DK Solos Craglorn

RageGamerRyan · June 2014

ViciousWayz wrote: »

LOL Wildstar oh "everyone is jumping ship for Wildstar" really? And what are you doing, clicking your counter as everyone exits then joins up Wildstar? Or are you just assuming to speak on behalf of everyone. Learn the difference from your own opinion to facts. Yes ZOS should fix things before doing tons of nerfs, but if your class relies on 2 ultimates it was definitely a broken class to begin with and needs to be fixed regardless. Unnecessary shield bash? Oh as a Vamp.. I say the unnecessary nerf of bat swarm since very few were abusing it but everyone in Cyrodiil was getting utterly owned from it. Yes you may see it as unnecessary, but many do not. And I say many for certainty with reading the comments, other forums, etc..

Can we add a dislike/disagree button on people's posts please? LOL

I really hate comments like yours, so much ignorance... Did you really say "but if your class relies on 2 ultimate's it was definitely a broken class to begin with" are you serious? EVERY CLASS HAS ONLY 3 GOD DAMN ULTI's what is wrong with you? LOL Banner wasn't even the issue people were complaining about banner in PvP saying it was too strong because they failed to roll out of it... The corrosive armor nerf wasn't needed at all, that ulti was fine, the only thing that made it worth using was the ulti regen from crit hits, but they nerfed that too, FOR EVERYONE so because a few kids complained about something that didn't even affect them they ended up getting everyones ulti regen nerfed LOL this community man, for real.

fknapp46b14_ESO · June 2014

Been reading through all of these posts, some good points were made and some not so good...

I guess my only thought is, why does it matter if someone can solo something you can't? What he does has no impact on my game play and fun.

Wifeaggro13 · June 2014

ViciousWayz wrote: »

LOL Wildstar oh "everyone is jumping ship for Wildstar" really? And what are you doing, clicking your counter as everyone exits then joins up Wildstar? Or are you just assuming to speak on behalf of everyone. Learn the difference from your own opinion to facts. Yes ZOS should fix things before doing tons of nerfs, but if your class relies on 2 ultimates it was definitely a broken class to begin with and needs to be fixed regardless. Unnecessary shield bash? Oh as a Vamp.. I say the unnecessary nerf of bat swarm since very few were abusing it but everyone in Cyrodiil was getting utterly owned from it. Yes you may see it as unnecessary, but many do not. And I say many for certainty with reading the comments, other forums, etc..

Can we add a dislike/disagree button on people's posts please? LOL

Well they are actually just leaving because of the state of VR , imbalances and exploits. I dont know that they are going to wild star but there is maybe 20 percent of the players still playing in all five of my guilds. All of them had 40 to 60 actives daily. now all four are lucky to 15 a day. and all the fifteen say its the same in their other guilds. these are not people that left guild they are completely in active accounts. the exodus has started thats a fact , i had high hopes for retention 3 weeks ago. not so much now.

Natenorse666ub17_ESO2 · June 2014

I applaud the fella for figuring out how to solo some of the place, I know soloing raid content was my favorite thing to do on my Deathknight on WoW.

But the resto and destro staff abilities need to be nerfed to where it is impossible to solo current Trial content. A balanced endgame where all the classes are viable and melee is not entirely useless is ESO's best hope for standing the test of time and surviving as an MMO.

Mark my words Zenimax, if you do not address these issues promptly, all the money invested in TESO will have been utterly wasted. There are other MMOs out there competing for the player's money and time and if you don't have your act together, your product will die. Plain and simple.

