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I erect the spine of disappointment.
-
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Completely agree with the OP. This is the wrong way to go. It's terrible that they are nerfing the difficulty. I'd rather they removed vet levels all together and just let you do the two other factions for the skillpoints over nerfing the difficulty. That way 50 would be max level and vet content would be viewed as solo endgame content instead of required leveling necessary for pvp, trials, and to a lesser extent vet dungeons.
You have enough skill points through one factions to make a good enough build if it is focused.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points4 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
Still, I do NOT think this is what will do it for them. When 2/3 of the game ends up being a boring face roll (which is WORSE than a grind) I think they will actually lose MORE customers in the long run.
But lets see if they really do nerf it to WoW status before overreacting prematurely.
You do not seem to understand business practice much.
As much as I want this game to remain unique and not become a wow clone...if ZeniMax had a shot at even being 20% as successful as wow still is, they would take that in a heart beat, even if that means they shift to make the game more like a wow clone. And I wouldn't blame them. Wow still has what? 6 to 8 million subscribers? That is like 90 million or more at 15 a month. Even at 20%, that is around 15 million reasons a month to cater to what you call "care bears". In the business world we refer to them as the customer.5 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Look at it this way, guys.
When they get around to nerfing your builds, Vet Content might be hard again.
OPTIMISM!Edited by ShedsHisTail on July 4, 2014 1:33AM"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?6 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
Still, I do NOT think this is what will do it for them. When 2/3 of the game ends up being a boring face roll (which is WORSE than a grind) I think they will actually lose MORE customers in the long run.
But lets see if they really do nerf it to WoW status before overreacting prematurely.
You do not seem to understand business practice much.
As much as I want this game to remain unique and not become a wow clone...if ZeniMax had a shot at even being 20% as successful as wow still is, they would take that in a heart beat, even if that means they shift to make the game more like a wow clone. And I wouldn't blame them. Wow still has what? 6 to 8 million subscribers? That is like 90 million or more at 15 a month. Even at 20%, that is around 15 million reasons a month to cater to what you call "care bears". In the business world we refer to them as the customer.
Oh, I understand business a great deal better than you might think.
There are MANY factors that contribute to WoW's popularity, not the least of which being the diverse range of gaming gear it will run on. Heck, I can run WoW on my IMB Thinkpad from 2002!
Also, WoW has actually been hemorrhaging subscribers (down over 4 MILLION) since this last flop of an expansion.
#1 complaint:
"They made everything too easy."4 -
brandon✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
Still, I do NOT think this is what will do it for them. When 2/3 of the game ends up being a boring face roll (which is WORSE than a grind) I think they will actually lose MORE customers in the long run.
But lets see if they really do nerf it to WoW status before overreacting prematurely.
You do not seem to understand business practice much.
As much as I want this game to remain unique and not become a wow clone...if ZeniMax had a shot at even being 20% as successful as wow still is, they would take that in a heart beat, even if that means they shift to make the game more like a wow clone. And I wouldn't blame them. Wow still has what? 6 to 8 million subscribers? That is like 90 million or more at 15 a month. Even at 20%, that is around 15 million reasons a month to cater to what you call "care bears". In the business world we refer to them as the customer.
Well the care bear customers may come back, but then they lose the real customers. The real customers are the majority here the ones they need to watch out for.5 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
Still, I do NOT think this is what will do it for them. When 2/3 of the game ends up being a boring face roll (which is WORSE than a grind) I think they will actually lose MORE customers in the long run.
But lets see if they really do nerf it to WoW status before overreacting prematurely.
You do not seem to understand business practice much.
As much as I want this game to remain unique and not become a wow clone...if ZeniMax had a shot at even being 20% as successful as wow still is, they would take that in a heart beat, even if that means they shift to make the game more like a wow clone. And I wouldn't blame them. Wow still has what? 6 to 8 million subscribers? That is like 90 million or more at 15 a month. Even at 20%, that is around 15 million reasons a month to cater to what you call "care bears". In the business world we refer to them as the customer.
Oh, I understand business a great deal better than you might think.
There are MANY factors that contribute to WoW's popularity, not the least of which being the diverse range of gaming gear it will run on. Heck, I can run WoW on my IMB Thinkpad from 2002!
Also, WoW has actually been hemorrhaging subscribers (down over 4 MILLION) since this last flop of an expansion.
#1 complaint:
"They made everything too easy."
