Why ESO is failing. (and I'm NOT happy about it :( )

Shanna

I think it might be the curse of being older...we see what is good from the old days gone missing, and can't find a reason to appreciate the new. I need a rocking chair and a porch right about now..."I remember when mmorpg's used to MEAN something!"

I do agree with the op's sentiment. Hence why I am here, and not already logged on.

*oh, and, as an additional note....I wasted $100 on getting my 21 year old son the physical CE, and $50 on getting my teenage son the digital IE...because neither one of them find this game appealing enough to even activate their 30 days.

Laranja

gladen5rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I agree. There is nothing to entice me to continue. I look about the world and having adventured out into it know darn well there wont be anything different around that corner other than scenery.

I miss that chest that has a tiny percentage of spawning something magical. I miss standing in the tunnel and trading, sitting and chatting with people. I miss the one guild system where people matter. I miss those quests for the epic pieces of armor that give you are buff and are highly valued on raids. I miss clickies. Items that offer you something.

Why when I can have more than one mount can I not choose which to ride while away from the stable. More importantly, why would you design it like that? The UI of this game is not simplified, it is annoying to have to use the '.' button and not have a mouse function instead. It is not new or inventive, just bloody annoying.

The mobs here are always the same, different levels in different zones. The detail to armor is terrible and thank god for those awful costumes to cover up the washed out armors. Enter a dungeon, prepare to fight, people run past me and the halls are cleared before I begin, or, I enter the dungeon and bots have cleared it for me.

You have already covered all the reasons I sit here typing on a forum instead of playing the game. I have not yet left the game, but my incentive to log in is just not there. The fact is, business comes before the game and I wish game companies would understand that the reason those early games worked is because they cared about their customers, their game, then their bank accounts. Put in that order, money grows on your proverbial trees.

Well said man. Well said. To bad it falls on deaf ears. You'd think that after all these years and all the failures that have come and gone that the Devs would have a clue by now yeah?

Enkil

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

Mmorpgs will return to their roots in time, I am sure of that. Newer ones will be clever enough to take elements from the UO/Shadowbane era or even truly innovate. ESO will be one more bad example and it's a shame, because the game is beautiful - unfortunately that is only what it is.

Ahh.. shadowbane.. Would have loved to see elder scrolls take that type of route with a dynamic world of player guild cities you could siege. I have guild mates that currently prefer to play the Shadowbane emulator than this game. I hope mmorpgs do indeed return to their roots at some point.

Laranja

Leesha wrote: »

Lucardes wrote: »

It already failed look at the pvp forums!!!!

Every single damn post there is a concern (no joke just go look)
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/categories/EN-campaigns
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/categories/EN-campaigns
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/categories/EN-campaigns

This kind of stuff shows up in the pvp forums of every single multiplayer game with pvp.

The game won't fail purely because pvp'ers are unhappy.

PvP centric game wont fail because PvPers are unhappy.... right, ok then.

Varivox9

I think, for me, with a MMO so focused on PvE content, they'd have hired a better writer or two (as the story is abysmal imo) and/or added in multiple areas. By level 40 (when I couldn't stand to log in anymore), every area felt the same as AD. I go from one forest zone, on rails, to another on rails forest zone. That was always a bonus to games like WoW or GW2, when I got tired of the aesthetics of a zone, I'd go level somewhere else. Here though, I'm forced to go from Auridon to Grahtwood, following the quests they put up in a very linear fashion, and it kills the main appeal of the ES series (exploration) for me. I could forgive no progress for PvP if PvE was remotely interesting, but it isn't.

This game has so much potential, and I feel like the devs failed to deliver on any of it. I honestly think that the only reason they released the game was because they had no faith that ESO would be relevant after Wildstar/ArchAge/WoW expansion released. I'll try ESO again in 6 months, but right now, there is absolutely no way I can justify a sub fee for this game.

kassandratheclericb14_ESO

I am not going to say there are not issues with this game. There are...and it seems like they are working on these things. I am happy to say I haven't seen any bots or got any spam in 3 days! Thank you.

I love how everyone compares brand new MMOs with ones that have been out for years and years. I mean Sheo's cheese man!! How long has WoW been out, doing stuff? Despite its recent issues it has been doing it a long time and has spent YEARS AND YEARS growing its world and community. A month old game really is comparing apples and oranges. The title of this thread alone is likely to turn one of thinking there is nothing of value here. Constructive criticsm is best and I think that many folks are trying to do that (though OP-no offense but when you tell something is bad give a way it could be made better.)

