To all people who make posts like "my class sucks at xxxxx, way worse then class xxxxx"

Jarnhand

Draconiuos wrote: »

I would like to direct you attention to a little MMO called The Secret World. It is not a very large MMO, but it has thrived and done well for itself without classes. Skyrim arguably one of the most popular TES games had no classes. There is at least one more MMO out there that is classless, but its name escapes me right now. (And yes I know Skyrim wasn't a MMO, but it was still a RPG). Any MMO that relies on Alts to keep it going is already in trouble.

I have played TSW for a few months, just over a year ago, have a lifetime account in TSW. Yes, TSW does not have classes, but it is relatively easy anf fast to level up alts. So what people do instead of constant respecs, is make alts. I have 2 chars there. TSW also has the best PvE in any MMO, by a long shot, so its far more entertaining to level up alts then in most MMOs.

But sadly TSW is not doing good, people get bored rather fast (few months), and PvP is boring arenas. And in total the game is not doing good, just like Conan.

And yes Skyrim is not a MMO, its a heavily modded offline single player game. This is also the problem, many ESO players come from the Elder Scrolls games, and do not understand that in a MMO you need a very different kind of balancing.

And as some saying to balance skills in PvE different then in PvP is a nightmare no company wants to touch with a 10 feet pole. So just forget it. The game needs to be balanced equal, no matter if you play PvE or PvP.

Tannakaobi

Jarnhand wrote: »

But sadly TSW is not doing good, people get bored rather fast (few months), and PvP is boring arenas. And in total the game is not doing good, just like Conan.

Not to mention that it's unknown ground. I was interested, but with no free trial and lack of information I didn't bother. But you pretty much told me what I assumed to be the case.

Draconiuos

Guppet wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

Any MMO that relies on Alts to keep it going is already in trouble.

I guess wow has been in trouble since 2005 then! What a stupid statement.

WoW, has relied on End Game content, Arenas, and Xpacs to keep it going.

Its a game that encourages alts. Always has. Also you mentioned 2 MMO's (one that's niche and one you could not even remember the name of) that don't have classes. All other games allow alts, as a way to prolong gameplay.

Alts are content, sucessfull content, if the numbers of accounts with more than one character on are anything to go by. If you think a game encouraging alts is failing, you are deluded. It keeps people paying and playing.

I had 5 55's in SWTOR and 5 85's in Cataclysm. If I had not had the option to do alts, those games would have made significantly less money out of myself. I can't for one second imagine that's an uncommon situation.

So, if all the game had to offer you at end game was to make a new character and no end game content or nothing to do with your newly maxed character you would keep playing? I never said a game that makes it worthwhile to make an alt is failing. I said any game that relies, as in that is how they plan to keep subscribers, is alt is failing. Let's look at SWTOR at the start with its lack of end game content and pvp all messed up. All you had to do when you hit 50 was make another character really. Guess what within 6 months SWTOR was failing in a bad way. So, even on of your examples proves my points, thank you for that.

Guppet

Xnemesis wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Xnemesis wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Not good at AoE, because you are a NB, then use that class unique ability, to turn invisible and avoid that large pack entirely.

Then give me some EXP for sneaking past them

In VR content, they give very very little xp. the amount you lost, you can make up with the free time you have saved by not having to kill them.

You don't have to kill all mobs in VR content, not like in 1-49 where you would be under levelled if you used the ability to sneak.

Just sneak past and laugh at those DK's and Sorc's that cant do the same.

The NB is the sneaky class, that what it brings that others don't. If you don't want to be sneaky then why did you choose the class that practically screams "hello im the sneaky one".

What? every class can sneak and I can go invis for 2.7 seconds and I'm still detectable with magelight so it is nothing special. If I stop to LOL at a DK because they have to kill the trash I left for them they will pass me because they will just mow through it and the mage will blink ahead of me. You must not be getting the point. Our ST damage is sub par..... weapon skill lines are borked when one hand shield is the best..... We have zero Ultimate generation compared to other clases.... WW is severly underpowered compared to Vamp even after the nerf. Lots of thing are funky and need to be fixed. Especially with NB.

