Nerf/Change Dark Stalker passive (Vampire)

yelloweyedemon · June 2014

It is really ridiculous to see any class running faster in stealth than a Nightblade just because of this one passive vampire skill.

I know that NB's are not supposed to be an assassin typical MMO class, but since they rely SO much on stealth and stealth openers in pvp (for burst damage at least), they should have the best sneak in game. (Both Speed and stealth level).

Currently the vampire passive eliminates the sneak speed debuff, and gives you full speed while sneaking. That needs to be changed to be simillar to Concealed Weapon (NB skill) which increases sneak speed by 25%.

PS: There's also a 5 set bonus that acts just like the vampire passive, and it is on light armour ...

Tintinabula · June 2014

Vamps are supernatural. Their sneak is supposed to be best in game.

Teargrants · June 2014

Nerf horse speed! No horse should be running faster than my sorc blinks. I know sorcs aren't supposed to be a super crazy class, but since they rely SO much on kiting they should have the best movement in the game.

yelloweyedemon · June 2014

Won't answer to trolls

dcincali · June 2014

Silver bolts.. BLAM!! Problem solved..

Rylana · June 2014

Vampire Nightblade reporting in

Sunrock · June 2014

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

It is really ridiculous to see any class running faster in stealth than a Nightblade just because of this one passive vampire skill.

I know that NB's are not supposed to be an assassin typical MMO class, but since they rely SO much on stealth and stealth openers in pvp (for burst damage at least), they should have the best sneak in game. (Both Speed and stealth level).

Currently the vampire passive eliminates the sneak speed debuff, and gives you full speed while sneaking. That needs to be changed to be simillar to Concealed Weapon (NB skill) which increases sneak speed by 25%.

PS: There's also a 5 set bonus that acts just like the vampire passive, and it is on light armour ...

Hmm I fail to see way a NB have to be faster in stealth then a Vampire. NB will still be better at stealth as they are harder to detect. And its not like you cant be a Vampire and NB.

yelloweyedemon · June 2014

Sunrock wrote: »

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

It is really ridiculous to see any class running faster in stealth than a Nightblade just because of this one passive vampire skill.

I know that NB's are not supposed to be an assassin typical MMO class, but since they rely SO much on stealth and stealth openers in pvp (for burst damage at least), they should have the best sneak in game. (Both Speed and stealth level).

Currently the vampire passive eliminates the sneak speed debuff, and gives you full speed while sneaking. That needs to be changed to be simillar to Concealed Weapon (NB skill) which increases sneak speed by 25%.

PS: There's also a 5 set bonus that acts just like the vampire passive, and it is on light armour ...

Hmm I fail to see way a NB have to be faster in stealth then a Vampire. NB will still be better at stealth as they are harder to detect. And its not like you cant be a Vampire and NB.

Yet we all know how it works... Magelight, detection pots... Stealth level is pretty much pointless. Even if the enemy is standing still and has no intention to move you have a 60% chance to be detected if you get close and be unable to open (properly) with concealed weapon/surprise attack. Even if you run in with shadow cloak. Even if the player is standing still I would open with ambush anytime...

Also my point is that you should NOT be forced to be vampire if you are a NB just because of 1 damn overpowered passive skill...

Teargrants · June 2014

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

Won't answer to trolls

Well forgive me for pointing out the flaw in your reasoning. Just because NB has stealth synergies isn't any reason that non NBs should be unable to sneak faster than them. The whole point of vamp speed is that it comes with the powerful drawback of being a vamp, not to mention its balanced by being available to all classes.

yelloweyedemon · June 2014

Kirsika wrote: »

The whole point of vamp speed is that it comes with the powerful drawback of being a vamp,

Yeah.. "drawback"...

Explains why half of Cyrodiil are vampires... Which is exactly the "drawback" ? A fire debuff which can be considerably reduced by only 1 ring? I won't even mention it when used on a Dark Elf.

Or some fighers guild abilities that do slightly less damage to vamps (When they decide to work)...

PS: Don't start with the current bugged SB as it will be fixed.

The only real advantage when I fight vamps on my NB is the skill Camouflaged Hunter, which just boosts my opener.

Worstluck · June 2014

Sunrock wrote: »

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

It is really ridiculous to see any class running faster in stealth than a Nightblade just because of this one passive vampire skill.

I know that NB's are not supposed to be an assassin typical MMO class, but since they rely SO much on stealth and stealth openers in pvp (for burst damage at least), they should have the best sneak in game. (Both Speed and stealth level).

Currently the vampire passive eliminates the sneak speed debuff, and gives you full speed while sneaking. That needs to be changed to be simillar to Concealed Weapon (NB skill) which increases sneak speed by 25%.

