DK Solos Craglorn

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Zab101 wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Zab101 wrote: »

Cleary the answer is to nerf the destruction and restoration staff abilities and light armor passives so all non DK's are also affected. Buff Talons and Embers. Then to be sure this never happens again, nerf the other classes that aren't DK.

Nice sarcasm, but if you were paying attention youd notice that the 1 of his bars has only 3 DK skills, and the other only 2. NONE OF THEM are talons or embers so you might as well stop mentioning those.

Maybe you will also notice how he never runs out of MP. Magicka furnace light armor set is primary contributer to this. The Draw Essense morph of Inhale doesnt give you as much MP back as you lose casting the spell, and was already nerfed to hit only 3 targets for the life drain. Resto staff heals give back more than that for less MP use.

Maybe you will notice the wave of fire he keeps spamming. Thats impulse from destruction staff.

I'm sure you already know exactly whats going on and you use or close to use the exact same method and dont want your precious OP clone'd combo reduced a balance with other combos. Yes, nerfing the majority of the problem will nerf every class using the same combo, and other classes still need their own survivability buffs, but Light armor/destro staff is a plague on this game right now.

There is also a thread of those getting the fastest times in trials. Majority DK/Sorc, all light armor destro/resto staff, and one token templar for heals.

Nice faulty assumption, I don't use that "combo" and couldn't even come close to what is in that video. My sarcasm is frustration with how Zenimax will likely handle the situation with a blanket nerf that will still leave other classes that aren't DK continuing to underperform without addressing specific class issues.

A blanket nerf to light armor including the specific light armor set he is wearing is required.

They sure as hell aren't going to blanket buff Decreased stamina costs across the board by any realistic amount. They aren't going to make Dodge/block/CC break/sprint/bash tank MP ever. And it doesn't matter if they do, because it wont stop what is happening in the vid from happening, and it wont start happening with stamina builds, ever. There is a small factor of how any class - Any Class - can spam MAGICKA skills all day long as long as something is keeping them alive. his Dragon Knight skills just help him live longer, but its the light armor giving the reduced magicka costs and permeability Across the board. NOTHING - BUT - LIGHT ARMOR can reduce the cost of dragon knight skills by 21%. It does it for every one elses class skills, and vampire skills, and mages guild skills, and destruction staff skills, and resto staff skills. But why not put those points into the weapon and make it reduce the cost for THAT WEAPON like they do with 1h/shield, 2h and dual wield? Theres nothing that can reduce the cost of fighters guild, werewolf, and overall stamina skill stamina use by 20+% like light armor can do with everything magicka.

Point is. He loses the infinite magicka return, he dies like every one else trying crap like that.

I am not even saying other classes don't need love in the survival department. But its only because the set he is using allows his survival to be eternal. If they do not nerf the set he is using, he will keep being able to do it, and everyone will turn to light armor and the same set to do the same thing or close to it, and they already do.

Draconiuos

ShintaiDK wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

So, what I am hearing here is nerf an entire class based in its synergy with a specific armor/weapon combo? So, what about the non-light armor/non-staff using DKs that can't do anything close to that? Are they suppose to be forced into using that combo, because their whole class got balanced around it? I think ZOS is doing a better job than people want to admit by not doing that, because once they start eventually all classes will be balanced like that. Then might as well just slap generic MMO sticker on ESO and call it a day.

You have way too much confidence in Zenimax. Also shield bash as an example was nerfed into oblivion, on the base of stacked bashing glyphs.

Completely dodged the questions. Instead you decided to criticize the last part of my post. You have no proof the whole DK class is op, but that one particular build is op and if you read the forums it actually extends beyond just DKs. Show me proof or let someone with a really point speak.

ShintaiDK

Draconiuos wrote: »

You have way too much confidence in Zenimax. Also shield bash as an example was nerfed into oblivion, on the base of stacked bashing glyphs.

Completely dodged the questions. Instead you decided to criticize the last part of my post. You have no proof the whole DK class is op, but that one particular build is op and if you read the forums it actually extends beyond just DKs. Show me proof or let someone with a really point speak. [/quote]

So by pure accident all the top people are just sorcs and DKs?

Its already obvious what class you play.

Teevesnacks

hmmm no one seems to have mentioned anything about the DKs use of Magma Armor, which is pretty much the only way he could survive these kinds of encounters

but w/e, carry on...

