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Nerf/Change Dark Stalker passive (Vampire)

  • Soloeus
    Soloeus
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    It is really ridiculous to see any class running faster in stealth than a Nightblade just because of this one passive vampire skill.

    I know that NB's are not supposed to be an assassin typical MMO class, but since they rely SO much on stealth and stealth openers in pvp (for burst damage at least), they should have the best sneak in game. (Both Speed and stealth level).

    Currently the vampire passive eliminates the sneak speed debuff, and gives you full speed while sneaking. That needs to be changed to be simillar to Concealed Weapon (NB skill) which increases sneak speed by 25%.

    PS: There's also a 5 set bonus that acts just like the vampire passive, and it is on light armour ...

    Vampires shouldn't be allowed to "run" in stealth. It needs reduced in potency.

    Within; Without.
  • DeLindsay
    DeLindsay
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    Soloeus wrote: »
    Vampires shouldn't be allowed to "run" in stealth. It needs reduced in potency.

    It doesn't need any change but all of this talk may be moot if the recent change to Night's Silence set was intended and (once they get it actually working) will make having Vampire for the sneak bonus almost useless. So basically this has turned out to be another thread about 'nerf Vamps dey too op yo'.
  • Soloeus
    Soloeus
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    DeLindsay wrote: »
    Soloeus wrote: »
    Vampires shouldn't be allowed to "run" in stealth. It needs reduced in potency.

    It doesn't need any change but all of this talk may be moot if the recent change to Night's Silence set was intended and (once they get it actually working) will make having Vampire for the sneak bonus almost useless. So basically this has turned out to be another thread about 'nerf Vamps dey too op yo'.

    If they get Nights Silence fixed, it will help things a lot. I think the only reason people care is because there is no other real way into that. Steed Stone + Mundus Set doesn't even let you run stealthed.

    It only works at night, so it isn't worth getting excited about. It isn't like vamps have a whole lot going for them. I finally caved and got cured when the CC patch stopped me from being able to heal while still letting me get rooted in Mist Form. I almost kept it because I really like Resto Bats Ultimate but I finally decided to use Negate Magic instead.

    Within; Without.
  • Morticielle
    Morticielle
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    It is really ridiculous to see any class running faster in stealth than a Nightblade just because of this one passive vampire skill.
    There is no CLASS that runs faster in stealth than a NB. Vampire is no class, it is an ability line EVERYBODY and therefore YOU too can skill. If you feel that you have to run as fast as a vampire, you should become a vampire. If you don't want to be a vampire, so you will be slower than them. Take it or leave it.

    I can not see, that you are in ANY way disadvantaged by that. Stop crying for nerfs. I can't stand this "nerf this, nerf that!"-*** in this forum anymore. People get a little frustrated and first thing they do is opening a "Nerf XYZ!"-thread here in the forum. I really wonder how those people get through real life without crying their eyes out.
    Lady Morticielle d'Aragòn |VR12| Sorcerer | PvP Rank 21 (Major Grade I) | EU-Megaserver | AD

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  • yelloweyedemon
    yelloweyedemon
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    It is really ridiculous to see any class running faster in stealth than a Nightblade just because of this one passive vampire skill.
    There is no CLASS that runs faster in stealth than a NB. Vampire is no class, it is an ability line EVERYBODY and therefore YOU too can skill. If you feel that you have to run as fast as a vampire, you should become a vampire. If you don't want to be a vampire, so you will be slower than them. Take it or leave it.

    I can not see, that you are in ANY way disadvantaged by that. Stop crying for nerfs. I can't stand this "nerf this, nerf that!"-*** in this forum anymore. People get a little frustrated and first thing they do is opening a "Nerf XYZ!"-thread here in the forum. I really wonder how those people get through real life without crying their eyes out.

    2 out of 3 skill lines of NB, require stealth and sneaking to be played properly. No other class has that requirement.

