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Kicked from pug trial group for my playstyle...
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vanillexhope✭✭✭I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, but as long as a group can get through a dungeon smoothly, I don't see the harm in some players not having the "perfect" spec. Now, if they are wiping again and again and think they can spot the issue (maybe the OP case is in fact the problem), then I think it becomes time to maybe do something about it.3 -
BrassRazoo✭✭✭✭✭I have a guy in guild that always asks for Trials with a really off-putting call-out.
Its like 'Looking for DPS for trials, must have TS, must know the fights, and whisper me with DPS/Stats/Gear"
It turns me off even wanting to do trials.
I mean, if you were in a guild, perhaps some are "good enough" to join, but how about you teach them the fights if you are so concerned, then there would be a larger pool of players to choose from in the end.
Perhaps then, others would teach others and so on.
5 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭BrassRazoo wrote: »I have a guy in guild that always asks for Trials with a really off-putting call-out.
Its like 'Looking for DPS for trials, must have TS, must know the fights, and whisper me with DPS/Stats/Gear"
It turns me off even wanting to do trials.
I mean, if you were in a guild, perhaps some are "good enough" to join, but how about you teach them the fights if you are so concerned, then there would be a larger pool of players to choose from in the end.
Perhaps then, others would teach others and so on.
This is exactly what the OP's raid leader did he offered advice and poilitely told him the failings of TESO's end game design. and Requested he switched specs. when the op did not have the rquired DPS spec to produce the DPS(because melee and heavy armor are busted) . he offered advice in a helpful way. there are A holes in ESO and elitist ones. But generaly people are nice the ones pugging to fill raid spots. Now the eletist that had one of his elitist buddiies quit the game or not show up on raid night that had to hit general to fill the spot will create another problem.3 -
kijima✭✭✭✭✭
✭Irrelevant of what build does what, it sounds like some people would be excluded because they don't min/max their build. He sounds like a *** to me.Been here since Feb 2014 - You'd think I'd be half reasonable at this game by now...3 -
grimsfield✭✭✭Irrelevant of what build does what, it sounds like some people would be excluded because they don't min/max their build. He sounds like a *** to me.
I guess some people just get hurt feelings easily. The way the guy responded to the OP in game seemed very respectful and polite to me. He even tried to offer the OP some advice.2 -
I will say up front I am not playing Vet content and such yet. It isn't what I want to do BUT I have played many other MMOs and done the end content.
As I was not there so I can't speak to how it all went down exactly and can speak only in generalities.
Pros: They did let the OP join the group, wiped more than one time (???) I believe and then kicked but told what they believed the issue to be.
Con: Stuff like this and the ability to make Addons can lead to the "you must do Xamount DPS and have this build to play" without giving folks the ability to learn/participate regardless of build.
Yes a guild CAN help..but not everyone is in guilds, some guilds can be elitist and sometimes your guildmates just are not online.
I don't (from what has been presented) think this particular group was too bad. They did let them play and wipe before the kick. It is unfortunate that anytime you have content that is timed or requires certain damage output or there are leaderboards this is going to happen more and more. Personally if I could do the activity...even if I had to carry someone...I prob would let them stay. Especially if they were learning or nice and polite. If they were running around being idiots, not asking questions and unwilling to listen to advice...well that would be different.
Ultimately there are arsehats everywhere though. You have to learn to deal with them or not play MMOs or not always play end game. I make different choices all the time. In the end though, if I am not having fun...then I find something else to do.3 -
Rev Rielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭To the OP.
It's just testament to those player/s that kicked you that they themselves aren't actually very accomplished players. If they were, they would be able to adapt to not having a supposed 'min/maxer' of their desired flavour with them.
Hopefully you'll find a more mature and accepting group.If you can be anything, be kind.4 -
indytims_ESO✭✭✭✭Blaming Zeni is just a way to justify being an elitist jerk.
Seriously, people - even if you did go staff/light armor, what if you are the lowest dps in the group? Will you get booted again? The excuse will be different, of course, but the outcome is the same.
How drastic would this player's DPS increase if he did all the work to swap to staff/light armor? 10%? 20%?
