The Hypothetical "WereWolf" update- The science behind the hide.

PurpleFox · June 2014

Let me start off by saying that this post is intended as
"ZoS's" Go-to guide for werewolf information, ideas, as well as needs from the community. It will include things such as, poll-results, names, and previous threads. It is a purely scientific thread, not with the intention to point out what is wrong with the beloved wolf, but rather, what course of action ZoS should take when it comes time for a massive overhaul. Should it be toggle/non-toggle, Tanky/Sneaky etc...

I have read almost every werewolf thread out there, followed quite a few as well. There are three types of suggestions from people of different play style's that come up a lot in the forums, so I have deduced that each "Type" of player wants to appeal to their own needs. "Being selfish to me, means that you have to look out for yourself and you don't have to sacrifice." -Herbie Mann

Lets start with a little connection to your fans, what types of players are you appealing too? What does each "Group" expect or want? Below there are three types of "werewolf players".

PvP Werewolves
PvP werewolves would generally like the Werewolf skill lines to be a tanky, tactical, and have OP as F*** attack. They would like to keep the WW timer, but have it mean something in battle, say for example the timer is 40 secs right now, most "PvP" wolves would like to be able to crush anyone or anything in their path, with little to no worry at all, and who can blame them? Those with the "Gift" are suppose to be mindless beasts of pure destruction, imagine transforming and having the enemy team run in fear, as it is their only option against you. Run or Die.

PvE Werewolves
I myself fall into this category, as I mostly play a PvE play-style, traveling from one public dungeon to the next doing many quests along the way, never quite finding a way to incorporate WW into little more than a "Few Second" fun time, I love the thing to death, but it's such a pain to use in its current state, and with my DPS lowered to a point of barely any damage every time I go wolf, there is no use. We PvE werewolves I have found all have the same problem, we love it, but can't use it. I have also noticed that the majority of people who suggest ideas for improvement, fall into this category as well, often suggesting new powers, buffs, and among other things, the Toggle Power.

Role-play Werewolves
Which leads me into my next group, the roleplay community. The roleplay community generally wants more bug fixes than buffs, though, the wolf could do with both to be honest. And often-times the roleplay and PvE community are one in the same. I have observed that the RPer's always seem to want the same thing, The "Toggle" power. Hell, I ran a poll asking the community if they thought that a "Toggle" transformation was the best option (Found here) and the overwhelming response was a "Yes"

So, to summarize, there are three different contradicting opinions, but only one of which you can use. (I suppose you can combine stuff, but lets not ruin the categorization...yet)

PvP Wolves- Keep the timer, Massive, overpowering buffs (No Toggle)
PvE Wolves- New Powers and Attacks, Medium Buffs (Sometimes Toggle)
RP Wolves- Toggle, Massive overhaul.

What side to pick?
Ultimately, it is not up to me to decide our fate as children of the hunt. However, I can recommend the best paths to choose, hopefully.

Keep Timer, Massive buffs
While this may be the perfect example for a "Beastly Rage" that allows you to slaughter your foes with ease, I am concerned with one thing Balance. Though I agree, it would be fun to run around in Cyrodiil, encounter a group of 5-6 people then go wolf, slaughtering them like lambs, barely taking and damage what so ever, I'm not sure how this could be balanced so that we don't end up like the vampire scum, destroying the battlefield by ourselves, then hated by the rest of the community. This, in the community is seen as the least favorable course of action.

New Powers and Attacks, Medium Buffs
New powers would be an amazing addition, in fact, it should be standard in the overhaul. Here are just a fraction of the types of powers the community can provide, it's all there, you just have to look.

Give us a CC break.
I'm not sure why we were never give any - perhaps people thought we would be too overwhelmingly powerful with one, but that is clearly not the case. Again, in a game where CC is king this is just a bad design flaw. At the very least allow us a passive that gives us a percentage (pertaining to how many times its bought into) that causes CC attempts to fail on us.

EDIT: Not only should we have a percentage chance to cause their CC to fail, but also send a back firing effect making them fall into a state of fear for 2 seconds, thus stopping them from spamming.

@ScardyFox

Takedown - Pins target and immobilizes them for two seconds dealing moderate damage.
Rend - Snares target for 5 seconds afterwards.
From the Shadows - Deals higher damage from stealth

@Arionic

Hercines howl- Summon 2 Wolves to fight (Wolf's Level with the player's level)
Mighty Howl- Summons 2 Werewolves to fight, however it cannot be used withing a curtain radius other players (To prevent everyone from spamming it and tripling the numbers)
Call of the Hunt- Spawns 4 wolves to fight

-Me

Though it still doesn't doesn't fix the underlying problem of time, when transformed you don't get time to stop and enjoy the hunt, as you should, but rather the player is forced to rush around, fighting the clock constantly. Which brings us to our final topic...