My constructive criticism/suggestions would be to:
* Increase the direct damage from melee and spell attacks that those wearing light armor take relative to the damage taken by those in heavy armor from the same attacks. (They ARE wearing cloth as opposed to plate afterall.)
* Reduce fire initial damage. (Emphasis on DOTs)
* Reduce self healing and damage throughput of DKs, Sorcs and the Destro staff.
* Fix NB and Temp bugs.
* Buff NB healing and damage throughput. (NB burst dmg is very high but their throughput is very low. This can be fixed by removing the damage done debuff from siphoning attacks)
* Temp damage and healing is OK but the class needs improved resource recovery to keep up throughput on long fights. (They only seem low on damage and survival right now because they don't jive with the restodestro setup like DKs and Sorcs do; a nerf to the staves should suffice to even the playing field.)
* Lower spell damage and increase melee damage across the board.
(Doesn't need to be draconian, but changes which cause melee initial damage to be higher while spell initial damage is lower in comparison but grant damaging or debuffing status effects to compensate would make for much more balanced and nuanced gameplay.)
* Improve melee viability by removing the limitations to melee damage effects such as the bleed damage from axes. The easiest way would be to remove bleed immunity from all enemies (Afterall, flame atronachs are clearly not immune to fire damage even though if they were it would make total sense.) and set the bleed at a percentage of damage done stacking up to X amount of times.
* Scale back the amount of double dipping sorc and DK abilities have with light armor and stave abilities and passives.
* Add diminishing returns on AOE damage-to-healing abilities and effects.
* Finally, and this is something I suggest tentatively and with a bit of consternation, strike all trial times and leaderboard positions established prior to the fix from the trial records and leaderboards. Those who achieved those times did so with excessively overpowered builds which exploited a design weakness/flaw but did not do so with any malicious intent or desire to willfully circumvent fair gameplay. Because of this, it would be unfair to penalize them for simply going with what works when it is the fault of the developers for not fully vetting class balance prior to release. However, to fix the OPness which allowed for such records while leaving them there, completely unattainable post-fix, would dissuade players from attempting records in those particular trials in the future. Thus those records should be stripped away while the record holders should not themselves be penalized. (No reprimands, rollbacks, achievement loss, etc. neccessary.)

~Please take these ideas into account Zenimax but as I am as flawed as any one of your design team, be sure to thoroughly vet any changes as to ensure such balance issues do not further plague your game in the future. It is common for any new MMO to have problems and class/role/build balance is one of the most endemic of issues but the measure of an MMO's success early on is how well and how swiftly these issues are addressed and fixed. And I wholeheartedly want to see ESO succeed.

Adramelach · June 2014

Wow... that video of the Trial is amazing. What ability is it that keeps his health at or almost at 100% through the entire first battle with the many fire atronauchs? I was astounded...

I thought my sorc was pretty good, but I think I'm itching to roll a DK/Light/Destro/Resto now, that was just incredible. Makes me think I could survive some VR content with a build like that lol.

Therium104 · June 2014

ViciousWayz wrote: »

LOL Wildstar oh "everyone is jumping ship for Wildstar" really? And what are you doing, clicking your counter as everyone exits then joins up Wildstar? Or are you just assuming to speak on behalf of everyone. Learn the difference from your own opinion to facts. Yes ZOS should fix things before doing tons of nerfs, but if your class relies on 2 ultimates it was definitely a broken class to begin with and needs to be fixed regardless. Unnecessary shield bash? Oh as a Vamp.. I say the unnecessary nerf of bat swarm since very few were abusing it but everyone in Cyrodiil was getting utterly owned from it. Yes you may see it as unnecessary, but many do not. And I say many for certainty with reading the comments, other forums, etc..

Can we add a dislike/disagree button on people's posts please? LOL

Dude. I am not sure what to tell you other than most of the people I know are leaving ESO. These people are going to Wildstar. I don't care if you don't like it.

This thread really is pathetic. First, the real issue is how light armor, magic regen, and staves work. Not class specific abilities as other classes including NB using similar set ups can solo group content. Many DK do not even use light armor or staves so a nerf to class abilities just hurts other builds that are unrelated to light armor, magic regen, and using staves and not overpowered.

The issues with the game are more significant than the idiotic posts by sub tier players like yourself. Rather the game is missing an overall class balance framework that is known by the player base. People take bits and pieces of a situation they do not understand and make absurd class suggestions due to ignorance and the fact they have no stake in the impact of these suggestions because they play a difference class.

What will happen is players not min/max or using different overpowered set ups will be nerfed and unable to complete basic content without saying a word and just leave the game.

Therium104 · June 2014

Sigh.......

Therium104 · June 2014

Sorry. Double post. See above.

