DK Scales! - Reversing My Position

Snit

Aeratus wrote: »

DKs who just block aren't a problem because is a tactic common to all classes. On the other hand, scales is not.

It's a common tactic for builds that can kill you solely with instants. Any class that relies on spells with a cast time cannot keep block up 100% of the time.

MadLefty

They just need to erase the heal from DK and he ll became a normal charater!!! Give a best self heal to a tank character is just crazy!!!!

Tendeep

Erock25 wrote: »

melodeath wrote: »

not trying to defend this.. but the only reason dk's can spam/keep it up is because of "noobs" that keep casting at them while they have syrabane set...

the set gives you magica everytime you reflect a spell.. so, its not really the abilitty but more the ability with the set bonus on top of people that keep feeding the dk magica with it.

You would think that but watch this video .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eiusig1zOlY

That guy isn't even wearing Syrabane.

This Reflective Scale spell is ridiculous and needs to go.

Keep posting stuff like this, it will build up rage among the ESO community and maybe something will be fixed.

I know for a fact my Templar can not do anything near this.

I know for a fact my Night Blade can not do anything near this.

I know for a fact my Sorc can not do anything near this.

GG ESO, good game... lmao

Cody

in all honesty though, it should only reflect spells. it would not be so bad if it did not reflect ALL ranged projectile.s Me being an archer kinda makes me a little scared to face a DK at all nowadays because of it:/

Baphomet

OP, omg, really?

I think it's safe to say that this is clearly a L2P issue.

Akhratos

Over 400 magicka base cost and it costs additional resources when reflecting a skill. Add it has one of the most easy to see animations and there you got buttom smashers whinning for more nerfs.

So you are pissed off because you cant keep mindlessly spamming crystal fragments or snipe from 30m?

Any sorceror or NB can easily kite a DK with the cc inmunity feature added. Let him cast it for nothing and hell be oom faster than he can cc you again.

BugCollector

Honestly, this is indeed OP. I see two solutions: either make it a one target only reflect, like the Templar reflect or increase the magicka cost DRASTICALLY.

Vis

Archaon wrote: »

Over 400 magicka base cost and it costs additional resources when reflecting a skill. Add it has one of the most easy to see animations and there you got buttom smashers whinning for more nerfs.

Under 400 magicka base cost (fixed it for you). What are you afraid of? That your DK would no longer be able to mindlessly spam an Iwin button?

The only game play promoting button smashing is hitting scales and then typing lol lol lol.

Akhratos

Vis wrote: »

Archaon wrote: »

Over 400 magicka base cost and it costs additional resources when reflecting a skill. Add it has one of the most easy to see animations and there you got buttom smashers whinning for more nerfs.

Under 400 magicka base cost (fixed it for you). What are you afraid of? That your DK would no longer be able to mindlessly spam an Iwin button?

The only game play promoting button smashing is hitting scales and then typing lol lol lol.

Im sure being you the one in the other end of the rope it is indeed an Iwin buttom.

But do not be afraid, you will kill yourself so you are better thinking you won/lost the duel yourself.

Again, kite for 4s, make him waste magicka for zero gain.

LordEcks

Remember when you were a kid.. playing Street Fighter II.. and the self-proclaimed neighborhood SF butt-kicker came over to lay the smackdown on you... and you beat him?




Remember what he said..? "You only won because you kept pushing the same button over and over....L2P"

Exactly what OP sounds like.

Every week its some new ability...and the comical part is he details how to beat his opponent with multiple methods. He just feels too entitled and believes he shouldnt have to adjust his bar to win. Keep your four single target abils bud... I'm not even a DK but I know a whiner when I see it.

Erock25

Archaon wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Archaon wrote: »

Over 400 magicka base cost and it costs additional resources when reflecting a skill. Add it has one of the most easy to see animations and there you got buttom smashers whinning for more nerfs.

Under 400 magicka base cost (fixed it for you). What are you afraid of? That your DK would no longer be able to mindlessly spam an Iwin button?