Toggle-able Ultimate
So here it is, the big cheese, the numero uno, the biggest debate in the history of Tamriel!
Should werewolves...have a toggle ultimate?
What did I do? I ran a poll! And wouldn't you know it? The majority of the community voted "Yes, It should be a toggle"
However... here's where the dispute lies, not in the toggle of itself. But how balanced such a feature would be.

Would it be too powerful if the three most requested features were combined?
Would it still be too weak?
How many people would you appeal too?

WhitePawPrints · June 2014

"Massive Buffs" should never be that powerful. I'd agree, it'd be just as annoying as the Vampires. It's all tweaking of the numbers of damage, speed, health, armor, resistance, etc. I hardly ever suggest numbers because those cannot be determined without testing.

In the other threads, when I suggests overpowered buffs in favor of toggle is buffs that will favor packs of werewolves. Not individual werewolves. In my thread, I lightly touched up on this subject by saying:

Especially the Pack Leader; maybe seeing a white werewolf that is obviously an Alpha would be more terrifying than seeing a lone werewolf transform to defend itself.

To elaborate, lone werewolves should be vulnerable as if its a desperate attempt to defend themselves that will likely fail. (I was also implying that Pack Leaders should be feared more when transformed but that's another topic.)

Considering the passives already affecting other werewolves when grouped together, I expanded on this idea to make packs of werewolves stronger. These suggestions to increase pack strength would be the only "Massive Buffs" I would accept. That would be because the counter-balance measures will already be in place with the timer. Crowd Control abilities can help negate the benefits of the transformation, and Werewolves are useless against keep walls. Open fields they would be powerful, but if the Ultimate cost remains high then the logistics of coordinating such an attack would be fairly difficult.

Currently standing, Dark Knight's "Talons" ability would be a very affective counter against a pack in open field. Vampire Ultimate Bat Swarms would still make Vampires a threat in open Fields. Nightblade Invisibility ability can would still be able to sneak away. Mages Bolt Escape would still outrun werewolves.

Toggle, I would still like to see it as a Morph choice. With all your suggestions, why not have all three through Morph choices? That's assuming additional morph choices will be added as a second tier in the future.

P.S.
For Hercine's sake bring back the four limb run from Skyrim.

And I second this! Plus, make Beserkers black werewolves. The models are already in the game so it's an easy change.

ScardyFox · June 2014

I would like you to add a small detail my entry. Not only should we have a percentage chance to cause their CC to fail, but also send a back firing effect making them fall into a state of fear for 2 seconds, thus stopping them from spamming.

This would be an interesting and unique aspect to werewolves. The fear would be generated by such a savage beast shrugging off their ability like nothing happened. I would actually prefer this over a CC break I think.

Jade_Knightblazerb14_ESO · June 2014

Please don't burn me (thou poison would do more harm) for this but...

At this point I have given up on Werewolfs being stronger in their form compared to the human form... Seems to me ZOS doesn't know the correct direction of doing this...

I would simply be happy if Werewolf was a pure cosmetic at this point. I played a Worgen in World of Warcraft and Enjoyed the settle (turn into Worgen form while in combat, then use the toggle ability to turn back into Human).

***ATM Werewolf has Nothing but RP value along with a debuff to your character to take extra poison damage.

Brittany_Joy · June 2014

Seemed so insightful 'till the dreaded error on the bottom of your post which is "Hercine" Seriously? You don't know the lore behind werewolves!

whatsername908 · June 2014

I've also read and enjoyed most of the ideas offered on the forums and I'd like to add mine. I'm in favor of a complete overhaul, but not a toggle. I'll try to keep it brief.

Abilities:

Active Ability 1: Cone AoE that deals damage to enemies in front of you.
- Morph 1: Adds % chance for critical hit on affected enemies.
- Morph 2: Increases player's armor-rating for several seconds equivalent to damage done
Active Ability 2: Single-target, two-second knockdown maul.
- Morph 1: Recover % health from mauled enemy.
- Morph 2: Blood Loss - Affected enemy is disoriented for several seconds with a % chance to miss on next attack.
Active Ability 3: Keep roar. Make it instant-cast.
Get rid of Savage Strength and buff Pursuit.

