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I erect the spine of disappointment.
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Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
Edited by Phinix1 on July 4, 2014 12:57AM6 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's not baseless complaining when they are that specific about what their goal is.[DC/NA]2 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »Part of why this hurts so much is that they didn't even bother with a PTS trial run of these changes. They just listened to the vocal minority of whiners and dumped this on us. As I have said, I will reserve final judgement until I see how badly they nerf it...
But if they make this WoW easy, I am gone.
I am already solo'ing most world bosses up to veteran 7. There has only been one so far that really gave me trouble and that is because she was an OP caster who used fire magic.
Really saddened by this news.
You keep spamming this term. Vocal Minority. Vocal Minority. Vocal Minority. Do you have any facts what so ever to back this claim up? You guys love to insist that forum posts mean nothing because its a small % of the game players when it suits your purpose.
Yet when something happens you don't like, well all of a sudden it's the all powerful vocal minority. There is this thing in the game called /feedback. Every single player that pays a subscription has access to this and is encouraged to use it.
9 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭jelliedsoup wrote: »The slider is what class you pick. Dk with standard, dragon blood and talons is easy as you don't need to move and only need to press 3 buttons.
yes and i,m willing to bet all the heroes who are now moaning it,ll be too easy for them picked easy mode for themselves right out the bag. by playing Dk/sorc and using the most OP builds...
6 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
7 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jelliedsoup wrote: »The slider is what class you pick. Dk with standard, dragon blood and talons is easy as you don't need to move and only need to press 3 buttons.
yes and i,m willing to bet all the heroes who are now moaning it,ll be too easy for them picked easy mode for themselves right out the bag. by playing Dk/sorc and using the most OP builds...
Nightblade, thank you very much, and when I DO play my Sorcerer it is as a Dark magic CC-based crit build WITHOUT elemental ring (staff AOE).
Veteran content was NOT too hard so long as you didn't expect to just ignore the mechanics and not dodge obvious wind-up and ground-effect abilities and live.
So sad they caved to this... I have lost a LOT of faith in ZOS.
But I'll wait to see how it turns out. I will give them the chance to not screw this up too badly.
5 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's not baseless complaining when they are that specific about what their goal is.
Concur. From the very start, I've been consistent in my request NOT to nerf anything, but rather to enable cooperative play where currently solo play is forced.
But the developers have just as consistently ignored that very reasonable request, and thus this gigantic nerf-hammer was amusingly predictable.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"5 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway...
Right now, it's you. You and the folks who have suddenly crawled out of the woodwork to talk about how much you love the difficulty of VR content. Where were you for the last three months when everyone was complaining about it being too hard?
Were you here articulately expressing your opposing opinion to those who were frustrated with the challenge? Or were you completely silent on the issue? Or were you smugly posting "l2p"?"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?10 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
Still, I do NOT think this is what will do it for them. When 2/3 of the game ends up being a boring face roll (which is WORSE than a grind) I think they will actually lose MORE customers in the long run.
But lets see if they really do nerf it to WoW status before overreacting prematurely.6 -
traigusb14_ESO2✭✭✭✭✭traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »I would like to see the class/ weapon/ armor and alliance (there are different bottleneck baddies depending on the zone order) of everyone that complains that it will be too easy.
Night blade / Dual Daggers / Medium armor / DC
I'm only at VR2, but I've only died once from being stupid and testing out different strategies. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say it's easy, but that's exactly why I love it so much, the difficulty.
I'd love to play more ranks/areas to get a better idea of the higher levels, but it's looking like that will never happen, now.
They are going to scale it back, not make it level 51, so you should still see quite a bit of upswing from VR2
VR 5-6 is where normally solid well thought out builds start to break down to just plain crack buffed baddies. The people I know that quit didn't do it until 2nd VR set.
VR 9 and 10, every trash fight has to go perfectly, and a bad spawn mix of human casters in a delve hallway can ruin your day.2 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
well which is it? if its just a vocal minority as you stated earlier it can't simultaniously be the most popular complaint. most popular complaint would indicate the most numerous. If its the most numerous complaint which it has been for months now it can't be just a vocal minority can it....
7 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway...
Right now, it's you. You and the folks who have suddenly crawled out of the woodwork to talk about how much you love the difficulty of VR content. Where were you for the last three months when everyone was complaining about it being too hard?