There will always be a dps hierarchy in a group, and an elitest jerk will always have an 'excuse' to dump someone to keep upping what they perceive to be the 'preferred load out'. It's not Zeni's fault that these people are ***. I seriously doubt that there's never been a group with a stamina-build player in it that's finished trials.3 -
shiva7663✭✭✭
What really matters to me is that it's fun. I don't do endgame content, but it works great for things like dolmen anchor fights, with a flexible mix of ranged, gap-closing and tanking abilities. Blorping out that Storm Atronach at the right time is always a bit of a thrill for me. I have no patience or empathy to spare for mini-maxers. I would prefer that they go be efficient elsewhere by beating up on PvPers.Edited by shiva7663 on July 9, 2014 3:05AM2 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Raid leaders will probably shy away in horror at my Imperial Sword & Board Heavy Tank Sorcerer. Storm Atronach FTW!! heh.
This actually sounds appealing.........PERSONALLY.......I would actually throw both pets on my hotbar as well plus Storm Atronach. Then 3 1h melee attacks.
Pets FTW show em who boss.1 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I will NEVER try these trials because of this very reason. I am a NB archer, and I doubt they would accept me.:/ but screw them, if they want to run it in 13 minutes just to look cool, fine. let them be that way. you have ALOT of other content to play and experience. I advise you move on to something else.1 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭vanillexhope wrote: »I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, but as long as a group can get through a dungeon smoothly, I don't see the harm in some players not having the "perfect" spec. Now, if they are wiping again and again and think they can spot the issue (maybe the OP case is in fact the problem), then I think it becomes time to maybe do something about it.
The dungeons 1-50 have all been VERY melee friendly. Actually the BIGGEST error I found from players in general was.....
1. Taking TOO much damage TOO fast.....probably lack of block/dodge
2. Lack of CC from ranged DPS....go figure this is how you survive solo\
3. ..........actually it was just those 2 lol
Save for a one fight against a very mean Werewolf that killed all in melee range...... all the dungeons have actually be particularly well balanced for melee and magic alike.
I like Stamina builds.....I also like healing so life for me is hard lol.
2 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sometimes you have to just be aware and intelligent. An informed ESO player knows that using stamina is not optimal for DPS, nor is heavy armor. If you don't like it then complain, quit, don't do trails, or whatever, but don't try to force someone to carry you because you are protesting the terrible state of stamina builds by running one. If you are going to try to do trials, do some research and come up with an at least half way viable build for it.Edited by timidobserver on July 9, 2014 4:23AMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)7 -
rudimentxb14_ESO✭✭✭This completely defeats the whole premise of the game that you can build any character you want and be effective. This game is 3 months in and in shambles. Sad3
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Fleymark✭✭✭✭✭Why is are Stamina abilities so borken?
(just asking)
#ElderSorcsOnline
@ZOS PLEASE FIX STAM BUILDS!!!
^^THIS should be the^^
#1PRIORITYNOW!
It's because you use the same resource pool to Dps and do dodging and blocking. Magic builds use the magic pool for damage and the stamina pool to block and dodge.
There are a few more synergies that work a bit better for magic too, but that's the main problem.
Give players an option to use magic for dodging and blocking and it's mostly fixed. Just In The options screen use magic to dodge/block yes/no toggle. The rest is easy to fix with some number tweaks.
I'm really getting tired of hearing this.
First of all, as a stamina build nightblade wood elf with all passives relevant to stamina pool and regeneration and in a set of hundings (stamina regeneration) I can dodge and block all day. With siphoning strikes and the right weaving I can dps all day.
Second, dodging and blocking has nothing to do with light armor magicka users just straight up putting up higher numbers than their medium stamina counterparts. So while we are both dodging and blocking all day and DPSing all day, they are putting up higher numbers because their dmg is better plain and simple. When we all do the same shiz, their shiz is just better. HERE is our starting point....
Forget about dodging and blocking. It's a distraction.
What this boils down to is light armor is OP. Just go look at the numbers.
Light Armor is allowed to mitigate dmg enough to be viable for tanks and puts up better dps numbers for dps than any other armor type. And, still, we all collectively scratch our heads as to why only only one basic build works in hard content like a bunch of idiots.
