Respec cost needs to be changed !!

methjester

For a game that offers so much freedom, they really love to stick it to you to change morphs.

Yes I have the gold, and no I do not enjoy spending 20k just to change a morph and then respec 200 skill points.

So many aspects about this game just seem hard and abusive just to be hard and abusive. It's a fun game but so many aspects are not player friendly.

Phantorang

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

simon24eb17_ESO wrote: »

Just hit VR1 , haven't needed to respec yet and I've sunk a load of points into crafting. What the hell is everyone else doing?

Apparently trying to play the game like it's WoW.

Or maybe they never played WOW and want the flexibility found in previous TES games without having to deal with stupid gold sinks. Yeah that couldn't be it,

Actually, in previous Elder Scrolls titles, you couldn't just pay gold to switch your builds around. In fact, prior to the Dragonborn DLC, a "respec" feature never existed in the Elder Scrolls series.

Thats no reason to make the same mistake again. Obviously they have learned and introduced a way to reset skills, we are all happy about that, just make it viable for more players.

There are players with enough gold to reset as often as they like, there should be a system that puts a limit that doesnt depend on gold alone. While gold dupers always will have certain advantages in a game, there should be systems to limit them.

We all should have access to it without farming gold for a long time, there are plenty of good ideas in this thread.

Why do some people always seem to compare this game with WoW?

KariTR

It isn't a mistake Phanto. It is an intentional design ethos. A design many of us find attractive and why we play this particular MMO.

khele23eb17_ESO

Avidus wrote: »

Respec's should be bloody expensive..
It makes you truly think and commit to using your skill points instead of throwing them away.
Also the amount of skill points obtainable renders a need to respec redundant aside from wanting to switch morphs.

It makes you think... and then you realise it doesnt matter what you think because half the time skill descriptions dont tell you anything about what the skill actually does if it even works right.

And 'aside from morphs'? Well, duh! That is the main reason. You morph 1 skill that is essential to your build to something that doesnt work right and there you have it - 20-30k gone.

People who think they should get to respec at next to no cost are just plain silly.
In TES universe, there are consequences for your actions, this game is no different.

Really? Consequences for your actions? You become a vampire, you can walk in the sun without harm, you get stronger the hungrier you are and no npcs attack you though its obvious by your looks that youre a f... abomination. Sure, tell me more about consequences.

Now I hear a lot of people complaining that once they got to VR content they just keep dying, and had to respec to survive..
wth are those people doing? Not sure.
I am VR2, I have maxed skill points in all professions but enchanting.
And I am a resto staff user, I also have no secondary weapon.

There are class/build combos that can be played successfully by rubbing your buttcheeks against the keyboard.

Phantorang

I agree it shouldnt be easy, but there should be other ways than alot of gold to undo mistakes. Even make it harder and put a limit to how many times you can reset within a certain amount of time, just reduce the cost some or introduce other ways to do it.

methjester

KariTR wrote: »

It isn't a mistake Phanto. It is an intentional design ethos. A design many of us find attractive and why we play this particular MMO.

Maybe you like MMO's with questionable mechanics, but I think their sub drop off speaks otherwise.

There is no good reason why a respec should cost as much as it does. I do not care about previous single player Elder Scroll games either. This is an MMO and they are not the same class of game.

They are making this game hard for the sake of hard and it's driving people away.

PBpsy

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Now I hear a lot of people complaining that once they got to VR content they just keep dying, and had to respec to survive..
wth are those people doing? Not sure.
I am VR2, I have maxed skill points in all professions but enchanting.
And I am a resto staff user, I also have no secondary weapon.

There are class/build combos that can be played successfully by rubbing your buttcheeks against the keyboard.

.

A nightblade can go trough VR1-4 using only two active skills I guess that should be enough for everybody.

I think some people would be happy with choosing a skill at start and then pressing it until they reach VR10. How would that be for ''meaningful consequences''?

Khuul99

I understand both sides of the argument but I lean towards keep the system as is but allow people to switch morph on skills.