Your not getting the point. It does not matter if NB can or cant do decent AOE compared to others. It has the utterly unique ability to just completely avoid the groups.

Its not just 2.7 seconds of invisibility. You can use it in stealth and you can chain cast it, so you are completely invisible for 11.5-12 seconds, depending on mana pool. That lets you walk right through packs, so you don't have to fight them at all, you just ignore anything up to the quest objective and get that done, then get out. Just like a classic thief or assassin would do.

Guppet

Draconiuos wrote: »

So, if all the game had to offer you at end game was to make a new character and no end game content or nothing to do with your newly maxed character you would keep playing? I never said a game that makes it worthwhile to make an alt is failing. I said any game that relies, as in that is how they plan to keep subscribers, is alt is failing. Let's look at SWTOR at the start with its lack of end game content and pvp all messed up. All you had to do when you hit 50 was make another character really. Guess what within 6 months SWTOR was failing in a bad way. So, even on of your examples proves my points, thank you for that.

SWTOR is still far more profitable than the secret world. so I don't prove any point for you.

I'm saying alts are viable content, your saying any game relying on alts is failing. No game is relying on just alts, all games need end game content, that content goes much further when you can repeat it with multiple alts, that's not rocket science.

I suppose im saying there are no successful MMO's that don't encourage alts. EVE may be the only exception I can think of.

Xnemesis

Guppet wrote: »

Xnemesis wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Xnemesis wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Not good at AoE, because you are a NB, then use that class unique ability, to turn invisible and avoid that large pack entirely.

Then give me some EXP for sneaking past them

In VR content, they give very very little xp. the amount you lost, you can make up with the free time you have saved by not having to kill them.

You don't have to kill all mobs in VR content, not like in 1-49 where you would be under levelled if you used the ability to sneak.

Just sneak past and laugh at those DK's and Sorc's that cant do the same.

The NB is the sneaky class, that what it brings that others don't. If you don't want to be sneaky then why did you choose the class that practically screams "hello im the sneaky one".

What? every class can sneak and I can go invis for 2.7 seconds and I'm still detectable with magelight so it is nothing special. If I stop to LOL at a DK because they have to kill the trash I left for them they will pass me because they will just mow through it and the mage will blink ahead of me. You must not be getting the point. Our ST damage is sub par..... weapon skill lines are borked when one hand shield is the best..... We have zero Ultimate generation compared to other clases.... WW is severly underpowered compared to Vamp even after the nerf. Lots of thing are funky and need to be fixed. Especially with NB.

Your not getting the point. It does not matter if NB can or cant do decent AOE compared to others. It has the utterly unique ability to just completely avoid the groups.

Its not just 2.7 seconds of invisibility. You can use it in stealth and you can chain cast it, so you are completely invisible for 11.5-12 seconds, depending on mana pool. That lets you walk right through packs, so you don't have to fight them at all, you just ignore anything up to the quest objective and get that done, then get out. Just like a classic thief or assassin would do.

I don't want good AoE I want enough ST damage so that I can kill 3 Mobs Faster then 15+ seconds. A guy AoEing shouldn't be able to do the same DPS as I can on a single target. The only add that drops in 2-3 seconds is the first one. We ambush into the fight, then while in air use entropy, which yes is getting a buff thankgod, and soul swallow for health regen. Then we go invisible and use surprise attack followed by heavy attack. Mob is dead now we switch weapons 12 sec cc stun one of the two left go invis surprise attack, heavy attack light attacks till dead then wait for cc to break ambush invis, surprise attack, heavy then move on. The whole ordeal for 3 mobs is around 15+ seconds. Meanwhile we have other classes that pop a defensive CD and spam AoE that kills mobs in 4-6 seconds. They also generate massive ultimate which we do not. I could just sneak by as you have suggested but I do want to fight monsters for loot and Materials for crafting. All I am asking for is bump up our damage and self heals a bit, increase our ultimate gains, and fix the passives that are broken. Our class is a bit more difficult to play we need CDS, CC, and synergys to create the ok single target damage we produce and durability Vet content commands. I guess I could use mirage, volcanic rune, ambush, extraction, and then impulse spam if I wanted AoE, but I don't. I want a stealthy duel wielding nightblade. Even If I took the D-staff method I would be oom in seconds and still not do a ton of aoe damage. So as it stands we do ok ST damage, ok aoe damage, and we can go invisible "Sometimes". We sometimes lose our invis if we have dots running on the enemy or us and occasionally hots. The class as a whole needs work. We are a jack of all trades yet a master of none. We are nothing special or unique and not worth bringing over the other classes. Hope this clarified my stance a bit. I love the class and it has great potential. Im not calling for others to be nerfed or to make us op I just want to be given some love. The next thing that needs to be looked at are weapon skills as well because one hand shield should not be the best weapon skill line.