Draconiuos

ShintaiDK wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

ShintaiDK wrote: »

You have way too much confidence in Zenimax. Also shield bash as an example was nerfed into oblivion, on the base of stacked bashing glyphs.

Completely dodged the questions. Instead you decided to criticize the last part of my post. You have no proof the whole DK class is op, but that one particular build is op and if you read the forums it actually extends beyond just DKs. Show me proof or let someone with a really point speak.

So by pure accident all the top people are just sorcs and DKs?

Its already obvious what class you play.

So, know Sorcs are op too? Why are you dodging the questions? Do you not have proof? Also, you have no idea which class I play. I play a Heavy Armor/Two Hander. I use no class skills and I am using straight two hand weapon skill line to clear VR content with no issue.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Magma armor isn't whats keeping his MP at full, letting him spam the abilities non-stop that is giving him the ultimate used to continuously use magma armor.

Point, magicka furnace + reduced magicka cost of everything + destro staff mainly how he lives through that fight. Take away the fact that his MP doesn't drop below the amount needed to cast a spell, ever, and imagine him still doing that even with magma armor. It only lasts 14 seconds.

so yes, carrying on.

hamon

Draconiuos wrote: »

Mud_Puppy wrote: »

We know the DK is overpowered, most can agree on this. HOWEVER judging from this video, I'm leaning more towards staves being the greater evil.

If DKs are so OP, show us a video of it when they aren't wearing light armor and using a staff. Every video we see showing DKs are op, the DK is wearing light armor and using a staff. I haven't seen one with medium armor or heavy armor, using something other than a staff.

but the problem is when a dk uses the light armour staff/staff it becomes utterly insanely overpowered.

where as a templar HAS to use light armour staff/staff to even be able to function at all

so if they go down the road of nerfing staffs and light. the same way they did by blanket nerfing bash... they just slightly inconvenience DK's while removing a whole play sytle from other classes.

Quaesivi

I love the hate on DK and Sorcs... I dare you to play my DK (roughly 100 points shy of stamina/hp softcaps with no magicka, in heavy armor, using bow/dw or tanking occasionally) and tell me that DKs are OP. Try, for even a second, playing a Stamina Based DK, then come and complain to me that DKs are OP, then I'd happily admit I'm doing it wrong. Only time I can do something is if I get to use the Standard, which, for me, hard to get because if I try to spam enough to get it, I end up with no resources. Nerfing DKs all-over will ruin the class forever, for players who are not abusing staves/light armor as well, however if you simply nerf the staves/light armor, or at least buff weapon skills/ medium & heavy armor, then we can talk about the class balances.

Draconiuos

hamon wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

Mud_Puppy wrote: »

We know the DK is overpowered, most can agree on this. HOWEVER judging from this video, I'm leaning more towards staves being the greater evil.

If DKs are so OP, show us a video of it when they aren't wearing light armor and using a staff. Every video we see showing DKs are op, the DK is wearing light armor and using a staff. I haven't seen one with medium armor or heavy armor, using something other than a staff.

but the problem is when a dk uses the light armour staff/staff it becomes utterly insanely overpowered.

where as a templar HAS to use light armour staff/staff to even be able to function at all

so if they go down the road of nerfing staffs and light. the same way they did by blanket nerfing bash... they just slightly inconvenience DK's while removing a whole play sytle from other classes.

So, maybe they need to look at how light armor and staffs work with the DK abilities. If you notice the only abilities they really even use from the DK class set are survivability ones. Most of the damage they are doing is coming from the fire Destruction staff which gets a boost from one skill line in the DK tree. Maybe they should change that passive to only effect DK abilities. The fact is everyone calling for "nerf Dks" isn't even bothering to figure out why it works so well for DK and no one else. They assume it is active skills when really it is much more complicated than just some active skills.

thorspark

Well, for playing a DK, a NB, and a Sorc, here's my thoughts on the subject.
In these videos, there is a combination of many things that allow him to stay alive, and beeing a DK is the main part of it.

Yes, Magma Armor is the main reason why he doesn't die. First of all for the 3% cap of life on hit for 15 seconds, and also because of the DK passive Battle Roar that replenish his Magicka, Health and Stamina a lot each times he uses the Ult. Look at his bars on the video when he uses the armor and you'll know what I'm talking about.