I do agree that there is not much reason for grouping up at times. I think this could be improved by doing something similar that Rift does with bosses and rifts...anyone that has their settings for public grouping..when you run up to a rift (or whatever) then it ask if you want to join the group...you click one button and its done. Then you get a split on the loot, everyone gets a prize for how much they put into the activity and then the game rolls on special loot drops. It is a pretty fair system in my opinion and it encourages grouping and not just stand around wait for the boss to respawn then go.

Remember also that WoW and other MMOs came along when things were just beginning and they got a great deal of wiggling room and time to improve. Now these days its like you have to succeed or fail in the month you come out. It isn't fair and doesn't give a game time to grow and improve.

So if you want to help this game..by all means give some constructive ideas for improvement. Don't go on the forums and rage quit. Take some time away from the game and don't pay then come back to see improvements. No one is in any obligation to pay each month if they don't wish to do so.

Amsel_McKay

"Remember also that WoW and other MMOs came along when things were just beginning and they got a great deal of wiggling room and time to improve."

WOW was better when it was young and was closer to EQ... now like all MMOs its too easy. I loved and will NEVER get back that EQ first 3 years, best MMO years of my life and the 48 hours staying up on massive raids will never happen again...

I will never love a char in a MMO again because I could care less I deleted my level 40 Templar yesterday because I wanted room for alts. I had no attachment to it even with the several hours played.

Ulvich

The only reason this game would fail is because people would lose faith in ZOS. And that's not really fair after only a month of being released.

Varivox9

kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »

I love how everyone compares brand new MMOs with ones that have been out for years and years. I mean Sheo's cheese man!! How long has WoW been out, doing stuff? Despite its recent issues it has been doing it a long time and has spent YEARS AND YEARS growing its world and community. A month old game really is comparing apples and oranges. The title of this thread alone is likely to turn one of thinking there is nothing of value here. Constructive criticsm is best and I think that many folks are trying to do that (though OP-no offense but when you tell something is bad give a way it could be made better.)

No one is going to say that ESO should have 10 years of content/polish, but ESO has almost no endgame and no polish. ESO was rushed out the door and makes every MMO release in recent history look amazing. A long "newgame+" grind is not endgame either. It's hard to be constructive when all you have to say is "maybe this should have been in beta and you should have had some quality standards for your product" and it'll be true.

Want constructive criticism for ESO? Go back and do everything again, but WAY better.

Shanna

Ulvich wrote: »

The only reason this game would fail is because people would lose faith in ZOS. And that's not really fair after only a month of being released.

I personally didn't ever have faith in ZOS. I hadn't heard of them before ESO. My faith was in Bethesda.

metaliquidorwb17_ESO

gladen5rwb17_ESO wrote: »

The mobs here are always the same, different levels in different zones. The detail to armor is terrible and thank god for those awful costumes to cover up the washed out armors. Enter a dungeon, prepare to fight, people run past me and the halls are cleared before I begin, or, I enter the dungeon and bots have cleared it for me.

You have already covered all the reasons I sit here typing on a forum instead of playing the game. I have not yet left the game, but my incentive to log in is just not there. The fact is, business comes before the game and I wish game companies would understand that the reason those early games worked is because they cared about their customers, their game, then their bank accounts. Put in that order, money grows on your proverbial trees.

This.

Dungeons are like a bad joke, there is noting to them that you want to commit to, but then you wonder why is there so many people complaining about getting to level 50 in no time and nothing left to do.. well all the content is bland and boring and a dungeons should have been the kind of experience that any gamer would expect from the word "Dungeon".. Hell! even neverwinter make it way better than ESO in terms of dungeons.

I'm waiting for miracles with this game seriously, i think is the only thing that can save it right now.

Also is so truth about the money grab that eso clearly was, so blatant that it seems they knew that at this stage the game couldn't make a lot more than the initial sales and a lot less subs, charging as a AAA mmo with not much to deliver to the promise.

Is truth in economy that if you value enough your customers and give them what they want, they'll keep giving you money, maybe for as long as they live and that is a lot of cash for Zenimax. but it seems they though on releasing the game, selling the hell out of it and then hide behind such a mediocre customer service as i have never seen before for an mmo.