The only game play promoting button smashing is hitting scales and then typing lol lol lol.

Im sure being you the one in the other end of the rope it is indeed an Iwin buttom.

But do not be afraid, you will kill yourself so you are better thinking you won/lost the duel yourself.

Again, kite for 4s, make him waste magicka for zero gain.

Spoken like someone who has never had to kite a DK for 4 seconds.

Akhratos

Erock25 wrote: »

Archaon wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Archaon wrote: »

Over 400 magicka base cost and it costs additional resources when reflecting a skill. Add it has one of the most easy to see animations and there you got buttom smashers whinning for more nerfs.

Under 400 magicka base cost (fixed it for you). What are you afraid of? That your DK would no longer be able to mindlessly spam an Iwin button?

The only game play promoting button smashing is hitting scales and then typing lol lol lol.

Im sure being you the one in the other end of the rope it is indeed an Iwin buttom.

But do not be afraid, you will kill yourself so you are better thinking you won/lost the duel yourself.

Again, kite for 4s, make him waste magicka for zero gain.

Spoken like someone who has never had to kite a DK for 4 seconds.

CC inmunity. GG.


And of course, I am using an intrincate memory injection hack that make the DK explode in zillion pieces before they reach me, so I never had to.

InvictoNZ

When you see the flappy wings... switch to resto staff (everyone should be using it right?) then use heavy attacks for the next few seconds.

Press block when (or maybe before) your own ability is flying back at yourself. (or flap your own wings for ping pong).

You do realise it uses the DKs resources to reflect. So if you reduce his stamina to zero (using stamina attacks), then he is unable to block or roll away.

Vis

The DKs are sure trying hard to hold onto their ez-mode.

Restostaff heavy attacks will not kill a DK (especially with gdb) but thanks for playing.

Vis

Erock25 wrote: »

Archaon wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Archaon wrote: »

Over 400 magicka base cost and it costs additional resources when reflecting a skill. Add it has one of the most easy to see animations and there you got buttom smashers whinning for more nerfs.

Under 400 magicka base cost (fixed it for you). What are you afraid of? That your DK would no longer be able to mindlessly spam an Iwin button?

The only game play promoting button smashing is hitting scales and then typing lol lol lol.

Im sure being you the one in the other end of the rope it is indeed an Iwin buttom.

But do not be afraid, you will kill yourself so you are better thinking you won/lost the duel yourself.

Again, kite for 4s, make him waste magicka for zero gain.

Spoken like someone who has never had to kite a DK for 4 seconds.

That's the problem, they can keep it up the entire fight, there is no kiting an entire fight.

Stratti

yodased wrote: »

Lol defense!!!

DRAGON FIRE SCALE I
Cast Time Instant
Target Self
Duration 4 seconds
Cost 49 Magicka
Reflects all projectiles for 4 seconds. Reflected attacks deal 20% additional damage.
New Effect:
Increases damage of reflected attacks.

HARNESS MAGICKA I
Cast Time Instant
Target Self
Duration 20 seconds
Cost 60 Stamina
Creates 3 point damage shield for 20 seconds. Player takes -50% less damage from spells while shield holds. Restores Magicka each time player absorbs Spell Damage. This value is increased by 3% for each piece of Light Armor equipped. Current bonus: 3%.
New Effect:
Absorb magicka based on amount of light armor equipped

DEFENSIVE STANCE I
Cast Time Instant
Target Self
Duration 30 seconds
Cost 32 Stamina
Reflects next spell projectile back at attacker and stuns them for 2 seconds when activated. Increases Block mitigation by 8% and reduces Block cost by 8% when slotted.
New Effect:
Reflected attacks stun enemy caster.

IMMOVABLE I
Cast Time Instant
Target Self
Duration 8 seconds
Cost 56 Stamina
Increases Armor and Spell Resistance by 17 for 8 seconds. Grants immunity to knockback and disabling effects for the duration.