PS: There's also a 5 set bonus that acts just like the vampire passive, and it is on light armour ...

Hmm I fail to see way a NB have to be faster in stealth then a Vampire. NB will still be better at stealth as they are harder to detect. And its not like you cant be a Vampire and NB.

Nightblades have no skills or passives that make them harder to detect. Unless you mean the 2.9 second cloak, which is easily countered and can be heard by other players when it's cast.

Any class can sneak as well as Nightblades. I think instead of removing Dark Stalker, it should be nerfed, and a new passive should be given to Nightblades that give them better stealth and speed boost. I don't want to be a vampire for one passive, but I feel compelled too, as the normal stealth speed is too slow, and Concealed Weapon does not work consistently (25% not enough for me regardless).

yelloweyedemon · June 2014

Worstluck wrote: »

Sunrock wrote: »

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

It is really ridiculous to see any class running faster in stealth than a Nightblade just because of this one passive vampire skill.

I know that NB's are not supposed to be an assassin typical MMO class, but since they rely SO much on stealth and stealth openers in pvp (for burst damage at least), they should have the best sneak in game. (Both Speed and stealth level).

Currently the vampire passive eliminates the sneak speed debuff, and gives you full speed while sneaking. That needs to be changed to be simillar to Concealed Weapon (NB skill) which increases sneak speed by 25%.

PS: There's also a 5 set bonus that acts just like the vampire passive, and it is on light armour ...

Hmm I fail to see way a NB have to be faster in stealth then a Vampire. NB will still be better at stealth as they are harder to detect. And its not like you cant be a Vampire and NB.

Nightblades have no skills or passives that make them harder to detect. Unless you mean the 2.9 second cloak, which is easily countered and can be heard by other players when it's cast.

Any class can sneak as well as Nightblades. I think instead of removing Dark Stalker, it should be nerfed, and a new passive should be given to Nightblades that give them better stealth and speed boost. I don't want to be a vampire for one passive, but I feel compelled too, as the normal stealth speed is too slow, and Concealed Weapon does not work consistently (25% not enough for me regardless).

Exactly my point. I don't think that sneaking in normal walking speed should even exist in game, as it is far too powerfull for open world PvP, but if someone had to have it, it should be the class with stealth synergies.

A DK or a Sorc when ambushed by others, might just get a harder fight. A NB (when assassin/shadow specced) when ambushed, he almost lost the fight.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · June 2014

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

Kirsika wrote: »

The whole point of vamp speed is that it comes with the powerful drawback of being a vamp,

Yeah.. "drawback"...

Explains why half of Cyrodiil are vampires... Which is exactly the "drawback" ? A fire debuff which can be considerably reduced by only 1 ring? I won't even mention it when used on a Dark Elf.

Or some fighers guild abilities that do slightly less damage to vamps (When they decide to work)...

PS: Don't start with the current bugged SB as it will be fixed.

The only real advantage when I fight vamps on my NB is the skill Camouflaged Hunter, which just boosts my opener.

You and many others always miss the 9% more damage you do with everything to vampires, daedra, and werewolves. pretty damn big drawback.

yelloweyedemon · June 2014

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

Kirsika wrote: »

The whole point of vamp speed is that it comes with the powerful drawback of being a vamp,

Yeah.. "drawback"...

Explains why half of Cyrodiil are vampires... Which is exactly the "drawback" ? A fire debuff which can be considerably reduced by only 1 ring? I won't even mention it when used on a Dark Elf.

Or some fighers guild abilities that do slightly less damage to vamps (When they decide to work)...

PS: Don't start with the current bugged SB as it will be fixed.

The only real advantage when I fight vamps on my NB is the skill Camouflaged Hunter, which just boosts my opener.

You and many others always miss the 9% more damage you do with everything to vampires, daedra, and werewolves. pretty damn big drawback.

It was not working untill this patch (patch notes stated so), and I have no reason to believe it's working now. Even if it's working properly is is nothing considered to Dark Stalker or Undeath (if it ever gets fixed)

I think that every neutral player admits that there's no real drawback to being a vampire considering the boosts. Again, why do you think there are so many vampires in Cyrodiil (and the game overall) ? Especially in Cyrodiil 1/2 players are vamps. When I'm camping with my NB it goes like: Vamp,human,vamp,human,vamp,WW(once in a blue moon) ...

martinhpb16_ESO · June 2014

I am a vamp NB and I sacrifice a lot for that speed buff and stealth buff.

Fire resistance is minimal, take more damage from fighters guild attacks, regen is gimped with higher vamp levels.