Dodece

@Laranja‌

This games primary focus is cooperative rather then competitive. We must not forget that competitive play is only permitted within a specially designated area. Warded off from the rest of the game world. To prevent players from even just accidentally wandering into the zone. Most everything is or can quickly become a group effort. Be honest how often are you really permitted to do anything by yourself in this game.

Were you to genuinely argue for the competitive aspect of the game to be seen as paramount. You must ask yourself why isn't spontaneous interaction not only permitted but encouraged. What we have in this game are play dates. As far as I am concerned. If this game was really concerned with competitive play. It could have allowed it to be any place, and at any time.

The first game I played in this genre allowed players to do exactly that. You had the option to join one side in a war, and if ever you were in the mood to do so. You could go to a faction non player character, and have them make you overt for purposes of fighting other players, and that was it. You could kill them where ever they happened to be in the game world. The game even forced them into being overt if they engaged in non player faction content.

Which I will tell you was loads of fun. I would ambush opposing faction players running faction missions outside of their factions stronghold. Sometimes I would even sneak into their cities, and murder them after they went away from the keyboard. I once killed a group of them doing that, and the best part of the game was this.

You couldn't just kill those players. Combat itself damaged their gear, and you could apply wounds to them that would remain even after they revived their character. In other words I could mess them up so bad. That they would have to spend the next half hour of game time healing up all the damage I did to them. Now that was a true gem of the game.

Oh by the way after I did that. Those people I killed actually held grudges, and would send me threatening messages. Sometimes my guild would raid those cities. Just show up murder a few dozen low level players, and as their buddies came pouring back into town to deliver payback. We would just vanish back into the wilderness, and wait for thirty minutes or so until the avengers figured we weren't coming back, and as they trickled back out of town to grind. We would hit the town again.

Anyway this game being pvp centric is a laugh riot.

metaliquidorwb17_ESO

someuser wrote: »

I think @jaygraeb14a_ESO made some good points.

However, one point I must make is that ESO has only been out for a little over a month now... Isn't that still "beta" for MMOs? What this game needs is more people like jaygraeb14a_ESO who can give constructive insight into some of the game mechanisms that may not be as well developed/conceived as maybe they could.

However, I would caution doomsayers when the game is still so young. Zennimax so far has seemed to actually care about their little baby here. Sure they also have an eye out for profit but that isn't always a negative thing... As long as Zennimax continues to listen to their customers (read the first official blog) and shows their customers that they appreciate their business (like giving free game time and discounted game purchases) then I'm going to stick around and continue to support Zennimax with my generous donation of $15 a month

Man this is not and indie game. hahahah!

metaliquidorwb17_ESO

randomriffyrocksprerb18_ESO wrote: »

For those who think, just wait a while, its only been a couple of months, its gonna improve.

Well of course it can improve and it will improve but only to the extent of the foundations it has placed. The foundations so far is average. It could've taken a better route with a bunch of illusion, alteration,destruction etc spells, stealth trees, with a bunch of morphs for each spell and no classes at all, no softlocks, high end graphics

I vote for a revamp or ESO2

Agree, if it can make it a better game for me go reset the servers and start over again.

ljb2k5_ESO

For my 2 cents, I am finding having hit V1 today, that ESO is a really cool single player game with some other people running around occasionally making boss fights easier or taking out mobs with/for me. However, I don't see it having lasting appeal. On one toon, if I can endure the trickle of xp that I am getting at veteran levels, to get to 10 I will have done all the quests in all alliance areas. I am completely disincentivized to roll an alt. I spent a majority of the day today, since I hit V1 early, testing alts, and I just can't get any past lvl 6 before I can't take it anymore. I can't redo all of it.

Worse still is that my main doesn't really help any of my alts. Since mobs don't drop loot, I can't go power grind mats from enemies and it is boring as hell to ride in lowbie zones to collect low level mats. My main in no way aids my alts at all, when in other games I can usually profit on alts from a higher level main toon. Yes I can give them gold, but gold isn't all that worthwhile in this game since crafting is better and all items are overpriced like crazy at NPC merchants.

Also on my main from my actual class skill lines I use maybe 3 abilities, and all the rest come from Guild, Weapon, or World lines, which honestly means re-rolling a new class isn't really worth much, as I will likely end up using similar powers for the most part again from lines that are non-unique to the classes.

