I feel for the Op . The raid leader was not an elitist snob. He was pragmatic and offered the Op guidance. It crushing to get to end game and find out the game is even more cookiecutter then a hard lined full class sytem . But instead of there being one cookie for each class . Its one cookie for all classes. An elitist would have used the phrase scrub several timeas and finished with a L2p . Say what you will at the end of the day Zos created this dynamic. Not by design but by poor testing and a strong push to get the pc version out .lets not call this a community issue . The dynamic was encouraged with limmited res and timed competetion. Its a clear way to make it diff ult with out adding diffculty

SaibotLiu wrote: »

Group leader is a bad. Really bad. He let you join group, ran content with you, wiped three times. It is in fact his fault and he's doing a terrible job of being group leader and wasting other peoples time. If he was good he would've known that the group makeup wasnt good enough before you wiped at all. So the three wipes were probably his fault because he's a crap player and he just takes the easiest scape goat.

You should PM his name so I can teach him how to play his class and give him advice on how not to suck at being a GL.

You're just SO awesome. Find a ladder and get over yourself.

butterfly442 wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Well this is disappointing, I've only attempted trials a few times, and I say attempted because people kept going offline etc, but today was more annoying because I found a good group, but they kicked me for wearing heavy armor + 2h (dps) after we wiped on the 3rd boss.

This was a pug group. The leader was asking for people in zone chat. This wasn't a guild run or world ranking world first or whatever. This was a casual pug group.

I'm not blaming the group leader, he wanted to complete the trial. But now I'm forced to choose a certain playstyle.

Thank you Zenimax, for excluding me because i'm not allowed to play the way I want.

edit: saw this come up and chuckled

You were not discriminated or excluded for any other reason than you found yet another jerk online.

Move on.

Failing to see any jerk in the leader. The content is not completeable unless everyone is wearing light armor and using a staff including the tank.the leader was polite helpful and encouraging. As a leader you have 11 other people that have a reasonible expectation of finishing the content. They are not there to wipe over and over and over because they cannot make the dps check. Now if he were an a hole and had called the op names and mistreated him verbaly there would be an issue. Why is the other 11 people to suffer because the OP was 600 dps shy of his check.its not the ops fault either he odviously has skill he made it to end game and has the desire to compete . Its pure and simple game design flaw

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

butterfly442 wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Well this is disappointing, I've only attempted trials a few times, and I say attempted because people kept going offline etc, but today was more annoying because I found a good group, but they kicked me for wearing heavy armor + 2h (dps) after we wiped on the 3rd boss.

This was a pug group. The leader was asking for people in zone chat. This wasn't a guild run or world ranking world first or whatever. This was a casual pug group.

I'm not blaming the group leader, he wanted to complete the trial. But now I'm forced to choose a certain playstyle.

Thank you Zenimax, for excluding me because i'm not allowed to play the way I want.

edit: saw this come up and chuckled

You were not discriminated or excluded for any other reason than you found yet another jerk online.

Move on.

Failing to see any jerk in the leader. The content is not completeable unless everyone is wearing light armor and using a staff including the tank.the leader was polite helpful and encouraging. As a leader you have 11 other people that have a reasonible expectation of finishing the content. They are not there to wipe over and over and over because they cannot make the dps check. Now if he were an a hole and had called the op names and mistreated him verbaly there would be an issue. Why is the other 11 people to suffer because the OP was 600 dps shy of his check.its not the ops fault either he odviously has skill he made it to end game and has the desire to compete . Its pure and simple game design flaw

Really? You cant complete trials if the whole group does not wear light and wield sticks?
Litterally? It hasn´t been done?

Really?

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Milanna wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

butterfly442 wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Well this is disappointing, I've only attempted trials a few times, and I say attempted because people kept going offline etc, but today was more annoying because I found a good group, but they kicked me for wearing heavy armor + 2h (dps) after we wiped on the 3rd boss.

This was a pug group. The leader was asking for people in zone chat. This wasn't a guild run or world ranking world first or whatever. This was a casual pug group.