Mechanics:

Bump up heavy attack damage
Increase reach. Werewolves have such long arms but still have to stand ON an enemy to hit them
Keep ultimate cost around 600 and cap cost-reduction at 25% (meaning cost should never drop below 75%, or 450 Ultimate)
Players can shift at-will at the werewolf shrine in order to bite if their ultimate is not ready, but shift immediately back when they leave the vicinity or after biting. Kills made here do not count towards ww leveling. Players that used their ultimate for their bite work as normal and are not forced back into human form after bite.
Allow applicable passives to work in human form, as long as weakness is also active.
Increase stamina regeneration drastically while in werewolf form.
Remove cooldown on Devour
Increase timer to 60 seconds upon transformation.
Raise timer cap to a max of 3 full minutes reached through Devour. Stamina regeneration decreases by 12.5% every 15 seconds spent in ww form. After 2 minutes, stamina regen should be 0 ("Exhausted" debuff?). Players can still devour and increase timer, but should opt to change back to remove debuff. This way, players can remain werewolves as long as they like but at the cost of losing sprinting, active abilities, heavy attacks, and blocking once their stamina runs out. "Exhausted" werewolves would be very vulnerable and packs would obviously have a much better chance of survival.

Cosmetic:

Four-legged sprint
Do away with goofy-looking giant paws!
Different fur colors (black, brown, grey or tan, and rusty reddish) selected based on character's hair-color. White fur reserved for pack-leader morph.

It's not perfect, it probably needs plenty more balancing, and the numbers are not totally solid, but I feel like this would satisfy a majority of players. It's not a toggle, but it has no real time-limit. Power tapers off the longer you play in werewolf form, so players can choose to be a super-powerful werewolf for 30 seconds and intentionally shift back before it starts wearing off, or players can extend the transformation for as long as they please at the cost of being much more vulnerable.

PurpleFox · June 2014

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Seemed so insightful 'till the dreaded error on the bottom of your post which is "Hercine" Seriously? You don't know the lore behind werewolves!

@Brittany_Joy

So I misspelled it? "Hircine" In case you hadn't noticed this was published in the middle of the night, no need to be rude

I was tired

ScardyFox · June 2014

PurpleFox wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Seemed so insightful 'till the dreaded error on the bottom of your post which is "Hercine" Seriously? You don't know the lore behind werewolves!

@Brittany_Joy

So I misspelled it? "Hircine" In case you hadn't noticed this was published in the middle of the night, no need to be rude
I was tired

PurpleFox · June 2014

ScardyFox wrote: »

PurpleFox wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Seemed so insightful 'till the dreaded error on the bottom of your post which is "Hercine" Seriously? You don't know the lore behind werewolves!

@Brittany_Joy

So I misspelled it? "Hircine" In case you hadn't noticed this was published in the middle of the night, no need to be rude
I was tired

That made me lol, thanks XD

Oronell · June 2014

Anyone else notice that references to Hircine are all over the place in this game, second only to Molag Bal?

PurpleFox · June 2014

Oronell wrote: »

Anyone else notice that references to Hircine are all over the place in this game, second only to Molag Bal?

Yup. I wish Sheo was more prominent, I enjoy his humor, he seems like the kind of guy you would want at a party XD
Fav Daedric Gods:

Hercine (That's how you pronounce it, so don't give me any lip about my spelling, this is deliberate this time XD)
Sheogoraph
Merida
Nocturnal
Boethia (Anyone remember Eltonbrand? That was an amazing sword)

Brittany_Joy · June 2014

PurpleFox wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Seemed so insightful 'till the dreaded error on the bottom of your post which is "Hercine" Seriously? You don't know the lore behind werewolves!

@Brittany_Joy

So I misspelled it? "Hircine" In case you hadn't noticed this was published in the middle of the night, no need to be rude
I was tired

PurpleFox wrote: »

Oronell wrote: »

Anyone else notice that references to Hircine are all over the place in this game, second only to Molag Bal?

Yup. I wish Sheo was more prominent, I enjoy his humor, he seems like the kind of guy you would want at a party XD
Fav Daedric Gods:
Hercine (That's how you pronounce it, so don't give me any lip about my spelling, this is deliberate this time XD)

Sheogoraph

Merida

Nocturnal

Boethia (Anyone remember Eltonbrand? That was an amazing sword)

Hircine*

WhitePawPrints · June 2014

This "go-to guide" for Zenimax for information on Werewolves had clearly went way off topic. In addition to the "ninja edit" the original poster made after my response, I consider this has negated any legitimate discussion on this thread.

I pointed out the inaccuracies in your exaggerations on the oppositions' stance, so you removed those inaccuracies and added different exaggerations. Claiming that the majority of those that "suggest ideas for improvement" fall under your category that supports toggle is not just an exaggeration, but a heavily biased exaggeration.

To discuss ideas for additional abilities is a separate issue, not related to toggle. Toggle is an issue in its own because it would directly affect any additional abilities, and that is where I've made my argument. Speak of which, I must completely disagree with your implication that the lack of additional werewolf ability suggestions is due to the lack of ideas for improvement.