Sadly all of this brings me to the conclusion that ESO is a novel experience once, and only once. There really isn't much to keep me subbed. The best parts of the game I have done already, the Veteran slog and non-unique nature of class lines really remove all incentive to level a new toon, and once the honey moon is over, and sadly I feel like I am at that point with only about 6 days played, all the bugs and irritating design choices that I overlooked before really stand out and can't be overlooked anymore. I really enjoyed ESO for what it was, a multiplayer version of the single player games, with players dropping in and out whenever. As long as I wasn't actually grouped with anyone, other people were pretty helpful. My experience to this point, but the way I am feeling about the game right now, I may not be with it much longer. Not mad, not trying to be a hater or mean, just offering my sincere opinion in the hopes that it may make the game better. Thanks.

RedTalon

I haven't even felt the need to join a guild yet, but have been noticing fewer and fewer guilds about.4

metaliquidorwb17_ESO

jaygraeb14a_ESO wrote: »

GREAT feedback guys!!! Really nice having a constructive look at it.

"Someuser", absolutely the game is VERY new. And I really hope things can turn around. The PROBLEM is every MMO that had a "bad" or "fair" start usually ends up tanking. Why? Because most people wont give things a 2nd shot. Even if a game did turn around; by then the majority of players just wont turn back for a round 2.

"Laura" I look at numbers. Just as a business would they too would look at "numbers/profit" coming in. Unfortunately why you may view that this is my opinion...its also the opinion of the 5 guilds i'm in. (500 capped going from 100's online to now 40...50.)

I will even dare say that 30-50% of the playerbase will NOT re-sub for their first payment of $15.00.

Part of this will of course be due to "summer" which is always the case; But it will be interesting to see what happens AFTER Craglorn and Fall.

Hoping for the best,
Wrain

If you actually have to look the market as a customer and think on the business, there is no time and so many good games to see specially this year, that an mmo (it does not matter is TES) have to compete and deliver as if it were the ultimate experience adressing not just MMOers but any kind of player and catch attention of those willing to commit months and years if possible as i have done for not only mmos or sub based games.

VlVEC

It's not failing for me, I just didn't burn myself out of the game within the first month trying to 100% everything.

mowind

jaygraeb14a_ESO wrote: »

Remember ONE thing. WoW had NO competition. EQ2 dropped the ball (NO PVP). (Not to mention WoW had a huge following from Blizzard. And I will state Blizzard was and IS not the company they are today)

EQ2, really?

SWG, dropped the ball...not EQ2

i also call *** on you playing an MMO on a BBS....unless your talking about The Oregon Trail...

jaygraeb14a_ESO

Alot of great commentary in here. I also want to state that I do NOT feel the game is sunk (just yet). The actual "coding" is done very well.

Not since DAOC about a year or 2 after release have I been able to see this many bodies in PvP without lagging out. IMO thats a great accomplishment. (something WoW cannot do or will ever be able to do)

So the game itself is "usable". I just hope that they make some drastic changes to keep one's character/toon feeling "unique". Identity is HUGE to even us in real life, even more while gaming. (We nerd out!!!)

The game is fresh, new, and its obviously a new company. By all means, I am really wanting to see it take off and go in a GREAT direction; but as I stated, some changes are gonna have to be made.

And Mowind, keep the discussion positive. No reason to call me a liar. Back when we did BBS you have to understand some places had 9-10 phone lines all running to the house/computer. Do some research before you call people out.

Muds were around a long long time before the well known "internet".

Wrain

mowind

jaygraeb14a_ESO wrote: »

And Mowind, keep the discussion positive. No reason to call me a liar. Back when we did BBS you have to understand some places had 9-10 phone lines all running to the house/computer. Do some research before you call people out.

Muds were around a long long time before the well known "internet".

my sister was dating a SYSADMIN of a very large 20 line BBS back then, so i don't need to do any research.

as i was pointing out, you never played an MMO on a BBS...as you have just stated, you played a MUD (Usually a text based RPG), which is leaps and bounds away from an MMO...it was more like a fancy way to roll a D20.

jaygraeb14a_ESO

You are obviously wanting to argue. We will call it a draw.

Wrain

mowind

jaygraeb14a_ESO wrote: »

You are obviously wanting to argue. We will call it a draw.

Wrain

nope, not trying to argue. just calling out your errors...don't be mad, it is not personal.

someuser

VlVEC wrote: »

It's not failing for me, I just didn't burn myself out of the game within the first month trying to 100% everything.

