I erect the spine of disappointment.

Phinix1

So the problem was the balance between challenge and reward. Simple solution: Provide a greater reward incentive. Unique cosmetic drops, pet drops, new motif drops, more unique set bonus drops with more interesting effects...

SO many options they could have gone for but instead...

They just remove the challenge?

Veteran level balance was perfect for solo. About the only thing I wasn't facerolling already was world bosses and public dungeons, and I have solo'd 90% of those up to vet 7. Why should we have to play two more tiers of easy-mode content just because a vocal minority doesn't want to learn to block or roll dodge or play with more than 5 abilities?

What will the point of blocking or roll dodging even be?

I will reserve final judgement until I see how badly they lobotomize the game to cater to the people that seem to rather complain until someone gives them a milk bottle than suck down the mead and rise to the challenge, but I cannot help but sense the inevitable truth in this most recent concession by ZOS...

This may be the beginning of the dumbing down to WoW status of the Elder Scrolls genre.

Gremlis

Did he just say erect?

AngryWolf

While your opinion is important, I'm glad they took in a wide array of opinions and got a feel for what the majority of players want. It's too bad there isn't a difficulty slider like in single player games to allow the tailoring of difficulty to each player.

Arsenic_Touch

I second that <redacted> (can't believe it's censored..)

Instead of addressing the balance issues, they're just going to make it easier x.x
Throwing the baby out with the bath water, again.

The difficulty of the veteran content was fine, they just forgot to put a carrot on the end of the line. There were certain fights that were ridiculous but that was more based on that particular type of mob that needs tweaking.

Not to mention the whole "this enemy is too strong for that effect" is downright ridiculous when you have boss mobs that are not immune to CC effects.

Should've been more than one level per zone as well but that was an inherent design flaw that I doubt they'll correct or even be able to correct at this point.

Terminus

Most people seem to blame the enemies, when it actuality it's the way they're interacting with the world. Should you REALLY be able to use ANY build to hack through difficult enemies? Players should be encouraged to try out different combinations of abilities and tactics depending on the enemies that they face.

I hope that Zenimax is changing the difficulty of VR1-5 enemies rather than the higher ones to make a more progressive system. Otherwise, I hope that they decrease enemies' DPS while increasing their health to ensure exp and reward balance.

Nicky_W

With the risk of sounding like a L2P'er, which honestly isn't my intent, I have to agree.
I found the balance just right. Quests, solo dungeons etc were easily do-able solo.
With the exception of a few dungeons (the ones with gargoyles/Trolls in them were a challenge in Vet areas)
Dolmens and world bosses required me to either ask for help in the chat, or wait around until someone showed up..which is how they should be.

That said, me and one friend have duo'd the entire veteran content , dolmens and world bosses on 2nd characters.

I understand maybe I am the minority. My main concern is people not learning mechanics for later on in the game.
The amount of time we have picked up random players to run a dungeon who are v10-v12 rank but don't even know how to interrupt because they boosted in Craglorn worries me.
Veteran content forced me to learn and utilise these mechanics, with the challenge removed I wonder what will happen.

jelliedsoup

You cannot say erect and be taken seriously.

kaosodin

I say leave it as it... ane group.... dont want to group, play skyrim

badmojo

Agree with everything you said OP.

There's a reason I'm playing my VR2 in Auridon and not my alts that are native to that region. We already have lots of 1-50 difficulty at our fingertips, we don't need to do it three times in a row on each character.

Phinix1

This was completely the wrong direction to go.

The problem as others have said was the lack of reward proportional to the challenge, yet the challenge in itself WAS part of the reward. Actually having a game for once that asked you to use your brain, try different abilities instead of facerolling all content with the same 5 abilities, use the mechanics they gave you like roll dodge and block and develop an actual strategy.

Not only did they not add any new reward incentive, they are going to gut the rewarding game play that was actually there to look forward to?

Arsenic_Touch

jelliedsoup wrote: »

You cannot say erect and be taken seriously.

Why? because you're not mature enough? "I erect the spine of gratitude" is a phrase from the game. It's something argonian's say.

badmojo

"Erect the spine of trade" is said every 30seconds in Dhalmora.