And OP wants to take it away. It is the only advantage of having vamp. There is nothing else and you want to nerf it!!

Absolutely every non-NB vamp in my guild has dropped it. They report back that after dropping vamp they are a lot stronger.

I see nothing wrong with a non-NB who wants to play stealth being able to use vamp. To say that there are no drawbacks with vamp is totally wrong.

ALso it is the only effective way for a NB to go in stealth and do the single target assasination that it is designed to do.

OP you mention not one solid reason why this should be nerfed.

It is not that vamp passive is overpowered there has to be some payoff as a stealth NB and it is with vamp.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · June 2014

Now it works, now its a pretty damn big drawback. increased fire damage is also big considering the thread of oil pots and other fire siege equipment, all commonly used.

WraithAzraiel · June 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Vampire Nightblade reporting in

$Infraction$ · June 2014

Treading a fine line of essentially removing the only real bonus to having it left in game.

Sunrock · June 2014

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

Sunrock wrote: »

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

It is really ridiculous to see any class running faster in stealth than a Nightblade just because of this one passive vampire skill.

I know that NB's are not supposed to be an assassin typical MMO class, but since they rely SO much on stealth and stealth openers in pvp (for burst damage at least), they should have the best sneak in game. (Both Speed and stealth level).

Currently the vampire passive eliminates the sneak speed debuff, and gives you full speed while sneaking. That needs to be changed to be simillar to Concealed Weapon (NB skill) which increases sneak speed by 25%.

PS: There's also a 5 set bonus that acts just like the vampire passive, and it is on light armour ...

Hmm I fail to see way a NB have to be faster in stealth then a Vampire. NB will still be better at stealth as they are harder to detect. And its not like you cant be a Vampire and NB.

Yet we all know how it works... Magelight, detection pots... Stealth level is pretty much pointless. Even if the enemy is standing still and has no intention to move you have a 60% chance to be detected if you get close and be unable to open (properly) with concealed weapon/surprise attack. Even if you run in with shadow cloak. Even if the player is standing still I would open with ambush anytime...

Also my point is that you should NOT be forced to be vampire if you are a NB just because of 1 damn overpowered passive skill...

First of all the potion only last 10 sec and there is a 30 sec cool down to take a new potion. The cool down can be reduced with jewelry enchantments though. However I wonder how many that use alchemy runes in PvP.

For the mage light. Yes if you have mage light you will be detected if you're 3-4 meters from the person with it, even if you can sneek faster. So you will still have the same problem if you're a vampire. However far from every one or even a majority of players I see in Cyrodiil in my own faction use mage light.

And as you sad NB is does not equal ninja assassin in this game. Maybe have to wait until they resale the Dark Brotherhood and/or Thief guild before you can create a non vampire ninja character. I really hoping they release those NPC guilds soon.

Tintinabula · June 2014

Lord the crying when dark brotherhood comes out..ya'll gonna say vamps aint supposed be in that one too?

Columba · June 2014

Leave as is and leaver silver shards as is. I love the screams of the twilight monkeys as I turn them ash.

Nox_Aeterna · June 2014

Ridiculous , it makes perfect sense that vampires got that passive.

like you said , NBs are not meant to be the only ones with stealth you can bet that with the dark brotherhood and the thieves guild all the other classes even without vampire will get a LOT better in stealth, since right now NBs got most of the skills for it.

yelloweyedemon · June 2014

We don't know anything about DB or thieves guilds... They could be released in one or two years as far as we know... It's the current situation that matters. Not a future content with unknown abilities or launch timeline.

Yes as I said NB is not a typical assassin MMO class, and that's why ALL classes have access to sneaking. In which other MMO have you seen heavy armoured players with 2handed weapons roaming in stealth in PvP? (Don't give me examples, yes there might be a few, but it's highly controverial)

My point is that currently the ONLY class that relies on stealth to win is assassination/shadow NB's. They should be the ones to have the best sneaking/stealth in game.

No, a Dragonknight that can heal and dps multiple enemies at once, or a sorcerer in a traditional "mage" build should not run faster than me (NB) in stealth. If they get detected, they just lost a bonus damage to their opener. If I get detected, I almost lost the fight.

martinhpb16_ESO · June 2014

Columba wrote: »

Leave as is and leaver silver shards as is. I love the screams of the twilight monkeys as I turn them ash.

Vone day this vone vill have revenge and drink your blurrrrd muhaha

Frinkles · June 2014

Thank god you aren't a Dev.... the 50% weakness of vampires make fire resistance to be 50% less effective too. One fire ring of 1.5k resistance barely makes the changed the vampire vulnerability to fire from 150% to 130-125%ish.