Were you here articulately expressing your opposing opinion to those who were frustrated with the challenge? Or were you completely silent on the issue? Or were you smugly posting "l2p"?
We were playing the game.
Also, this poll http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115102/do-you-think-veteran-content-is-too-hard/ says 60/40 it's fine.
60 majority
40 minority
Clear enough?[DC/NA]8 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway...
Right now, it's you. You and the folks who have suddenly crawled out of the woodwork to talk about how much you love the difficulty of VR content. Where were you for the last three months when everyone was complaining about it being too hard?
Were you here articulately expressing your opposing opinion to those who were frustrated with the challenge? Or were you completely silent on the issue? Or were you smugly posting "l2p"?
We were playing the game.
Also, this poll http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115102/do-you-think-veteran-content-is-too-hard/ says 60/40 it's fine.
60 majority
40 minority
Clear enough?
40% is still too much for a company that wants to make money.
Especially considering that the forums represent such a small sub-section of the populace.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?4 -
brandon✭✭✭✭Yay they nerfed vet difficulty because of people being crybabies, Stupid move zenimax stupid stupid move. What are they going to nerf next? Oh I know lets nerf character creation lets all be male Bretons 1 hairstyle blue eyes. Or how about nerfing pvp everyone in pvp is dropped to lvl 1. I hope they implement this because otherwise people will complain.Edited by brandon on July 4, 2014 1:09AM3 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »
40% is still too much for a company that wants to make money.
Especially considering that the forums represent such a small sub-section of the populace.
Expect many more to "crawl out of the woodwork". Especially when this change goes live.[DC/NA]5 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway...
Right now, it's you. You and the folks who have suddenly crawled out of the woodwork to talk about how much you love the difficulty of VR content. Where were you for the last three months when everyone was complaining about it being too hard?
Were you here articulately expressing your opposing opinion to those who were frustrated with the challenge? Or were you completely silent on the issue? Or were you smugly posting "l2p"?
We were playing the game.
Also, this poll http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115102/do-you-think-veteran-content-is-too-hard/ says 60/40 it's fine.
60 majority
40 minority
Clear enough?
yes but how many of those who put its not too hard would actually mind it getting made a bit easier? you assume that everyone who finds it do-able (like myself on my templar) would by default dislike it being made easier for the other 40%
i,m confident that most humans can empathise enough to be ok with it being made easier and not be so self absorbed they can't allow others to enjoy the game unless they want to play it exactly the same way as they do
if they did a poll and asked are you ok with it getting made a bit easier how many of the 60% do you think would say NO! my way or the highway
Edited by hamon on July 4, 2014 1:12AM6 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't have this "rune" trained yet I am going ahead. Slowly, but because I am completionist and don't have lots of gaming time available.
At VR 7 I have found all of 3-4 things that imo were totally out of whack:
- clusters of 3 spiders = insta melt pets and whoever dares to go between them for a second
- crazy "defend from 3-4 attack waves of 3 mobs which usually tend to hit twice as hard than the normal groups of 3".
- some abilities (like those white "small spirits" (I don't recall the name) cast by Harvesters and few others were quite overtuned.
But the rest is just fine. Yes it's difficult but it's what teached me how to play. 1-50 didn't, really. At VR3-4 I really had to start rolling well, manage pet well, use line of sight... instead of just facetanking whatever.
If the "new and improved" content level is similar to the Molag-Bal pathetic excuse for an encounter then Zenimax are really dropping the ball and catering to the lowest common denominator.
Heck I am old in RL, always seeked challenge in MMOs, *I* should be at disadvantage here. Did players become braindead, whiny puddings in the last 5 years?Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO9 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
well which is it? if its just a vocal minority as you stated earlier it can't simultaniously be the most popular complaint. most popular complaint would indicate the most numerous. If its the most numerous complaint which it has been for months now it can't be just a vocal minority can it....
Actually, you sort of made my point. Yes, it can be the vocal minority, and let me explain to you how this works.
Player A is having a great time. He's enjoying a balanced game, things are making him think, try new things, it isn't a boring faceroll like SO many other games that feel like Hello Kitty Island Adventure with swords...
Psychology 101 will show you this player will NOT take the time to make a forum post like "holy %$#* this game is great!" 9 times out of 10. Why? No time for that, enjoying the game! This is generally the majority of players.