    Vampire should be something optional. No NB's should be forced to become a vampire just because they have the best sneaking speed in game which is coming only from one passive.
  • HiP
    HiP
    ✭✭
    2 out of 3 skill lines of NB, require stealth and sneaking to be played properly. No other class has that requirement.

    Vampire should be something optional. No NB's should be forced to become a vampire just because they have the best sneaking speed in game which is coming only from one passive.

    Not at all. it is only you that are limiting yourself by reading it that way....
    "you have 2 skill lines that get HUGE bonuses from stealth" should be the way you read it. they don't require stealth. YOU require stealth... theonly thing you could say is that lots of skills require to be in melee range.
    if you bet that much on the opener, you will lose every fight you make when your opener fails (block, dodge, CC, detected...) or when you get an add.

    you are not forced to become a vampire. you have a choice to get an additionnal bonus to stealth, by trading your damage and fire sensitivity for it.
    you don't need that speed. you are just envious and jealous of it. just get it, and be done with it.
    you want the bonus without the trade off, that much is obvious.
  • DeLindsay
    DeLindsay
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    HiP wrote: »
    Not at all. it is only you that are limiting yourself by reading it that way....
    "you have 2 skill lines that get HUGE bonuses from stealth" should be the way you read it. they don't require stealth. YOU require stealth... theonly thing you could say is that lots of skills require to be in melee range.
    if you bet that much on the opener, you will lose every fight you make when your opener fails (block, dodge, CC, detected...) or when you get an add.

    you are not forced to become a vampire. you have a choice to get an additionnal bonus to stealth, by trading your damage and fire sensitivity for it.
    you don't need that speed. you are just envious and jealous of it. just get it, and be done with it.
    you want the bonus without the trade off, that much is obvious.

    Don't worry, even though your response is well laid out and easy to comprehend @yelloweyedemon will still argue with you just like me and everyone else that has repeated the same thing in different ways. Great comment btw.
  • yelloweyedemon
    yelloweyedemon
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    HiP wrote: »
    2 out of 3 skill lines of NB, require stealth and sneaking to be played properly. No other class has that requirement.

    Vampire should be something optional. No NB's should be forced to become a vampire just because they have the best sneaking speed in game which is coming only from one passive.

    Not at all. it is only you that are limiting yourself by reading it that way....
    "you have 2 skill lines that get HUGE bonuses from stealth" should be the way you read it. they don't require stealth. YOU require stealth... theonly thing you could say is that lots of skills require to be in melee range.
    if you bet that much on the opener, you will lose every fight you make when your opener fails (block, dodge, CC, detected...) or when you get an add.

    you are not forced to become a vampire. you have a choice to get an additionnal bonus to stealth, by trading your damage and fire sensitivity for it.
    you don't need that speed. you are just envious and jealous of it. just get it, and be done with it.
    you want the bonus without the trade off, that much is obvious.

    If you don't rely on stealth when using a shadow assassinatioon build, you are doing it wrong.

    Yes as you said, you don't have to use stealth in order to play, but that's like saying a Daedric Summoning sorc, does not have to use pets, or a healing templar does not have to use heals. You can play in all situations, but you are nerfing yourself big time.

    Losing the opener on a burst damage NB is not an option.