1.8 Million, actually.
They lost about 1.8 million subscriptions since December 2012.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?2 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
Still, I do NOT think this is what will do it for them. When 2/3 of the game ends up being a boring face roll (which is WORSE than a grind) I think they will actually lose MORE customers in the long run.
But lets see if they really do nerf it to WoW status before overreacting prematurely.
You do not seem to understand business practice much.
As much as I want this game to remain unique and not become a wow clone...if ZeniMax had a shot at even being 20% as successful as wow still is, they would take that in a heart beat, even if that means they shift to make the game more like a wow clone. And I wouldn't blame them. Wow still has what? 6 to 8 million subscribers? That is like 90 million or more at 15 a month. Even at 20%, that is around 15 million reasons a month to cater to what you call "care bears". In the business world we refer to them as the customer.
Oh, I understand business a great deal better than you might think.
There are MANY factors that contribute to WoW's popularity, not the least of which being the diverse range of gaming gear it will run on. Heck, I can run WoW on my IMB Thinkpad from 2002!
Also, WoW has actually been hemorrhaging subscribers (down over 4 MILLION) since this last flop of an expansion.
#1 complaint:
"They made everything too easy."
1.8 Million, actually.
They lost about 1.8 million subscriptions since December 2012.
Not to quibble over unrelated details but...
World of Warcraft subscribers
Down to 7.6 million from the peak of 12 million during Wrath.
Regardless, the most common reason given has been "they made it too easy."
EDIT: Perhaps ZOS is just following a trend. Have a successful franchise, enjoy some personal wealth, start a family, have some kids, "hey I know, lets re-balance our game so the kids have something to enjoy!"
A tin foil hat explanation of why all MMO's inevitably end up balanced to the difficulty level appropriate to five year olds?
(That was intended as a joke just to lighten things up a little.)Edited by Phinix1 on July 4, 2014 1:45AM2 -
Gwarok✭✭✭Up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, X, O, X, O"Strive for balance of all things. When the scales tip to one side or the other, someone or somethings gets short-changed. When someone gets short-changed, unpredictability and strife unbalance the world around us...To achieve freedom from greed, from want, and from strife, all parties in any exchange MUST find balance." -House Hlaalu's Philosophy of Trade
"I am ALWAYS very busy, so I KNOW what's best. You need to stay away from the waterfall. TRUST ME, you're better off keeping busy than playing in the stream....Do you know how to swim, Little Scrib?"
"I am but a simple farmer". -Rags'nar LodesBroke
#SKOOMA!
(Juliet):
...it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man.
O, be some other name!
What's in a name?
That which we call a rose?
By any other name would smell as sweet.
Retain that dear perfection to which he owes...
(Act II, Scene II -William Shakespeare's: Romeo & Juliet -1595 A.D.)3 -
Enkil✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
Still, I do NOT think this is what will do it for them. When 2/3 of the game ends up being a boring face roll (which is WORSE than a grind) I think they will actually lose MORE customers in the long run.
But lets see if they really do nerf it to WoW status before overreacting prematurely.
You do not seem to understand business practice much.
As much as I want this game to remain unique and not become a wow clone...if ZeniMax had a shot at even being 20% as successful as wow still is, they would take that in a heart beat, even if that means they shift to make the game more like a wow clone. And I wouldn't blame them. Wow still has what? 6 to 8 million subscribers? That is like 90 million or more at 15 a month. Even at 20%, that is around 15 million reasons a month to cater to what you call "care bears". In the business world we refer to them as the customer.
Well the care bear customers may come back, but then they lose the real customers. The real customers are the majority here the ones they need to watch out for.
Carebears are people that don't like PvP and just play the game to PvE. This discussion is all about changes to PvE. Just because someone wants PvE to be difficult doesn't mean they are a real player and the one that wants to get it over quickly so they can be max for PvP is a carebear. I think you've mixed up your attempt to be pejorative.3 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
Still, I do NOT think this is what will do it for them. When 2/3 of the game ends up being a boring face roll (which is WORSE than a grind) I think they will actually lose MORE customers in the long run.
But lets see if they really do nerf it to WoW status before overreacting prematurely.
You do not seem to understand business practice much.
As much as I want this game to remain unique and not become a wow clone...if ZeniMax had a shot at even being 20% as successful as wow still is, they would take that in a heart beat, even if that means they shift to make the game more like a wow clone. And I wouldn't blame them. Wow still has what? 6 to 8 million subscribers? That is like 90 million or more at 15 a month. Even at 20%, that is around 15 million reasons a month to cater to what you call "care bears". In the business world we refer to them as the customer.