I have read the discussions surrounding the Werewolf Toggle suggestions. In my discussions, I have created several different possibilities to make a toggle function for Werewolves a possibility without affecting balance. I will always oppose the short-sighted solution of having toggle across-the-board.

If suggesting additional abilities, or ability changes to the werewolf life, is the only way to make an argument legit to you, then allow me:

Pounce - Rename as "Rush" or "Tackle". Given the same affect as Pounce, this ability will close distance by having the Werewolf (four-legged) sprint and tackle, or "pounce" the enemy causing them to be knocked down.
(Morph Choice) Maul - Werewolf swings repeatedly while opponent is knocked down, dealing X damage each hit for six hits. The sixth hit deals 2X damage.
(Morph Choice) Feast - (Cooldown 1 second) Werewolf bites downed opponent, dealing X damage and recovering Y% of X damage into health.

Roar - Rename "Howl". Ability causes casting time to be active, but causes greater fear-affect duration.
(Morph Choice) Rally - Howl adds Z second to Werewolf timers for every Y second Howl is active. Howl only affects Werewolves within X distance of active ability.
(Morph Choice) Roar - Increase duration of fear-affect, and distance of Howl.

Werewolf Vigor - Active Ability - Werewolf becomes immune to Crowd Control abilities for X seconds. (Animation is the Shield icon that NPC's Werewolves have.)
(Morph Choice) Ravenous - Affect remains active during channeling abilities such as Howl or cooldowns such as Feast.
(Morph Choice) Strength - Werewolf gains X boost to Armor and Spell Resistance.

Ravage - Active Ability - Werewolf bites opponent dealing X Damage.
(Morph Choice) Hunger - Ravage now grants life leech of Y health.
(Morph Choice) Fury - If opponent is below X% Health, Werewolf will continue to attack dealing Y damage until opponent is killed, or Crowd Control affect is broken.

Ancestral Rage - Active Ability - Summon the spirit of a fallen werewolf (or regular wolf) to fight beside you for X seconds.
(Morph Choice) Soul Renewal - Summoned Spirit can now take damage. Increase damage to X amount, and remove timer.
(Morph Choice) Summon Y spirits to fight for X seconds.

Hircine's Blessing - Passive - Reduce Cost of Werewolf Tranformation by X%.
(Second Tier) Reduce by Y%.
(Third Tier) Reduce by Z%

Pack Member - Passive - (Beserkers) When active Pack Leader is nearby, gain X% life leech on all attacks. (Pack Leader) When Beserker is nearby, gain Y% Armor and Spell Resistance.
(Second Tier) Increase X and Y percentages.

Monster's Hide - Passive - Increase base Health by X.
(Second Tier) Increase Health by Y.

Bloodlust - Passive - After each successful Devour, gain X% armor and spell resistance. Stacks up to Z times.
(Second Tier) Increase Y% after each successful Devour.

Shadow - Werewolves can now sneak. Sneak radius on werewolf is increased (they're easier to detect).
(Second Tier) Werewolves don't suffer speed penalty while sneaking.

The Hunt - Passive - While werewolves are (four-legged) sprinting, they can activate Pounce to take down their prey.
(Second Tier) - Werewolves sprint speed is increased by X%.

Elongated Claws - Passive - Werewolves deal X% damage to all enemies nearby.
(Second Tier) Increase X%.

I created all these ideas off the top of my head. I can come up with dozens and dozens of suggestions for additional or changed Werewolf abilities. However, I am sure most people can see that many of these can cause some balance concerns, which is why I don't suggest ability changes or additions. Each new ability would require testing to see if it'd work as is, or if counters would have to be put in place. Right now, suggesting additional abilities is nothing more than speculating on what would be a good fit or not.

For the record, I consider myself a Roleplayer type of player. A good fifty percent of all my gameplay is roleplaying with others. I have one character, in which in my mind I have created an extensive story. I use emotes frequently, I help lower level players frequently.

I am a Roleplayer ES fan, I have suggested "ideas for improvments." I am OPPOSED to the toggle suggestion.

This is not a "go-to guide" for anyone. Spam negated the legitimacy of the thread, the "ninja edit" and biased statements negated the legitimacy of the discussion.

PurpleFox · June 2014

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

This "go-to guide" for Zenimax for information on Werewolves had clearly went way off topic. In addition to the "ninja edit" the original poster made after my response, I consider this has negated any legitimate discussion on this thread.