The answer is right in front of everyone but no one wants to acknowledge the big fat pink elephant in the room....
Light Armor needs a whack or three with the nerf bat.
THERE. I said it.
Light Armor should be able to take A hit from melee. But that's all. Maybe. Let it mitigate spell dmg but a good styled melee hit and it's lights out for Irene. And you shouldn't be able to use the active ability from an armor line if you aren't wearing 5 pieces or more of that type of armor. In NORMAL and intelligently designed games, robed casters are glass cannons. Make it so here. Duh.
Absolute stupidity has been allowed to reign with this for so long nobody can see the illogic of it all and how freaking SIMPLE it is to, at least, start to fix it.
Sorry to be the one to say it but it's true. I swear, somebody's favorite niece at zenimax likes casters or something. All we all ever do is quibble over every freaking thing under the sun BESIDES the fact that light armor builds might, just MIGHT, be OP.
It's ridiculous.
Staves are probably OP too, but one thing at a time.Edited by Fleymark on July 9, 2014 6:01AM4 -
Wolfshead✭✭✭✭@Valn
That is just so much BS from group and very very poorly excuse for kick you. You should not need to change you play style for rest of group can't adjust to everyones playstyle in the group.
And blame you for wipes is ssssooo WoWish of group leader also I'm guesses that you don't even cause the wipes but most like the person that told you did low dps that all thanks to wonderful dps counters so basically don't blame Zenimax for people make addon that count everyones dps in group you should blame them who make those addon for the do more harm then good to be honest.
If you don't believe me you should play WoW for the dps counters is like holy book if people do under certain number of dps the kicking party being and I'm of LFR and Flex raid which are so easy to kill bosses in so it ridiculous the last pug raid i did in WoW before i left if did under 120K in dps you get auto kick from the group.
So what that person told you is just BS from him you play how you want and should not be force by a random person to change YOUR play style to make easy for him to play i will never change my play style just for a random person say so.If you find yourself alone, riding in green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled; for you are in Elysium, and you're already deadWhat we do in life, echoes in eternity2 -
tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
✭never done any trial here...
no one wants a melee DPS templar in the group.VR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer3 -
Zero_Tolerance✭✭✭Asking for certain spec (or 'playstyle' as you call it) is fairly normal for harder content in all MMOs. Also, not having it usually ends in 'gtfo noob' instead of long and educated response from the leader you got there. You should thank the guy instead of complaining.
Also, the golden rule? You want to play by your rules - make your own group. Good luck.3 -
ADD ONs thank you for inviting elitist id*ots to the game.
Clean game design without dps prevents this sh*t from happening, because you will never identify the weakest chain.
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EinionYrth✭✭✭✭sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO wrote: »ADD ONs thank you for inviting elitist id*ots to the game.
Clean game design without dps prevents this sh*t from happening, because you will never identify the weakest chain.
On the other hand having groups fail a trial time and time again with no idea why is probably not the best consequence of a "clean game design".
Just sayin'1 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People that go to trials tend to want to complete them.
In my case, if I join a random group where there are people who are below 2200 HP or some that are not VR12, not enough healers, too many tanks: I will leave the group instantly. I don't want to waste my time.
I btw have a special set & potions just for trials (Inferno & Resto staf), whereas in PVP in use resto and 1h & S.
If you're looking for a non competitive time in trials, join a grp that will farm the first boss. You won't get much further with your set anyways.
Oh and don't blame Zenimax, Trials are meant to be hard and the sets you can get in weekly rewards are very well worth it.
But rejoice, ZOS bent to crybabies and nerfed VR zones. They will probably, sadly, eventually nerf Trials so more crybabies can complete them.
No, DO blame Zenimax. "Hard" is fine. Requiring a small number of optimal builds to complete "hard" in a "play your way" game is a whole other thing entirely and is not. We aren't talking about every minute possible variations of builds, here. We are talking light armor and staff to the virtual exclusion of everything else. And that's just ridiculous and the ONLY people are fault are Zenimax. They released the unbalanced game. They left it unbalanced for a quarter of a year. They added the "hard" content that makes it worse.
