The problem with modern MMOs...

Phinix1 · June 2014

Everyone is trying WAY too hard for some new gimmick that ALWAYS ends up failing miserably, and more and more they completely neglect the core formula that makes these games desirable in the process.

Please, for the love of GOD! STOP trying to create the next big PVP gimmick! STOP trying to create the next ridiculously cheeseball PVE gimmick!

We don't give a flying arse about justice or multiculturalism or any of the other half-brained BS you devs are trying to cram down our damn throat.

We want group content that is FUN and rewarding, not POINTLESS TEDIUM that the most hardcore eastern grinders wouldn't stick with.

We want a dungeon finder that groups us with similarly geared and experienced players, not a "lfg" spam channel where you get hooked up with one maddeningly fail-pug after another.

We want core mechanics that make our class choice feel meaningful, and LORE that ties into and reinforces this.

We want agency and a sense of purpose.

We want progression and a sense of our actions having some effect on the world.

We want our efforts to make us feel like we have accomplished something more than a popup that lets us know we've unlocked the "killed 10 skeevers" achievement.

We want to look unique. We want to feel powerful.

We want to be a part of something that is fun and worth doing.

I will pay to visit a carnival. I will NOT pay to be dragged behind a tent and *** by an elitist clown who thinks he's the next big thing to hit the gaming industry.

Pull your head out and follow the formula FIRST gaming industry. You're letting us all down!

Mablung · June 2014

The problem comes down to one word and when you see someone say this in an interview or press release, run and never look back.

That word is VISION.

Laura · June 2014

um most of my friends quit because they said its lacking the the justice system and other elder scrolls tenants. I agree with a lot of your post but any time you roll EVERYONE up into a collective, "nobody cares about... everyone agrees..." you have already lost your argument.

A LOT of people DO care about the justice system and many of the things they want to add (i'm one of them)

I would also like to see traditional sprawling epic raids that take weeks and weeks of progression and reputations. Other basic things like this.

Phinix1 · June 2014

You make my point though. These big game companies are totally burnt out. They are in it for the money and the whistling Bob's that hold the purse strings care more about being copycats, trying to milk the failure of other big companies, and screwing people over to gain an advantage than creating something beautiful and unique.

nudel · June 2014

Speak for yourself OP. I also care about the justice system.

Phantorang · June 2014

@AlienDiplomat, your tone and wording completely ruins any validity your opinions might have had. Most of ESO playerbase could recoginize your concerns, but your wording is way to agressive and the Community Representatives will NEVER push this to a Dev, simply because of the way you present your view.

I agree ESO should have Proper rewards for doing raids such as the Archives in Craglorn, Time Trials is far out of reach for the average gamer.

Same with PvP rankings, not possible for the average gamer to even hope for a top 1000.

The Rankings are ok, but NOT ok when its the only reward. It should be possible for the average gamer to be rewarded too, like for example with some nice unique loot.

Give us a 40 man raid with proper loot to be proud of.

Balance the classes, make Templar DPS at least on par with the other classes, same with magica/stamina regen.

Phinix1 · June 2014

LOL what even IS the "justice system?" Like there is this overly convoluted and cheesy court system you go through because you killed an opposing factions guard or something?

Liquid_Time · June 2014

I like this word being used so often... "We"
I would like you to please edit that to "I"

This game has a great foundation to build from and the ideas that can be added are limitless... Either enjoy the game while it grows or jump ship now and keep yourself in the loop by watching YouTube videos.

Phinix1 · June 2014

Oh come on, are we really going to play the symantecs game instead of addressing the issues? What a disappointment.

The problem myself and MANY others are having right now is there doesn't appear to be a "loop." There is just a lot of big money industry copying each other trying to come out with the next rushed gimmick to grab a bunch of early subscriber dollars, and there is a very fixed quantity of disappointment a consumer base will tolerate before they indeed move on.

To other forms of entertainment.

Mablung · June 2014

I think that I am missing the point. The OP seems to be all over the place.

Phinix1 · June 2014

Mablung wrote: »

I think that I am missing the point. The OP seems to be all over the place.

Here you go: [Map].

Don't try and follow it to my continued interest in this discussion though.

Liquid_Time · June 2014

Many of your previous discussions are simply complaints and rants.. Do you not enjoy this game?

Mablung · June 2014

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Many of your previous discussions are simply complaints and rants.. Do you not enjoy this game?