RING OF PRESERVATION I
Cast Time Instant
Target Area
Radius 5 meters
Duration 20 seconds
Cost 35 Stamina
Creates an area of protection for 20 seconds. Nearby allies have Armor and Spell Resistance increased by 10 and Health Recovery increased by 25%. Armor and Spell Resistance increased by an additional 10 against undead and Daedric enemies.

Only 1 of those is a class ability . Typical these forums are full of people misrepresenting things in order to get a nerf. It's a simple reflect spell available in many MMO including WoW . Deal with it, the cost is high as almost any. Other ability and will not reflect stuns and snares . Learn to play

Stratti

Vis wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

The skill is fine as intented but it should do what the tooltip says and reflect magic projectiles. Currently it reflects arrow skills and thrown daggers which is, of course, bonkers. Reflecting stuff like other DK chains is a bit of a grey area - they are magicka skills after all but stamina abilities should not be reflected.

It's not WAI (if you believe the tooltip and think slightly rationally) in that sense. Otherwise it's just a very good skill you have to be aware of. If the DK is spamming it AND hitting dragonblood they're going to have limited DPS options. So don't kill yourself on it.

At some point when I trust Zeni to make changes again I'd like to see it fixed to WAI but certainly not nerfed.

That's the issue, they do not have limited dps options. Look at the cost of scales.

It's about skill. He cannot destroy you and spam that with dragon blood so drain his magicka . Dragon knights are finished when the pool is low we don't have any recharge abilities .

Juraigr

Snit wrote: »

I would like to know if any sorcerers are able to kill well played DK's more than, say, 10% of the time in a one-on-one. To be clear, I mean at geared-up V12, and nobody started out on their horse And let's also assume nobody's a moron (e.g., the sorc isn't spamming a hardcast CF). Here are the issues, from the sorc's point of view:

- DK's heal, so you need to burst them down
- DK's reflect both of the nukes we might load, Crystal Fragments or Crushing Shock. They also reflect Destro Staff attacks (the heavy attack can do significant damage)
- Velocious Curse, Resto staff attacks and Endless Fury can not be reflected, but those two together won't burst enough to kill anyone at their keyboard

I'm all for Rock-Paper-Scissors (or Shotgun, or even Lizard-Spock). I can wreck badly played DK's. But a good one is darn near impossible, and I'm definining good solely as "Has Reflecting Scale on their bar and uses it frequently." DK's have a pretty amazing combination of defense and offense.

The best answer I have found is to just run.

Lol yh I haven't lost against a sorc in a 1v1 since I started.doing.pvp

Vis

Stratti wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

The skill is fine as intented but it should do what the tooltip says and reflect magic projectiles. Currently it reflects arrow skills and thrown daggers which is, of course, bonkers. Reflecting stuff like other DK chains is a bit of a grey area - they are magicka skills after all but stamina abilities should not be reflected.

It's not WAI (if you believe the tooltip and think slightly rationally) in that sense. Otherwise it's just a very good skill you have to be aware of. If the DK is spamming it AND hitting dragonblood they're going to have limited DPS options. So don't kill yourself on it.

At some point when I trust Zeni to make changes again I'd like to see it fixed to WAI but certainly not nerfed.

That's the issue, they do not have limited dps options. Look at the cost of scales.

It's about skill. He cannot destroy you and spam that with dragon blood so drain his magicka . Dragon knights are finished when the pool is low we don't have any recharge abilities .

He can spam it. At less than 300 magicka he can keep it up all day. With it up he rarely needs to use gdb. You need to get out to pvp more, unless you are already wearing dk colored lenses that is.

Vis

Stratti wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Lol defense!!!

DRAGON FIRE SCALE I
Cast Time Instant
Target Self
Duration 4 seconds
Cost 49 Magicka
Reflects all projectiles for 4 seconds. Reflected attacks deal 20% additional damage.
New Effect:
Increases damage of reflected attacks.