Oh, I understand business a great deal better than you might think.
There are MANY factors that contribute to WoW's popularity, not the least of which being the diverse range of gaming gear it will run on. Heck, I can run WoW on my IMB Thinkpad from 2002!
Also, WoW has actually been hemorrhaging subscribers (down over 4 MILLION) since this last flop of an expansion.
#1 complaint:
"They made everything too easy."
1.8 Million, actually.
They lost about 1.8 million subscriptions since December 2012.
Not to quibble over unrelated details but...
World of Warcraft subscribers
Down to 7.6 million from the peak of 12 million during Wrath.
Regardless, the most common reason given has been "they made it too easy."
Which is not what you said. You said, "since this last flop of an expansion." ie: Pandaria
Not to quibble. . ."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?2 -
Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
Still, I do NOT think this is what will do it for them. When 2/3 of the game ends up being a boring face roll (which is WORSE than a grind) I think they will actually lose MORE customers in the long run.
But lets see if they really do nerf it to WoW status before overreacting prematurely.
You do not seem to understand business practice much.
As much as I want this game to remain unique and not become a wow clone...if ZeniMax had a shot at even being 20% as successful as wow still is, they would take that in a heart beat, even if that means they shift to make the game more like a wow clone. And I wouldn't blame them. Wow still has what? 6 to 8 million subscribers? That is like 90 million or more at 15 a month. Even at 20%, that is around 15 million reasons a month to cater to what you call "care bears". In the business world we refer to them as the customer.
Oh, I understand business a great deal better than you might think.
There are MANY factors that contribute to WoW's popularity, not the least of which being the diverse range of gaming gear it will run on. Heck, I can run WoW on my IMB Thinkpad from 2002!
Also, WoW has actually been hemorrhaging subscribers (down over 4 MILLION) since this last flop of an expansion.
#1 complaint:
"They made everything too easy."
1.8 Million, actually.
They lost about 1.8 million subscriptions since December 2012.
Not to quibble over unrelated details but...
World of Warcraft subscribers
Down to 7.6 million from the peak of 12 million during Wrath.
Regardless, the most common reason given has been "they made it too easy."
It's more than just content difficulty that was changed though. There were the talents that were removed, the homiginization of the classes, no longer needing to buy spells and abilities, no longer needing to do class related quests, making achievements, mounts and pets account wide, no longer needing to level up weapons to use them, removing keys and attunements, and adding in a dungeon finder and raid finder. In place of these things they just added mindless daily quest grinding. They took out a lot of the challenge of the game. And now they even give you level 90 completely eliminating the need to level your character and actually become attached to it. People just get bored and leave because the game is doing too much of the work for you.Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
0.016%2 -
brandon✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
Still, I do NOT think this is what will do it for them. When 2/3 of the game ends up being a boring face roll (which is WORSE than a grind) I think they will actually lose MORE customers in the long run.
But lets see if they really do nerf it to WoW status before overreacting prematurely.
You do not seem to understand business practice much.
As much as I want this game to remain unique and not become a wow clone...if ZeniMax had a shot at even being 20% as successful as wow still is, they would take that in a heart beat, even if that means they shift to make the game more like a wow clone. And I wouldn't blame them. Wow still has what? 6 to 8 million subscribers? That is like 90 million or more at 15 a month. Even at 20%, that is around 15 million reasons a month to cater to what you call "care bears". In the business world we refer to them as the customer.
Oh, I understand business a great deal better than you might think.
There are MANY factors that contribute to WoW's popularity, not the least of which being the diverse range of gaming gear it will run on. Heck, I can run WoW on my IMB Thinkpad from 2002!
Also, WoW has actually been hemorrhaging subscribers (down over 4 MILLION) since this last flop of an expansion.
#1 complaint:
"They made everything too easy."
1.8 Million, actually.
They lost about 1.8 million subscriptions since December 2012.
Not to quibble over unrelated details but...
World of Warcraft subscribers
Down to 7.6 million from the peak of 12 million during Wrath.
Regardless, the most common reason given has been "they made it too easy."
EDIT: Perhaps ZOS is just following a trend. Have a successful franchise, enjoy some personal wealth, start a family, have some kids, "hey I know, lets re-balance our game so the kids have something to enjoy!"
A tin foil hat explanation of why all MMO's inevitably end up balanced to the difficulty level appropriate to five year olds?