People need to accept that there is nothing wrong with complaining and ranting. The problem is posting in a way that is easily understandable especially if english is not your primary language. It can be hard to understand the points being made and creates a lot of confusion for everyone.

Liquid_Time · June 2014

Mablung wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Many of your previous discussions are simply complaints and rants.. Do you not enjoy this game?

People need to accept that there is nothing wrong with complaining and ranting. The problem is posting in a way that is easily understandable especially if english is not your primary language. It can be hard to understand the points being made and creates a lot of confusion for everyone.

That was not my question..
If I had a problem with others complaining I wouldn't be on the forums.

Mablung · June 2014

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Many of your previous discussions are simply complaints and rants.. Do you not enjoy this game?

That was not my question..
If I had a problem with others complaining I wouldn't be on the forums.

If it is not relevant to your question then why include it at all?

Liquid_Time · June 2014

Mablung wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Many of your previous discussions are simply complaints and rants.. Do you not enjoy this game?

That was not my question..
If I had a problem with others complaining I wouldn't be on the forums.

If it is not relevant to your question then why include it at all?

I provided information that leads me to believe that they do not enjoy the game. Then followed it with a question.

Your statement is what fails to be relevant to my post.

SilverWF · June 2014

The problem with modern MMOs...
too many moaners and whiners around, who didn't want learning to play - they want only "win" button

Mablung · June 2014

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Many of your previous discussions are simply complaints and rants.. Do you not enjoy this game?

That was not my question..
If I had a problem with others complaining I wouldn't be on the forums.

If it is not relevant to your question then why include it at all?

I provided information that leads me to believe that they do not enjoy the game. Then followed it with a question.

Your statement is what fails to be relevant to my post.

Your post is passive aggressive and appears to be setting up the individual for whatever clever retort you have at the ready. Continue to post in this manner and I will continue to ask you the relevancy of asking questions in a passive aggressive manner.

Mablung · June 2014

SilverWF wrote: »

The problem with modern MMOs...
too many moaners and whiners around, who didn't want learning to play - they want only "win" button

It is funny how the true moaners and whiners only appear to be those doing just that about people stating issues about the game. I have yet to see someone who is posting about legitimate issues with their gaming experience resort to attacking the people who blindly support this game.

Liquid_Time · June 2014

Mablung wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Many of your previous discussions are simply complaints and rants.. Do you not enjoy this game?

That was not my question..
If I had a problem with others complaining I wouldn't be on the forums.

If it is not relevant to your question then why include it at all?

I provided information that leads me to believe that they do not enjoy the game. Then followed it with a question.

Your statement is what fails to be relevant to my post.

Your post is passive aggressive and appears to be setting up the individual for whatever clever retort you have at the ready. Continue to post in this manner and I will continue to ask you the relevancy of asking questions in a passive aggressive manner.

Wow I am to tired for this.. I will bite non the less.

My question (which you felt the need to quote) was simply trying to understand if they truly enjoy this game..

If they said "yes".. awesome! I am glad to see that.. No further questions.

If "No, not currently".. then I was going to ask what are the biggest problem as of current that are preventing them from enjoying this game to further his/her discussion.

If you could not tell.. the OP is all over the place on information. (which someone else called out already)

Now.. Go forth and continue to quote me and add no value to this discussion... please..

Edit: Yes, my posts seem passive aggressive.. Not intended. However I am not going to go back and edit them. Meh..

Mablung · June 2014

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Many of your previous discussions are simply complaints and rants.. Do you not enjoy this game?

That was not my question..
If I had a problem with others complaining I wouldn't be on the forums.

If it is not relevant to your question then why include it at all?

I provided information that leads me to believe that they do not enjoy the game. Then followed it with a question.

Your statement is what fails to be relevant to my post.

Your post is passive aggressive and appears to be setting up the individual for whatever clever retort you have at the ready. Continue to post in this manner and I will continue to ask you the relevancy of asking questions in a passive aggressive manner.

Wow I am to tired for this.. I will bite non the less.

My question (which you felt the need to quote) was simply trying to understand if they truly enjoy this game..

If they said "yes".. awesome! I am glad to see that.. No further questions.

If "No, not currently".. then I was going to ask what are the biggest problem as of current that are preventing them from enjoying this game to further his/her discussion.