I liked the title, sums of the situation nicely.

Tabbycat

Apparently more dollar signs disagree with the OP than agree.

Jade_Knightblazerb14_ESO

Great post OP!!

Terminus

phunkeymonkehb16_ESO wrote: »

Veteran content forced me to learn and utilise these mechanics, with the challenge removed I wonder what will happen.

What will happen?
Why, I'll gain MASSIVE amounts of AP in Cyrodiil from slaughtering them!

ShedsHisTail

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

I second that <redacted> (can't believe it's censored..)

Instead of addressing the balance issues, they're just going to make it easier x.x
Throwing the baby out with the bath water, again.

The difficulty of the veteran content was fine, they just forgot to put a carrot on the end of the line. There were certain fights that were ridiculous but that was more based on that particular type of mob that needs tweaking.

Not to mention the whole "this enemy is too strong for that effect" is downright ridiculous when you have boss mobs that are not immune to CC effects.

Should've been more than one level per zone as well but that was an inherent design flaw that I doubt they'll correct or even be able to correct at this point.

We don't know exactly what changes they'll be making yet.

All we know is that they intend to make some adjustments to make it more solo-friendly. For all we know that might just mean the essential quests for the Cadwell's lines might get nerfed but everything else stays as is. Or Maybe the delves will be made harder but open world be a bit easier.

Perhaps they actually will make adjustments on an enemy by enemy basis and correct things like the "this enemy is too strong" issues.

We don't know yet.

Can't we at least wait and see what we get before we complain about it?

badmojo

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

We don't know exactly what changes they'll be making yet.

All we know is that they intend to make some adjustments to make it more solo-friendly. For all we know that might just mean the essential quests for the Cadwell's lines might get nerfed but everything else stays as is. Or Maybe the delves will be made harder but open world be a bit easier.

Perhaps they actually will make adjustments on an enemy by enemy basis and correct things like the "this enemy is too strong" issues.

We don't know yet.

Can't we at least wait and see what we get before we complain about it?

When they say...

We’re implementing some balance changes to content in post-50 zones that will make it much more like the content from levels 1-50.

it doesn't leave much to the imagination. 1-50 got boring quick, it was a constant faceroll between bosses. Hell, I could take on world bosses my own level, SOLO!

Open the floodgates people! Start complaining! It's clearly what is needed to enact some change around here.

pinstripesc

I agree that I enjoy the difficulty as-is, but we can't get too upset with what little they've given us to go on. For instance, I totally wouldn't mind if they just cut back on how many clusters of mobs there are. 3-4 grouped up, sure, but there are 3-4 grouped up every 15 steps in a lot of places, which just makes things slow, not necessarily more difficult. Though I do agree that any rewards that actually feel like rewards would be great.

ShedsHisTail

badmojo wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

We don't know exactly what changes they'll be making yet.

All we know is that they intend to make some adjustments to make it more solo-friendly. For all we know that might just mean the essential quests for the Cadwell's lines might get nerfed but everything else stays as is. Or Maybe the delves will be made harder but open world be a bit easier.

Perhaps they actually will make adjustments on an enemy by enemy basis and correct things like the "this enemy is too strong" issues.

We don't know yet.

Can't we at least wait and see what we get before we complain about it?

When they say...

We’re implementing some balance changes to content in post-50 zones that will make it much more like the content from levels 1-50.

it doesn't leave much to the imagination. 1-50 got boring quick, it was a constant faceroll between bosses. Hell, I could take on world bosses my own level, SOLO!

Open the floodgates people! Start complaining! It's clearly what is needed to enact some change around here.

Yeah, see, though... One of the biggest compaints about VR Zones wasn't the difficulty, it was the inconsistency of said difficulty.

1-50 was pretty consistent. Perhaps that's the big change; maybe they're making the challenge more consistent. Fewer random, seemingly impossible spikes, and fewer lulls in the action?


Again, we don't know...

Loco_Mofo

I completely agree with you OP.