(That was intended as a joke just to lighten things up a little.)
I want wow to go down then maybe people will learn not to make games easy. I'm so sick of pathetic players thinking everything is hard when honestly they just suck.3 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
Still, I do NOT think this is what will do it for them. When 2/3 of the game ends up being a boring face roll (which is WORSE than a grind) I think they will actually lose MORE customers in the long run.
But lets see if they really do nerf it to WoW status before overreacting prematurely.
You do not seem to understand business practice much.
As much as I want this game to remain unique and not become a wow clone...if ZeniMax had a shot at even being 20% as successful as wow still is, they would take that in a heart beat, even if that means they shift to make the game more like a wow clone. And I wouldn't blame them. Wow still has what? 6 to 8 million subscribers? That is like 90 million or more at 15 a month. Even at 20%, that is around 15 million reasons a month to cater to what you call "care bears". In the business world we refer to them as the customer.
Oh, I understand business a great deal better than you might think.
There are MANY factors that contribute to WoW's popularity, not the least of which being the diverse range of gaming gear it will run on. Heck, I can run WoW on my IMB Thinkpad from 2002!
Also, WoW has actually been hemorrhaging subscribers (down over 4 MILLION) since this last flop of an expansion.
#1 complaint:
"They made everything too easy."
1.8 Million, actually.
They lost about 1.8 million subscriptions since December 2012.
Not to quibble over unrelated details but...
World of Warcraft subscribers
Down to 7.6 million from the peak of 12 million during Wrath.
Regardless, the most common reason given has been "they made it too easy."
Which is not what you said. You said, "since this last flop of an expansion." ie: Pandaria
Not to quibble. . .
Sure, sure. The downward slide actually started with the previous expansion, Cataclysm. I completely forgot about that one, as I was one of the many players that left after Wrath.
Reason: They made it too easy.2 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
Still, I do NOT think this is what will do it for them. When 2/3 of the game ends up being a boring face roll (which is WORSE than a grind) I think they will actually lose MORE customers in the long run.
But lets see if they really do nerf it to WoW status before overreacting prematurely.
You do not seem to understand business practice much.
As much as I want this game to remain unique and not become a wow clone...if ZeniMax had a shot at even being 20% as successful as wow still is, they would take that in a heart beat, even if that means they shift to make the game more like a wow clone. And I wouldn't blame them. Wow still has what? 6 to 8 million subscribers? That is like 90 million or more at 15 a month. Even at 20%, that is around 15 million reasons a month to cater to what you call "care bears". In the business world we refer to them as the customer.
Well the care bear customers may come back, but then they lose the real customers. The real customers are the majority here the ones they need to watch out for.
Is this indicative the "real" customers to which you refer? It's the image that comes to mind for those of us over 35, when we see posts like yours. Believe it or not, its quite likely that the "care bear" casual gamers of which you're so readily dismissive make up a significant portion of the player base.
Alienating them simply isn't good business practice for producers of an MMO advertising itself as "Play as you want."
IMO, the developers would have been better off making a difficulty slider, as we saw in the last few TES releases. But I know, I know - the epeens of the "leet" gamers would then be threatened to see "care bears" in their neck of the woods.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"4 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
Still, I do NOT think this is what will do it for them. When 2/3 of the game ends up being a boring face roll (which is WORSE than a grind) I think they will actually lose MORE customers in the long run.
But lets see if they really do nerf it to WoW status before overreacting prematurely.
You do not seem to understand business practice much.
As much as I want this game to remain unique and not become a wow clone...if ZeniMax had a shot at even being 20% as successful as wow still is, they would take that in a heart beat, even if that means they shift to make the game more like a wow clone. And I wouldn't blame them. Wow still has what? 6 to 8 million subscribers? That is like 90 million or more at 15 a month. Even at 20%, that is around 15 million reasons a month to cater to what you call "care bears". In the business world we refer to them as the customer.
Oh, I understand business a great deal better than you might think.
There are MANY factors that contribute to WoW's popularity, not the least of which being the diverse range of gaming gear it will run on. Heck, I can run WoW on my IMB Thinkpad from 2002!
Also, WoW has actually been hemorrhaging subscribers (down over 4 MILLION) since this last flop of an expansion.
#1 complaint:
"They made everything too easy."
1.8 Million, actually.
They lost about 1.8 million subscriptions since December 2012.
Not to quibble over unrelated details but...
World of Warcraft subscribers
Down to 7.6 million from the peak of 12 million during Wrath.