zhevon

Generally I agree with the sentiments - but dual-wielding NBs should be able to take out a single trash monster 3 levels under him in one blow. I generally have to hit with 2 skills (1 skill if I am really lucky) and and weapons hit. And I am talking about level 20 and under when levels should make a big difference. And I am not convinced stealth makes much difference.

Guppet

Xnemesis wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Xnemesis wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Xnemesis wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Not good at AoE, because you are a NB, then use that class unique ability, to turn invisible and avoid that large pack entirely.

Then give me some EXP for sneaking past them

In VR content, they give very very little xp. the amount you lost, you can make up with the free time you have saved by not having to kill them.

You don't have to kill all mobs in VR content, not like in 1-49 where you would be under levelled if you used the ability to sneak.

Just sneak past and laugh at those DK's and Sorc's that cant do the same.

The NB is the sneaky class, that what it brings that others don't. If you don't want to be sneaky then why did you choose the class that practically screams "hello im the sneaky one".

What? every class can sneak and I can go invis for 2.7 seconds and I'm still detectable with magelight so it is nothing special. If I stop to LOL at a DK because they have to kill the trash I left for them they will pass me because they will just mow through it and the mage will blink ahead of me. You must not be getting the point. Our ST damage is sub par..... weapon skill lines are borked when one hand shield is the best..... We have zero Ultimate generation compared to other clases.... WW is severly underpowered compared to Vamp even after the nerf. Lots of thing are funky and need to be fixed. Especially with NB.

Your not getting the point. It does not matter if NB can or cant do decent AOE compared to others. It has the utterly unique ability to just completely avoid the groups.

Its not just 2.7 seconds of invisibility. You can use it in stealth and you can chain cast it, so you are completely invisible for 11.5-12 seconds, depending on mana pool. That lets you walk right through packs, so you don't have to fight them at all, you just ignore anything up to the quest objective and get that done, then get out. Just like a classic thief or assassin would do.

I don't want good AoE I want enough ST damage so that I can kill 3 Mobs Faster then 15+ seconds. A guy AoEing shouldn't be able to do the same DPS as I can on a single target. The only add that drops in 2-3 seconds is the first one. We ambush into the fight, then while in air use entropy, which yes is getting a buff thankgod, and soul swallow for health regen. Then we go invisible and use surprise attack followed by heavy attack. Mob is dead now we switch weapons 12 sec cc stun one of the two left go invis surprise attack, heavy attack light attacks till dead then wait for cc to break ambush invis, surprise attack, heavy then move on. The whole ordeal for 3 mobs is around 15+ seconds. Meanwhile we have other classes that pop a defensive CD and spam AoE that kills mobs in 4-6 seconds. They also generate massive ultimate which we do not. I could just sneak by as you have suggested but I do want to fight monsters for loot and Materials for crafting. All I am asking for is bump up our damage and self heals a bit, increase our ultimate gains, and fix the passives that are broken. Our class is a bit more difficult to play we need CDS, CC, and synergys to create the ok single target damage we produce and durability Vet content commands. I guess I could use mirage, volcanic rune, ambush, extraction, and then impulse spam if I wanted AoE, but I don't. I want a stealthy duel wielding nightblade. Even If I took the D-staff method I would be oom in seconds and still not do a ton of aoe damage. So as it stands we do ok ST damage, ok aoe damage, and we can go invisible "Sometimes". We sometimes lose our invis if we have dots running on the enemy or us and occasionally hots. The class as a whole needs work. We are a jack of all trades yet a master of none. We are nothing special or unique and not worth bringing over the other classes. Hope this clarified my stance a bit. I love the class and it has great potential. Im not calling for others to be nerfed or to make us op I just want to be given some love. The next thing that needs to be looked at are weapon skills as well because one hand shield should not be the best weapon skill line.