And bonus points for using 'erect' in your title.

jelliedsoup

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

You cannot say erect and be taken seriously.

Why? because you're not mature enough? "I erect the spine of gratitude" is a phrase from the game. It's something argonian's say.

Yes that's exactly why. Do lizards get ***?

jelliedsoup

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

You cannot say erect and be taken seriously.

Why? because you're not mature enough? "I erect the spine of gratitude" is a phrase from the game. It's something argonian's say.

Yes that's exactly why. Do lizards get stiffys?

Impressive.

Phinix1

Part of why this hurts so much is that they didn't even bother with a PTS trial run of these changes. They just listened to the vocal minority of whiners and dumped this on us. As I have said, I will reserve final judgement until I see how badly they nerf it...

But if they make this WoW easy, I am gone.

I am already solo'ing most world bosses up to veteran 7. There has only been one so far that really gave me trouble and that is because she was an OP caster who used fire magic.

Really saddened by this news.

badmojo

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

We don't know exactly what changes they'll be making yet.

All we know is that they intend to make some adjustments to make it more solo-friendly. For all we know that might just mean the essential quests for the Cadwell's lines might get nerfed but everything else stays as is. Or Maybe the delves will be made harder but open world be a bit easier.

Perhaps they actually will make adjustments on an enemy by enemy basis and correct things like the "this enemy is too strong" issues.

We don't know yet.

Can't we at least wait and see what we get before we complain about it?

When they say...

We’re implementing some balance changes to content in post-50 zones that will make it much more like the content from levels 1-50.

it doesn't leave much to the imagination. 1-50 got boring quick, it was a constant faceroll between bosses. Hell, I could take on world bosses my own level, SOLO!

Open the floodgates people! Start complaining! It's clearly what is needed to enact some change around here.

Yeah, see, though... One of the biggest compaints about VR Zones wasn't the difficulty, it was the inconsistency of said difficulty.

1-50 was pretty consistent. Perhaps that's the big change; maybe they're making the challenge more consistent. Fewer random, seemingly impossible spikes, and fewer lulls in the action?


Again, we don't know...

1-50 wasn't consistent. Unless you mean that everything being extremely easy is consistency.

You might not know, but for someone like me who absolutely LOVES the difficulty of VR, I know I'm not going to like it when they say what they said.

traigusb14_ESO2

Not trying to be a jerk to the OP (i'm putting this out there to everyone), as I ahve no idea what he/she played

I would like to see the class/ weapon/ armor and alliance (there are different bottleneck baddies depending on the zone order) of everyone that complains that it will be too easy.

I just finished EP VR12 with a Heavy armor Templar with sword and board. (Yes I know it is supposed to be impossible, especially since I don't even own volcanic rune) I didn't solo a VR9 Whispmother and *(&^^(*&$ Hadran and his pet healer at VR 10. Soloed everything else that wasn't group content.

90%+ of the people I have played with doing dolmens, pub dungeons, world bosses etc. since VR5 have been bathrobe resto/destros with volcanic rune. It is easy to say L2P and it is just fine when you are using THE OP AOE spam build. Let me ask... if they nerf that combo for balance... how good will the current VR difficulty be? What % of players would actually be able to do VR with a real balanced build?

---

That being said, the other 10% were really badass, NB, DKs and Temps going uphill in the snow (both ways).

The 2nd set of VR zones are stupid hard. Healers that instaheal themselves or others (oops got a group of randomly generated 3 healers!) Casters that can 1 shot anyone without tank level HP. I just soloed 35ish VR10 Stormies working on my Monster hunter title (AD Reaper's March is my VR10 zone for EP, there are also tons in a dungeon in VR5 Bango). That is crazytown for most builds.

I think if they Make VR 10 around where VR 5-6 is now and scale VR1-5 to be in between faceroll 50 and current VR1-2, a lot more people will be able to participate without making it a 1 button faceroll. (A friend of mine leveled a temp recently 1-50 basically spamming jabs, even before the heals were added.)

Craiglorn feels about VR5 to me, so the scale will be about the same when peopel hit VR11.