Regardless, the most common reason given has been "they made it too easy."
Which is not what you said. You said, "since this last flop of an expansion." ie: Pandaria
Not to quibble. . .
Sure, sure. The downward slide actually started with the previous expansion, Cataclysm. I completely forgot about that one, as I was one of the many players that left after Wrath.
Reason: They made it too easy.
Cataclysm was all around terrible.
The ease of play was the least of that expansions problems."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?1 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭They took out a lot of the challenge of the game. And now they even give you level 90 completely eliminating the need to level your character and actually become attached to it. People just get bored and leave because the game is doing too much of the work for you.
Perhaps that could work here, give people the option to buy their VR12 rank when they hit 50. No more boring grind, VR quests become optional.[DC/NA]2 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IMO, the developers would have been better off making a difficulty slider, as we saw in the last few TES releases. But I know, I know - the epeens of the "leet" gamers would then be threatened to see "care bears" in their neck of the woods.
I couldn't care less about epeen or "leetness" or any other stereotype someone wants to throw around to support their arguments.
I enjoy the veteran challenge because it is FUN. It requires MINIMAL thinking and a willingness to ADAPT. Try new things. Develop a strategy.
Hell I solo most world bosses in veteran 7-8 content as it is, and that is with a non-standard build that does NOT use elemental ring spam OR volcanic rune OR pets.
Why does everything have to be reduced to being like "every other MMO." Why can't a company stick to its guns for once, show some courage, and erect a freakin' spine?
Luckily my sub runs out on the 10th. That gives me three days to see how badly they screw this up and decide whether I want to stick with the game and franchise I love, or suck it up and move on.
I will give ZOS that chance not to hamfist this up.Edited by Phinix1 on July 4, 2014 1:57AM6 -
brandon✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
Still, I do NOT think this is what will do it for them. When 2/3 of the game ends up being a boring face roll (which is WORSE than a grind) I think they will actually lose MORE customers in the long run.
But lets see if they really do nerf it to WoW status before overreacting prematurely.
You do not seem to understand business practice much.
As much as I want this game to remain unique and not become a wow clone...if ZeniMax had a shot at even being 20% as successful as wow still is, they would take that in a heart beat, even if that means they shift to make the game more like a wow clone. And I wouldn't blame them. Wow still has what? 6 to 8 million subscribers? That is like 90 million or more at 15 a month. Even at 20%, that is around 15 million reasons a month to cater to what you call "care bears". In the business world we refer to them as the customer.
Well the care bear customers may come back, but then they lose the real customers. The real customers are the majority here the ones they need to watch out for.
Carebears are people that don't like PvP and just play the game to PvE. This discussion is all about changes to PvE. Just because someone wants PvE to be difficult doesn't mean they are a real player and the one that wants to get it over quickly so they can be max for PvP is a carebear. I think you've mixed up your attempt to be pejorative.
@Enkil
I play pvp and pve. I am tired of people wanting things to be easy because they want to get to pvp. Players who rush to endgame so they can pvp and want pve to be easy are a plague on mmos. They tend to forget that this is an mmoRPG. Players who only pvp are the true care bears.1 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »IMO, the developers would have been better off making a difficulty slider, as we saw in the last few TES releases. But I know, I know - the epeens of the "leet" gamers would then be threatened to see "care bears" in their neck of the woods.
I couldn't care less about epeen or "leetness" or any other stereotype someone wants to throw around to support their arguments.
I enjoy the veteran challenge because it is FUN. It requires MINIMAL thinking and a willingness to ADAPT. Try new things. Develop a strategy.
Hell I solo most world bosses in veteran 7-8 content as it is, and that is with a non-standard build that does NOT use elemental ring spam OR volcanic rune OR pets.
Why does everything have to be reduced to being like "every other MMO." Why can't a company stick to its guns for once, show some courage, and erect a freakin' spine?
Luckily my sub runs out on the 10th. That gives me three days to see how badly they screw this up and decide whether I want to stick with the game and franchise I love, or suck it up and move on.
I will give ZOS that chance not to hamfist this up.
Then what's wrong with including a difficulty slider for those who want to play a game and just unwind at the end of a long working day?
Leave the choice to the player.
Else, don't be shocked with the nerf-hammer comes out in full-force.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"3 -
brandon✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
Still, I do NOT think this is what will do it for them. When 2/3 of the game ends up being a boring face roll (which is WORSE than a grind) I think they will actually lose MORE customers in the long run.