Adramelach · June 2014

Therium104 wrote: »

What will happen is players not min/max or using different overpowered set ups will be nerfed and unable to complete basic content without saying a word and just leave the game.

Exactly. If you take the absolute, most-optimized, most-tweaked, optimal build and nerf that down to 'survivable', then anything lesser will drop down to "suicide" and you've turned it into a "use this build or die" game, and whatever shredded vestige of "play as you like" that might have remained is utterly removed.

Therium104 · June 2014

Adramelach wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

What will happen is players not min/max or using different overpowered set ups will be nerfed and unable to complete basic content without saying a word and just leave the game.

Exactly. If you take the absolute, most-optimized, most-tweaked, optimal build and nerf that down to 'survivable', then anything lesser will drop down to "suicide" and you've turned it into a "use this build or die" game, and whatever shredded vestige of "play as you like" that might have remained is utterly removed.

The lack of tools available to players with a breakdown of abilities and damage is appalling. I love pvp and tend to choose melee classes. A common tactic is have a dedicated range dps assist the melee players target. The problem is this creates a mass of ignorant player forum trolls who think all the damage is from the melee player because that is who is in front of them. Post after post of ignorant rants.

In many ways that is what we have on these forums but it is worse. A combination of ignorance and lack of ability. ESO is very complex with classes that do not fit the atypical role using abikities that overlap between classes. Take this environment and interject a mob of low tier players who want to feel awesome because they are so good (but really horrible) causes issues. The problem is they suck. They are garbage but do not know it. So they whine...... and whine....... Until the devs nerf piecemeal and cause huge problems.

Players want to be the dragon born or that dude in the game trailer who owned everyone. Then reality sets in because they are not the only ones paying for the game and they died. There is no novice difficulty in a MMO. The root cause must be class imbalance.......

Hence, you have the current ESO forum community. Lol.

Kyuumu · June 2014

I have not read through every comment in this thread but some of the ones I have read are ridiculous. I don't understand why anyone who is playing ESO would have a problem with someone else soloing PVE content.
The ONLY reason I can imagine anyone caring about the damage and survivability of a class they are not playing is PVP. To that I say experiment with your class until you find one that makes you happy instead of whining and demanding nerf's on other classes. STOP hating and whining people!
I often see others in game who can destroy enemies where as I have to struggle and I am jealous but I am not gonna promote a nerf on their class, I just start researching and experimenting how to optimize my characters abilities.The only thing I am gonna say to someone who can solo Craglorn is "Can I go with you?"

What you people have to understand is not everyone wants the same things in their gameplay. I personally have a slightly stressful life so I play to have fun and enjoy the beautiful world of Tamriel. I do not want to feel frustrated by a game I pay to play. I do understand that some gamers LOVE the challenge, to you I say "make it harder on yourself (go play with your Toon naked or something) and leave the rest of us alone".
I would never tell someone who plays this game that they should have to deal with the game being to easy for them and I don't think anyone should try to force the opposite on me.

IceDread · June 2014

While DK no doubt is very powerful, I believe a wizzard with 50% crit rate + hp gain on crit is the most powerful build today.

IceDread · June 2014

thorspark wrote: »

Well, for playing a DK, a NB, and a Sorc, here's my thoughts on the subject.
In these videos, there is a combination of many things that allow him to stay alive, and beeing a DK is the main part of it.

Yes, Magma Armor is the main reason why he doesn't die. First of all for the 3% cap of life on hit for 15 seconds, and also because of the DK passive Battle Roar that replenish his Magicka, Health and Stamina a lot each times he uses the Ult. Look at his bars on the video when he uses the armor and you'll know what I'm talking about.

Other DK skills can be useful (Inhale, Talons, Flame of Oblivion, Cinder Burst) but only combined with destro/resto staff abilities.

Destro staff's Elemental Drain and Resto staff's Siphon Spirit is a good way to keep life and magicka up while using impulse and/or Flames of Oblivion/ Cinder Burst).

I heard that Elemental Drain is no longer giving back mana on dot ticks, but since a spell like Flames of Oblivion is not a dot, is keeps working. For example, with Elemental Drain up on one mob, you can consider that Flames of Oblivion is free, giving you some dps, and the crit boost.