Other DK skills can be useful (Inhale, Talons, Flame of Oblivion, Cinder Burst) but only combined with destro/resto staff abilities.

Destro staff's Elemental Drain and Resto staff's Siphon Spirit is a good way to keep life and magicka up while using impulse and/or Flames of Oblivion/ Cinder Burst).

I heard that Elemental Drain is no longer giving back mana on dot ticks, but since a spell like Flames of Oblivion is not a dot, is keeps working. For example, with Elemental Drain up on one mob, you can consider that Flames of Oblivion is free, giving you some dps, and the crit boost.

If you don't want a nerf on destro/resto staff and you don't want all DKs complaining about a nerf of their class, there is a simple way of doing so, letting DK staying OP for most content but preventing them from doing group content alone.

Make the magma armor cost 400 ult instead of 200, preventing DK's from using it every 20 sec.
Nerf the Battle Roar passive so that it does not give back as much mana/health/stamina (I would say somerthing like 40% less)

Two "easy to change" things for developpers that would make a big difference.

I play DK, and I, too, think that the game is far too easy with it compared to my Vet NB.

Now as a NB, I would find it fair, if destro/resto staff are gonna stay the same that all stamina based weapons had a boost, if not in damage, at least in cost reduction.
When I see the damage of whirlwhind compared to those of Impulse, it just makes me cry.

Selstad

It is evident that it is the combination DK and certain weapons that gives them the OP status. Staves on their own is balanced as far as I've experienced (being a sorcerer and using both of them), but when combined with the passives and abilities that DKs have, it ranges up to a bit more OP.

I just find it very strange that Zenimax always seems to "stumble" in the dark when it comes to certain aspects of their game. It does indeed seem like their competence in making and running an MMO isn't as good as it should have been.

Fruity_Ninja

So DK is OP but most (all?)abilities mentioned aren't DK abilities?

Makes sense.

clocksstoppe

He didn't solo it all, just the trash mobs. He wont ever beat the boss, and also you need 12 people to use the teleport pads


[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Oh btw, the max 21% magica cost reduction from light armor effects ultimate costs

thorspark

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Oh btw, the max 21% magica cost reduction from light armor effects ultimate costs

No it doesn't, have the numbers right in front of me, no reduction of ult cost with light armor

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Oh ok. For some reason Twilight seducer 3% spell cost reduction counts towards ultimate cost reduction so i figured other spell cost reductions did the same.

/bug

Selstad

The combination of DKs passives along with a couple of staff abilities makes them a very lethal combination. The magica return is insane compared to other classes, that is 70% of ultima cost back as magica, 18% damage dealt back as magica and force siphon with 1% mana back when attacking target.

The combination of passives and active abilities is in my opinion what unbalances the DKs and is something that needs to be addressed.

thorspark

Selstad wrote: »

18% damage dealt back as magica

Where do you get those 18% ?

Ninnghizhidda

And another little comment from me. It is very sad to see where this game is heading to already, despite great expectations about "freedom" of choice and playstyles and skills and classes and and and ...

It is already pretty clear that stamina-based builds / classes and also physical / melee types are just a farce.

If they are viable at all, at best are like 10 times weaker than most builds purely based on magicka. This is already a great "unbalance" or if you want, bad design, or even "bias" against one part of the spectrum of classes / builds.

It might still perfectly OK to play, level, function using a "weak" class / build (though I doubt it), but it doesn't change the fact that certain other choices have it a lot easier.

It is very disappointing, and reminds me of another MMO I used to play for over 4 years, which started with great expectations (although it was obviously a much smaller project and nowhere near the grand scale of ESO) and ended up totally unbalanced in favour of magic / caster classes, to the point that said classes would just trample everything in their way having ultra high health / survivability, armour / defense, and of course obliterating damage capabilities.

I do hope, this awesome game will not totally turn into this, will not "force" everyone to follow a very narrow path and virtually eliminate most choices of class / builds in favour of a chosen few that are vastly superior.

Selstad

thorspark wrote: »

Where do you get those 18% ?

Draw Essence, morphed from inhale.

Tanabe

make it so siphon spirit on trigger on light/heavy attacks.

thorspark

Selstad wrote: »

Draw Essence, morphed from inhale.