But lets see if they really do nerf it to WoW status before overreacting prematurely.
You do not seem to understand business practice much.
As much as I want this game to remain unique and not become a wow clone...if ZeniMax had a shot at even being 20% as successful as wow still is, they would take that in a heart beat, even if that means they shift to make the game more like a wow clone. And I wouldn't blame them. Wow still has what? 6 to 8 million subscribers? That is like 90 million or more at 15 a month. Even at 20%, that is around 15 million reasons a month to cater to what you call "care bears". In the business world we refer to them as the customer.
Well the care bear customers may come back, but then they lose the real customers. The real customers are the majority here the ones they need to watch out for.
Is this indicative the "real" customers to which you refer? It's the image that comes to mind for those of us over 35, when we see posts like yours. Believe it or not, its quite likely that the "care bear" casual gamers of which you're so readily dismissive make up a significant portion of the player base.
Alienating them simply isn't good business practice for producers of an MMO advertising itself as "Play as you want."
IMO, the developers would have been better off making a difficulty slider, as we saw in the last few TES releases. But I know, I know - the epeens of the "leet" gamers would then be threatened to see "care bears" in their neck of the woods.
@Greysix
As surprising to you as it may be I wouldn't mind a difficulty slider. No that picture is not indicative at all. Me and a lot of "Leet" gamers as you put it don't want games nerfed because casuals choose not to put the time into it. Another surprising thing to you might be the fact that a lot of the "leet" gamers aren't fat basements dwellers most of us have a life outside of games.3 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭IMO, the developers would have been better off making a difficulty slider, as we saw in the last few TES releases. But I know, I know - the epeens of the "leet" gamers would then be threatened to see "care bears" in their neck of the woods.
By no means do I consider myself "leet" but I enjoy the difficulty. While I can't see a difficulty slider working great in this games setup, I support anything that lets us all be happy. If I can continue to face difficult content, while other people get their desires fulfilled, great!
I haven't seen many people arguing that there shouldn't be a middle ground, but this change they've described is no middle ground, we lose, you guys win.
The best thing I've heard was to add NPC companions which you can hire to bring with you. So people who felt the need could use that to lower the difficulty factor.Edited by badmojo on July 4, 2014 2:01AM[DC/NA]2 -
Anastasia✭✭✭✭While your opinion is important, I'm glad they took in a wide array of opinions and got a feel for what the majority of players want. It's too bad there isn't a difficulty slider like in single player games to allow the tailoring of difficulty to each player.
**Taking into consideration suggestions and ideas from the player base would seem important to me as well. Your suggestion AngryWolf of some sort of slider or other option for a choice of difficulty would have been much more preferable if possible. That also may have, MAY HAVE, prevented some of what inevitably will be remorse for many players for what this game was supposed to be.
I have to say I'm surprised but holding out for more information. I do not understand what this sudden turn about means, or how it relates in any way to everything this MMO was up until this afternoons' announcement. Confusion reigns now with what we really had, have and/or will be seeing TESO morph into.
We will see next week. ;o/
1 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »IMO, the developers would have been better off making a difficulty slider, as we saw in the last few TES releases. But I know, I know - the epeens of the "leet" gamers would then be threatened to see "care bears" in their neck of the woods.
I couldn't care less about epeen or "leetness" or any other stereotype someone wants to throw around to support their arguments.
I enjoy the veteran challenge because it is FUN. It requires MINIMAL thinking and a willingness to ADAPT. Try new things. Develop a strategy.
Hell I solo most world bosses in veteran 7-8 content as it is, and that is with a non-standard build that does NOT use elemental ring spam OR volcanic rune OR pets.
Why does everything have to be reduced to being like "every other MMO." Why can't a company stick to its guns for once, show some courage, and erect a freakin' spine?
Luckily my sub runs out on the 10th. That gives me three days to see how badly they screw this up and decide whether I want to stick with the game and franchise I love, or suck it up and move on.
I will give ZOS that chance not to hamfist this up.
Then what's wrong with including a difficulty slider for those who want to play a game and just unwind at the end of a long working day?
Leave the choice to the player.
Else, don't be shocked with the nerf-hammer comes out in full-force.
I'm sorry, but are you suggesting that playing an interactive online game should require as much effort as sitting on a couch with a beer watching TV?
Because if that is what you need to "unwind" that is perfectly legit, but perhaps you should go do that and not ask players that actually enjoy being engaged to give up what makes playing fun, no offense intended.