I totally get where you are comming from and it's nice that you want to take out mobs in the way we are specialised for, I.e. one at a time. Most just moan that they want to play exactly the same AOE game as the other classes.

I do VR content as a dual wield NB, but because I deliberately avoid the large packs, unless I have my ultimate available, I find it less frustrating than it seems most other NB's do.

If you can get use to avoiding large packs, it just becomes part of the class, rather than a frustration.

Xnemesis

zhevon wrote: »

Generally I agree with the sentiments - but dual-wielding NBs should be able to take out a single trash monster 3 levels under him in one blow. I generally have to hit with 2 skills (1 skill if I am really lucky) and and weapons hit. And I am talking about level 20 and under when levels should make a big difference. And I am not convinced stealth makes much difference.

I have taken out monsters of my own lvl with one hit but mostly casters. Stealth will only help you if the eye is fully closed and you are directly behind the enemy.

Xnemesis

Guppet wrote: »

I totally get where you are comming from and it's nice that you want to take out mobs in the way we are specialised for, I.e. one at a time. Most just moan that they want to play exactly the same AOE game as the other classes.

I do VR content as a dual wield NB, but because I deliberately avoid the large packs, unless I have my ultimate available, I find it less frustrating than it seems most other NB's do.

If you can get use to avoiding large packs, it just becomes part of the class, rather than a frustration.

I guess you are right to an extent. The problem isn't killing any number of monsters it is just the ability to do it in a timely manner. We are efficient and very good at taking care of the trash it just can take, sometimes, 3x as long as other classes.

zhevon

Xnemesis wrote: »

zhevon wrote: »

Generally I agree with the sentiments - but dual-wielding NBs should be able to take out a single trash monster 3 levels under him in one blow. I generally have to hit with 2 skills (1 skill if I am really lucky) and and weapons hit. And I am talking about level 20 and under when levels should make a big difference. And I am not convinced stealth makes much difference.

I have taken out monsters of my own lvl with one hit but mostly casters. Stealth will only help you if the eye is fully closed and you are directly behind the enemy.

I admit I have had slightly better luck with casters. But even when I line up correctly and the eye is closed, I have no appreciable improvement using stealth surprise attacks. I have tried numerous method/skill combinations. Then some d-bag 2 levels under me wanders by wielding an ice-sickle and killing things with a single blow. WTF

Xnemesis

Try to ambush in from stealth then pop invis and surprise attack you will get much better results

Xnemesis

also you can cast your soul swallow while in the air

zhevon

Xnemesis wrote: »

also you can cast your soul swallow while in the air

Please explain.

BTW I have never complained before about the NB except (maybe) about broken skills, nor whined before about anybody else being over-powered (until now).

Xnemesis

When you ambush/charge in just activate soul swallow and it will cast while on the way to the enemy.

Ravinsild

The issue is that some classes have a stronger chassis than others.

At Veteran ranks, without the support of the vampiric heals from Drain Essence and the Devouring Swarm a the Templar chassis is simply TOO WEAK to carry a 5 Heavy/2 Medium Two-Handed Weapon build.

Against 3+ mobs the Templar chassis cannot carry that playstyle, it buckles under the weight and collapses into a heap of failure.

This is unacceptable. You're right, every class should be different, but every class should be capable of carrying every playstyle.

That is the promise of ESO. You no longer have to roll "warrior, paladin, Dk, Monk or Druid" to tank and "Sorry only warriors and paladins are good tanks right now, druids can't hold aggro and DK's have *** threat....wait til next patch I guess".

ESO promises to do away with this cycle of nerfs/buffs/this is good at this for this time because the patch notes.