What's really sad is with all this talk about "current gen" and "AAA" games and "modern MMOs" and "play your way" blah blah blah given the current state of balance in this game, not to mention the state of the game in general, you will find more variety and choices for every possible play style in a 15 year old game like EQ with narrowly defined roles for each class than you will here in a game that's supposed to be wide open. Simply because there is no balance and the topic of this thread is the shining example of that. You will also find more balance, more challenge, more and better rewards and a game designed with a basic understanding of what drives MMO dynamics than this one, too, but that's another conversation.
Sadly, I agree with the last point. They probably will just nerf the content so the imbalances just don't matter because that's easier than fixing their game.
Blame zenimax for that, too.
It's so anoying to see people thinking that "play your way" means: "Do anything and it will work".
You can do what ever you want, you can play a Sorcerer with Heavy Armor, 2H and Dual Wield. <= You can play your way.
It doesn't mean you will be successfull, ZOS never said you would be successfull at "playing your way".
Trials are meant for competitive players.
Competitive players aim for gameplay and team optimisation.
If you want to "play your way", go Fungal Grotto and leave Trials to competitive players.
Regarding stamina builds, yes, they are broken, and ZOS has allready began making them stronger and has stated why they where taking it slowly. More patches will come and with most of them, improvements to stamina builds viability and Heavy Armour viability.
Stamina builds will be competitive and viable on short-middle term, till then either change your build or go to easy dungeons.
Stop saying "Play your way" means you should be able to do everything with any [snip] build.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]Edited by ZOS_JoanaL on July 10, 2014 12:57AM3 -
Larira✭✭✭✭The fact is, this game is horribly unbalanced and in terms of this content that was added with the full knowledge of the developers of this fact, it's broken too.
Yes, this game is very unbalanced. But in Skyrim and i guess other ES-games heavy armour and two handed weapons were never good choices for high dps. I wonder that the TS had such expectations. And when the raid leader needs someone for high dps so i can understand him.
Greetings1 -
Fleymark✭✭✭✭✭People that go to trials tend to want to complete them.
In my case, if I join a random group where there are people who are below 2200 HP or some that are not VR12, not enough healers, too many tanks: I will leave the group instantly. I don't want to waste my time.
I btw have a special set & potions just for trials (Inferno & Resto staf), whereas in PVP in use resto and 1h & S.
If you're looking for a non competitive time in trials, join a grp that will farm the first boss. You won't get much further with your set anyways.
Oh and don't blame Zenimax, Trials are meant to be hard and the sets you can get in weekly rewards are very well worth it.
But rejoice, ZOS bent to crybabies and nerfed VR zones. They will probably, sadly, eventually nerf Trials so more crybabies can complete them.
No, DO blame Zenimax. "Hard" is fine. Requiring a small number of optimal builds to complete "hard" in a "play your way" game is a whole other thing entirely and is not. We aren't talking about every minute possible variations of builds, here. We are talking light armor and staff to the virtual exclusion of everything else. And that's just ridiculous and the ONLY people are fault are Zenimax. They released the unbalanced game. They left it unbalanced for a quarter of a year. They added the "hard" content that makes it worse.
What's really sad is with all this talk about "current gen" and "AAA" games and "modern MMOs" and "play your way" blah blah blah given the current state of balance in this game, not to mention the state of the game in general, you will find more variety and choices for every possible play style in a 15 year old game like EQ with narrowly defined roles for each class than you will here in a game that's supposed to be wide open. Simply because there is no balance and the topic of this thread is the shining example of that. You will also find more balance, more challenge, more and better rewards and a game designed with a basic understanding of what drives MMO dynamics than this one, too, but that's another conversation.
Sadly, I agree with the last point. They probably will just nerf the content so the imbalances just don't matter because that's easier than fixing their game.
Blame zenimax for that, too.
It's so anoying to see people thinking that "play your way" means: "Do anything and it will work".
You can do what ever you want, you can play a Sorcerer with Heavy Armor, 2H and Dual Wield. <= You can play your way.
