LordEcks wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

yes except for one problem. when it turns out that one button mashing actually is too powerfull in an MMO you soon see everyone using it.. which then makes it self evident as a problem.. And i'm seeing nothing but dks in robes flashing the wings every few seconds.. so clearly its now the new "one button move"..

i like your analogy tho, its valid.. to expand on it from my own experience, i knew a guy who used to use one move in tekken and he could kill the fun to the point everyone wanted to play something else within an hour just by spamming that button to win....

thats not a whine thats a visible and unquestionable observation.

The observation is unquestionable. We all know what DK scales does, and yah since its magic based Skirt Knights can spam it quite a bit....

The way I see it scales should hit you all of 1 time. Fooled me once, shame on you... fooled me twice....shame on me type deal.

If hes reflecting your attacks then you need to switch tactics to something more aoe based. Unless your a 1-trick Crystal Shard pony I dont see how this is really OP. Really annoying ? Sure. Really OP? Hardly.

Next week its Eclipse right? Once people realize that Templars have practically the same ability in a fire and forget targetable version, oh.. love how much focus the sole direct heal DK gets too.. it cant even hold a candle to Temp self heals after passives.

Thats right, nobody cares that Temps do both of these things better than DKs because Temps just suck right?

Edit: Just to add in this is exactly why you end up having abilities that do exactly the same thing, but some have penalties and some dont. Like Destructive Touch/Clench/Reach being instant/stun/range vs Uppercut having a cast time.

They do practically the same thing... and until recently there was very little difference between them.

No one is compalainig about Eclipse. Look at the magicka costs between Eclipse and scales and then you will understand the root of the problem.

Malmai wrote: »

Eh again this thread Templars can reflect too and they are much more tanky if build it properly.

Templar reflects are single target, cc breakable, and cost a ton more than scales.

Fail excuses are fail.

no matter what side you take in this argument, 1 guy killing 5-7 people, alone, is ridiculous. does not matter if there are counters or not. I have killed DKs before(stealth is awesome. lol) but if you get in a straight up fight with one, you are f****. yes, the cost is determined on the reflected damage, but what am I to do? just stand there like an idiot? or use a weaker attack so he/she does not reflect that much damage? that wont work, and here is why: not every DK is gonna turn on the ability, and just stand there and let it kill you. IF all DKs did that, they would be easy as f** to kill, but no. a lot of them turn on the ability, then whale on you with it on. you try to run? they knock you down, and spam talons.
as a NB archer, there are only so many counters i can do. Shadow cloak does not even work half the time, path of darkness would be utterly pointless, again, talons. i can try to use incapacitating strike to knock it down(that does work most of the time thankfully) and get away, and i can try to use siphons to heal myself some, and slow the DK down, but that's all i can really do:/ i don't have my own reflect, like the Templar does(and im not going to roll one either) i don't(nor will i, as i have tried it, and it bored me) use a destruction staff. i don't have a DK of my own to counter with. MAYBE i could get a sneak attack on him/her, and scare the crap out of him, and make them forget to cast it(that does work sometimes, lol.) but that, and the other options i have listed, is all i can do. Look at it from the perspective of people that, really, DONT have a lot of counters to this ability. either this ability needs to get toned down, or people that don't use a staff need more ways to counter it. one of the two

I sometimes wipe raids when they stand under my oil, buff stupidity, It's clearly underpowered.

More adapting, less whining.
It's possible to counter spaming dks, but of course only if one's playstyle is not set in stone.

I'd like to see video featuring a dk who's letting dumb players die on their own spells while giggling "stop hitting yourself" all the time.

danno816_ESO wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Wait till you guys figure out Blazing Shield is the exact same thing as Reflective Scales, only it works on Melee.

Uhh not quite. Blazing Shield has a tonne of conditions attached to it. It stops you magicka regen (horrible for a Templar), It is 30% of max health (so even with 3000 health you would get a 900 damage shield), it only returns 50% of damage absorbed on expiry (so again 50% X 900 = 450 damage).

"Each nearby target increases shield strength by 4%"

As far as our guild's testing goes there is no 6 player cap on this. Run into a zerg.... BAM 2500 aoe dmg.

Math and reading comprehension are OP.

zmanu wrote: »

I sometimes wipe raids when they stand under my oil, buff stupidity, It's clearly underpowered.

All classes have equal access to oil, so your argument has no legs.

LordEcks wrote: »

The observation is unquestionable. We all know what DK scales does, and yah since its magic based Skirt Knights can spam it quite a bit....