Maybe that's been my saving grace as well. I've been playing since 4-day early release and my two toons are lvl 18 and 20 respectively. I just completed the Stone Falls map twice doing all the missions, skyshards, and dungeons twice over. Just trying to take it slow and enjoy the game

Turrican

I largely agree with the OP. There is no consequence to the player's actions in the modern MMO. There is also extremely little variety between characters. It's why I stopped playing WoW just after WotLK came out. Blizzard killed their game by trying to give everything to everyone without any degree of effort.

OP, you say you've played every MMO. How about Eve online? It has what you are looking for (albeit in a starkly different setting). It remains the only real MMO experience out there and will probably be rolling along years after games like ESO have closed their servers.

Audigy

Some valid points,

1. Risk vs Reward = This WAS/IS huge, unfortunately this no longer applies. You can go out, die over and over, nothing happens. NOTHING. No loss, no shame, you really just dont care- nor should you

I can tell you a story. At Ultima I once went into a dungeon because a guy asked me to enlighten it for him. So I equipped my book to cast the spell so that he could see better. While doing so he robbed me and my beautiful and very rare sword was gone.
Before I could kill him, his char vanished in the dark and I was very sad.

With the Thieves guild around the corner, would players like such a system? Would it work out or would it result in a massive griefing?

Ultima got rid of many features over time, due the people that abused it. I am sure many Developers have great idea´s, heck I have them too. But with the current community status, they would never work. People today are just evil, they will abuse every loophole that the game has to offer.

2. Simplification = Yup, Remember when you could play games and completely make a massive mistake to your build??? Your character was GIMP and everyone knew it. Want to somehow fix it???

At Ultima you got skill points very slowly and if you didn't want a skill to raise further, you could downrank it and it fell. You pretty much unlearned things like wood cutting or anatomy if you didn't use the skills and worked on something else.

So respec has always been in games, it just wasn't about hitting a button but about actually learning something new. I wish MMO´s would offer such a system again, to respect on the fly like at wow is crap. ESO did better there, but the question is how long can they keep this. We already have those at the forum who want free respecs...

4. Graphics/Hollywood= Yup! Its now more important to hire top tier artists, 3d designers, Media and advertising OVER gameplay.

We don't live in stoneage anymore, so graphics should go up, everyone can have a decent enough pc to run it. Having good graphics does not imply having bad gameplay. At Ultima it was hard to actually see some items in the original client You had to use a magnifying glass at times ^^

5. Non-sandbox = Gamers used to MAKE their adventures. Now its "scripted" questing, hand-tied governed GM/Designer control.

You can still do your own stuff, there are no quest´s that you must do to advance in the world with the exception of the story quest, but I am sure you could theoretically even skip that.
Enter caves, kill random things, do dungeons, visit cities ... its all there.

At Ultima you just adventured and killed things on the way until you could kill other things somewhere else. It was quite funny attacking the timber wolf, but not the corpser as the latter was too strong, even though it stood next to the world. You had a reason to always go back to old territories and try again.

While I liked the freedom of this, having quest´s isn't bad either especially with ESO. They tell you a story and enhance your gameplay. They are not as empty and dull as at other MMO´s, they actually make fun and they are gladly not all at a quest hub like at SWTOR or wow.

I met crafty Lerisa yesterday and she was great, but I also met a stupid guy who wasn't such a pleasure.

6. Community= There is no community. Its now about ME ME ME. You wonder why dungeons just are'nt that fun? Or questing is more "work" than "enjoyment"?

This is sadly true. One of the reasons is the massive abuse of addons and research material. People know everything about a game before they even played it. They compare each other all the time.
People know which class is strongest, they knew that vampires could exploit, they knew where to exploit xp (pvp) - they just knew everything. Because of this they felt entitled to exploit the system, because it gave them an advantage over others.

Its all about having advantages over others, if a dungeon goes wrong people don't discuss why, but point with their fingers on a single person who plays not after a guide or some pro gamer tutorial.

We sadly cant stop this. As long Curse, Esohead & Co. exist, Elitism and harassment will as well. The only thing ZO can do is to keep Addons at an absolute minimum. Don't let players inspect other players, don't let them track dps or gearscores.

Now where the OP is wrong.