It doesn't mean you will be successfull, ZOS never said you would be successfull at "playing your way".
Trials are meant for competitive players.
Competitive players aim for gameplay and team optimisation.
If you want to "play your way", go Fungal Grotto and leave Trials to competitive players.
Regarding stamina builds, yes, they are broken, and ZOS has allready began making them stronger and has stated why they where taking it slowly. More patches will come and with most of them, improvements to stamina builds viability and Heavy Armour viability.
Stamina builds will be competitive and viable on short-middle term, till then either change your build or go to easy dungeons.
Stop saying "Play your way" means you should be able to do everything with any [snip] build.
I've said repeatedly in this thread while making my point that I'm not saying any whacky build should be as viable as one that isn't.
More to the point, I said, specifically, in the post you quote that there is a gulf of difference between being adequately prepared for hard content with a build and a majority of builds just not working.
So I'll cut to the chase so even you can understand the point...
Do you think it, at all, reasonable that light armor and staff builds are the only viable dps for trials?
That's what this boils down to.
Zenimax never said you would be successful with "play your way?" THAT'S your argument? That's like saying a car manufacturer never said you could drive the car they sold you...It will just be good driveway decoration. We aren't talking about people showing up specced in some nutty build being the issue. We are talking about all melee and everything but light armor and staves. Again, you guessed it, a HUGE difference.
I've been at the top end of MMOs for 15 years. I understand that optimum is what is often needed for high end content. And that is fine. It could be a gear requirement, skills, player skill...Any number of things. The issue here is that "optimum" isn't a bar based on actually being optimal with a particular build....It's BEING a particular build. And there's a massive difference that, for some reason, you can't seem to grasp.
To put this in terms of other games, so maybe you can understand....say you have 3 roles...Tank, Healer, DPS...And among the dps classes you have casters, who are wizards, sorcerers, and magicians...And then you have melee dps...Rogues, Monks, Berserkers, Assassins.....whatever....
If this game had the balance issues that ESO currently does, only the wizards, sorcerers and magicians could do the end game content.
The fact is, "builds" in this game, generally are like classes in others. Just with added flexibility. I'm fine with, from a nitpicky perspective, some builds being more optimal than others. It's not fine with everyone having to spec EXACTLY THE SAME WAY to be optimal. There's a huge difference. Because it's just like saying that only wizards, sorcerers and mages get to dps end game. And that's absurd in this game or any other.
Demanding "optimal" is fine. Demanding everyone be robed casters because the company who made the game can't or won't balance the game is not.
I never once said that every conceivable build should be able to do everything.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]Edited by ZOS_SilviaS on July 10, 2014 1:04AM1 -
EinionYrthb16_ESO wrote: »sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO wrote: »ADD ONs thank you for inviting elitist id*ots to the game.
Clean game design without dps prevents this sh*t from happening, because you will never identify the weakest chain.
On the other hand having groups fail a trial time and time again with no idea why is probably not the best consequence of a "clean game design".
Just sayin'
No offence, but I don't need add on to see if the group fails in dps, avoiding dmg, focus to kill adds etc etc. All you need to do is watching what is going around you not the floating numbers or meters.
Just saying...
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fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
This is the core problem: ZOS like Blizzard and many before them decided to create artificial barriers to entry to this content by putting in gear and DPS 'checks' and compounded the crime by rewarding fast runs.If there were no damned DPS-checks, there would be ultimately no need for restricting "bad" specs. Unfortunately, devs choose to close their eyes to this issue and elitists DO NOT. We've seen the result..
The reaction the OP got from the leader is entirely predictable given the nature of the content, it's ZOS' fault no one else's. Time limited fights (either explicit or enforced by soft or hard enrages) shouldn't exist, if a group is able to kill a boss they should be allowed to do so, time doesn't matter.
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TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"Do you think it, at all, reasonable that light armor and staff builds are the only viable dps for trials?"
It's called Mechanics. Is it normal that a fireball hurts more and longer than a sword? <= Yes."Zenimax never said you would be successful with "play your way?" THAT'S your argument? That's like saying a car manufacturer never said you could drive the car they sold you...It will just be good driveway decoration."