HARNESS MAGICKA I
Cast Time Instant
Target Self
Duration 20 seconds
Cost 60 Stamina
Creates 3 point damage shield for 20 seconds. Player takes -50% less damage from spells while shield holds. Restores Magicka each time player absorbs Spell Damage. This value is increased by 3% for each piece of Light Armor equipped. Current bonus: 3%.
New Effect:
Absorb magicka based on amount of light armor equipped

DEFENSIVE STANCE I
Cast Time Instant
Target Self
Duration 30 seconds
Cost 32 Stamina
Reflects next spell projectile back at attacker and stuns them for 2 seconds when activated. Increases Block mitigation by 8% and reduces Block cost by 8% when slotted.
New Effect:
Reflected attacks stun enemy caster.

IMMOVABLE I
Cast Time Instant
Target Self
Duration 8 seconds
Cost 56 Stamina
Increases Armor and Spell Resistance by 17 for 8 seconds. Grants immunity to knockback and disabling effects for the duration.

RING OF PRESERVATION I
Cast Time Instant
Target Area
Radius 5 meters
Duration 20 seconds
Cost 35 Stamina
Creates an area of protection for 20 seconds. Nearby allies have Armor and Spell Resistance increased by 10 and Health Recovery increased by 25%. Armor and Spell Resistance increased by an additional 10 against undead and Daedric enemies.

Only 1 of those is a class ability . Typical these forums are full of people misrepresenting things in order to get a nerf. It's a simple reflect spell available in many MMO including WoW . Deal with it, the cost is high as almost any. Other ability and will not reflect stuns and snares . Learn to play

No one seems to be reading... it is NOT a high cost skill. The same people who qq for bolt Nerfs now call a skill of almost the same cost a "non spammable high cost skill." Please spare me the bias.

Xsorus

Tendeep wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

melodeath wrote: »

not trying to defend this.. but the only reason dk's can spam/keep it up is because of "noobs" that keep casting at them while they have syrabane set...

the set gives you magica everytime you reflect a spell.. so, its not really the abilitty but more the ability with the set bonus on top of people that keep feeding the dk magica with it.

You would think that but watch this video .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eiusig1zOlY

That guy isn't even wearing Syrabane.

This Reflective Scale spell is ridiculous and needs to go.

Keep posting stuff like this, it will build up rage among the ESO community and maybe something will be fixed.

I know for a fact my Templar can not do anything near this.

I know for a fact my Night Blade can not do anything near this.

I know for a fact my Sorc can not do anything near this.

GG ESO, good game... lmao

Actually, your Templar can do exactly the same thing he did as long as you're fighting People Near you and spamming Blazing Shield.

hamon

LordEcks wrote: »

Remember when you were a kid.. playing Street Fighter II.. and the self-proclaimed neighborhood SF butt-kicker came over to lay the smackdown on you... and you beat him?




Remember what he said..? "You only won because you kept pushing the same button over and over....L2P"

Exactly what OP sounds like.

Every week its some new ability...and the comical part is he details how to beat his opponent with multiple methods. He just feels too entitled and believes he shouldnt have to adjust his bar to win. Keep your four single target abils bud... I'm not even a DK but I know a whiner when I see it.

yes except for one problem. when it turns out that one button mashing actually is too powerfull in an MMO you soon see everyone using it.. which then makes it self evident as a problem.. And i'm seeing nothing but dks in robes flashing the wings every few seconds.. so clearly its now the new "one button move"..

i like your analogy tho, its valid.. to expand on it from my own experience, i knew a guy who used to use one move in tekken and he could kill the fun to the point everyone wanted to play something else within an hour just by spamming that button to win....

thats not a whine thats a visible and unquestionable observation.

CoUsT

LOL at you guys.

2 pages and only one or two guys said that:
REFLECT DRAIN YOUR STAMINA/MAGICKA BASED ON REFLECTED ATTACK COST!

Is it big enough to see it and understand it?

So that "400" or even "300" magicka is 300 + TOTAL REFLECTED SPELLS COST... It's so bad that it drain stats...