The way I see it scales should hit you all of 1 time. Fooled me once, shame on you... fooled me twice....shame on me type deal.

If hes reflecting your attacks then you need to switch tactics to something more aoe based. Unless your a 1-trick Crystal Shard pony I dont see how this is really OP. Really annoying ? Sure. Really OP? Hardly.

Next week its Eclipse right? Once people realize that Templars have practically the same ability in a fire and forget targetable version, oh.. love how much focus the sole direct heal DK gets too.. it cant even hold a candle to Temp self heals after passives.

Thats right, nobody cares that Temps do both of these things better than DKs because Temps just suck right?

Edit: Just to add in this is exactly why you end up having abilities that do exactly the same thing, but some have penalties and some dont. Like Destructive Touch/Clench/Reach being instant/stun/range vs Uppercut having a cast time.

They do practically the same thing... and until recently there was very little difference between them.

Oh boy, here it is, Eclipse is basically the same thing as Reflective scales... Oh boy, Let's just drill down on that a lil bit..

Reflective scales is on you, meaning every player of the opposing faction trying to cast a spell on you gets reflected back at them. It also means that there is nothing the other player can do to get rid of your buff besides wait it out...

So, if there are 10 enemies on the battlefield, and all 10 cast a spell at you, you reflect it back at them.

Now let's cover Eclipse that "does practically the same thing" in your words. Eclipse is something that you cast on an enemy player. Meaning, they can break out of it, and once they do, they gain an immunity. So they don't have to worry about reflect from templars for a bit. Eclipse will only be up 100% of the time against someone who does not know how to break out of CC.

If there are 10 enemies on the battlefield, and all 10 cast a spell at you, you have to put eclipse on everyone of them.

Having said that, it is a really good support ability because it reflects everything the back at the caster regardless of whom they are targeting. Unlike Reflective scales which is only benefiting the DK.

After reading this, you should realize they are not "basically the same thing" only thing they have in common is the reflect...

The biggest issue with Reflective scales by keeping that up they pretty much require you to use a stamina build other than bows to counter them (and we know how amazing those are).

JLB wrote: »

Try to spam a few times the shield: see your magicka bar totally dry with 0 class resource management (as opposed to DKs, for example) to easily fill it up.

You must be referring to DK health resource management, which is indeed very good. But as a Templar you have many ways to heal yourself too so I'm not sure why you're complaining about that.

As far as Magicka is concerned, care to explain with your vast experience as a DK, how you easily refill you magicka? Cause I would like to know...

The only class specific thing that gives magicka back is Battle Roar and that's when you throw down an ultimate, which needless to say is not always possible. So let's not make sweeping generalisations.

The OP thing about the Scales is the synergy with the Syrabane set. I don't really see a need for the set to exist at all but at bare minimum it should have a cool down.

Do you guys realise that all nerfs (including this one) only involved mage DK ? Are you thinking about what you're doing to all DKs who doesn't play in full light armor destro/heal staf ?

Sorry for my broken english, please correct me (or I don't learn).

LordEcks wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

yes except for one problem. when it turns out that one button mashing actually is too powerfull in an MMO you soon see everyone using it.. which then makes it self evident as a problem.. And i'm seeing nothing but dks in robes flashing the wings every few seconds.. so clearly its now the new "one button move"..

i like your analogy tho, its valid.. to expand on it from my own experience, i knew a guy who used to use one move in tekken and he could kill the fun to the point everyone wanted to play something else within an hour just by spamming that button to win....

thats not a whine thats a visible and unquestionable observation.

The observation is unquestionable. We all know what DK scales does, and yah since its magic based Skirt Knights can spam it quite a bit....

The way I see it scales should hit you all of 1 time. Fooled me once, shame on you... fooled me twice....shame on me type deal.

If hes reflecting your attacks then you need to switch tactics to something more aoe based. Unless your a 1-trick Crystal Shard pony I dont see how this is really OP. Really annoying ? Sure. Really OP? Hardly.

Next week its Eclipse right? Once people realize that Templars have practically the same ability in a fire and forget targetable version, oh.. love how much focus the sole direct heal DK gets too.. it cant even hold a candle to Temp self heals after passives.

Thats right, nobody cares that Temps do both of these things better than DKs because Temps just suck right?

Edit: Just to add in this is exactly why you end up having abilities that do exactly the same thing, but some have penalties and some dont. Like Destructive Touch/Clench/Reach being instant/stun/range vs Uppercut having a cast time.