Erm no, its like a car manufacturer lending you a car factory giving you all the materials that you want and freedom of design<= If you decide to place one wheel in the midle and make your car 20m high, don't blame the manufacturer for your stupid ideas.If this game had the balance issues that ESO currently does, only the wizards, sorcerers and magicians could do the end game content.
Except it's not the case in ESO, not only sorcs can do end game content Craglorn is end game content
.It's not fine with everyone having to spec EXACTLY THE SAME WAY to be optimal. There's a huge difference. Because it's just like saying that only wizards, sorcerers and mages get to dps end game. And that's absurd in this game or any other.
You call it absurd, I call it mechanics (plus it's not true you have to spec EXACTLY the same way). Rocks are stronger than wood. They DPS more when you throw them at crybabies like you, you find this absurd? I call it Natural Mechanics. IRL you can fight with guns or arow & bow. Odly, wars are fought with guns because they do more DPS than bows. There is no balance in the world, why should there be in the game? Why should swords be as strong as spells? This is your point of view, your wish, maybe it's not ZOS's?
Bottom line: Less QQ more Pew Pew, if you don't like the game, just unsub or patiently wait for evolution to kick in and classes to be more balanced.1 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Why is are Stamina abilities so borken?
(just asking)
#ElderSorcsOnline
@ZOS PLEASE FIX STAM BUILDS!!!
^^THIS should be the^^
#1PRIORITYNOW!
It's because you use the same resource pool to Dps and do dodging and blocking. Magic builds use the magic pool for damage and the stamina pool to block and dodge.
There are a few more synergies that work a bit better for magic too, but that's the main problem.
Give players an option to use magic for dodging and blocking and it's mostly fixed. Just In The options screen use magic to dodge/block yes/no toggle. The rest is easy to fix with some number tweaks.
I'm really getting tired of hearing this.
First of all, as a stamina build nightblade wood elf with all passives relevant to stamina pool and regeneration and in a set of hundings (stamina regeneration) I can dodge and block all day. With siphoning strikes and the right weaving I can dps all day.
Second, dodging and blocking has nothing to do with light armor magicka users just straight up putting up higher numbers than their medium stamina counterparts. So while we are both dodging and blocking all day and DPSing all day, they are putting up higher numbers because their dmg is better plain and simple. When we all do the same shiz, their shiz is just better. HERE is our starting point....
Forget about dodging and blocking. It's a distraction.
What this boils down to is light armor is OP. Just go look at the numbers.
Light Armor is allowed to mitigate dmg enough to be viable for tanks and puts up better dps numbers for dps than any other armor type. And, still, we all collectively scratch our heads as to why only only one basic build works in hard content like a bunch of idiots.
The answer is right in front of everyone but no one wants to acknowledge the big fat pink elephant in the room....
Light Armor needs a whack or three with the nerf bat.
THERE. I said it.
Light Armor should be able to take A hit from melee. But that's all. Maybe. Let it mitigate spell dmg but a good styled melee hit and it's lights out for Irene. And you shouldn't be able to use the active ability from an armor line if you aren't wearing 5 pieces or more of that type of armor. In NORMAL and intelligently designed games, robed casters are glass cannons. Make it so here. Duh.
Absolute stupidity has been allowed to reign with this for so long nobody can see the illogic of it all and how freaking SIMPLE it is to, at least, start to fix it.
Sorry to be the one to say it but it's true. I swear, somebody's favorite niece at zenimax likes casters or something. All we all ever do is quibble over every freaking thing under the sun BESIDES the fact that light armor builds might, just MIGHT, be OP.
It's ridiculous.
Staves are probably OP too, but one thing at a time.
Looking at the armors I have never been able to conclude one was "better" than another as they all had comparable perks.
I think the biggest issue between the armors starts at the heart of the issue
Magicka>Stamina
But its really hard to understand the discrepancy between the two all we can do is look at some facts.
1. All Class abilities a Magicka based. This makes sense so all characters have a base foundation.
2. Points towards Stamina increases the Light/Heavy Attacks of all weapons....Magicka does NOT. Again this makes more sense with all class abilities being magic based, you have to pick casted ability increase or unlimited attack increase.