If you lower the cost (which I don't really think is necessary, because you want to discourage people to flock towards the latest fotm build as soon as it arrives) we need a timer on it. Maybe once every week or so.

It costs money, it do make people think about it before they do it, so I think it works pretty well right now.

Edit: Just for clarification, I do think we need to be able to switch morphs on single skills just because they don't work as described or the description isn't clear enough.

Artemiisia

300 skill points to collect

if you feel need to respec every other day, you seriously need to rethink your gaming style.

I have with my main respec once, cost like 7500 gold, big deal.

now it cost 19.400 gold, but I really dont need to respec, in order to play the way I want

got nearly 3 weapons skill maxed out
got all my passives skilled
mages/fighters/3magic/light/medium/restro/destruc

so hey, if you feel the need to respec that often, there is something wrong in your choices where to put them.

think smart, skill points are like a fine women, once you find her, you dont let her go

khele23eb17_ESO

Artemiisia wrote: »

300 skill points to collect

if you feel need to respec every other day, you seriously need to rethink your gaming style.

If you feel the need to reply without reading a couple of posts first you should seriously rethink your forum participation style

Its not about having too few skill points.

Dymence

The cost is not too high at all. The amount of gold required for a respec is easily attainable by simply killing some mobs and doing some quests.

I earn so much gold just by playing the game that I don't even know what to do with it. I don't even use guild trading nor do I grind mobs. I just play the game and sell my loot to npcs.

That aside, the game does have awfully deceiving tooltips for morphs sometimes, meaning it doesn't always accurately display the benefits of a certain morph, often ending up in people who don't yet have a lot of experience in the game to make mistakes they wouldn't have had to make. So as others have said, it would be nice to have an option to just respec morphs next to being able to respec everything.

Or Zenimax could just update their morph tooltips to accurately display what a morph actually does instead of hiding details, but that would be absolute madness...

Turelus

The current system as it is now means that choices have consequences and players have to think about the actions they're taking in regards to skills.

From other games I have played where players were allowed to respec any time or have two specs they could switch between multiple builds with ease and meant players would PVE spec for the week the use the cheap/free reset to do their PVP build over the weekend.

The reset all is very costly but it's also the best way to avoid the lack of consequence of going for one build over another.
Being able to reset a single SP means you can invest into a tree of skills, level it to max then pay a small gold cost to reset one few points out and move them to something useful or the next tree you wish to level.

If I can remember correctly the max cost for a full skill reset is something like 30-50k, this isn't actually a great deal of money in the grand scheme of things and if you're just looking at doing one reset a month it's something which is achievable.
I don't want to see the game in a place where players are changing skills every week, however that's my personal preference and I can't sway ZOS from any choices they make.

I am however in support of every character having one free skill and attribute reset for their first time, this way new players who make mistakes will be able to reset and fix any big errors without spending thousands of gold.

ZOS could also entice players with free resets as gifts for world holidays, a small but fair token.

p.hurst1b16_ESO

It needs to b e drastically reduced to a significant cost but also scaling.


Skills should be something like

3000, 6000, 9000, 12000, 15000 and that is the cap.

Stats more like

2000, 4000, 6000, 8000, 10000 and that is the cap.

Significant to make it non trivial but affordable.

If a skill or morph is nerfed or adjusted then every player with that skill on a level 50 character should get one free respec. The lower levels have to live with it.

Problem is the stupid horrible game wrecking gear attrition nightmare from the 2nd gen of MMO's. Zenimax need to reason that one out and fast.

Turelus

p.hurst1b16_ESO wrote: »

It needs to b e drastically reduced to a significant cost but also scaling.


Skills should be something like

3000, 6000, 9000, 12000, 15000 and that is the cap.

Stats more like

2000, 4000, 6000, 8000, 10000 and that is the cap.

Significant to make it non trivial but affordable.

If a skill or morph is nerfed or adjusted then every player with that skill on a level 50 character should get one free respec. The lower levels have to live with it.