Now it's "I feel like tanking. I will get a sword and shield and try it out." Doesn't matter what class you are, your class chassis should be able to validate and support this decision.

Ravinsild

Draconiuos wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

Any MMO that relies on Alts to keep it going is already in trouble.

I guess wow has been in trouble since 2005 then! What a stupid statement.

WoW, has relied on End Game content, Arenas, and Xpacs to keep it going.

Is that why they have so many catch up mechanisms for leveling alts like Bind on Account everything, Heirlooms to get like +55% extra XP, instant level 90's buyable in the store etc...?

Since Wrath of the Lich King they've been making it easier and easier to make more than one character. I had 14 level 90's in Mists of Pandaria.

Alts are the bread and butter that make Arenas, Xpacs and End Game content work. Get tired of your Warrior you've been playing forever? No problem, don't quit the game, make an alt! It's easy, now experience the same gameplay as: Ranged DPS, Ranged Healer, Caster DPS, Physical DPS, a different type of tank and so much more!

They make it easier to see their content through different points of view.

Sleepydan

Dear investors.

I would like I give my money to a game company that has a vision and sticks to its own balance goals and objectives.

I would like to pay money to play a game that doesn't hold court with anonymous backseat developers on the internet.


Can't you let somebody, someone make a game and run it based on their vision and not sigma6 power phrases or subscription "suicide" threats.

Stop trying to milk everybody. I've got ***, milk me


Regards

- Sleepydan

Solomon_Cato

Ravinsild wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

Any MMO that relies on Alts to keep it going is already in trouble.

I guess wow has been in trouble since 2005 then! What a stupid statement.

WoW, has relied on End Game content, Arenas, and Xpacs to keep it going.

Is that why they have so many catch up mechanisms for leveling alts like Bind on Account everything, Heirlooms to get like +55% extra XP, instant level 90's buyable in the store etc...?

Since Wrath of the Lich King they've been making it easier and easier to make more than one character. I had 14 level 90's in Mists of Pandaria.

Alts are the bread and butter that make Arenas, Xpacs and End Game content work. Get tired of your Warrior you've been playing forever? No problem, don't quit the game, make an alt! It's easy, now experience the same gameplay as: Ranged DPS, Ranged Healer, Caster DPS, Physical DPS, a different type of tank and so much more!

They make it easier to see their content through different points of view.

I really like your statement here. I played WoW up until the middle of Cata with 5 85s. Truly a logical point about making it easier to view the game in different ways.

Where I think people are getting upset (besides all of the balancing/bug fixing) is that ESO promised this in an expanded way. What ESO promised was a system where you could experience the different play styles without having to change classes, but still allowing you to have the option of rerolling a completely new class. People are just confused at the current moment because things truly are not that balanced at this time. IT IS hard to make a melee oriented build right now that is stamina based because the skills just are not up to par damage wise compared to some class skills. Weapon skills currently are limited to utility only, which I think is wrong due to the fact that your weapon is what you carry around. How could you call it a weapon if it is not a source of power?

We all know Nightblade needs some serious TLC, and honestly I think ALL passives IN ALL SKILL LINES could use some attention/confirmation that they are working properly. ZOS just is not very vocal about it, and it is upsetting people, which is understandable. Will they fix things? I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but it's just like taking a gamble; it makes your stomach drop right before you see the results. I like to think Zenimax has a lot at stake here, not just invested into this game, but for future titles as well (albeit I am no expert at this stuff).

P.S.
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Saltypretzels

i disagree with your statement that weapons are and should be weaker then class skills.

Therium104

Jarnhand wrote: »

A thing some people here need to accept, or stop playing ESO:
Not all classes will have good area damage!
Not all classes will have good single target damage!
Not all classes will be equally good at everything!
If they all had that, they would all be the same = boring game!
Accept that or move on, please!

I am pretty sure 99% of the player base do NOT want a game where all classes can do the same, then classes are just cosmetics, nothing more.

A NB should be king of single target damage, but should also be a soft target.
A sorc with desto staff should be king of area damage, but should also be a soft target.
A templar with resto staff should be king of healing, and should have medium to good survivability.
A DK with heavy armor and shield should be king of tanking, and should be hard to kill, but neither have best single target or area damage.