I'm not blaming the group leader, he wanted to complete the trial. But now I'm forced to choose a certain playstyle.

Thank you Zenimax, for excluding me because i'm not allowed to play the way I want.

edit: saw this come up and chuckled

You were not discriminated or excluded for any other reason than you found yet another jerk online.

Move on.

Failing to see any jerk in the leader. The content is not completeable unless everyone is wearing light armor and using a staff including the tank.the leader was polite helpful and encouraging. As a leader you have 11 other people that have a reasonible expectation of finishing the content. They are not there to wipe over and over and over because they cannot make the dps check. Now if he were an a hole and had called the op names and mistreated him verbaly there would be an issue. Why is the other 11 people to suffer because the OP was 600 dps shy of his check.its not the ops fault either he odviously has skill he made it to end game and has the desire to compete . Its pure and simple game design flaw

Really? You cant complete trials if the whole group does not wear light and wield sticks?
Litterally? It hasn´t been done?

Really?

Yes it is not doable absloutely correct. There are dps checks that require that.

I have no idea what a dps check is.

It is really hard to believe though, that not a single medium wearing or heavy wearing character made it through. Or a sword. But hey, havent been there.

Milanna wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Milanna wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

butterfly442 wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Well this is disappointing, I've only attempted trials a few times, and I say attempted because people kept going offline etc, but today was more annoying because I found a good group, but they kicked me for wearing heavy armor + 2h (dps) after we wiped on the 3rd boss.

This was a pug group. The leader was asking for people in zone chat. This wasn't a guild run or world ranking world first or whatever. This was a casual pug group.

I'm not blaming the group leader, he wanted to complete the trial. But now I'm forced to choose a certain playstyle.

Thank you Zenimax, for excluding me because i'm not allowed to play the way I want.

edit: saw this come up and chuckled

You were not discriminated or excluded for any other reason than you found yet another jerk online.

Move on.

Failing to see any jerk in the leader. The content is not completeable unless everyone is wearing light armor and using a staff including the tank.the leader was polite helpful and encouraging. As a leader you have 11 other people that have a reasonible expectation of finishing the content. They are not there to wipe over and over and over because they cannot make the dps check. Now if he were an a hole and had called the op names and mistreated him verbaly there would be an issue. Why is the other 11 people to suffer because the OP was 600 dps shy of his check.its not the ops fault either he odviously has skill he made it to end game and has the desire to compete . Its pure and simple game design flaw

Really? You cant complete trials if the whole group does not wear light and wield sticks?
Litterally? It hasn´t been done?

Really?

Yes it is not doable absloutely correct. There are dps checks that require that.

I have no idea what a dps check is.

It is really hard to believe though, that not a single medium wearing or heavy wearing character made it through. Or a sword. But hey, havent been there.

A Dps check is when you have to do xx damage in a set ammount of time. Normally it's before a boss enrages and it's damage output sky rockets. Basically the Dps as a whole will need to average a set amount of Dps, so non optimal builds can cause you to fail if not enough people do more their their individual target Dps.

It can be done with several characters in non light armour, but those players need to be good. Medium dual wield night blades have done it repeatedly. Heavy armour is just really bad for Dps though.

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

Group leader is a bad. Really bad. He let you join group, ran content with you, wiped three times. It is in fact his fault and he's doing a terrible job of being group leader and wasting other peoples time. If he was good he would've known that the group makeup wasnt good enough before you wiped at all. So the three wipes were probably his fault because he's a crap player and he just takes the easiest scape goat.

You should PM his name so I can teach him how to play his class and give him advice on how not to suck at being a GL.

You're just SO awesome. Find a ladder and get over yourself.

I think I'll just sit here and kiss my biceps while you forum QQ instead.

Not to mention you obviously got offended because you're that type of player, expecting to get carried by a group and are quick to shift blame to other players each time your precious toon dies.

"DPS isnt doin their job, HEAL ME, cmon TANK...hit it like you mean it."

