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This is OUR game!
Phinix1
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EDIT: For sanity.
Why can't we have an online game that doesn't cater to the crowd that wants to solo everything?
More appropriate to ESO, why can't we just have a toggle to either play in a phase with all the people that opt to stick with veteran content as it is, or in phase with all those who wish to play it as they intend to correct it on Monday to be more in line with 1-50?
Do we really need to upset one half of the community or the other when the phasing technology is built into the megaserver architecture already?
Many enjoy the strategy of adaptation and having to try new things to develop your character, and the sense of satisfaction and reward that come from working out a build that works on content that formerly thwarted you.
This aspect of the game was unique to the MMO genre and if there is any way we can hang onto it while still giving the other side what they want, I think we should seriously consider it.
Edited by Phinix1 on July 6, 2014 7:07AM Why can't we have an online game that doesn't cater to the crowd that wants to solo everything?
More appropriate to ESO, why can't we just have a toggle to either play in a phase with all the people that opt to stick with veteran content as it is, or in phase with all those who wish to play it as they intend to correct it on Monday to be more in line with 1-50?
Do we really need to upset one half of the community or the other when the phasing technology is built into the megaserver architecture already?
Many enjoy the strategy of adaptation and having to try new things to develop your character, and the sense of satisfaction and reward that come from working out a build that works on content that formerly thwarted you.
This aspect of the game was unique to the MMO genre and if there is any way we can hang onto it while still giving the other side what they want, I think we should seriously consider it.
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Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Wait.. when did OUR become YOU?Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
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Laura✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree with you almost 100% but the bads (not casuals I'm casual but that doesn't mean I can't learn to play. I have and got through content just fine) will not stop whining till they have turned this game into Generic MMO#293949-B
A clear message has been sent - we want more of the same and we don't want to socialize in our social games and we don't want to have to try or use our brains.
It really is a new and different era and the entitled, selfish nature of gamers today reflects in society.
They don't want to earn it they don't want to work for it they don't want to try they literally want to be able to drool all over themselves as they bash the keyboard and get through content.
Edited by Laura on July 5, 2014 9:11PM17 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let me explain what is going to happen because of this:- Addon authors leave. "Catering to fire standers and destroying the unique challenge and meaningful and rewarding group content? Sorry, support your own game."
- Guild leaders leave. "I should tow the line for a bunch of bads without any rewarding gameplay incentives for even marginally skilled players beyond time-rush fap trials? Sorry, that gets old quick."
- Skilled players leave. "If I wanted a lobotomy I would beat myself over the head with a bottle of Jack Daniels. Sorry, YOU entertain the bads."
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khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree - they shouldnt nerf VR content but not because ZOS have 'created perfect balance there'. Thats laughable. The lack of balance is one of the core issues actually. Had they distinctly marked group content as such and made sure no build/playstyle could waltz in and AOE that crap down solo, there would be much less complaining. People would go 'well OK, this is clearly not soloable, I just need a grp for this part... hm, maybe I should find a decent pve guild while Im at it'.Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on July 6, 2014 11:42AMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.2 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »Let me explain what is going to happen because of this:- Addon authors leave. "Catering to fire standers and destroying the unique challenge and meaningful and rewarding group content? Sorry, support your own game."
- Guild leaders leave. "I should tow the line for a bunch of bads without any rewarding gameplay incentives for even marginally skilled players beyond time-rush fap trials? Sorry, that gets old quick."
- Skilled players leave. "If I wanted a lobotomy I would beat myself over the head with a bottle of Jack Daniels. Sorry, YOU entertain the bads."
Some ADDon people will love the change, just like some will hate it.
Again, same with guild leaders.
I'm a skilled player. I'm staying. So....6 -
Caduryn✭✭✭Ah.....the Alien.....again....
So, when the majority loves the Vet Zones, as YOU say, why they are.....empty???9 -
Kulthax✭✭✭I agree with you almost 100% but the bads (not casuals I'm casual but that doesn't mean I can't learn to play. I have and got through content just fine) will not stop whining till they have turned this game into Generic MMO#293949-B
A clear message has been sent - we want more of the same and we don't want to socialize in our social games.
Gamers have been conditioned to play at a level that is easier for them to attain a certain status or achieve certain loot goals. It is not the fault of casuals or 'bads' as you call them but it is the fault of MMOs as a whole.