If you could not tell.. the OP is all over the place on information. (which someone else called out already)

Now.. Go forth and continue to quote me and add no value to this discussion... please..

Edit: Yes, my posts seem passive aggressive.. Not intended. However I am not going to go back and edit them. Meh..

You obviously did not read the thread. I stated he was all over the place. He has no obvious point to make. However, it is still his right to complain whether he is playing or not. The question you pose, no matter the reasoning, is irrelevant to the topic of this thread.

Liquid_Time · June 2014

Mablung wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Many of your previous discussions are simply complaints and rants.. Do you not enjoy this game?

That was not my question..
If I had a problem with others complaining I wouldn't be on the forums.

If it is not relevant to your question then why include it at all?

I provided information that leads me to believe that they do not enjoy the game. Then followed it with a question.

Your statement is what fails to be relevant to my post.

Your post is passive aggressive and appears to be setting up the individual for whatever clever retort you have at the ready. Continue to post in this manner and I will continue to ask you the relevancy of asking questions in a passive aggressive manner.

Wow I am to tired for this.. I will bite non the less.

My question (which you felt the need to quote) was simply trying to understand if they truly enjoy this game..

If they said "yes".. awesome! I am glad to see that.. No further questions.

If "No, not currently".. then I was going to ask what are the biggest problem as of current that are preventing them from enjoying this game to further his/her discussion.

If you could not tell.. the OP is all over the place on information. (which someone else called out already)

Now.. Go forth and continue to quote me and add no value to this discussion... please..

Edit: Yes, my posts seem passive aggressive.. Not intended. However I am not going to go back and edit them. Meh..

You obviously did not read the thread. I stated he was all over the place. He has no obvious point to make. However, it is still his right to complain whether he is playing or not. The question you pose, no matter the reasoning, is irrelevant to the topic of this thread.

-facepalm-

Have a nice day.

Turelus · June 2014

I would rather companies try new things than the MMO industry remain stagnant and all we see is WoW clone after WoW clone because that's the one everyone feels is what an MMO should be.

Personally I would love to see more single shard sandbox MMO's like EVE Online where instead of running through a set of premade content we can consume in the first two months (or week for some) the players create new content for each other with open world PVP, real economies and trade.

Did ZOS get everything right with ESO? No. Did they make something different and interesting to a lot of people? Yes.
I left SWTOR and many other MMO's because the PVP was a stale battleground of queue, 10mins PVP, queue 10mins PVP, repeat. The PVP in ESO is a nice feel of open world conflict where every night is slightly different.
I honestly feel ESO could have a fantastic future ahead of it if ZOS can work more sandbox features into Cyrodiil and the game in general rather than focusing on more complete in a week theme park content.

Phinix1 · June 2014

Turelus wrote: »

I would rather companies try new things than the MMO industry remain stagnant and all we see is WoW clone after WoW clone because that's the one everyone feels is what an MMO should be.

One word: STORY.

THAT is where companies should be attempting to innovate, not some gimmicky BS. But the big companies don't want to PAY writers to produce deep, powerful lore.

This is a trend in so many modern media industries. It is almost like a religion in a way. A big company COULD pay a talented writer to work WITH them to increase the intellectual property value of their product...

However, and I see this trend everywhere on the internet and in modern society at large with its obsession with ownership, surveillance, and "domination," that if they can screw over talent, steal people's work, off of blogs or Kickstarter promos or straight off their computers (or worse), even if the work is unfinished, and of poor quality due to the CONTEXT they take it from, they would rather screw them over and steal it than work together.

It is an every ego for himself industry of stubborn elitist capitalist pricks.

Enkil · June 2014

Turelus wrote: »

I would rather companies try new things than the MMO industry remain stagnant and all we see is WoW clone after WoW clone because that's the one everyone feels is what an MMO should be.

Personally I would love to see more single shard sandbox MMO's like EVE Online where instead of running through a set of premade content we can consume in the first two months (or week for some) the players create new content for each other with open world PVP, real economies and trade.

Did ZOS get everything right with ESO? No. Did they make something different and interesting to a lot of people? Yes.
I left SWTOR and many other MMO's because the PVP was a stale battleground of queue, 10mins PVP, queue 10mins PVP, repeat. The PVP in ESO is a nice feel of open world conflict where every night is slightly different.
I honestly feel ESO could have a fantastic future ahead of it if ZOS can work more sandbox features into Cyrodiil and the game in general rather than focusing on more complete in a week theme park content.