3. Magicka is a VERY limited resource even when placing all stat points towards it. Casted abilities are VERY hard to sustain usage of (given a few abilities/weapons....get to later on).
4. Given the current balance stated in the previous points you get either strong casted abilities that you can not sustain very well versus an increased Light/Heavy Attack that never runs out with weaker abilities.
So
Magicka = High damage Low sustainment
Stamina = Good Damage(Light/Heavy Attacks) High Sustainment
Based on this premises we haven't even added Stamina abilities into the mix but you can see a balance.
Stamina builds have lots of weapons to choose from while 3 are meant for ranged combat. So it seems to make sense to expect a Stamina build to be in combat. So the Stamina resource provides the MUCH needed defenses of Block, Dodge, Stun.
Now we have melee weapons with no abilities if we make the abilities as strong as Magicka abilities we create an imbalance where Stamina has High Damage with good damage sustainment that Magicka would NOT
So instead we give Stamina good DPS abilities but still weaker than Magicka. Since the abilities are weaker we give them more utility or make them situational IE uppercut with knowdown or reverse slash that increases in damage the closer the enemy is to death.
If you can follow all this it REALLY makes sense till you look 1 thing. There are certain things Magicka builds can do to sustain their high level of damage.
There we certain things added to the game to relieve SOME of the strain on a Magicka build as their reliance on Magicka is MUCH more important to their survival where their second resource is beyond useless to keeping them alive versus Stamina's use of Magicka to stay alive is MUCH more readied and available and usefull.
But the combination of these "things" added to help a Magicka build seems to have went overboard and now in combination they simply don't run out of Magicka.
IF a Magicka build ran out of its resource and had crap for DPS there on out versus that of what a Stamina build can do the balance would be easier and make sense.1 -
Valn✭✭✭✭✭indytims_ESO wrote: »Blaming Zeni is just a way to justify being an elitist jerk.
Seriously, people - even if you did go staff/light armor, what if you are the lowest dps in the group? Will you get booted again? The excuse will be different, of course, but the outcome is the same.
How drastic would this player's DPS increase if he did all the work to swap to staff/light armor? 10%? 20%?
There will always be a dps hierarchy in a group, and an elitest jerk will always have an 'excuse' to dump someone to keep upping what they perceive to be the 'preferred load out'. It's not Zeni's fault that these people are ***. I seriously doubt that there's never been a group with a stamina-build player in it that's finished trials.
But it IS Zenis fault for making magicka builds so superior to heavy armor melee builds.1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »
Resolve = 7% damage reduction is nothing in VR PVE dungeons 7% of a 3k hit is nothing Healers don't even notice the difference honestlymike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »Wifeaggro13 wrote: »LOL im offended , but not really i have a static though most quit due to the imbalances. We dont do trials anymore as there is no real reward for them the gear is aesthetic .
But i have a heavy wearing DK . and out of curiousity what acheivements do you have as a trial leader. Ive a couple, and all the working achievements in the VR dungeons as tank and heals including speed runs. Anyhow i am more then willing to put a group together and decimate every single VR dungeon on both chrs and you can see there is literally no difference in amount of damage i take as a heavy wearing DK or light armor sorc tank. The armor mitigates nothing its the armor number and i can be 1200 past armor and spell resist cap with two buffs. actually the sorc handles spell damage way better.
Let's see, well for one you said armour is useless outside of stat pools. That's completely ignoring all the passives and especially the ones useful to the tank which are to a) receive more healing and b) to reduce the cost of blocking c) faster health regen. The resource pools that suffers most when tanking is not magicka, or in fact health, it's stamina.
Secondly, as a DK you have only Razor Armor and naked with Razor Armor you only move past the soft cap for 3.5 secs. You cannot keep casting Razor Armor every 4 secs in a fight so that's pretty much wrong. Heavy Armour plus Razor Armour puts you near the hard cap where you have to be for boss fights like Hel Ra.