1. Give us a REASON to PvP. Give us XP out there, were SICK of questing!!! Give us DUNGEONS that we fight over that drop EXCLUSIVE items! How about some form of PvP points that give us SKILLS to BUY! (DAOC anyone???)

Ultima was never about XP, it was about the journey. If you only do pvp or dungeons because of exclusive loot or more XP then you are as guilty for the downfall of the MMO franchise as you blame others to be.

Ultima was never about kill raid boss x and loot super epic item. Most of the good stuff came from crafting and other items were found randomly in caves or chest´s all around the world, with the exception of some set items but those only stood for wealth and not a more powerful char.

Back in the days, people explored the world and found things on their way - many hours could be wasted there without finding anything of use, so why the need for instant gratification at todays MMO´s? Why do you need a reason to enter a dungeon? Why do you must get more than someone who doesn't enter it?

Just makes no sense.

3. Four classes really??? Yes the game IS new but you have GOT to add skills to fight for, earn, or give us some type of unique feeling. Both of my friends have already quit this game after realizing just how basic their toons are. Even at 50, its just the same thing!!!

You did not really have a class system at Ultima. Players could become whatever they wanted to be, the whole class stuff did more harm than good to MMO´s.

In MMO´s today a player picks a class, before he actually played the game. Why is a Priest at wow a healer, even though that char is just born? Why cant a Priest decide to become a tank later or a necromancer or a skilled crafter? That's just a very wrong system.

Players should roll a char at the beginning and then make their way up to whatever they desire. If someone wants to play a wood elf summoner then he or she should be able to do so, just like someone should be a crafter and merchant.

A class comes by playing, not by selecting it in a menu.

DAOC did a GREAT job at doing this. They kept PVE SEPERATE from the designated PVP areas and BOTH sides were happy!!!

This is not true. The idea of having pvp and pve in one zone originated from DAOC and Ultima Online. Maybe you just forgot this, but each faction had a designated quest zone in one of the "battlegrounds" there at DAOC. So if you wanted to kill someone, you left your zone or defended your zone, where you had quest´s.

Many quest´s involved killing some witch or frog and then you had quest´s that involved killing members of the other faction. It worked hand in hand. After you claimed victory in pvp, you could advance to special pve zones until you lost what you won before.

PVP and PVE should never be separated, it must go hand in hand to make a good game as DAOC has proven or Vanilla wow to some degree and mostly UO. As soon you start making special armor for one type to be superior over people from the other type, you destroy the game as wow has again proven in the later progress.

Also Ultima had pvp and pve in one, as the game was free for all. You could kill an NPC and instantly be attacked by a player.

That pvp and pve must be separated is wow propaganda and sadly many fell for it these days.

5. LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS!!! People who take the time to jump on test servers are usually people who are really really trying to better something. Far to often i've seen in forums children just screaming about something being "too hard" or "unfair" and eventually you cave to them. Something EARNED is far far more addictive/contagious than something GIVEN.

Blizzard does this and it doesn't do them any good.

D3 was changed because of the demands from D2 players back at the battle.net forums. I was one of those players and really enjoyed D3. But as always, you had players that didn't want D2 to change and that's why Blizzard is now turning D3 ROS into a D2 LOD clone more and more.

In my opinion will you always have many different opinions on your game if you are a lead Designer. There isn't a right or wrong, but a vocal majority.

ESO has a feedback tab in their game client, I abuse this very often and this is how it can work.
While D3 or wow introduced many idea´s others and I had over the years, they also added a lot that I never liked. In the end a game company knows best what sells and what works.

We often have good idea´s or bad ones for that matter, but we are no Dev´s. Who knows what obstacles ZO has to climb to give us an RP world or that questionnaire.

ESO did listen to the Beta testers a lot, the reason why we don't have wow´s annoying group DPS meter and Gearscore is thankfully because of the Beta testers who raised their concerns. Also the bank and inventory space was upgraded due our feedback.

At the same time however, it can happen that a change is coming because a vocal majority demands it like nerfs to content, superior xp in dungeons or free respecs.


Time will tell, the good thing about games is that you can always leave if you don't like it. Eso right now fits my idea of an MMO, so I stay and will have a great time for now

Omniphonic

Players are different from what they were back then. There would be one troll on the entire server, now it's a parade of trolls who think nothing of running over to hit your enemy to steal some exp from you or pulling a dolmen you've been waiting on for 10 minutes onto themselves and running away to ruin it for 'teh lulz'.