Further sneak speed has almost no effect on how you engage targets, as has been said you simply don't open with melee in pvp sneak attacks, its way too risky and unreliable.

And last but not least, Nightblades can be vampires. Try out Steed stone+Concealed weapon+ dark stalker/Shadow Dancer.

I also don't see why you are dissing ligth armor, Nightblades in lore were always sneaky mages that ran real fast.

Alephen · June 2014

dragonknights are not faster in stealth than nightblades, caster mages are not faster in stealth than nightblades.

vampires are faster in stealth than non-vampires.

as it is suposed to be. if the disadvantages to vampire are nil, why then not be a vampire? of course OP knows there are disadvantages, but they go against his argument, so better to trivialize them than have a real discussion.

of course certain benefits are going to be in certain lines, and if you want those benefits you need choose that line. if you shouldnt be forced to be a vampire for the speed, then why should someone else be forced to be a nightblade for the stealth bonuses?

a much better argument could be made to give nightblades a passive speed bonus of maybe half the vampire speed. or even make each line independant and have no classes whatsoever. but to take it away from vampires would make no sense.

Xsorus · June 2014

People need to get over the concept of picking a class should give them this massive advantage over others.

Just because you picked an NB, doesn't mean you shouldn't be the best at stealth.

yelloweyedemon · June 2014

Frinkles wrote: »

Thank god you aren't a Dev.... the 50% weakness of vampires make fire resistance to be 50% less effective too. One fire ring of 1.5k resistance barely makes the changed the vampire vulnerability to fire from 150% to 130-125%ish.

Further sneak speed has almost no effect on how you engage targets, as has been said you simply don't open with melee in pvp sneak attacks, its way too risky and unreliable.

And last but not least, Nightblades can be vampires. Try out Steed stone+Concealed weapon+ dark stalker/Shadow Dancer.

I also don't see why you are dissing ligth armor, Nightblades in lore were always sneaky mages that ran real fast.

1: For a solo/small group player (like myself) sneak speed has EVERYTHING to do with how you engage targets. I can't start to imagine how many oportunities I have lost because I wasn't fast enough with buffs and ambush induction. (all coming from stealth possition the right time)

2: Steed stone is not an option. Shadow gives a 10% crit magnitude which is just too much to waste.

3: A NB assassin would nerf itself too much wearing light armour just to get shadow dancer's set

4: I don't really care about lore in pvp, but lore-wise assassins wear leather armour, not robes...

yelloweyedemon · June 2014

Alephen wrote: »

of course certain benefits are going to be in certain lines, and if you want those benefits you need choose that line. if you shouldnt be forced to be a vampire for the speed, then why should someone else be forced to be a nightblade for the stealth bonuses?

Have you even looked at my previous posts? NB's should be better at stealth, because 2 out of their 3 spec lines focus on stealth to get close to the damage of other classes. I didn't say other classes shouldn't have access to stealth, I said it should be less powerfull than that of the NBs.

Alephen wrote: »

a much better argument could be made to give nightblades a passive speed bonus of maybe half the vampire speed. or even make each line independant and have no classes whatsoever. but to take it away from vampires would make no sense.

NBs have an access to faster stealth. They should waste a morph of a 40% armour debuff (opener), to get a 25% stealth boost which results to a total ~ 62.5% overall stealth speed vs 100% vampire stealth speed...

Worstluck · June 2014

Lore-wise, Nightblades are better at stealth. In the single player games, I always play a Nightblade type character (see here). You could always level up your sneak skill. No sneak skill in this game, everyone has the same sneak. Although it's not one of their major skills, it was necessary to level up sneak because NB's are not meant for brawling style fighting, they are quick and agile. We are no more agile than anyone else in medium armor

EDIT: Ok someone mentioned Dark Brotherhood. I would very happy if they moved that passive to that skill tree if it has one; or Thieves guild.

Tintinabula · June 2014

a good player wont wear fire resist. They will dodge and use that "oh so awesome " fire resist slot for added spell harm etc. If i knew i could not dodge and roll or not be able to say "hmm maybe I shouldn't run through the oil rain" then yes..fire resist is fine.

So a good vamp doesn't have fire resist. We better our game play. There is no dodging..say.. silver shards.There should be a nice passive and its not huge anyways..only allows me a few more seconds as the zerg races towards me while i retreat.(in hide)

P.S. Id like to add: here is yet another post calling for a vamp nerf and vamps haven't even been provided their original skill line un bugged yet. You are still rooting vamps in Mist form(you are benefiting from that)..you are welcome.