I am fine with a difficulty slider if that is the only way to avoid my game becoming a form of pixel-based sedative.3 -
brandon✭✭✭✭IMO, the developers would have been better off making a difficulty slider, as we saw in the last few TES releases. But I know, I know - the epeens of the "leet" gamers would then be threatened to see "care bears" in their neck of the woods.
By no means do I consider myself "leet" but I enjoy the difficulty. While I can't see a difficulty slider working great in this games setup, I support anything that lets us all be happy. If I can continue to face difficult content, while other people get their desires fulfilled, great!
I haven't seen many people arguing that there shouldn't be a middle ground, but this change they've described is no middle ground, we lose, you guys win.
The best thing I've heard was to add NPC companions which you can hire to bring with you. So people who felt the need could use that to lower the difficulty factor.
They could use npc companions as a difficulty slider. The more you higher the easier the content until you dismiss them that is. I think that's a great Idea.1 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
Still, I do NOT think this is what will do it for them. When 2/3 of the game ends up being a boring face roll (which is WORSE than a grind) I think they will actually lose MORE customers in the long run.
But lets see if they really do nerf it to WoW status before overreacting prematurely.
You do not seem to understand business practice much.
As much as I want this game to remain unique and not become a wow clone...if ZeniMax had a shot at even being 20% as successful as wow still is, they would take that in a heart beat, even if that means they shift to make the game more like a wow clone. And I wouldn't blame them. Wow still has what? 6 to 8 million subscribers? That is like 90 million or more at 15 a month. Even at 20%, that is around 15 million reasons a month to cater to what you call "care bears". In the business world we refer to them as the customer.
Oh, I understand business a great deal better than you might think.
There are MANY factors that contribute to WoW's popularity, not the least of which being the diverse range of gaming gear it will run on. Heck, I can run WoW on my IMB Thinkpad from 2002!
Also, WoW has actually been hemorrhaging subscribers (down over 4 MILLION) since this last flop of an expansion.
#1 complaint:
"They made everything too easy."
You are missing my point, it is the same as the point you just made about wow...Clearly ZeniMax is getting their #1 complaint from lost subscribers is that it was too hard, hence the business decision to change. I never said I wanted it easier, I said that I dont blame them for making the what they think is the correct business decision for the company as a whole vs group of people that think, act and want to be treated as elite, and in the same breath are claiming to be the majority. By nature of the term elite, means you are the minority.3 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
Still, I do NOT think this is what will do it for them. When 2/3 of the game ends up being a boring face roll (which is WORSE than a grind) I think they will actually lose MORE customers in the long run.
But lets see if they really do nerf it to WoW status before overreacting prematurely.
You do not seem to understand business practice much.
As much as I want this game to remain unique and not become a wow clone...if ZeniMax had a shot at even being 20% as successful as wow still is, they would take that in a heart beat, even if that means they shift to make the game more like a wow clone. And I wouldn't blame them. Wow still has what? 6 to 8 million subscribers? That is like 90 million or more at 15 a month. Even at 20%, that is around 15 million reasons a month to cater to what you call "care bears". In the business world we refer to them as the customer.
Well the care bear customers may come back, but then they lose the real customers. The real customers are the majority here the ones they need to watch out for.
Is this indicative the "real" customers to which you refer? It's the image that comes to mind for those of us over 35, when we see posts like yours. Believe it or not, its quite likely that the "care bear" casual gamers of which you're so readily dismissive make up a significant portion of the player base.
Alienating them simply isn't good business practice for producers of an MMO advertising itself as "Play as you want."
IMO, the developers would have been better off making a difficulty slider, as we saw in the last few TES releases. But I know, I know - the epeens of the "leet" gamers would then be threatened to see "care bears" in their neck of the woods.
@Greysix
As surprising to you as it may be I wouldn't mind a difficulty slider. No that picture is not indicative at all. Me and a lot of "Leet" gamers as you put it don't want games nerfed because casuals choose not to put the time into it. Another surprising thing to you might be the fact that a lot of the "leet" gamers aren't fat basements dwellers most of us have a life outside of games.
Oh, I'm certain of it, but the arrogance dripping from the post to which I replied conjures such an image unbidden.
But to the topic, a slider would have answered the question for both the "elite" players and those just looking for amusement after a grinding day's work.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"3 -
Enkil✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
Still, I do NOT think this is what will do it for them. When 2/3 of the game ends up being a boring face roll (which is WORSE than a grind) I think they will actually lose MORE customers in the long run.