If you have played MMOs for 10 years plus it is easy to see the devolution of the online gaming philosophy. Deconstructing social norms in MMOs started with World of Warcraft and has since been carried over and copied by every other MMO since. The projected need for self fulfilment through obtaining pixelated goods and arbitrary achievements from MMO developers is why this game is evolving. It really appears to be the case of if you cannot beat them, then join them.
I do not want VR difficulty to change, but I also dislike the tedious, repetitive and insulting content that is VR. I accept it though because it is out of my control and I do so enjoy this game.
Edited by Kulthax on July 5, 2014 9:19PM4 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »So what? Let them go play ANY OTHER MMO ON THE MARKET!
I think you need to yell at ZOS, not me.Do ALL games have to cater to the low IQ audience?
MMOs, generally yes. I don't know a MMOs that is for Mensa members only.Can't there be ONE game that has the courage to cater to intelligent people?
You would be hard pressed to find one.If ANY genre was going to do it, it would have been Elder Scrolls.
To be fair, TES games are pretty smart games. ESO is not.What a disappointment.
I can understand your disappointment. I like challenging games as well, but i do understand their decision and it is the right one for them.
They are a company and need to make a profit.I HATE this industry and everything catering to this demographic represents for our society!
Well, it might be time to find a new hobby.
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Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ah.....the Alien.....again....
So, when the majority loves the Vet Zones, as YOU say, why they are.....empty???
They AREN'T empty, who told you they were? Every time I post in chat for a group I get a reply in less than a minute.
I think most people just don't talk much there because they are either enjoying the game or don't want to encourage the trade spam.7 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Gamers have been conditioned to play at a level that is easier for them to attain a certain status or achieve certain loot goals. It is not the fault of casuals or 'bads' as you call them but it is the fault of MMOs as a whole.
So not even a company with the Elder Scrolls genra name behind them has the courage to stand up to this disease?Blackwidow wrote: »I can understand your disappointment. I like challenging games as well, but i do understand their decision and it is the right one for them.
They are a company and need to make a profit.
The will LOSE money because of this. Mine included.Edited by Phinix1 on July 5, 2014 9:21PM5 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Moderator Edit: Removed quote from moderated post.
But, making the game solo friendly, discourages grouping. I don't enjoy having people all around me in 1-50, because they just steal kills before I get a chance to hit them to get credit. They add chaos to the fights when I am more than capable of doing them myself. All in all, grouping is not desirable in a game where you don't benefit from doing it.
So, basically what we are left with is the only people who group, do so because they already have a connection to each other.Edited by ZOS_SandraF on July 5, 2014 11:40PM[DC/NA]2 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well , i want to play this game solo , end of story.
If i cant do that , then i dont have any reason to play this game.
Now , all this mean is that my sub will be removed , after all i wont pay for something i dont want to play.
Im quite sure this also sums up the situation many other players are in.
Zen trully can take the game in any direction they want , if they think they can keep the game going without my sub and of the others that think like me , then by all means. The question is , can they?
I soloed the veteran content up to vet10 , did the quests and only worked with others for anchors/world bosses and the open group dungeon , now i need a zone for vet11/12 since im a solo player and craglorn is not meant for me.
Im waiting them to add it soon and i mean soon , i wont wait forever."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor7 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »Ah.....the Alien.....again....
So, when the majority loves the Vet Zones, as YOU say, why they are.....empty???
They AREN'T empty, who told you they were? Every time I post in chat for a group I get a reply in less than a minute.
I think most people just don't talk much there because they are either enjoying the game or don't want to encourage the trade spam.
Yeah, at this point I'm just going to have to say that is false. ZOS knows there is a real problem with the population of vet zones. That is why the change is happening.11 -
Caduryn✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »Ah.....the Alien.....again....
So, when the majority loves the Vet Zones, as YOU say, why they are.....empty???
They AREN'T empty, who told you they were? Every time I post in chat for a group I get a reply in less than a minute.
I think most people just don't talk much there because they are either enjoying the game or don't want to encourage the trade spam.