They do practically the same thing... and until recently there was very little difference between them.

well the problem with scales versus eclipse is that scales is reflecting arrows and bow skills as well. so if you play a ranged type build it shuts you down completely.

scales also affects everyone , eclipse would need to be cast on everyone individually. even then it doesnt reflect arrows and bow skills.

so ye your comparison is utter garbage.

and if your advice is head on in and melee the dk... well we know how that ends cos they have the best melee range ultimates and talon spam to kill you in seconds..

i'd be ok with scales if it didnt reflect arrows and bos skills as well as magic attacks.

where this game fails is that no class has (afaik) any type of purge that strips away self buffs. that would be a legitimate counter to scales.

Eylith wrote: »

Do you guys realize that all nerfs (including this one) only involve a mage DK ? Are you thinking about what you're doing to all DKs who do not play in full light armor with destro/heal staff ?

Sorry for my broken english, please correct me (or I don't learn).

It is an unfortunate problem that ZOS has to deal with because of how poorly they implemented that magicka/stamina thing. If you're making changes to skills for pvp though, you have to balance around the best builds.

people whining about cloth wearing dk's with a staff while they are cloth wearers with staff's aswell spamming casts at a dk with wings up and tha crying about it....

really.. is every *** game the same bull'''' with people that cant comprehend anything ?

how to counter a dk...

1: use a stamina based stun=win
2: use soul assault. if a dk is beeing busy picking his nose while people kill themselves on him, you might get a full cast off =win
3: l2 roll
4:stop using spells on him when he has wings up...=stop beeing dumb=win

---

and if thats not enough... look at it like this..

every class has its own part in the game.

nightblades are for sneaky people going for a fast kill.
sorcerers are the powerhouses that are supposed to kill everything on sight.
templars are the hybrids that use group utility and some extra damage to support.
dk's are the actualy meatshields that stand infront the line trying to stop everything comming toward the keep.

if you just stop pretending this is wow.. and look at what the roles of these classes are, than you can see that this game actually has quite good pvp when the fps issue is solved..

Vis wrote: »

I must officially reverse my position on "No More Nerfs."

DK scales spam have reached new epic proportions. We all knew the skill was OP, but I was alright with it because it was rare to run into a DK who spammed it continuously ....

However, the cat is now out of the bag.

Every DK worth anything now has Scales up 100% of the time in every fight. And why not? It costs almost the same as bolt (with no cd penalties) and effectively removes more than 80% of all dps skills.

Scales can reflect all single target spells, arrows, and even thrown daggers. It's AMAZING!

AND it's dirt cheap. If only the majority of us took a look at how little magicka scales costs, there would be a mob.

What are we supposed to do?

Use aoes at melee range (against a DK, good luck)?
Hope a DK is dumb enough to stand in a ground effect?
Pull out our stamina melee builds (hahahahahaha)?
Use any of the 3-4 skills that are very low in dps?

1.) You created a class that can effectively dps as high as any other (talons/whip)
2.) Tank like a god (green dragon blood)
3.) AND reflect the majority of all dps skills against ALL players in a fight

Yes, I could very slowly burn down a DK with my low dps aoe/melee skills IF he did not have the best self heal in game and ONLY IF he did not have the means to kill me in a 10th of the time.

If you are a DK who has lost a 1v1 ... you are way behind your fellow brothers.

I don't blame the many people now re-rolling DKs, it would be stupid not to.

Did I miss something here?

ZOS, DO YOU PLAY YOUR OWN GAME???

Brace yourselves, DKs who want to protect their ez-mode are coming ...

Scales are the only real DK tool against ranged attacks, as DKs do not have any real (20+ m) abilities.
So if DK would not have Scales any other class with 20+ attacks would melt DK on a sight.
If you know the game and not have major problem with your eyes, it is really hard not to see Scales animation.

Sorry, but if there is currently one class that rules others, it is Sorcerers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGIxhsVWIE8

Lol. Look at all the DKs trying hopelessly to defend this skill.

When this power finally gets nerfed these same players will create even longer posts complaining about it along with the next wave of "I quit" posts. One single ability is allowing DKs to kill multiple players at once with no viable counter from most other classes ... and this is evidently ok with them because if it changes they will "quit".

These people are their own worst enemy. If you cannot step back and look at a game constructively, pushing aside your own self interests, you have no business posting on this forum. Many here already admit that they couldn't possible play this game as another class ... yet defend the one class and the one build that can do everything better than any other class. Logic at it's finest.

ESO is still basically an open skill system game. Individual skills WILL need to be balanced. It is NOT a nerf to your class. It is a nerf to one single ability. These are needed and will happen to every class in game as each class has a bulk of the skills but they are still just skills.