I pointed out the inaccuracies in your exaggerations on the oppositions' stance, so you removed those inaccuracies and added different exaggerations. Claiming that the majority of those that "suggest ideas for improvement" fall under your category that supports toggle is not just an exaggeration, but a heavily biased exaggeration.

To discuss ideas for additional abilities is a separate issue, not related to toggle. Toggle is an issue in its own because it would directly affect any additional abilities, and that is where I've made my argument. Speak of which, I must completely disagree with your implication that the lack of additional werewolf ability suggestions is due to the lack of ideas for improvement.

I have read the discussions surrounding the Werewolf Toggle suggestions. In my discussions, I have created several different possibilities to make a toggle function for Werewolves a possibility without affecting balance. I will always oppose the short-sighted solution of having toggle across-the-board.

If suggesting additional abilities, or ability changes to the werewolf life, is the only way to make an argument legit to you, then allow me:
Pounce - Rename as "Rush" or "Tackle". Given the same affect as Pounce, this ability will close distance by having the Werewolf (four-legged) sprint and tackle, or "pounce" the enemy causing them to be knocked down.
(Morph Choice) Maul - Werewolf swings repeatedly while opponent is knocked down, dealing X damage each hit for six hits. The sixth hit deals 2X damage.
(Morph Choice) Feast - (Cooldown 1 second) Werewolf bites downed opponent, dealing X damage and recovering Y% of X damage into health.

Roar - Rename "Howl". Ability causes casting time to be active, but causes greater fear-affect duration.
(Morph Choice) Rally - Howl adds Z second to Werewolf timers for every Y second Howl is active. Howl only affects Werewolves within X distance of active ability.
(Morph Choice) Roar - Increase duration of fear-affect, and distance of Howl.

Werewolf Vigor - Active Ability - Werewolf becomes immune to Crowd Control abilities for X seconds. (Animation is the Shield icon that NPC's Werewolves have.)
(Morph Choice) Ravenous - Affect remains active during channeling abilities such as Howl or cooldowns such as Feast.
(Morph Choice) Strength - Werewolf gains X boost to Armor and Spell Resistance.

Ravage - Active Ability - Werewolf bites opponent dealing X Damage.
(Morph Choice) Hunger - Ravage now grants life leech of Y health.
(Morph Choice) Fury - If opponent is below X% Health, Werewolf will continue to attack dealing Y damage until opponent is killed, or Crowd Control affect is broken.

Ancestral Rage - Active Ability - Summon the spirit of a fallen werewolf (or regular wolf) to fight beside you for X seconds.
(Morph Choice) Soul Renewal - Summoned Spirit can now take damage. Increase damage to X amount, and remove timer.
(Morph Choice) Summon Y spirits to fight for X seconds.

Hircine's Blessing - Passive - Reduce Cost of Werewolf Tranformation by X%.
(Second Tier) Reduce by Y%.
(Third Tier) Reduce by Z%

Pack Member - Passive - (Beserkers) When active Pack Leader is nearby, gain X% life leech on all attacks. (Pack Leader) When Beserker is nearby, gain Y% Armor and Spell Resistance.
(Second Tier) Increase X and Y percentages.

Monster's Hide - Passive - Increase base Health by X.
(Second Tier) Increase Health by Y.

Bloodlust - Passive - After each successful Devour, gain X% armor and spell resistance. Stacks up to Z times.
(Second Tier) Increase Y% after each successful Devour.

Shadow - Werewolves can now sneak. Sneak radius on werewolf is increased (they're easier to detect).
(Second Tier) Werewolves don't suffer speed penalty while sneaking.

The Hunt - Passive - While werewolves are (four-legged) sprinting, they can activate Pounce to take down their prey.
(Second Tier) - Werewolves sprint speed is increased by X%.

Elongated Claws - Passive - Werewolves deal X% damage to all enemies nearby.
(Second Tier) Increase X%.

I created all these ideas off the top of my head. I can come up with dozens and dozens of suggestions for additional or changed Werewolf abilities. However, I am sure most people can see that many of these can cause some balance concerns, which is why I don't suggest ability changes or additions. Each new ability would require testing to see if it'd work as is, or if counters would have to be put in place. Right now, suggesting additional abilities is nothing more than speculating on what would be a good fit or not.

For the record, I consider myself a Roleplayer type of player. A good fifty percent of all my gameplay is roleplaying with others. I have one character, in which in my mind I have created an extensive story. I use emotes frequently, I help lower level players frequently.

I am a Roleplayer ES fan, I have suggested "ideas for improvments." I am OPPOSED to the toggle suggestion.

This is not a "go-to guide" for anyone. Spam negated the legitimacy of the thread, the "ninja edit" and biased statements negated the legitimacy of the discussion.