Now, player B has some difficulty with a certain type of monster and immediately gives up without trying a different ability combination as the game intends. He feels he should be able to keep the same 5 abilities on his bar and use it against ALL content like every other MMO. Often he can't be bothered with mechanics like roll dodge or block or exploits, because he didn't have to do it in WoW.
Or maybe he just needs help with his build and isn't finding any relevant advise on the internet? Who knows.
Point is, pop psyche 101 will inform you again that this player will react emotionally and immediately rush to the forums or in-game support to make a negative post 9 times out of 10 as a FIRST resort. Why? HUMAN NATURE.
It is a simple psychological fact: More people complain than give praise.
So perhaps it is the most popular complaint, but that is a far cry from the most popular sentiment of the player base.
If I were a betting man, I would say this change will lose ZOS more subscribers than it gains them. Why? Because it will gut one of the things about this game that was truly unique and fun: the element of STRATEGY and ADAPTATION.
The majority of players that left, in every survey I have read and video I have watched, were due to bugs and bots. Quest breaking bugs, phasing bugs, progression blocking bugs, many of which have been fixed but sadly many didn't stick around past the trial sub to see.
This change is a desperation move plain and simple, and it WILL backfire, mark my words.11 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭not be so self absorbed they can't allow others to enjoy the game unless they want to play it exactly the same way as they do
That goes both ways. We're all forced to play it the same way as each other. So aren't you also self absorbed because you like the change?
Stupid argument is stupid.[DC/NA]3 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I TOTALLY hope to be VR 12 by the time they make the game garbage like WoW.
Actually, can they put in a badge / achievement: "I levelled the fair way"?Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO4 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway...
Right now, it's you. You and the folks who have suddenly crawled out of the woodwork to talk about how much you love the difficulty of VR content. Where were you for the last three months when everyone was complaining about it being too hard?
Were you here articulately expressing your opposing opinion to those who were frustrated with the challenge? Or were you completely silent on the issue? Or were you smugly posting "l2p"?
We were playing the game.
Also, this poll http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115102/do-you-think-veteran-content-is-too-hard/ says 60/40 it's fine.
60 majority
40 minority
Clear enough?
40% is still too much for a company that wants to make money.
Especially considering that the forums represent such a small sub-section of the populace.
Forum polls are about as accurate as a witch doctor throwing bones into the air.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"9 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »
40% is still too much for a company that wants to make money.
Especially considering that the forums represent such a small sub-section of the populace.
Expect many more to "crawl out of the woodwork". Especially when this change goes live.
When it goes live and you hate it, great, that's cool. At least you (or they) are hating something they've actually tried. Preemptive hate is a little ridiculous, though."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?9 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't have this "rune" trained yet I am going ahead. Slowly, but because I am completionist and don't have lots of gaming time available.
At VR 7 I have found all of 3-4 things that imo were totally out of whack:
- clusters of 3 spiders = insta melt pets and whoever dares to go between them for a second
- crazy "defend from 3-4 attack waves of 3 mobs which usually tend to hit twice as hard than the normal groups of 3".
- some abilities (like those white "small spirits" (I don't recall the name) cast by Harvesters and few others were quite overtuned.
But the rest is just fine. Yes it's difficult but it's what teached me how to play. 1-50 didn't, really. At VR3-4 I really had to start rolling well, manage pet well, use line of sight... instead of just facetanking whatever.
If the "new and improved" content level is similar to the Molag-Bal pathetic excuse for an encounter then Zenimax are really dropping the ball and catering to the lowest common denominator.
Heck I am old in RL, always seeked challenge in MMOs, *I* should be at disadvantage here. Did players become braindead, whiny puddings in the last 5 years?
clearly you play sorcerer, and if you find it too hard on a sorc then you are in trouble.. sorc and dk's are easy mode. so if you find a few things a problem on your sorc try to imagine doing it on a templar..
perhaps if your old and mature like you say you would consider that before calling folk braindead and whiney simply cos they didnt roll ez-mode classes
4 -
2 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway...
Right now, it's you. You and the folks who have suddenly crawled out of the woodwork to talk about how much you love the difficulty of VR content. Where were you for the last three months when everyone was complaining about it being too hard?