---

TLDR (...because you have the attention span of a gnat. Take your Ritalin...)

Being a resto/destro bathrobe w/ volcanic rune idiot doesn't let you say LTP.

I did VR12 with a hard class and enjoyed it, but understand that most people can't /won't do that.

2/3 of the game can't be too hard for the average player and expect to retain customers.

Ser Lobo

I will argue that it's only one option they could have taken. But if they had decided to increase rewards, instead of decreasing difficulty, it's very likely that there would be a slew of posts and posters arguing the other way.

It's easier for most to see their views and opinions and understand the logical arguments for what we believe. It's common for us to see ourselves as a majority, mainly because many of us choose to associate with those like us, and ignore/avoid those not. And it's very rare to find someone who can look at an opposing viewpoint as if it has enough weight and merit and is as legitimate as their own.

As you can see from my sig, I believe the equation had two ends: reward, versus difficulty. I don't know if ZOS is moving the right numbers, but it's one way to fix the equation.

circilion

AngryWolf wrote: »

While your opinion is important, I'm glad they took in a wide array of opinions and got a feel for what the majority of players want. It's too bad there isn't a difficulty slider like in single player games to allow the tailoring of difficulty to each player.

Wow, you are the captain of political correctness.

1. Of course his opinion isn't important, it may contradict your own!

2. Who cares if they made an adjustment that is complimentary to the play style of the majority. Is it conducive to the way you play?

3. I congratulate you on being a considerate person, who objectively posts on issues, but I think you may be the only one who does.

nudel

Given ZOS' long previous history of overnerfs, this does not bode well for any sort of challenging play outside of PVP.

If they plan on doing this, we seriously need some sort of difficulty slider with different phases depending on which you pick.

badmojo

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

I would like to see the class/ weapon/ armor and alliance (there are different bottleneck baddies depending on the zone order) of everyone that complains that it will be too easy.

Night blade / Dual Daggers / Medium armor / DC

I'm only at VR2, but I've only died once from being stupid and testing out different strategies. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say it's easy, but that's exactly why I love it so much, the difficulty.

I'd love to play more ranks/areas to get a better idea of the higher levels, but it's looking like that will never happen, now.

ShedsHisTail

badmojo wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

We don't know exactly what changes they'll be making yet.

All we know is that they intend to make some adjustments to make it more solo-friendly. For all we know that might just mean the essential quests for the Cadwell's lines might get nerfed but everything else stays as is. Or Maybe the delves will be made harder but open world be a bit easier.

Perhaps they actually will make adjustments on an enemy by enemy basis and correct things like the "this enemy is too strong" issues.

We don't know yet.

Can't we at least wait and see what we get before we complain about it?

When they say...

We’re implementing some balance changes to content in post-50 zones that will make it much more like the content from levels 1-50.

it doesn't leave much to the imagination. 1-50 got boring quick, it was a constant faceroll between bosses. Hell, I could take on world bosses my own level, SOLO!

Open the floodgates people! Start complaining! It's clearly what is needed to enact some change around here.

Yeah, see, though... One of the biggest compaints about VR Zones wasn't the difficulty, it was the inconsistency of said difficulty.

1-50 was pretty consistent. Perhaps that's the big change; maybe they're making the challenge more consistent. Fewer random, seemingly impossible spikes, and fewer lulls in the action?


Again, we don't know...

1-50 wasn't consistent. Unless you mean that everything being extremely easy is consistency.

You might not know, but for someone like me who absolutely LOVES the difficulty of VR, I know I'm not going to like it when they say what they said.

Don't get me wrong, I like the difficulty, too. I love the sense of accomplishment when complete a difficult task.

That said, before I hit VR levels I wasn't sure I was going to like it mainly because of all the complaints. Which resulted in me being pleasantly surprised when it wasn't as bad as expected.

I'm taking a similar viewpoint here. I'm not going to get worked up before I get a chance to play it. Baseless complaining doesn't do any good.

jelliedsoup

The slider is what class you pick. Dk with standard, dragon blood and talons is easy as you don't need to move and only need to press 3 buttons.