As for a "Ninja Edit" That was just a little addition suggested by ScardyFox, along with some grammar corrections.
I have been neglecting this post simply due to lack of interest in the game, in April my sub will be running out, and I likely will not renew it. Until ZoS can get the game fixed, they won't be having any more money from me. I have already made the preparations in my guild in who is to take over until I return. Consider this post along with some of my others dead.

Lyall84 · June 2014

whatsername908 wrote: »

I've also read and enjoyed most of the ideas offered on the forums and I'd like to add mine. I'm in favor of a complete overhaul, but not a toggle. I'll try to keep it brief.

Abilities:
Active Ability 1: Cone AoE that deals damage to enemies in front of you.
- Morph 1: Adds % chance for critical hit on affected enemies.
- Morph 2: Increases player's armor-rating for several seconds equivalent to damage done

Active Ability 2: Single-target, two-second knockdown maul.
- Morph 1: Recover % health from mauled enemy.
- Morph 2: Blood Loss - Affected enemy is disoriented for several seconds with a % chance to miss on next attack.

Active Ability 3: Keep roar. Make it instant-cast.

Get rid of Savage Strength and buff Pursuit.

Mechanics:
Bump up heavy attack damage

Increase reach. Werewolves have such long arms but still have to stand ON an enemy to hit them

Keep ultimate cost around 600 and cap cost-reduction at 25% (meaning cost should never drop below 75%, or 450 Ultimate)

Players can shift at-will at the werewolf shrine in order to bite if their ultimate is not ready, but shift immediately back when they leave the vicinity or after biting. Kills made here do not count towards ww leveling. Players that used their ultimate for their bite work as normal and are not forced back into human form after bite.

Allow applicable passives to work in human form, as long as weakness is also active.

Increase stamina regeneration drastically while in werewolf form.

Remove cooldown on Devour

Increase timer to 60 seconds upon transformation.

Raise timer cap to a max of 3 full minutes reached through Devour. Stamina regeneration decreases by 12.5% every 15 seconds spent in ww form. After 2 minutes, stamina regen should be 0 ("Exhausted" debuff?). Players can still devour and increase timer, but should opt to change back to remove debuff. This way, players can remain werewolves as long as they like but at the cost of losing sprinting, active abilities, heavy attacks, and blocking once their stamina runs out. "Exhausted" werewolves would be very vulnerable and packs would obviously have a much better chance of survival.

Cosmetic:
Four-legged sprint

Do away with goofy-looking giant paws!

Different fur colors (black, brown, grey or tan, and rusty reddish) selected based on character's hair-color. White fur reserved for pack-leader morph.

It's not perfect, it probably needs plenty more balancing, and the numbers are not totally solid, but I feel like this would satisfy a majority of players. It's not a toggle, but it has no real time-limit. Power tapers off the longer you play in werewolf form, so players can choose to be a super-powerful werewolf for 30 seconds and intentionally shift back before it starts wearing off, or players can extend the transformation for as long as they please at the cost of being much more vulnerable.

All this, but do not remove the leap from the action bar, but make the leap have a 1/2 second or near instant animation. The 2 second animation that exists now, sometimes the target is out of the AoE damage range by the time you land (PvP more than PvE, NPCs tend to stand still).

Lyall84 · June 2014

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

This "go-to guide" for Zenimax for information on Werewolves had clearly went way off topic. In addition to the "ninja edit" the original poster made after my response, I consider this has negated any legitimate discussion on this thread.

I pointed out the inaccuracies in your exaggerations on the oppositions' stance, so you removed those inaccuracies and added different exaggerations. Claiming that the majority of those that "suggest ideas for improvement" fall under your category that supports toggle is not just an exaggeration, but a heavily biased exaggeration.

To discuss ideas for additional abilities is a separate issue, not related to toggle. Toggle is an issue in its own because it would directly affect any additional abilities, and that is where I've made my argument. Speak of which, I must completely disagree with your implication that the lack of additional werewolf ability suggestions is due to the lack of ideas for improvement.

I have read the discussions surrounding the Werewolf Toggle suggestions. In my discussions, I have created several different possibilities to make a toggle function for Werewolves a possibility without affecting balance. I will always oppose the short-sighted solution of having toggle across-the-board.

If suggesting additional abilities, or ability changes to the werewolf life, is the only way to make an argument legit to you, then allow me:
Pounce - Rename as "Rush" or "Tackle". Given the same affect as Pounce, this ability will close distance by having the Werewolf (four-legged) sprint and tackle, or "pounce" the enemy causing them to be knocked down.
(Morph Choice) Maul - Werewolf swings repeatedly while opponent is knocked down, dealing X damage each hit for six hits. The sixth hit deals 2X damage.
(Morph Choice) Feast - (Cooldown 1 second) Werewolf bites downed opponent, dealing X damage and recovering Y% of X damage into health.

