Vahrokh wrote: »

TheAmu wrote: »

I really hope they add impossibly hard content to please hardcore gamers so they stop making the rest of us feel bad.

That way we can all be happy and stop being so horrible to each other.

Another who confuses somebody else's ability to play somewhat challenging content with them being "hardcore gamers".

No, they were just somewhat above average in a number of hopelessly bad players.

There's NO saving grace, no illusion: except for few "excusable cases" (stamina NBs to say one), those who failed is only because they played bad, not because the others were "hardcore" or "skilled".

@TheAmu wasn't trying to insult anyone there. In fact you just made him look like a saint and a prophet.

If you go with the theory that most people come here to complain about the game, then the poll is a clear sign ZOS did the right thing.

badmojo wrote: »

Like Kewljag said above, this change removed the strategy for me. Attacking a group of 3 used to be a big deal, I had to plan my approach, make no mistakes and observe my surroundings so that I didn't aggro any other mobs around the group.

Now, I just run in and slay them on auto pilot like it was in 1-50. I can go back to listening to audiobooks while I play this game, because my brain isn't needed(or stimulated) during the actual PvE combat.

Doing that "strategy" every single freakin trash mob in every single quest in every single zone gets to be incredibly tedious. I can see if they kept bosses difficult, and maybe some of the mobs leading up to the boss, but not EVERY single freakin trash mob. That is the absolute opposite of fun.

hk11 wrote: »

SK1TZ0FR3N1K wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

I would like an "Original Veteran" title for having played through the VR content as designed, before the whiners got it nerfed.

That being said, I personally do not like the changes, but I understand why others may like them.

The problem with the super easy VR levels is that you will end up with VR12s that do not have a mastery of their class, because they were able to level to the cap using a 2 skill rotation, standing in fire, never blocking.

Right now, if you group with VR12s, odds are that they aren't horrible players. They may have grinded anomalies, but for the most part they know how to block, and how to move out of the red circles.

Two weeks from now you will be grouped with VR12s trying to do VR level dungeons and getting wiped left and right because people will be playing like they did 1-50

This. You hit the nail on the head.

The block and move mechanics in ESO are kindergarten compared to other games, I wouldn't worry about people having issues with it.

---

You are joshing, aren't you????

spinedoc wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Like Kewljag said above, this change removed the strategy for me. Attacking a group of 3 used to be a big deal, I had to plan my approach, make no mistakes and observe my surroundings so that I didn't aggro any other mobs around the group.

Now, I just run in and slay them on auto pilot like it was in 1-50. I can go back to listening to audiobooks while I play this game, because my brain isn't needed(or stimulated) during the actual PvE combat.

Doing that "strategy" every single freakin trash mob in every single quest in every single zone gets to be incredibly tedious. I can see if they kept bosses difficult, and maybe some of the mobs leading up to the boss, but not EVERY single freakin trash mob. That is the absolute opposite of fun.

I understand what you're saying. But, to be perfectly honest it wasn't stressful or tedious to me. It actually enticed me to go explore more and get into more fights.

I find it tedious to kill the same 'trash mobs' over and over with little to no effort. I start to become lazy when the game doesn't punish laziness. To me, there's nothing worse than wandering around a large open world populated with dozens of different hostile creatures, except none pose any real threat to you.

I don't want to pull three or four groups of "trash mobs" together in order to face a challenge. I don't want a game where going 1 on 1 with a boss meant for a group is possible with my weak stamina nightblade build. I literally did that last night, it was lame. I fought the world boss for a few minutes, getting hit constantly, but slowly draining his health down. It was stupid, one hit would have killed me before, but now, it's possible to solo him.

I have to give it to ZOS, their change to VR sure made it easy for me to act like I'm with a group, even when I'm alone. I can revert to the tactics I use in group dungeons, when I have a healer and a tank, except it's just me. I hate that they did this to the game, but their goal was certainly accomplished.

I think a nerf was needed - I liked the challenge, but it could be slow and frustrating at times. But they do seem to have nerfed it quite a bit. It should be harder than pre VR, but perhaps ramped up more gradually. But, getting the balance right is tough in games like this. The tweaking will never end.

Yes the vet levels still have some challenges...people that want more challenge to it , just run lower armor and weapons...run no enchantments...etc....oh wait I forgot I'm supposed to change how I play and my character to match theirs....heaven forbid they have to change their builds.....but really if you want more challenge it's still there and easily made more difficult by just changing a few things around. And at least i see more people in zones v8+ now.

Syntse wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

I don't want to pull three or four groups of "trash mobs" together in order to face a challenge. I don't want a game where going 1 on 1 with a boss meant for a group is possible with my weak stamina nightblade build. I literally did that last night, it was lame. I fought the world boss for a few minutes, getting hit constantly, but slowly draining his health down. It was stupid, one hit would have killed me before, but now, it's possible to solo him.

Firstly I'm wondering why do you seek challenge from trash mobs? Shouldn't the boss or the room with boss in it be the challenge other stuff just minor obstacle along the way maybe with some mini-boss along the way?

Well nightblade seems to have pretty high survivability with all siphoing skills. May not do tons of damage but can keep him/herself alive pretty well. I've had much easier time with my NB stamina than with my DK stamina. So I don't see why NB would not be able to take some tough boss alone... takes time but can do it.

If I'm going to plow through hundreds of trash mobs, it should be worth doing. I don't want a repetitive game of wiping mob after mob, over and over to get to a few boss fights or group dungeons that are worth a damn. I want to walk out the front door of any building in Tamriel and face a possible threat.