BUT due to now flexible ESO is, there can be a lot of mixing and non standard builds, which is very good. But do not expect all classes to be equally good in all roles, that is just now how it ever was meant to be, neither other MMOs.

Most weapon skill lines/stamina builds, sucks, this is common knowledge. Class skills are, and should be more powerful. If not, once again, all classes would be equally good at everything, since all classes got access to all weapon lines. But of course bugs needs to be fixed and skills balanced out.

Do not think all builds will be equally powerful, of course they will not be, this is simple logic, and true in all MMOs. The different skill lines have different function, thankfully, or once more; what would be the point of having several. And you have enough skill points by middle game to buy them all out, so you can mix and max as much as you want.

Also ESO is a game that heavily uses synergies and stacking. If you make a skill bar with few or none synergies, of course you will do worse then a good built skill bar. Once again, it should also be so. If anyone with no clue about the classes and skills could just slap random skills on the bar and pown everyone, the game would be horribly broken and made for toddlers. Shock and surprise; ESO is not like this!

No, I am not flaming or trolling, I am just saying it like it is. Many people that play ESO seem to come from the Elder Scrolls single player offline games, and this shows. Many have no clue about the mechanics and balancing of a MMO.

Forget what you know about gaming coming from single player games. A MMO is something TOTALLY DIFFERENT! It is not comparable!

So please stop with the "my class sucks at xxxxx, way worse then class xxxxx" threads. These kind of threads are pointless and just clutters up the forums. Zenimax should focus on sharpening the classes, not make them all equal!

Just accept that the classes are made for different purposes, they can not all be equally good at everything! These boards clearly shows that some people do not understand this, when they make threads like NBs not being as good tanks as DKs or do as good area damage as Sorcs. (Just two examples.)

Excellent post. You are much more diplomatic then me.

ArgonianAssassin

Traditional rogue/assassin archtype dual wield/medium armor is totally unviable as a nightblade, single target is trash and too squishy to even quest. This is garbage. Lost all will to level up past VR5

ahspear37

I guess my problem with this post is that it associates the desire for balances in classes as QQing. There's a HUGE difference between saying "F this game because ________ class isn't OP and you guys are being unfair!" and "It's undeniable that there are some balance issues that need to be addressed in order for every class to be a viable selection and for people to truly 'play the way they want'."

mblythe21b14_ESO

The Nightblade class needs to cut the fat. What I mean by that is there are a ton of abilities that are completely useless to the class. The class doesnt need to be like any other, it needs to be like a Nightblade.

Just cut the fat away and give it some muscle. Get rid of the cripple, drain power, summon shade, Path, Terror, Haste and Blur. They are all bad for a 5 ability game. Give the class multiple ways to do the same thing. I dont want my Nightblade to be like my Dragonknight, but I would sure like the flexibility of the Dragonknight to be in my Nightblade.

Dekkameron

My heavy armour, shield using, nightblade siphon tank is a very odd beast. but works superbly!

Chirru

Guppet wrote: »

Chirru wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Classes should be able to achieve the same goals, but should go about them in different way.

If they don't play differently, there's no point in different classes.

Your class in this game is your flavour. No point winging the lemon flavour you chose ain't as sweet as that strawberry one over there.

If you are not as good as another class at something it's because you will be better at something else. Enjoy those differences.

Not good at AoE, because you are a NB, then use that class unique ability, to turn invisible and avoid that large pack entirely.

Okay..give NB's 10 seconds invisibility instead of 2.5 secs and I am inclined to agree... But NO! that would make NB's over powered. I can already hear the screams... . the 2.5 second invisibility is a joke...no, it is a tragedy.

You do know that you can use cloak while already In Stealth and you can chain them one after the other so you can walk right through a pack and not aggro any?

You can do it about 4 or 5 times in a row, with no break in complete invisability. That's more than 10 seconds worth.

How are people not aware of this?

Ah...sorry for expressing myself so inadequate.
I do not wish to avoid mobs... I want to jump them - cloak and get away. This however does not work because a) 2.5 sec is too short and b) invisibility does not break combat.