Problem is the stupid horrible game wrecking gear attrition nightmare from the 2nd gen of MMO's. Zenimax need to reason that one out and fast.

Personally I think it's already affordable and non trivial, remember that there are already people in this game with hundreds of thousands of gold.
Those engaged in trading are making a lot of money from the buy low, sell high right now especially in regards to rare motifs.

The average gold per player is only going to increase with longer play meaning those who have the higher costs should in theory be able to afford them.
I mean with the exception of buying horses, material and repair bills what use does gold have in the game? A character which has reached end game without anything left to buy will be amounting gold at a pretty reasonable rate.

Valmond

the respec cost is not that bad when you're still levelling.
But once you hit VR10, and have ran out of quests.
Then the high respec cost, high cost of repairs, and low gold gain starts to really hit home.

And until they have enough skill points for us to fill every slot, and a method of switching morphs, there is call for a method to respec used skill points.

ShintaiDK

Respecs are too cheap. Its a too cheap way to change to bandwagon metality. Or the classic redo of choices. Live with it instead.

khele23eb17_ESO

Turelus wrote: »

The average gold per player is only going to increase with longer play meaning those who have the higher costs should in theory be able to afford them.
I mean with the exception of buying horses, material and repair bills what use does gold have in the game? A character which has reached end game without anything left to buy will be amounting gold at a pretty reasonable rate.

So what is there to do at VR10 that brings in gold at a reasonable rate? The only thing that comes to mind is grinding mobs. Great... that'll keep people playing -_-

Bolsh

No .. but I agree morphs should be able to be changed for a fee I don't see how changing morphs frequently would encourage fotm players. .

ShintaiDK

Bolsh wrote: »

No .. but I agree morphs should be able to be changed for a fee I don't see how changing morphs frequently would encourage fotm players. .

Change morphs freely? In that case you DO exactly end up with people using the morph of the month. Its sad that people want everyone on easymode.

methjester

ShintaiDK wrote: »

Bolsh wrote: »

No .. but I agree morphs should be able to be changed for a fee I don't see how changing morphs frequently would encourage fotm players. .

Change morphs freely? In that case you DO exactly end up with people using the morph of the month. Its sad that people want everyone on easymode.

Sure, you have 300 skill points which is plenty to go around but you don't like that morph because you want to change up your play style... BAM!!! 20,000 gold please and respec all 300 skill points. Some morphs significantly change major talents.

Who's talking easy mode? This is just bad design.

OmniDo

Azarul wrote: »

I think its fine. Personally I wish there were no re-specs.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

This. There are too many skill points for a re-spec to ever be necessary unless you've made a significant choice about abandoning an entire weapon/crafting line.

If the two of you find grinding the same content repeatedly entertaining, each time you decide to test out a new morph, then simply elect to not use the option.
As for myself and probably many others, I DETEST having to spend multiple hours of mind-numbing, boring, and monotonous questing just to be able to afford to change a morph for ONE or TWO abilities, to say nothing of testing out new morphs that would be otherwise impossible.

The solution of: "Didnt choose the right morph? Oh well reroll." is unacceptable and asinine.

pknecron

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Azarul wrote: »

I think its fine. Personally I wish there were no re-specs.

This. There are too many skill points for a re-spec to ever be necessary unless you've made a significant choice about abandoning an entire weapon/crafting line.

This is a case of throwing out the baby with the bath water. As an example: Every toon I create regardless of class will use the Intimidate and Persuade passives from the Fighter's and Mage's Guilds. I will keep these passives FOREVER, and there is no need when I respec to remove them just so I have to add them again. What the game should do is allow you to respec individual skills in individual trees. That's how my respecing usually goes; it's not wholesale changes it just tweaking a few skills here an there. Getting rid of redundant ones for ones more useful to my current build.

For me it seams like EVERYTHING in this game is designed around gold sinks, which is the most anti-fun thing a company can do to their game. At 100g per skill that's how it should work. If they want us to respec everything, it should be 5 or 10g per point, tops. Hell, SWTOR allows members to respec for free. TESO is a great game, but it needs more carrot and less stick.