I agree completely... Instead of taking inspiration from WoW.. they should look to sandbox games.. like Shadowbane for instance..... I am hoping they add more sandbox features in the future.. Would have been awesome for guilds to be able to build their own keeps and towns in Cyrodiil, then have those be vulnerable to siege by enemy guilds. That would have allowed for a lot more diplomacy and intrigue and made the world more dynamic. People would be invested in their guild cities.

Phinix1 · June 2014

Enkil wrote: »

I agree completely... Instead of taking inspiration from WoW.. they should look to sandbox games.. like Shadowbane for instance..... I am hoping they add more sandbox features in the future.. Would have been awesome for guilds to be able to build their own keeps and towns in Cyrodiil, then have those be vulnerable to siege by enemy guilds. That would have allowed for a lot more diplomacy and intrigue and made the world more dynamic. People would be invested in their guild cities.

I like your idea on paper, however I think PVP is by and large a lost cause for one very simple and ubiquitous reason:

ZERG.

ALL PVP, no matter how innovative or immerse, inevitably devolves into zerg, and zerg is just really boring and maddeningly tedious.

Sure you would have people that invested time in building up their resources, but the majority of kids out there would never care about diplomacy or roleplay intrigues. They would scream "KILL THEM ALL" and go mongolian zerg 9 times out of 10.

Nazon_Katts · June 2014

So you dislike corporatism? That's something I can agree with, but we're drifting too much into the political sphere here and ToS breach would be imminent.

What I don't agree with that in this particular case quality of story nor lore is a weak factor. Just the presentation of which in a single player centric way, rather than just relaying the story and the lore through living and breathing world.

Multiplayer story telling is the most neglected aspect of the MMO genre and it's pretty much still in it's infancy, compared to other defining features. With the recent shift towards sanbox/-parks, here's hoping we'll see developers exploring and refining this new story telling technique.

Enkil · June 2014

It's still fun.. It you ever played Shadowbane, there was a lot of zerging... but a siege(bane) was the most fun you could possibly have... The guild and nation leaders would have to work to build alliances if they wanted allies to call on when their city was threatened. Guilds could sub other guilds and bring their cities under their protection forming a nation. It was brilliant. If the whole server showed up... it was even more fun as long as it wasn't too laggy on your individual machine. Here, Cyrodiil campaigns have limits on how many people can be in the zone so it already has some controls that would temper the zergs.

Phinix1 · June 2014

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

So you dislike corporatism? That's something I can agree with, but we're drifting too much into the political sphere here and ToS breach would be imminent.

What I don't agree with that in this particular case quality of story nor lore is a weak factor. Just the presentation of which in a single player centric way, rather than just relaying the story and the lore through living and breathing world.

Multiplayer story telling is the most neglected aspect of the MMO genre and it's pretty much still in it's infancy, compared to other defining features. With the recent shift towards sanbox/-parks, here's hoping we'll see developers exploring and refining this new story telling technique.

Companies don't want to pay authors. It is as simple as that. They will spend MILLIONS conducting invasive surveillance, infiltration of "enemy camp" forums and blogospheres, all to attempt to avoid spending half that much just paying the damn talent to do the work.

What is the mental block these idiots have here?

With regard to the lore in this game, I honestly think they relied a bit too heavily on the books from previous Elder Scrolls titles without incorporating it enough as you say into a living breathing world.

People dig the books in Elder Scrolls games because they can take as much time as they like with them. People do NOT pay a monthly sub to read books. People pay a monthly sub to be taken on a ride, to be engaged, challenged, involved, and entertained.

kevlarto_ESO · June 2014

"we" who is we ? there are as many ideas of what makes a game good as there are people playing it.. and fun is so subjective, kinda like ones man's trash is another man's treasure.. but does not hurt to throw out ideas and sugestions that a lot of player might enjoy, never going to please everyone in an mmo, the best you can shoot for is pleasing as many as you can.

Kulrig · June 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

We want a dungeon finder that groups us with similarly geared and experienced players, not a "lfg" spam channel where you get hooked up with one maddeningly fail-pug after another.

A lot of players want this in other games, too. Most of the time they get a dungeon finder that groups us with an idiot, an elitist jerk who can't run dungeons with his guild because they don't like him either, a brand new healer that thinks he knows everything since he read a guide, and someone who AFKs until kicked.