    At your last point, Yes, you do need the stealth speed for pvp. (If you play a burst damage NB at least). All the other classes do not "need" it, it just helps. That's why 8/10 NB's are vampires. Many of them didn't want to become a vamp, but they felt they are forced to. That's my point.
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    On my vampire character, I'm a little upset that 2 skillpoints of health regen improvement don't function. So not only do Fire powers, Silver Shards and Fighters Guild abilities hit me like a truck, but additionally I have no health regen. The health regen does make a difference, and the fact the skillpoints are a big waste is a letdown. I'm fine with Vampires having the stealth passive, in my view its one of the big draws to that race. I do agree that a character should be able to acquire that same kind of speed via enchantments. I think this would remove any problems. Enchantments and Potions were always a way to make yourself more versatile in TES games. IF your race was good at XYZ, you often didn't pick up more of those enchantments (apart from maybe capping that effect) and instead picked other things to round out your style. In this manner, I think a stealth speed boost enchantment would be fantastic.
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • yelloweyedemon
    yelloweyedemon
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    On my vampire character, I'm a little upset that 2 skillpoints of health regen improvement don't function. So not only do Fire powers, Silver Shards and Fighters Guild abilities hit me like a truck, but additionally I have no health regen. The health regen does make a difference, and the fact the skillpoints are a big waste is a letdown. I'm fine with Vampires having the stealth passive, in my view its one of the big draws to that race. I do agree that a character should be able to acquire that same kind of speed via enchantments. I think this would remove any problems. Enchantments and Potions were always a way to make yourself more versatile in TES games. IF your race was good at XYZ, you often didn't pick up more of those enchantments (apart from maybe capping that effect) and instead picked other things to round out your style. In this manner, I think a stealth speed boost enchantment would be fantastic.

    Not sure about enchantments, but there should be a medium armour set that acts just like Dark Stalker/shadow dancer, and it should be available for all veteran ranks. They gave that bonus to a light armour, which you can't improve after V6...

  • HiP
    HiP
    ✭✭
    you can get it at VR12 by doing raids.
    and there is a craft set until it was bugged recently...

    well, it seems you don't bother reading other people's arguments, you just keep hammering yours until you feel they become the absolute truth, even if they are completely false :D
    bottomline : if you want the vampire speed, then become a vampire. you said yourself that the drawbacks did not matter. with the recent silver bolts fail from zos, lots of vampires got cured, so you would now be much faster than most of cyrodiil :D
  • Amathoynn
    Amathoynn
    Soul Shriven
    As with any MMO, one shouldn't pick a class/race/build based on what's best at that time. As many know, many changes in the form of buffs/nerfs will happen in the course of any MMO's lifetime. So pick and play how you want. The below may not have perfect information, but I'm hoping you'll get the point.

    As stated for many various reasons already, Vampires are not OP. Just as any other build, in-game, If you want to focus on killing a particular thing, you have to build for it or do an average/above average all-around build. If you don't focus on killing any undead, daedra, vamps, werewolves, etc... you then may be more powerful to kill everything else. Give/Take.

    Likewise for vamps/ww's. They have to use valuable skill points to build their respective lines up that could further be used in other lines.

    Vamp Benefits:

    - Good Sneak (depending on playstyle/class this may not matter)
    - A life syphon (NB's have a similar but non-channeled one)
    - Bat Swarm (You have to be close for it to matter. Imho other ultimates are better and ranged.
    - Mist Form (Can be easily debunked, whether or not it's working)

    Vamp Cons:

    - Should go w/o saying that vamp abilities take up valuable slots.

    - Vampire Stages (It's hard to find solo npcs to feed off at times and stages have different feeding time limits, making feeding a pain. Max Stage 4 is only good for reducing costs of 'vamp' abilities, not others)
    - If running Stage 4 as a vamp, you hardly have any health regen if any.

    - Fire Vulnerability (By using 1-2 slots for resists, A vamp of any class is making themselves weaker in other areas. Unfortunately, there's ALOT of fire in the game.)
    - Beside the fire vulnerability, it's made even worse with anything other than Stage 1 vampirism due to the lack of health regen, multiplying that effect.
    - No matter what others say, dodge helps, but no one's perfect.

    - Fighters Guild Skills (If working properly OMG, dead vamps and werewolves )

    - Even at Stage One, a ring of resist and good stealth isn't going to outdo a NB at an equal level of skill with points spent elsewhere.

    Vampires aren't OP. Like everything else in the game, sometimes one needs to adapt and change strategies for a given situation.
    Edited by Amathoynn on September 16, 2014 9:09PM
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