There is absolutely nothing to suggest that tanking in Light Armour is far superior to tank in Heavy Armour as you so confidently said. What you are doing is DPSing between bosses which is not tanking. I prefer to press one pre-programmed button to go full light when DPSing and another button to go 5H/2L for boss fights.
You can say you like being a versatile tank, or a lazy tank who can't be bothered to make/swap gear. But you can't say that tanking in Light Armour is better than Heavy. That's the ignorant part
Compared to
Evocation 21% reduction cost of magica abilities.
Constitution = increased recovery 28% only works out of combat just minimizes down time .
compared to
light Recovery 28 % recovery just reduces down time not relevant in combat .
Juggernagut = Increased weapon damage of 3.5 %. no one is using melee weapons as DPs anyhow if you want to complete VR dungeons or trials. SNS is good for tanking and mitigation.
compared toLight armor Spell warding 8% spell resistance per piece 56% resistance lol . Id say juggernaught is completely useless passive honestly
Bracing = 10 % reduced cost of blocking with 5 pieces the only time this is relevant is bosses that one shot with a heavy hit most spell projectiles ignore blocking very few VR bosses does this come into play and honestly it is pretty worthless with Pots anyhow.
compared to
Prodigy = 10% chance increased critical damage. well id say in a sustained fight this here makes the difference in a huge way.
LOL now this one makes me laugh real hard
Rapid mending = 3.5% additional healing for a full 7 pieces of heavy. Seriously every single healer i've had on both my light armor tank and my heavy tank prefer the 50% spell resistance of light armor over a additional 3.5 % healing i'm over healed anyhow.
Nothing in heavy is even remotely equal to light armor. if you think 3.5 % healing is making hel ra doable i dont know what to say. Spike armor will keep you easily 300 to 400 above cap for 20 seconds. if you cant manage that in a rotation as a tank oh well . you dont mitigate anything past that anyhow go look at the parse videos of people posting the incoming damage. the amount of damage mitigated at cap and beyond is minimal very minimal.
As i said my sorc mitigates way better then my DK because of spell resistance physical damage is the same my sorc is 1200 past armor cap in light . i dont think you could Trail naked but quite a bit of the Vr dungeons are doable if your skilled. As i stated the down fall would be your stat pools. If you require proof ill gladly take yoou through any of the VR dungeons of your choice with both Tanks and you can see for yourself. if your past has had experience with bad light armor tanks it comes down to skill and knowledge i suspect they would be bad in heavy as well. Facts are facts Armor type does nothing for mitigation its the armor value and you can easily exceed armor cap with any class in light. Go take a look at that Alacrity Video the whole damn raid even tank was in light with a staff. 13 minute complete time. jesus man are you gonna just ignore facts numbers and proof and call me ignorant? im offering to help you and prove to you so you know the truth and can make informed decisions on how to improve your chr,Passives affect DPS and stat poolsfar more then survivability.
I just find so many flaws in your logic it's mind boggling. This is not the thread for it so I won't argue much further but I'll point out only 2 obvious points you keep missing.
1) A tank's main mitigation comes from blocking. My DK has 40% spell res mitigation. Your Sorc could be soft-capped 50% with Lightning Form. Do you realise how small a difference that is on a player holding block? My block mitigation stands at 78%. So from a 3K hit, only 660 get's through. If that's a spell hit I will mitigate 40% further of that (or 264), you will mitigate 50% (or 330), a difference of 66hp on a 3k hit. My survival is increased by my ability to block for longer not by 10% extra spell res. A heavy armour tank can block for longer and is by definition a better tank.
2) The reason Sorc Tanks are worst tanks is because of the lack of self-heals. Dark Exchange cannot be used in combat and it trades your precious stamina anyway. Crit Surge is for DPSing not tanking, you cannot hope to outheal the dmg of a boss by DPSing him. If the Healer runs out of magicka or dies by standing in red, DKs and Templars can heal themselves until the healer is backup. A Sorc-Tank can't do that. If the healer dies, the Tank then dies and group wipes.
You can keep talking about how light armour is great for tanking because of 21% spell crit, when none of the tank abilities (Razor Armor, GDB, Bound Armour, Lightning Form etc.) crit. Yeah real usefulEU | PC | AD2