If you don't want a nerf on destro/resto staff and you don't want all DKs complaining about a nerf of their class, there is a simple way of doing so, letting DK staying OP for most content but preventing them from doing group content alone.

Make the magma armor cost 400 ult instead of 200, preventing DK's from using it every 20 sec.
Nerf the Battle Roar passive so that it does not give back as much mana/health/stamina (I would say somerthing like 40% less)

Two "easy to change" things for developpers that would make a big difference.

I play DK, and I, too, think that the game is far too easy with it compared to my Vet NB.

Now as a NB, I would find it fair, if destro/resto staff are gonna stay the same that all stamina based weapons had a boost, if not in damage, at least in cost reduction.
When I see the damage of whirlwhind compared to those of Impulse, it just makes me cry.

Flames of oblivion is not used anymore and if you ever were using it, why?
You get no magica regen while using it, and it does ~35-50 damage / second. For a fight that will last for a bit of time, there is no point to it. For shorter fights it's not worth it ether as you need to wait more before moving on to the next group. It's a dk top tier ability and is mostly useless compared to other options like skills from destro/restro staff.

Of course you do not want to nerft the main problem, destro/restro staff because you've moved on to using and lvling those skills now.

Of course you want dk ultimate to not be used ever with your suggestion of a 400 ulti cost.

The balance here would instead be fixed if destro/ restro were nerfed to be on par with swords/ bow/ sword and shield.
If it were nerfed to that lvl, the damage output would be a lot lower.

You ignore the largest problem. As it stands today all classes can do what OP is doing if you max out magica and go restro/ destor staff.

Have you not seen the vids of all other classes doing the very same thing?

OP could if he wanted, do this with what ever class. Sure, the ultis makes it easier, but they are not needed.

DeLindsay · June 2014

IceDread wrote: »

You ignore the largest problem. As it stands today all classes can do what OP is doing if you max out magica and go restro/ destor staff.

Have you not seen the vids of all other classes doing the very same thing?

There are no other videos out of ANY Class besides a DK soloing TRIALS' trash. And no, there is NO other Class capable of this because they don't have Magma Armor. Even if a NB went in with Veil of Blades fully charged they would die in seconds because it only reduces incoming damage by 60%.

xMovingTarget · June 2014

So whatever, the trash drops like 20 gold. you only do that once for a lol and thats it. Nobody is able to Solo a complete trial other then the trashmobs. and who cares about that really.

Its all like "he is stronger than me" demanding nurffs. Sick and tired of it.

Kyuumu · June 2014

I saw a video of a V4 Sorc in heavy armor solo a Cralorn dungeon, I believe the boss's name was iron head. Not sure which solo dungeon that is but, It was awesome just like this video is awesome. Notice he was a...... Sorc, and NO I don't feel Sorc's should be nerfed because he accomplished that. I don't know if NB or Temp could be tweaked in such a way but I do know DK are not the only ones. I am so tired of people hating because they haven't figured out how to do something that someone else can. The only thing people do when they constantly complain about other classes is make the butthead's who say "you need to L2P" look like they have a valid point. This video and the one I mentioned earlier only says to me that this game is amazing and when you put your mind to it awesome things can be accomplished. I'm sorry but I don't want to be like all the other games, I like the fact that we can be unique which is why I think the nerf's should not only stop in PVE but be reversed, for all the classes. I am not one of those people who is going to talk smack about other classes because I fully intend on playing those classes. I mean really why would I call for a nerf on a class I am eventually gonna play myself? There is this amazing thing called FORETHOUGHT. Now unless someone is planning on only playing the one class they are playing now through out their sub, never trying any other, I suggest they use said forethought. The nerf you call for on another class today is the nerf you deal with yourself later on.

Therium104 · June 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

IceDread wrote: »

You ignore the largest problem. As it stands today all classes can do what OP is doing if you max out magica and go restro/ destor staff.

Have you not seen the vids of all other classes doing the very same thing?