The boss I'm talking about was one of those bosses in the world with the skull and crossbones marker, the ones that are supposed to be done by a group of people. Like I said, the fight lasted literally minutes, I didn't time it, but I'd guess I was fighting him for a good 3 minutes before some sorcerer came up when he had a bit of health left and finished him off for me. The entire time my health was going up and down like crazy. I almost died many times, but I feel like I should have been dead all of those times. My nightblades healing ability is not really that good. It's mostly heal over time. I just feel like if it was 16% harder, I wouldn't have been able to survive it.

Elad13 wrote: »

Yes the vet levels still have some challenges...people that want more challenge to it , just run lower armor and weapons...run no enchantments...etc....oh wait I forgot I'm supposed to change how I play and my character to match theirs....heaven forbid they have to change their builds.....but really if you want more challenge it's still there and easily made more difficult by just changing a few things around. And at least i see more people in zones v8+ now.

One part of this quote shows how much of a hypocrite you are: "....oh wait I forgot I'm supposed to change how I play and my character to match theirs....".
So, now, you get to play your way while everyone else has to change the way they play. Pot meet kettle.

FYI, I am saying to "use what the game gave you, to get through the content". You are saying, "use what I use, so I can play my way". Also, I play my way... Medium Armor, Stamina, Bow on bar 1, 2-hander on bar 2(better known as the 4 things forum goers say to never use, because I refuse to run around in a dress waving a big stick in the air), all green quality with store bought enchants. Don't need epic gear or higher until V12, imo,

The second part that stands out to me, shows just how little you know of the people who actually enjoyed the content the way it was(this doesn't include the dress wearing, stick waving, FotM crowd): "....heaven forbid they have to change their builds.....". Actually, everyone I know, was changing out their builds based on what type of boss mob/lesser boss mob they were fighting. If I personally came across a storm atronach, or a gargoyle, I yanked all the cc off my bars except one just in case, and threw on survival and dps skills before I ran in to kill it.

Granted, trash mobs could have been toned down a little to allow more people access through the content a little faster, but none of the lesser boss mobs/boss mobs should have been touched. That is my problem with the Nerf, if you want to run around roflpwn'ing the trash... more power to you. The lesser boss mobs/boss mobs should never have been touched. Here is an example: I'm out and about yesterday, and one of the random portals drop. I kill the 2 casters(1 healer, and 1 flame sorc), then the 2 melee(both assassin type mobs), then the 2nd round pops out... a scamp and a frost atronach. I am the only one around, so I figure I can test just how much things were changed. I snipe the scamp for an insta-kill, and fully prepared to die, I stand still and shoot the atronach. I never moved, dodged, or blocked. I live, it dies. Yes VR content. This wasn't possible before the Nerf. That is taking things too far.

Trash should be just that, trash. I can see a call to Nerf that... slightly. But, rounding up a group or two without knowing how to play your character, should drop you like a fly. Random events should be soloable, but make you work for it. I can see a slight Nerf to that. Land bosses should be group content...no if's, and's, or but's about it. Asking for it all to be nerfed is just asking to be given everything for nothing.

magnusnet wrote: »

You may be doing something wrong or have a visual issue (or a lot of lag). I mostly run out of aoe circles or triangles (archers) and I never take dmg.

Or may be in Europe. I normally can just run out, but sometimes if I'm slow to move I'm out on my client, but not at the server.

Darzil wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

You may be doing something wrong or have a visual issue (or a lot of lag). I mostly run out of aoe circles or triangles (archers) and I never take dmg.

Or may be in Europe. I normally can just run out, but sometimes if I'm slow to move I'm out on my client, but not at the server.

This is the most likely reason. There is a point during the animation where the damage is committed. Its not at the end of the animation either. If you dodge roll (in any direction and even if you still land in the red) you will not get damaged because the game cancels the damage when it records your dodge/roll. If you run the damage is still committed and it where you were server side not client side when its committed that determines if you get hit by it. Dodge/roll is always better then running out if you have the stam for it. Even better if you are a NB hit cloak as soon as you see the red and the whole thing will be cancelled. Damage, red and animation.

badmojo wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

Darzil wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

You may be doing something wrong or have a visual issue (or a lot of lag). I mostly run out of aoe circles or triangles (archers) and I never take dmg.

Or may be in Europe. I normally can just run out, but sometimes if I'm slow to move I'm out on my client, but not at the server.

This is the most likely reason. There is a point during the animation where the damage is committed. Its not at the end of the animation either. If you dodge roll (in any direction and even if you still land in the red) you will not get damaged because the game cancels the damage when it records your dodge/roll. If you run the damage is still committed and it where you were server side not client side when its committed that determines if you get hit by it. Dodge/roll is always better then running out if you have the stam for it. Even better if you are a NB hit cloak as soon as you see the red and the whole thing will be cancelled. Damage, red and animation.

Yeah, if the cloak actually works. I don't know how many times my own over time effects have canceled it out as soon as I try to use it, magicka be damned. I used to not mind so much when I would get the 15% stamina boost, but they changed that to not rely on the cloak, so now it's just a big waste of magicka for a split second of invisibility.

But, you're right, when it does work, it works amazingly to avoid the red circles and charged attacks.

I never have dots on my bar, at least until they fix your dots breaking cloak. The damage mitigation the cloak has is worth the sacrifice and the only reason I'm still in light armor is to ensure I always have enough magicka and magicka regen to recloak as often as I need to.

Yes because veteran ranks is boring with all of the tedious work to gain level. While it now feels like it should be a balance game not overly difficult game where you have to have the same build to survive. Yes I know how to block and roll and dodge and use all of the mechanics but those mechanics do not work if the enemies hitting you harder than you skills can do. Challenging games are not challenging because they are hard they are challenging because that person forms an opinion that they can beat it is worth it. If you do not think the game is challenging because of this change its not because it not challenging it is because you do not want it to be challenging.