Singular

Azarul wrote: »

I think its fine. Personally I wish there were no re-specs.

Ridiculous. You're talking about a game where you level up in PVE only to endgame in PVP.

The skills you use in PVP differ than those in PVE. Plus, given that soft caps change with leveling, you're not going to have a great idea of what will work for your build until you hit endgame.

Lazrael

The current gold cost is pretty restrictive for us filthy casuals. I would love to be able to play enough to have the funds to experiment and change by build at various points in the game, but I just don't have the time (Have to make money to pay the sub fee after all). With the cost of bag/bank space, repairs, ect, which are kind of a necessity in this game, the current cost is a bit insane.

There has to be a better system.

THE RENT IS TOO DAMN HIGH!!!!

Elder_Thorn

i agree with those who say, it should be possible to reset a specific skill to try out other morphs or at least 1 specific skill line for that reason.

Turelus

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

The average gold per player is only going to increase with longer play meaning those who have the higher costs should in theory be able to afford them.
I mean with the exception of buying horses, material and repair bills what use does gold have in the game? A character which has reached end game without anything left to buy will be amounting gold at a pretty reasonable rate.

So what is there to do at VR10 that brings in gold at a reasonable rate? The only thing that comes to mind is grinding mobs. Great... that'll keep people playing -_-

There are already daily quests which are worth 300gp each in Cyrodiil (about 50 of these), and grinding mobs/bosses or PVP is mostly what the endgame currently is for a VR10 any way.

A better solution would be to address the lack of income for a V10 with better daily content and income instead lowering costs of services which are meant to be kept high to keep choices and consequences in the game.

TetsuMaru

I enjoy the fact that this high cost requires players to invest in their decision making and encourages experimentation. The worst part of mmos imo is the cookie cutter "best" way to make a character. If my character is the exact same as yours and everyone elses whats the point. Heroism or the illusion of it comes from the sensation you can do what others cannot. This is destroyed by the ability to instantly recall all previous decisions in order to make your character fit a predetermined mold. Furthermore, anyone who cannot see outside this lack of tailoring and kicks players for not being a certain kind of dk or templar or nb or feels they should educate players on their build (constructive criticism aside) definately do not make my friends list.

pknecron

TetsuMaru wrote: »

I enjoy the fact that this high cost requires players to invest in their decision making and encourages experimentation. SNIP

Um, you have that 100% backwards. Insanely high repsec costs discourage experimentation, and force people to find the best builds through other means and not try anything for yourself.

TetsuMaru

Negative. I meant the high cost discourages people from instantly finding a "fix" to their build and are inversely incetivised to continue their chosen skill set. Sometimes resulting in good outcomes sometimes bad but all the while it prevents everyone being exactly the same. Something zeni had to avoid having 4 classes in the game. Diversity. There are enoigh skill points no one should feel pressured to respec...especially by others.

Tolio

Avidus wrote: »

Respec's should be bloody expensive..
It makes you truly think and commit to using your skill points instead of throwing them away.
Also the amount of skill points obtainable renders a need to respec redundant aside from wanting to switch morphs.

People who think they should get to respec at next to no cost are just plain silly.
In TES universe, there are consequences for your actions, this game is no different.

Now I hear a lot of people complaining that once they got to VR content they just keep dying, and had to respec to survive..
wth are those people doing? Not sure.
I am VR2, I have maxed skill points in all professions but enchanting.
And I am a resto staff user, I also have no secondary weapon.

And its easy, I can even compete in PvP against VR10s and can out heal their damage output.

Unfortunately during the course of an MMO skills get adjusted, buffed, nerfed, reworked. Thus rendering well planned character strategies obsolete.
When this happens, people are forced to respec without any fault of their own.

That will be the most problematic thing to happen with the high respec costs (I doubt that ZOS will reset all skill points in trees they change as is the common practice in ALL other mmos with a comparable skill system).
And what will the players who have well payed jobs but little time/encouragement to grind out tons of gold do than? Not rocket science...