Roar - Rename "Howl". Ability causes casting time to be active, but causes greater fear-affect duration.
(Morph Choice) Rally - Howl adds Z second to Werewolf timers for every Y second Howl is active. Howl only affects Werewolves within X distance of active ability.
(Morph Choice) Roar - Increase duration of fear-affect, and distance of Howl.

Werewolf Vigor - Active Ability - Werewolf becomes immune to Crowd Control abilities for X seconds. (Animation is the Shield icon that NPC's Werewolves have.)
(Morph Choice) Ravenous - Affect remains active during channeling abilities such as Howl or cooldowns such as Feast.
(Morph Choice) Strength - Werewolf gains X boost to Armor and Spell Resistance.

Ravage - Active Ability - Werewolf bites opponent dealing X Damage.
(Morph Choice) Hunger - Ravage now grants life leech of Y health.
(Morph Choice) Fury - If opponent is below X% Health, Werewolf will continue to attack dealing Y damage until opponent is killed, or Crowd Control affect is broken.

Ancestral Rage - Active Ability - Summon the spirit of a fallen werewolf (or regular wolf) to fight beside you for X seconds.
(Morph Choice) Soul Renewal - Summoned Spirit can now take damage. Increase damage to X amount, and remove timer.
(Morph Choice) Summon Y spirits to fight for X seconds.

Hircine's Blessing - Passive - Reduce Cost of Werewolf Tranformation by X%.
(Second Tier) Reduce by Y%.
(Third Tier) Reduce by Z%

Pack Member - Passive - (Beserkers) When active Pack Leader is nearby, gain X% life leech on all attacks. (Pack Leader) When Beserker is nearby, gain Y% Armor and Spell Resistance.
(Second Tier) Increase X and Y percentages.

Monster's Hide - Passive - Increase base Health by X.
(Second Tier) Increase Health by Y.

Bloodlust - Passive - After each successful Devour, gain X% armor and spell resistance. Stacks up to Z times.
(Second Tier) Increase Y% after each successful Devour.

Shadow - Werewolves can now sneak. Sneak radius on werewolf is increased (they're easier to detect).
(Second Tier) Werewolves don't suffer speed penalty while sneaking.

The Hunt - Passive - While werewolves are (four-legged) sprinting, they can activate Pounce to take down their prey.
(Second Tier) - Werewolves sprint speed is increased by X%.

Elongated Claws - Passive - Werewolves deal X% damage to all enemies nearby.
(Second Tier) Increase X%.

I created all these ideas off the top of my head. I can come up with dozens and dozens of suggestions for additional or changed Werewolf abilities. However, I am sure most people can see that many of these can cause some balance concerns, which is why I don't suggest ability changes or additions. Each new ability would require testing to see if it'd work as is, or if counters would have to be put in place. Right now, suggesting additional abilities is nothing more than speculating on what would be a good fit or not.

For the record, I consider myself a Roleplayer type of player. A good fifty percent of all my gameplay is roleplaying with others. I have one character, in which in my mind I have created an extensive story. I use emotes frequently, I help lower level players frequently.

I am a Roleplayer ES fan, I have suggested "ideas for improvments." I am OPPOSED to the toggle suggestion.

This is not a "go-to guide" for anyone. Spam negated the legitimacy of the thread, the "ninja edit" and biased statements negated the legitimacy of the discussion.

Another great set of suggestions in your spoilers, but, with the elongated claws, instead of all enemies (that seems OP to me), make it so 2 additional enemies take 50% of damage done to original target. That way it makes WW some what AoE like without being able to decimate large groups in PvP.

WhitePawPrints · June 2014

Lyall84 wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

This "go-to guide" for Zenimax for information on Werewolves had clearly went way off topic. In addition to the "ninja edit" the original poster made after my response, I consider this has negated any legitimate discussion on this thread.

I pointed out the inaccuracies in your exaggerations on the oppositions' stance, so you removed those inaccuracies and added different exaggerations. Claiming that the majority of those that "suggest ideas for improvement" fall under your category that supports toggle is not just an exaggeration, but a heavily biased exaggeration.

To discuss ideas for additional abilities is a separate issue, not related to toggle. Toggle is an issue in its own because it would directly affect any additional abilities, and that is where I've made my argument. Speak of which, I must completely disagree with your implication that the lack of additional werewolf ability suggestions is due to the lack of ideas for improvement.

I have read the discussions surrounding the Werewolf Toggle suggestions. In my discussions, I have created several different possibilities to make a toggle function for Werewolves a possibility without affecting balance. I will always oppose the short-sighted solution of having toggle across-the-board.