But lets see if they really do nerf it to WoW status before overreacting prematurely.
You do not seem to understand business practice much.
As much as I want this game to remain unique and not become a wow clone...if ZeniMax had a shot at even being 20% as successful as wow still is, they would take that in a heart beat, even if that means they shift to make the game more like a wow clone. And I wouldn't blame them. Wow still has what? 6 to 8 million subscribers? That is like 90 million or more at 15 a month. Even at 20%, that is around 15 million reasons a month to cater to what you call "care bears". In the business world we refer to them as the customer.
Well the care bear customers may come back, but then they lose the real customers. The real customers are the majority here the ones they need to watch out for.
Carebears are people that don't like PvP and just play the game to PvE. This discussion is all about changes to PvE. Just because someone wants PvE to be difficult doesn't mean they are a real player and the one that wants to get it over quickly so they can be max for PvP is a carebear. I think you've mixed up your attempt to be pejorative.
@Enkil
I play pvp and pve. I am tired of people wanting things to be easy because they want to get to pvp. Players who rush to endgame so they can pvp and want pve to be easy are a plague on mmos. They tend to forget that this is an mmoRPG. Players who only pvp are the true care bears.
Lol...2 -
brandon✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »IMO, the developers would have been better off making a difficulty slider, as we saw in the last few TES releases. But I know, I know - the epeens of the "leet" gamers would then be threatened to see "care bears" in their neck of the woods.
I couldn't care less about epeen or "leetness" or any other stereotype someone wants to throw around to support their arguments.
I enjoy the veteran challenge because it is FUN. It requires MINIMAL thinking and a willingness to ADAPT. Try new things. Develop a strategy.
Hell I solo most world bosses in veteran 7-8 content as it is, and that is with a non-standard build that does NOT use elemental ring spam OR volcanic rune OR pets.
Why does everything have to be reduced to being like "every other MMO." Why can't a company stick to its guns for once, show some courage, and erect a freakin' spine?
Luckily my sub runs out on the 10th. That gives me three days to see how badly they screw this up and decide whether I want to stick with the game and franchise I love, or suck it up and move on.
I will give ZOS that chance not to hamfist this up.
Then what's wrong with including a difficulty slider for those who want to play a game and just unwind at the end of a long working day?
Leave the choice to the player.
Else, don't be shocked with the nerf-hammer comes out in full-force.
I'm sorry, but are you suggesting that playing an interactive online game should require as much effort as sitting on a couch with a beer watching TV?
Because if that is what you need to "unwind" that is perfectly legit, but perhaps you should go do that and not ask players that actually enjoy being engaged to give up what makes playing fun, no offense intended.
I am fine with a difficulty slider if that is the only way to avoid my game becoming a form of pixel-based sedative.
That is actually a fantastic point this is an mmo it shouldn't be as easy as a lay in bed playing xbox/playstation type of game. Although like I said in another post I wouldn't mind a difficulty slider.3 -
brandon✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
Still, I do NOT think this is what will do it for them. When 2/3 of the game ends up being a boring face roll (which is WORSE than a grind) I think they will actually lose MORE customers in the long run.
But lets see if they really do nerf it to WoW status before overreacting prematurely.
You do not seem to understand business practice much.
As much as I want this game to remain unique and not become a wow clone...if ZeniMax had a shot at even being 20% as successful as wow still is, they would take that in a heart beat, even if that means they shift to make the game more like a wow clone. And I wouldn't blame them. Wow still has what? 6 to 8 million subscribers? That is like 90 million or more at 15 a month. Even at 20%, that is around 15 million reasons a month to cater to what you call "care bears". In the business world we refer to them as the customer.
Well the care bear customers may come back, but then they lose the real customers. The real customers are the majority here the ones they need to watch out for.
Carebears are people that don't like PvP and just play the game to PvE. This discussion is all about changes to PvE. Just because someone wants PvE to be difficult doesn't mean they are a real player and the one that wants to get it over quickly so they can be max for PvP is a carebear. I think you've mixed up your attempt to be pejorative.
@Enkil
I play pvp and pve. I am tired of people wanting things to be easy because they want to get to pvp. Players who rush to endgame so they can pvp and want pve to be easy are a plague on mmos. They tend to forget that this is an mmoRPG. Players who only pvp are the true care bears.
Lol...
@Enkil
Is that supposed to be an insult? If so grow up.5