Meaning...you can spam cloak until you run out of magicka ... become visible and, two miles from everyone, you are still in combat and can not stealth.

then you are without magicka for your class skills with four or five critters running after you. In dungeons you surely run smack into re-spawning critters and in PvP everyone can see you for ten miles.

so what is this crap of using a valuable resource (magicka) for a skill that is worth little to nothing.

Chirru

Therium104 wrote: »

Jarnhand wrote: »

A thing some people here need to accept, or stop playing ESO:
Not all classes will have good area damage!
Not all classes will have good single target damage!
Not all classes will be equally good at everything!
If they all had that, they would all be the same = boring game!
Accept that or move on, please!

I am pretty sure 99% of the player base do NOT want a game where all classes can do the same, then classes are just cosmetics, nothing more.

A NB should be king of single target damage, but should also be a soft target.
A sorc with desto staff should be king of area damage, but should also be a soft target.
A templar with resto staff should be king of healing, and should have medium to good survivability.
A DK with heavy armor and shield should be king of tanking, and should be hard to kill, but neither have best single target or area damage.

BUT due to now flexible ESO is, there can be a lot of mixing and non standard builds, which is very good. But do not expect all classes to be equally good in all roles, that is just now how it ever was meant to be, neither other MMOs.

Most weapon skill lines/stamina builds, sucks, this is common knowledge. Class skills are, and should be more powerful. If not, once again, all classes would be equally good at everything, since all classes got access to all weapon lines. But of course bugs needs to be fixed and skills balanced out.

Do not think all builds will be equally powerful, of course they will not be, this is simple logic, and true in all MMOs. The different skill lines have different function, thankfully, or once more; what would be the point of having several. And you have enough skill points by middle game to buy them all out, so you can mix and max as much as you want.

Also ESO is a game that heavily uses synergies and stacking. If you make a skill bar with few or none synergies, of course you will do worse then a good built skill bar. Once again, it should also be so. If anyone with no clue about the classes and skills could just slap random skills on the bar and pown everyone, the game would be horribly broken and made for toddlers. Shock and surprise; ESO is not like this!

No, I am not flaming or trolling, I am just saying it like it is. Many people that play ESO seem to come from the Elder Scrolls single player offline games, and this shows. Many have no clue about the mechanics and balancing of a MMO.

Forget what you know about gaming coming from single player games. A MMO is something TOTALLY DIFFERENT! It is not comparable!

So please stop with the "my class sucks at xxxxx, way worse then class xxxxx" threads. These kind of threads are pointless and just clutters up the forums. Zenimax should focus on sharpening the classes, not make them all equal!

Just accept that the classes are made for different purposes, they can not all be equally good at everything! These boards clearly shows that some people do not understand this, when they make threads like NBs not being as good tanks as DKs or do as good area damage as Sorcs. (Just two examples.)

Excellent post. You are much more diplomatic then me.

No not excellent post...some good points so...

I wonder if you guys ever did see a Ninja Assassin movie? Azumi (Japanese film) shows best what assassins are like in my opinion.

Assassins are not squishy at all. They are well trained stealth specialist and very skilled in hitting hard and escaping after that. If cornered they fight like mad and kill anything that comes into their way. Scores of dead bodies.

however, for the sake of peace... if a squishy assassin then one who actually can hit and run. Not someone who has no other option then to face three or four enemies with a lousy heal that eats all the Magicka the assassin needs to hit anything with some success. Dual weapon tree is so lousy it is almost beyond believe. Talking about melee here and not a staff wielding half sorcerer, or a wannabe Ranger with no Bow Class skills.

Tell me this... why does medium armor give stamina benefit if all class skills are magicka based. Indeed, any NB build not based on plenty of magicka has no chance of survival because you need this stuff to heal yourself because the NB is so squishy it would not last 5 seconds without the heal... well the NB does not last 5 seconds anyhow if faced with more then two opponents... and you need the stuff to hit really hard.