If suggesting additional abilities, or ability changes to the werewolf life, is the only way to make an argument legit to you, then allow me:
Pounce - Rename as "Rush" or "Tackle". Given the same affect as Pounce, this ability will close distance by having the Werewolf (four-legged) sprint and tackle, or "pounce" the enemy causing them to be knocked down.
(Morph Choice) Maul - Werewolf swings repeatedly while opponent is knocked down, dealing X damage each hit for six hits. The sixth hit deals 2X damage.
(Morph Choice) Feast - (Cooldown 1 second) Werewolf bites downed opponent, dealing X damage and recovering Y% of X damage into health.

Roar - Rename "Howl". Ability causes casting time to be active, but causes greater fear-affect duration.
(Morph Choice) Rally - Howl adds Z second to Werewolf timers for every Y second Howl is active. Howl only affects Werewolves within X distance of active ability.
(Morph Choice) Roar - Increase duration of fear-affect, and distance of Howl.

Werewolf Vigor - Active Ability - Werewolf becomes immune to Crowd Control abilities for X seconds. (Animation is the Shield icon that NPC's Werewolves have.)
(Morph Choice) Ravenous - Affect remains active during channeling abilities such as Howl or cooldowns such as Feast.
(Morph Choice) Strength - Werewolf gains X boost to Armor and Spell Resistance.

Ravage - Active Ability - Werewolf bites opponent dealing X Damage.
(Morph Choice) Hunger - Ravage now grants life leech of Y health.
(Morph Choice) Fury - If opponent is below X% Health, Werewolf will continue to attack dealing Y damage until opponent is killed, or Crowd Control affect is broken.

Ancestral Rage - Active Ability - Summon the spirit of a fallen werewolf (or regular wolf) to fight beside you for X seconds.
(Morph Choice) Soul Renewal - Summoned Spirit can now take damage. Increase damage to X amount, and remove timer.
(Morph Choice) Summon Y spirits to fight for X seconds.

Hircine's Blessing - Passive - Reduce Cost of Werewolf Tranformation by X%.
(Second Tier) Reduce by Y%.
(Third Tier) Reduce by Z%

Pack Member - Passive - (Beserkers) When active Pack Leader is nearby, gain X% life leech on all attacks. (Pack Leader) When Beserker is nearby, gain Y% Armor and Spell Resistance.
(Second Tier) Increase X and Y percentages.

Monster's Hide - Passive - Increase base Health by X.
(Second Tier) Increase Health by Y.

Bloodlust - Passive - After each successful Devour, gain X% armor and spell resistance. Stacks up to Z times.
(Second Tier) Increase Y% after each successful Devour.

Shadow - Werewolves can now sneak. Sneak radius on werewolf is increased (they're easier to detect).
(Second Tier) Werewolves don't suffer speed penalty while sneaking.

The Hunt - Passive - While werewolves are (four-legged) sprinting, they can activate Pounce to take down their prey.
(Second Tier) - Werewolves sprint speed is increased by X%.

Elongated Claws - Passive - Werewolves deal X% damage to all enemies nearby.
(Second Tier) Increase X%.

I created all these ideas off the top of my head. I can come up with dozens and dozens of suggestions for additional or changed Werewolf abilities. However, I am sure most people can see that many of these can cause some balance concerns, which is why I don't suggest ability changes or additions. Each new ability would require testing to see if it'd work as is, or if counters would have to be put in place. Right now, suggesting additional abilities is nothing more than speculating on what would be a good fit or not.

For the record, I consider myself a Roleplayer type of player. A good fifty percent of all my gameplay is roleplaying with others. I have one character, in which in my mind I have created an extensive story. I use emotes frequently, I help lower level players frequently.

I am a Roleplayer ES fan, I have suggested "ideas for improvments." I am OPPOSED to the toggle suggestion.

This is not a "go-to guide" for anyone. Spam negated the legitimacy of the thread, the "ninja edit" and biased statements negated the legitimacy of the discussion.

Another great set of suggestions in your spoilers, but, with the elongated claws, instead of all enemies (that seems OP to me), make it so 2 additional enemies take 50% of damage done to original target. That way it makes WW some what AoE like without being able to decimate large groups in PvP.

Agreed. I wrote all this after coming up with them off the top of my head at 1AM so I was a bit tired XD That would work much better because my original target is to have Werewolf Packs to be very powerful. Having five or six werewolves capable of hitting just a few additional amount of enemies would still be very deadly without being overpowered.

Edit: And yes, I put those under spoilers so the page wouldn't require so much scrolling :P