Were you here articulately expressing your opposing opinion to those who were frustrated with the challenge? Or were you completely silent on the issue? Or were you smugly posting "l2p"?
We were playing the game.
Also, this poll http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115102/do-you-think-veteran-content-is-too-hard/ says 60/40 it's fine.
60 majority
40 minority
Clear enough?
40% is still too much for a company that wants to make money.
Especially considering that the forums represent such a small sub-section of the populace.
Forum polls are about as accurate as a witch doctor throwing bones into the air.
I agree completely.
But I didn't post it; just responded to it."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?1 -
Dekkameron✭✭✭✭✭My fave is "I.. erect.. the... spine.. of.. INEBRIATION!" from a drunk female Argonian In Eastwatch.Edited by Dekkameron on July 4, 2014 1:20AM- Veteran Combat Librarian -3 -
brandon✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »AlienDiplomat wrote: »I should have made this a poll. More people that I have talked to are upset by this lazy man's solution to jeopardize the quality of veteran content to suit some anonymous "vocal minority" than are actually defending it.
Who ARE these vocal minority anyway, and will they really make up the subscriber numbers combined with those they will lose if they over-nerf?
O.o
I suppose only time will tell, but this will be a very easy change to over-do being that so many seem to agree that doing it at all was too far.
I really hope this is done as a BALANCING step now a "nerf it all" hamfisted content nerf. Like take on specific mobs (storm atronach, gargoyle, etc.) or make certain abilities hit for a LITTLE less...
if it was a vocal minority you can bet they wouldnt be changing anything... I think the jury is in and it is YOU who is the vocal minority. cos if you wern't they would change nothing. The fact they are is pretty much conclusive that ZOS have done the math and decided this will please many more than it will annoy.
Actually, I think this may be something completely different.
I think the company is in "panic mode" for losing so many subscribers before they recouped enough of their investment, and they are scrambling to latch onto the most popular complaints to try and win back some numbers. That is just a theory.
well which is it? if its just a vocal minority as you stated earlier it can't simultaniously be the most popular complaint. most popular complaint would indicate the most numerous. If its the most numerous complaint which it has been for months now it can't be just a vocal minority can it....
Actually, you sort of made my point. Yes, it can be the vocal minority, and let me explain to you how this works.
Player A is having a great time. He's enjoying a balanced game, things are making him think, try new things, it isn't a boring faceroll like SO many other games that feel like Hello Kitty Island Adventure with swords...
Psychology 101 will show you this player will NOT take the time to make a forum post like "holy %$#* this game is great!" 9 times out of 10. Why? No time for that, enjoying the game! This is generally the majority of players.
Now, player B has some difficulty with a certain type of monster and immediately gives up without trying a different ability combination as the game intends. He feels he should be able to keep the same 5 abilities on his bar and use it against ALL content like every other MMO. Often he can't be bothered with mechanics like roll dodge or block or exploits, because he didn't have to do it in WoW.
Or maybe he just needs help with his build and isn't finding any relevant advise on the internet? Who knows.
Point is, pop psyche 101 will inform you again that this player will react emotionally and immediately rush to the forums or in-game support to make a negative post 9 times out of 10 as a FIRST resort. Why? HUMAN NATURE.
It is a simple psychological fact: More people complain than give praise.
So perhaps it is the most popular complaint, but that is a far cry from the most popular sentiment of the player base.
If I were a betting man, I would say this change will lose ZOS more subscribers than it gains them. Why? Because it will gut one of the things about this game that was truly unique and fun: the element of STRATEGY and ADAPTATION.
The majority of players that left, in every survey I have read and video I have watched, were due to bugs and bots. Quest breaking bugs, phasing bugs, progression blocking bugs, many of which have been fixed but sadly many didn't stick around past the trial sub to see.
This change is a desperation move plain and simple, and it WILL backfire, mark my words.
I hate most mmo players for this reason. Everything needs to die in 1 hit for them to have fun. Then they complain about something else which also gets nerfed over and over again. Finally they leave anyway leaving everyone else with a nerfed to hell game to play. They then go and do it to another game.5 -
Zero_Tolerance✭✭✭It's bad but always happens. The noobs always get their way 'cos they can give out here while in normal life they can only sulk in the corner and cry on their momma's lap instead of demanding to win everything they engage in without even trying. Lucky them I guess....4