Well I'd probably still be subscribing if I could play on the test server, or just not be hassled by bots. I thought the class/skill system was pretty good, and will only get better. That and the crafting systems are the only things with real depth to them.

I honestly don't see why Zeni wouldn't just make the game f2p, and simply undercut the bots in every market with their own cash shop. Someone else on the forum shared this idea, don't remember who but the more I think about it the more I believe that's how the game should be. Zeni would be doubly motivated to crush the bot infestation, who'd have less reason to be there in the first place. That, to me, would be acceptable conditions for me to play and support ESO. Just my opinion.

Getorix

Im an old time mmo player too and I miss most of the things the op mentioned, but theyre not the reasons ESO is flopping.

Its flopping from a combination of things but really at the core its two things that are doing most of the damage.

1st is the horrible combat system, action combat in an mmo? really? how many action combat mmos have to fail before devs stop trying this. And even if you ignore the inherent failure of action combat in group pve the core of the combat mechanics don't seem like theyre even half way through development. Most weapon skills are horrible and ineffective, and im not even talking about the broken ones.

2nd, is this obsession with forcing immersion on to players. Im all for addons, love them, But this game is just about unplayable without them and that is just poor design. You have no name plates, no auction house, primitive storage, the list can go on and on.

Im trying to like this game and started out loving it but its getting very difficult to keep playing and im afraid this game will end up like many mmos in the past that were released way too early and with bad ideas, the devs will kneejerk band aid fix it by dumbing down the leveling and difficulty then we just end up with a dumbed down mmo that still has horrible mechanics and bad combat.

Moiskormoimi

The collective sentiment seems to be an issue with replayability. Most people are leveling up and realizing that it's the same regurgitated scenery, same cities all over again. Coldharbor is one reprive, but then you have go back to those same cities all over again in vet content.
This is the first mmo I've played where I didn't develop some form of emotional attachment to my main. It just feels stale to me. That's a shame, because I was one of the people rooting for this game as a whole. I hope you prove my opinion wrong, Zenimax, I really do.

Bromburak

jaygraeb14a_ESO wrote: »

I've played just about EVERY, and I mean EVERY MMO since Ultima Online made its huge push into the market as the sole MMO existing at the time commercially, and Oh how times have changed...

In other words you could be part of it watching how clones got copied to satisfy a new kind of gamer mass.

Folks: 15 years ago games were FAR different than they are now. And unfortunately ESO has NOT paid attention. Yes they WILL make their money back; and honestly thats what they care about. After all they are a business. But it was'nt always like this.

You are totally wrong here because ESO has its own character.

This includes public dungeons something that was really missing since DAOC.
But go ahead and run your instanced dungeons like in every other boring game and then come back with your "Me Me Me community statement" while you farm through instanced dungeons without any player around to feel "safe".

1. Give us a REASON to PvP. Give us XP out there, were SICK of questing!!! Give us DUNGEONS that we fight over that drop EXCLUSIVE items! How about some form of PvP points that give us SKILLS to BUY! (DAOC anyone???)

Interesting, but there is a reason why the PvP Dungeon has been announced.

3. Fix your mob placement. I have NEVER seen so few of mobs spread out as in this game. (- Shadowbane) You push pvp but again...there's NO POINT!!! Give us camps of mobs to fight over out there that actually DROP items!!! Right now its just one big FPS of boredom.

Oh thats why 30% are whining about vet content especially when it comes to pack of mob. The drops are awesome in this game. You just never get there because you are busy with promoting your negative experience only.

4. Four classes really??? Yes the game IS new but you have GOT to add skills to fight for, earn, or give us some type of unique feeling. Both of my friends have already quit this game after realizing just how basic their toons are. Even at 50, its just the same thing!!!

That comes from "copy a youtube template" attitudes.
Or playing easy setup common anytimer builds like DK with less complexity.

But there is more than that where you need to make choices and actually MUST play flexible. Figure out things and being busy with the class in detail is unique. But this is to much work for players, so just move on and copy templates.

There you go again with your 15 years.
TESO makes it different but you are not able to understand or appreciate it.

Far to often i've seen in forums children just screaming about something being "too hard" or "unfair" and eventually you cave to them.

Thats funny, because many of your points in this thread like classes , dungeons or vet content are going in the same direction ...

Something EARNED is far far more addictive/contagious than something GIVEN.

True.