And do not tell me this is Not true and that I am a lousy player. I tried it out many times. All is okay if I face three lower level NPC's... get three same level ones and ...oh.... re-spawn at the nearest spawn-point. Bugger...must i out-level every dungeon by 2-3 levels to survive as a NB when I see many lower-level classes having a ball steamrolling everything?

Either give the NB the ability to survive fights as the other classes do... or give NB the ability to run successfully. At the moment NB's have neither ability. We are truly outclassed by every other class...even the NPC's laugh at NB's.

Guppet

Chirru wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Chirru wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Classes should be able to achieve the same goals, but should go about them in different way.

If they don't play differently, there's no point in different classes.

Your class in this game is your flavour. No point winging the lemon flavour you chose ain't as sweet as that strawberry one over there.

If you are not as good as another class at something it's because you will be better at something else. Enjoy those differences.

Not good at AoE, because you are a NB, then use that class unique ability, to turn invisible and avoid that large pack entirely.

Okay..give NB's 10 seconds invisibility instead of 2.5 secs and I am inclined to agree... But NO! that would make NB's over powered. I can already hear the screams... . the 2.5 second invisibility is a joke...no, it is a tragedy.

You do know that you can use cloak while already In Stealth and you can chain them one after the other so you can walk right through a pack and not aggro any?

You can do it about 4 or 5 times in a row, with no break in complete invisability. That's more than 10 seconds worth.

How are people not aware of this?

Ah...sorry for expressing myself so inadequate.
I do not wish to avoid mobs... I want to jump them - cloak and get away. This however does not work because a) 2.5 sec is too short and b) invisibility does not break combat.

Meaning...you can spam cloak until you run out of magicka ... become visible and, two miles from everyone, you are still in combat and can not stealth.

then you are without magicka for your class skills with four or five critters running after you. In dungeons you surely run smack into re-spawning critters and in PvP everyone can see you for ten miles.

so what is this crap of using a valuable resource (magicka) for a skill that is worth little to nothing.

I was not meaning to say how did YOU not know that. Was more how is it not common practice. I have never seen anyone else doing it.

Was not meant offensively to you at all, very hard to convey the tone sometimes, sorry

Tannakaobi

Having read most of the comments in this thread it has become apparent that what the op really wants is the game to be easier and doesn't even know it.

With there being no global cooldowns, how could you possibly slip back into stealth? That would make the entire game pointless and not even worth playing. But on top of that you also want to kill a mob of 3 super quick.

If you want a game that is so easy it's not worth playing, I have a suggestion and it begins with W....

Tannakaobi

Chirru wrote: »

Tell me this... why does medium armor give stamina benefit if all class skills are magicka based. Indeed, any NB build not based on plenty of magicka has no chance of survival because you need this stuff to heal yourself because the NB is so squishy it would not last 5 seconds without the heal... well the NB does not last 5 seconds anyhow if faced with more then two opponents... and you need the stuff to hit really hard.

And do not tell me this is Not true and that I am a lousy player. I tried it out many times. All is okay if I face three lower level NPC's... get three same level ones and ...oh.... re-spawn at the nearest spawn-point. Bugger...must i out-level every dungeon by 2-3 levels to survive as a NB when I see many lower-level classes having a ball steamrolling everything?

So, you want people to lie to you then? Go and google NB builds, not only do I take on mobs a couple of levels above me, but I also have to pull more than one mob at a time as often as possible to keep my ultimate up. Granted I'm not playing a stealthy style but still, I am in medium armor though.

All my points are in health and nearly all my armor is boosting stamina. The only thing I use magic for is Funnel Health, Killer's Blade and Shadowy Disguise. The only reason I use Shadowy Disguise is to boost stamina using the passive. I was using Swallow Souls, but I found it to be overkill. Other than that I use Stampede, Carve, block, interrupt, attack and of course Veil of Blades. My whole spec is designed around using Veil of Blades as often as possible.

With Veil of Blades and Shadowy Disguise I don't even have to do anything else other than stand there watching them die without them even hitting me. I don't do that as it wouldn't built ultimate but I could.

But the point is this, other than a few passives not quite right NB are awesome in a verity of roles. Once the passives are fixed the nerf brigade will be out with their pitch forks.