You must play a different Game....6 -
theyancey✭✭✭✭✭
✭OP, I disagree with you 100%. There are many of us who are here ONLY for solo content. There are many PvE players only. Many are here because they hate formal groups and raids. TESO provides some action to most everyone. To run off a large segment of the paying customer base to service your ideological purity would be to abandon their fiduciary responsibility to their stake holders. Speaking of which, this is most certainly NOT our game. It belongs to ZOS. We are simply customers. I am very slightly invested in it in that I own a bit of Providence Equity Partners in one of my institutional accounts. PEP owns 25% of Zenimax. Still, I am just another sub paying customer like everyone else.5 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Well , i want to play this game solo , end of story.
If i cant do that , then i dont have any reason to play this game.OP, I disagree with you 100%. There are many of us who are here ONLY for solo content.
You CAN solo it, if you have a MINIMAL willingness to adapt.
Veteran content has the PERFECT balance. Can be EASILY solo'd if you aren't too stubborn to refuse to dodge or block or slot some different abilities once in a while, and REWARDING to group for as it makes things fun and fast.
Lets not get into a sub-off because when it comes down to it, they will lose subs if they do it and lose subs if they don't.
But if they dumb down their game for people that refuse to adapt, they will lose MORE subs than they gain. People like that will get bored fast and move on to Wildstar or something colorful and new anyway soon enough.
Why wreck a unique and brilliantly balanced game to try and finger plug a sinking ship?
There are plenty more in the fleet!Edited by Phinix1 on July 5, 2014 9:25PM4 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Veteran zones aren't empty, they aren't as populated as the 1-50 zones, but they're certainly not... empty.[DC/NA]7 -
Kulthax✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »Gamers have been conditioned to play at a level that is easier for them to attain a certain status or achieve certain loot goals. It is not the fault of casuals or 'bads' as you call them but it is the fault of MMOs as a whole.
So not even a company with the Elder Scrolls genra name behind them has the courage to stand up to this disease?
As has been stated by @Blackwidow, they have one primary goal and that is to be profitable. Corporate America equates success to the almighty $. Adjusting their design to cater to a larger gaming population that wants these types of changes is smart from a business sense.
A game with the name Elder Scrolls could very well have changed that thought process but launch, bad press and extremely vocal players have caused Zenimax to shift their strategy and possibly their game design so that financial goals are still attainable. Edited by Kulthax on July 5, 2014 9:29PM3 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »
But if they dumb down their game for people that refuse to adapt, they will lose MORE subs than they gain.
You have no way to know that.Edited by Blackwidow on July 5, 2014 9:33PM8 -
Surinen✭✭✭
but they are not empty! they are simply constantly dragonbreaking, you, me and probably thousand of other players cannot catch their ever phasing forms but they are there, I swear, heimskr said so!Ah.....the Alien.....again....
So, when the majority loves the Vet Zones, as YOU say, why they are.....empty???
group oriented mmo? sounds like a heresy to me! I want to play The Elder Scrolls: Online, not some The Mmo Doppelganger: the elder scrolls.
in fact every dungeon/trial/whatever else will come, should have its solo version for the players interested only in the lore and shards.
that being said, the strongestitems in the game should be obtainable through long solo (with option to invite friend or two or whole group of them) quests important to the lore and story.
the only aspect of an 'mmo' I may accept is the living world full of people. no forced grouping allowed.
Missing Altmer hair colour: black: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/110900/altmer-missing-hair-colour#latest4 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »Gamers have been conditioned to play at a level that is easier for them to attain a certain status or achieve certain loot goals. It is not the fault of casuals or 'bads' as you call them but it is the fault of MMOs as a whole.
So not even a company with the Elder Scrolls genra name behind them has the courage to stand up to this disease?
As has been stated by @Blackwidow, they have one primary goal and that is to be profitable. Corporate America equates success to the almighty $. Adjusting their design to cater to a larger gaming population that wants these types of changes is smart from a business sense.
A game with the name Elder Scrolls could very well have changed that thought process but launch, bad press and extremely vocal players have caused Zenimax to shift their strategy and possibly their game design so that financial goals are still attainable.
Then ESO is doomed to fail. This is a BAD business decision masquerading as a quick and easy fix. Come monday we will see whether they choose to be subtle about it or completely roll over.
I still have faith in them at this point to make the right call.
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Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »People who want to come home from work and sleep through an online game like it is supposed to be their digital sedative HAVE their games! Rift, WoW, FFXIV, etc., etc., etc...
