roll, because the engine sees you as knockdown/stunned which needs CC break to get out of. So there you are, stuck for the full duration of the CC + root, all skills grayed out, CC break not responding, and dodge not responding - just eating up all the dmg from your attacker as he gets a free kill. Might as well take a break and go make a sammich, cuz your character cannot perform any actions.

Hence, the current DK cheesemode standard: Invasion -> Talons -> [unbreakable stun lock] -> Flame Lash -> Flame Lash -> Flame Lash.

What you describe does not happen 100% of the time. There have been many occasions when I have used invasion and followed up with talons on a knocked down target and they have broken out.

There have been other times when I've been rooted w/o having been knocked down, yet still can't dodge even with a full bar of stamina. This has also happened to others that I group with.

Xsorus · July 2014

knockdown + talons doesn't always work.

Just like you don't need Knockdown + Talon to cause the unbreakable CC.

In fact I don't think Roots have anything to do with it at all, Because I've been knocked down plenty of times, and not been able to break the CC.

SBR_QuorTek · July 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

now I just want to know how
show previous quotes

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

I just have not experienced the issue is all.... again some of it COULD remain in a performance issue as well like server/client get 'overloaded' with information due to heavy player traffic in current area... latency, none known spikes.. FPS drop and server lag.

To be constructive:

A possible solution could be having a cooldown on when you can get knocked down/put off balance of maybe 5 to 10 seconds when it is player vs player situations, anyhow it is a constructive solution that would not impact on certain PvE situations that COULD cause a problem in that sector as well... so wont just yell nerf this or that just yet.

This issue is hardly ever brought up in PVE. We are talking about PVP. If you have not experienced it somehow (which I have no idea where you are playing then), please get in touch with a DK from an opposing faction to illustrate it for you.

I have a DK alt (AD) if you are interested.

I am a DK myself... well one of me is anyway... funny though its not even my main, my main is a NB.

I know perfectly well how the skills work and how they can affect people, chosing not to do certain things myself is my thing... as some diversity is needed or it get soo boring to play the friggen game... best weapon against a KD seem to be a simple block though, doesnt leave you safe from being rooted though.

If you change skills in PvP you would affect the PvE side as well of the game, regardless of whichever... add a cooldown to stuns/knockdowns and whichever being able to be done to a player character... so you knockdown once... but after that knock down and trying to knock down the opponent player again.. you would automiss for the next 5 to 10 seconds including knockdowns your friends do to the same target.

Keep in mind... it is not just a single class that is the problem... some stable stunlocks from various others as well.. some places you might need to dig a bit more deep than others, but they are there.

are you saying you should be able to permastun mobs in pve?

Stop being silly... sheesh...

Honfold · July 2014

This is getting pretty lame.

Shaggygaming · July 2014

@ZOS_TristanK Unbreakable CC

runagate · July 2014

It's not a particular combination of skills - much like the superspeed bug, it's a conscious exploit whereby certain combination of effects applied in very precisely timed ways somehow causes an "edge case" that makes something happen completely outside the intended effects of either.

When this happens, you're stuck unable to break free or move for up to 6 seconds sometimes, and even more odd sometimes you can move around but are stuck laying on your side, sliding around (much like lying down plus chain spam emotes worked in Asheron's Call).

Strangely, the superspeed bug happened to me through a combination of friendly-only spell effects in a large group, presumably also by some overlapping timing exception, and I'd never heard of that anywhere else - the normal exploit requires collusion with someone in an enemy Alliance. I'm really, really glad no one (not even I) knows how to replicate that. Wow, you are fast with that bug. I asked in zone how to get rid of it and the first suggestion (dying) didn't work but relogging did right away, should anyone else ever need to shed themselves of this.

Lorkhan · July 2014

Lowbei wrote: »

no aknowledgement of the issue and edits to remove the part they didnt like

thanks zos, your community manager is really good lol

this