There are no other videos out of ANY Class besides a DK soloing TRIALS' trash. And no, there is NO other Class capable of this because they don't have Magma Armor. Even if a NB went in with Veil of Blades fully charged they would die in seconds because it only reduces incoming damage by 60%.

My god man. What tunnel do you live in. You realize everything you wrote is nonsense.

DeLindsay · June 2014

Therium104 wrote: »

My god man. What tunnel do you live in. You realize everything you wrote is nonsense.

Then show us any video of any Class that isn't a DK soloing the trash in TRIALS. The comment was that EVERY Class can do exactly what that DK did, and my reply was NO Class can do what that specific DK did but a DK.

SexyVette07 · June 2014

Nerf DK's to the f-ing ground! Pisses me off that it takes a whole group of people to take down a DK in Cyrodiil...

But if you ask the DK's, they are perfectly balanced!

williams226 · June 2014

I thinks it is pretty amazing that someone can build a class to solo 12 man content... but in doing so it identifies the fact that certain builds are OP. That's where ZO need to balance abilities that are OP and make it so that group content is group content and not trivial content.

If something needs a nerf then it needs a nerf.

FegefeueR · June 2014

People still posting here because?

williams226 · June 2014

FegefeueR wrote: »

People still posting here because?

because, People still posting here !

poodlemasterb16_ESO · June 2014

I thought the point of high end play was to have the ultimate up a whole lot. I am building towards exactly that.

There are a lot of ways you can generate ultimate. Even my level 30 Vampire Witch can drop 'big sparky' a lot.

TheBull · June 2014

working as intended. L2PickClassesNoob

Hiply · June 2014

If this isn't enough to have the capability to create this powerful a build nerfed into the ground then nothing is.

Hiply · June 2014

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Why am I not surprised.....

But once again, its not COMPLETELY that its a DK, its the armor and weapon that are the biggest problem and ZoE's "resource of choice" that is the problem.

DK skills can be seen as way more well-round that other class skills, but he wouldnt be doing any of that with medium/heavy armor and any other weapon other than destro staff.

You won't see any other class than DK managing what he pulled off in that vid no matter what armor/weaps they are using. The synergies are too damned effective. It's the ability to create that synergistic effect in the toughest class in the game that needs to be nerfed into the ground, not staves and cloth.

When you show me a Templar doing that we can say it's not a class issue.

humpalicous · July 2014

Hmm, my gut tells me there is a bunch of non-dragon knights commenting here..

Don't get me wrong, the particular build in the solo run above is very overpowered. But the truth is that in most games, mmo or not, people will usually discover a certain style or build that reigns supreme. Why get tremendously upset when it happens to ESO?

I must admit I have a DK with a very similiar build (swear to god, I knew about it before the video!)and of course I feel good about it, who wouldn't? But the fact of the matter is that I would enjoy the game just as much if I was a templar or NB, because I enjoy the game as a whole! Stop caring about what other people do, what matters is your own build. You can still create a decent/good build, just hang in there!

If you want DK nerfed in some way then whatever. If you truly enjoy the game, you'll find another strategy once its nerfed, it'll only just test your skills and intelligence more. But hey while you are at ZOS, why don't you buff the other classes? Then the same thing will happen again, people complaining about unbalance or overpowerness, quitting and so on. Criticism and complaints will always find its way back, no matter how balanced or unbalanced a game is.

So bring on the hates now, I'm just saying that I would enjoy the game if I was the "weaker" class too.

KORJ · July 2014

I see the only way out.
Removing classes from the game.
Let everyone chooses the style of game they want.

Selection Any three section class abilities on character.

xMovingTarget · July 2014

KORJ wrote: »

I see the only way out.
Removing classes from the game.
Let everyone chooses the style of game they want.

Selection Any three section class abilities on character.

Image a character thats able the use everything thats available to the classes only atm.
Hell, we would be gods amongst men! Theres no way dropping classes would make it more balanced. In fact it would make it even more unbalanced if you will.

You could make ridicoulus builds with all the skill lines available (at the current state) to the players.
No thanks. just leave it like it is. The lifting of the class system would break the game. It would break it in PvE and even more in PvP.

SBR_QuorTek · July 2014

Why is people still necro posting in this one?