Why does EVERY MMO have to cater to people that want to solo everything and never have to think about strategy or game mechanics, playing "how they want" to unwind from their "hard day at work" as if we all didn't have to do it, even if that is basically having an IV drip of instant gratification attached to their refusal to engage or adapt to anything?
Why can't there actually be an MMO designed for GROUP PLAY? Or at least that challenges those MINIMALLY (veteran content is EASY if you play the game as designed) who wish to solo everything?
Make it doable, but don't make it pointless!
No risk, no reward!
Veteran content in this game was the PERFECT mix. You could EASILY solo EVERYTHING outside of instanced and public dungeons and some world bosses if you actually showed the willingness to adapt your spec to do it. There were plenty of skill points by veteran levels to have all the backup abilities you would need to keep your current play style AND have several backups to fall back on.
Plus it provided at least > 5sec combat if you DID decide to play in a group. It gave you a sense of there being a REASON to play in a group. Like it mattered if you were there to help heal or tank for someone. Sure they could do it by themselves, but they could do it much easier and much faster with less risk and potentially more fun (synergy, spell effects) because YOU were there.
Now what will we have? A bunch of every-man-for-himself faceroll soloists and meaningless characters that aren't needed for 90% of the game.
What were you THINKING ZOS?
Nerf SOLO INSTANCED QUESTS if you must, but don't destroy the perfect balance you created because paid disinformation agents from other games come onto your forums and extend the Facebook experiment on contagious negativity!
Erect the spin of growing a spine!
Dear god quit moaning man. Your going to be the reason they allow an ignore function on the forums and it will be so the devs can ignore you! We all know how you feel, you have made a hundred threads about it already.
It's going to end up being a dev decision to bar your IP address for the good of the game. They could be patch 1.5 with notes just saying barred aliendiplomat, It would be the best received patch, granted they would break stuff, but it would be worth it!12 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Well , i want to play this game solo , end of story.
If i cant do that , then i dont have any reason to play this game.OP, I disagree with you 100%. There are many of us who are here ONLY for solo content.
You CAN solo it, if you have a MINIMAL willingness to adapt.
Veteran content has the PERFECT balance. Can be EASILY solo'd if you aren't too stubborn to refuse to dodge or block or slot some different abilities once in a while, and REWARDING to group for as it makes things fun and fast.
Lets not get into a sub-off because when it comes down to it, they will lose subs if they do it and lose subs if they don't.
But if they dumb down their game for people that refuse to adapt, they will lose MORE subs than they gain. People like that will get bored fast and move on to Wildstar or something colorful and new anyway soon enough.
Why wreck a unique and brilliantly balanced game to try and finger plug a sinking ship?
There are plenty more in the fleet!
First , like i said , i already finish the "solo" veteran content , i will not "adapt" into craglorn , that is meant for groups , i want a zone for solo players.
Second , i did play the veteran content solo and if there is one thing it is not , is balanced. I faced normal mobs stronger than the bosses in the same dungeon over and over. I faced strong bosses that i could barely wound and weak ones that could not even hurt me and so on.
It is not balanced , sometimes it is easy sometimes it is too hard. If it is was actually balanced , then maybe less people would complain about it , the crazy dif jumps is the biggest problem."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor3 -
angel59✭✭✭Alien, how many more threads do you plan to start before Monday? Your issues have been addressed in at least 4 other threads. But by all means, keep saying the same things over and over and over. I am seriously beginning to wonder if there is an issue other than the game.I am impressed that you included a facebook reference. Can you include twitter in you next thread? Maybe you should go play the current ESO that you love so much before the end of the world arrives on Monday.7
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Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Censorship is the hallmark of a doomed society.
I have every right to be concerned.6 -
Morduil✭✭✭Whatever the arguments for and against the forthcoming changes to Veteran levels, I am not persuaded that the OP's seemingly unshakeable conviction in the absolute correctness of his own opinion - coupled with his (to my mind) rather distasteful apparent dismissal of any dissent as representing mental and/or physical deficiency - really warranted his having so far posted three separate threads on the same subject.
OP: if you're really determined to launch a crusade on this issue, do at least have the courtesy to restrict it all to the same thread....
(edited for typo)Edited by Morduil on July 5, 2014 10:44PM6