If you arent GL, you'll drop group at the first sign of trouble.

Seen it every game, Unlike the OP I tend to just laugh at you guys though.

Thanks for the explanation guys.

Sadly, you just gotta roll with it, this is Elder Staves Online right now, and you can't force people to change opinions.

Valn wrote: »

Well this is disappointing, I've only attempted trials a few times, and I say attempted because people kept going offline etc, but today was more annoying because I found a good group, but they kicked me for wearing heavy armor + 2h (dps) after we wiped on the 3rd boss.

This was a pug group. The leader was asking for people in zone chat. This wasn't a guild run or world ranking world first or whatever. This was a casual pug group.

I'm not blaming the group leader, he wanted to complete the trial. But now I'm forced to choose a certain playstyle.

Thank you Zenimax, for excluding me because i'm not allowed to play the way I want.

edit: saw this come up and chuckled

the general approach that works best in any mmo is to start your own group, and use the words "casual run" in your chat spam. if anyone wants in, and then starts talking about min-maxing, you kick'em. I used to have far more successful nightmare dungeon runs in TSW when I put together casual groups (if guild wasn't running them that night), than spending 3 hours looking for the dream team full of "I are teh smartest" types.

Alphashado wrote: »

This is the nature of the beast ZoS created with timed trials. The concept by design demands the most cookie cutter meta builds. The objective is to do these as fast as you possibly can, so naturally such an objective is going to bring out the "optimal" builds and rotations.

This is one rare occasion where I will side with elitists. They are only trying their best to achieve an objective that was presented to them - do this as fast as you can and we will reward you. So ZoS is to blame here for elite pugs. Not the players. If there were more diversity in viable top end builds, then you wouldn't see this type of thing nearly as often. The pug had nothing against this guy personally, they just know that a 2H dps build is weak, and therefore slow, and therefore defeats the goal that ZoS presented them.

The best option for anyone with less than "optimal" builds that want to enjoy Trials is to find a good guild that isn't 100% focused on the completion time. Find a guild that just enjoys completing content and having fun with each other. There are a lot of them out there.

the problem with the whole thing is this. Limited Res is just an actual false difficulty, timed trial is pointless unless you are an elitist. the general joe Raider will spend a couple hours wiping the part of a raid generaly 2 bosses working on the third. they will likely spend a couple weekends doing this with friends or Pugs and find some enjoyment if the first part of the raid is rewarding and giving gear. they will talk strat in voice com , comunitcate laugh joke and figure it out and progress to the next part of the raid while building friend ships and strengthening their community.that dynamic will not exist here

With ZOS current dynamic it forces people to use one spec break group restart and never have anytime to discuss what they did wrong talk strat and progress. On top of it you will never aquire anything better then what you could craft. the look maybe different form crafted but it will still be less then. The whole trial system eats itself and chases away the end game player aside from competetion amongst the elite guilds. Its not a healthy dynamic that promotes community or game play. Its poorly thought ouot , badly designed and more people hate it then enjoy it.

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Thank you Zenimax, for excluding me because i'm not allowed to play the way I want.

That whole "play as you want" excuse is sounding more and more lame. Everyone uses it to *** about something. I know ZOS said that, but 'play as you want' does not mean 'play stupidly'. If the leader says a particular build works best in trials, then do that and put the whole 'play as you want' thing away for a bit.

ZoS should not have said it if they didn't want it flung back in their face. If you market the game as something, stick to it or accept the criticism.

QFT

Milanna wrote: »

Thanks for the explanation guys.

your welcome sorry i was not more clear. i was not being hostile to you. the short explanation is melee builds are throttled the average joe in melee medium/ sword,daggers or bow will put out 450 to 600 DPS. The average caster Light/ staff spec will do 900 to 1200. If each player is required to put out 1100 for a DPS check 3 make 1200 8 make 1100 and the 12th makes 450 your screwed. that degenerative compounds over 7 or 8 minutes and your boss still has 24% health , and kaboooi there goes the timed mechanic and everyone dies.