Also, you must be stupid or *** (sorry... I'm just sorry but I can't listen to you and your QQ). There are a lot of tactics how to counter it.

The easiest way is being templar, spamming Dark Flare, so DK can't heal himself AND Eclipse. Maybe you don't know BUT this game has broken reflect mechanic and spells can reflect only ONCE. So if you put Eclipse on DK, and DK use his reflect scale, it reflect from DK and immediately turn back to DK and hit him.

See? 2 skills and even "underpowered" templar can kill MEGA-PRO-OVERPOWERED DRAGONKNIGHT.

That said, better nerf templar, because he can kill dragonknight... seriously guys, As @Stratti said - learn to play, learn to adapt, don't use only one and the same spells. You have 100 or more skills and you want to keep only 5 in use? Sure, you can, but you will never win if you can't adapt.

hk11

I dont think very many people pvp in ESO anyway. I dont think nerfing classes based on 3fps combat in a running simulator is the way to go.

Snit

hk11 wrote: »

I dont think very many people pvp in ESO anyway. I dont think nerfing classes based on 3fps combat in a running simulator is the way to go.

And evidently, you're one of those people who don't PvP.

The severe FPS issues are recent, from the last patch. And for most, they only take place when zergs and keeps intersect. As for the running simulator bit -- once you play a while, you know where to go for likely action.

Braidas

If you be a templar, when he casts scales, cast eclipse - your spells will bounce off him, off you, back to him.

hk11

Snit wrote: »

hk11 wrote: »

I dont think very many people pvp in ESO anyway. I dont think nerfing classes based on 3fps combat in a running simulator is the way to go.

And evidently, you're one of those people who don't PvP.

The severe FPS issues are recent, from the last patch. And for most, they only take place when zergs and keeps intersect. As for the running simulator bit -- once you play a while, you know where to go for likely action.

Normally I do PvP in MMOs. I always choose the PvP server and/or participate in whatever is available, but this really is the worst I have seen.

I am still getting enjoyment from other aspects of the game, and my personal choice would be for the 1 out 100 people who AvA not to affect the other 99 who do not.

CoUsT

Brandeospeedwagon wrote: »

If you be a templar, when he casts scales, cast eclipse - your spells will bounce off him, off you, back to him.

I just said that 3 posts above. But it's true. Everything in this game has counter. People should think a bit about skills and realize what is good and what isn't.

LordEcks

hamon wrote: »

yes except for one problem. when it turns out that one button mashing actually is too powerfull in an MMO you soon see everyone using it.. which then makes it self evident as a problem.. And i'm seeing nothing but dks in robes flashing the wings every few seconds.. so clearly its now the new "one button move"..

i like your analogy tho, its valid.. to expand on it from my own experience, i knew a guy who used to use one move in tekken and he could kill the fun to the point everyone wanted to play something else within an hour just by spamming that button to win....

thats not a whine thats a visible and unquestionable observation.

The observation is unquestionable. We all know what DK scales does, and yah since its magic based Skirt Knights can spam it quite a bit....

The way I see it scales should hit you all of 1 time. Fooled me once, shame on you... fooled me twice....shame on me type deal.

If hes reflecting your attacks then you need to switch tactics to something more aoe based. Unless your a 1-trick Crystal Shard pony I dont see how this is really OP. Really annoying ? Sure. Really OP? Hardly.

Next week its Eclipse right? Once people realize that Templars have practically the same ability in a fire and forget targetable version, oh.. love how much focus the sole direct heal DK gets too.. it cant even hold a candle to Temp self heals after passives.

Thats right, nobody cares that Temps do both of these things better than DKs because Temps just suck right?

Edit: Just to add in this is exactly why you end up having abilities that do exactly the same thing, but some have penalties and some dont. Like Destructive Touch/Clench/Reach being instant/stun/range vs Uppercut having a cast time.

They do practically the same thing... and until recently there was very little difference between them.

Welid

There are ways to counter this fighting style, you just haven't figured it out. You are so much in owe of the DK class that you can't see the solution to defeating them.