K, this one is 20% (when level 4) but is only a refund from damage done with it, not for overall damage (impulse, cinder burst, flames of oblivion)

thorspark

Ninnghizhidda wrote: »

I do hope, this awesome game will not totally turn into this, will not "force" everyone to follow a very narrow path and virtually eliminate most choices of class / builds in favour of a chosen few that are vastly superior.

I totally agree with you. In VR content, the difference between stamina based characters and magicka based ones is just insane. Tried the DK on two handed sword/medium armor, really not worth the trouble. And I don't speak of my dual daggers nightblade which is a joke

Xsorus

Siphon Spirit is whats overpowered and broken...the same way Destruction Staff with its magicka return was as well.

Asking for nerfs to things like magma armor and battle roar because herp a derps don't understand how he's doing it is silly.

Fix it so Siphon Spirit doesn't proc off silly attacks like Cinder and inferno and you fix the problem.

Hiddenbunny

davidetombab16_ESO wrote: »

this is proof that the ZeniMax are incompetent

I think that was already established when the "polished launch experience" took place last month.

Hiddenbunny

Selstad wrote: »

I just find it very strange that Zenimax always seems to "stumble" in the dark when it comes to certain aspects of their game. It does indeed seem like their competence in making and running an MMO isn't as good as it should have been.

Mean while, in the lawyer office nearby, the competence in suing previous employee on VR software is running very high, except they can't figure out exactly what their past employee "stole".

Kypho

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO wrote: »

Look at his health, it's not even [snip]moving, this is bullcrap, I wasted so much time getting my Templar to vr 3 and die on world trash mobs.

I also have alts and something isn't right with the Templar, I have such a easy time killing mobs with my DK, I even soloed Dung Bosses at lower levels, I remember playing my Templar though those levels and it was ruff.

You guys made a great game but really lack in the balance department, I feel that your team that is in charge of the games balance needs to be replaced and you need to hire someone that knows how to balance classes.

We have been telling you what the problem is and you seem to think you know whats best, I hate to break it to you but most of us have been MMO players for over a decade and yes we do know more then your team when it comes to balance, the proof is in the video above.

I will tell you what is wrong with the DK and what makes them overpowered, it's the damage over time, reason is in a twitch type game were you need to have a target in sight to do damage having a class that is heavy damage over time nullifies the twitch game play that all other classes have to go through.

The DK's damage over time is static damage and takes the brain out of playing a game such as this, example with my Templar I have to stay glued on my target to do damage and also have to keep active in my button pressing to do damage, on the other hand we have a DK were all they have to do is apply it once and walk away letting the damage over time to kill the target allowing the DK to react in a defensive manner until the damage over time needs to be reapplied, on every other class we cant do that we have to open our selves up to attacks to do damage taking away from out defensive stances.

You what to know how I play my DK, I'll tell ya, I run into a group of 5 mobs, drop Burning Talons followed by a Burning Embers on a few enemies and wait for my heal all while I hold down my block in till all the enemies die, the messes up thing is even with a heavy stamina build my damage over time ticks as hard as my weapon attacks, so pretty much my burns are passive left mouse clicks that auto attacks my enemy non stop at any range without me having to even keep my enemy within my cross hairs unlike every other class in the game.

This is the last month your getting out of me unless I see buffs coming in the way of all none DK classes.

Umm wrong with Templar ehh???? No dude. Templar is fine. DK is not....


[Moderator Note: Edited moderated quote]

Kypho

ShintaiDK wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

So, what I am hearing here is nerf an entire class based in its synergy with a specific armor/weapon combo? So, what about the non-light armor/non-staff using DKs that can't do anything close to that? Are they suppose to be forced into using that combo, because their whole class got balanced around it? I think ZOS is doing a better job than people want to admit by not doing that, because once they start eventually all classes will be balanced like that. Then might as well just slap generic MMO sticker on ESO and call it a day.

You have way too much confidence in Zenimax. Also shield bash as an example was nerfed into oblivion, on the base of stacked bashing glyphs.

Bash was not nerfed, it was fixed. it did more damage in short time than any other ***, and its not meant to be a decent damage attack. Stop this BS about nerfing bash. Bash was broken like hell.

kewl

There is only one solution to this problem, nerf Templars.

dafraorb16_ESO

hey ZOS Nightblades and Templars are still able to kill a mob one at a time, nerf plox