To all people who make posts like "my class sucks at xxxxx, way worse then class xxxxx"

Jarnhand

A thing some people here need to accept, or stop playing ESO:
Not all classes will have good area damage!
Not all classes will have good single target damage!
Not all classes will be equally good at everything!
If they all had that, they would all be the same = boring game!
Accept that or move on, please!

I am pretty sure 99% of the player base do NOT want a game where all classes can do the same, then classes are just cosmetics, nothing more.

A NB should be king of single target damage, but should also be a soft target.
A sorc with desto staff should be king of area damage, but should also be a soft target.
A templar with resto staff should be king of healing, and should have medium to good survivability.
A DK with heavy armor and shield should be king of tanking, and should be hard to kill, but neither have best single target or area damage.

BUT due to now flexible ESO is, there can be a lot of mixing and non standard builds, which is very good. But do not expect all classes to be equally good in all roles, that is just now how it ever was meant to be, neither other MMOs.

Most weapon skill lines/stamina builds, sucks, this is common knowledge. Class skills are, and should be more powerful. If not, once again, all classes would be equally good at everything, since all classes got access to all weapon lines. But of course bugs needs to be fixed and skills balanced out.

Do not think all builds will be equally powerful, of course they will not be, this is simple logic, and true in all MMOs. The different skill lines have different function, thankfully, or once more; what would be the point of having several. And you have enough skill points by middle game to buy them all out, so you can mix and max as much as you want.

Also ESO is a game that heavily uses synergies and stacking. If you make a skill bar with few or none synergies, of course you will do worse then a good built skill bar. Once again, it should also be so. If anyone with no clue about the classes and skills could just slap random skills on the bar and pown everyone, the game would be horribly broken and made for toddlers. Shock and surprise; ESO is not like this!

No, I am not flaming or trolling, I am just saying it like it is. Many people that play ESO seem to come from the Elder Scrolls single player offline games, and this shows. Many have no clue about the mechanics and balancing of a MMO.

Forget what you know about gaming coming from single player games. A MMO is something TOTALLY DIFFERENT! It is not comparable!

So please stop with the "my class sucks at xxxxx, way worse then class xxxxx" threads. These kind of threads are pointless and just clutters up the forums. Zenimax should focus on sharpening the classes, not make them all equal!

Just accept that the classes are made for different purposes, they can not all be equally good at everything! These boards clearly shows that some people do not understand this, when they make threads like NBs not being as good tanks as DKs or do as good area damage as Sorcs. (Just two examples.)

Mr Bo Jingles

Finally somebody said this.

Nox_Aeterna

I want an ESO employee to come here , and agree with you.

Then i will go unsub and leave the game , it is that simple.

Until they come here and say that , I WILL KEEP COMPLAINING till they balance this.

When we started playing they said class would not matter , fine , make it happen , or see players that wanted it to leave their game.

I had no tag saying i had to be a DK to be the best tank at the game start , and you can bet im not lvling one now.

KleanZlate

I agree 100%. I'm playing as NB at veteran level and it all comes down to ability combos to survive. It is hard as hell and for me that makes the game more engaging. Having played through the whole of the story and still having to learn new ability combinations to survive is pretty awesome IMO. Being in a guild and having someone to help out every once and a while doesn't hurt either.

Jarnhand

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

I want an ESO employee to come here , and agree with you.

Then i will go unsub and leave the game , it is that simple.

Until they come here and say that , I WILL KEEP COMPLAINING till they balance this.

When we started playing they said class would not matter , fine , make it happen , or see players that wanted it to leave their game.

I had no tag saying i had to be a DK to be the best tank at the game start , and you can bet im not lvling one now.

Where has Zenimax ever said classes does not matter, and they all have same ability to fill any role? Please post link!

Tannakaobi

Jarnhand wrote: »

A thing some people here need to accept, or stop playing ESO:
Not all classes will have good area damage!
Well, actually they all do. It just depends on how you build them, ESO is about options.
Not all classes will have good single target damage!
Er... See above, same reply.
Not all classes will be equally good at everything!
The difference is the skill of the players. But remember the game is new, there will be balance issues and there will be changes.
If they all had that, they would all be the same = boring game!
Accept that or move on, please!
More to the point, accept that the game will have problems and skills will be changed to add balance. An ever ongoing process, accept that or move on.

I am pretty sure 99% of the player base do NOT want a game where all classes can do the same, then classes are just cosmetics, nothing more.
No, but people want a well balanced game. Balance does not mean the same as.

A NB should be king of single target damage, but should also be a soft target.
My NB does imense AOE damege better than most people around me.
A sorc with desto staff should be king of area damage, but should also be a soft target.
Why would it be a soft target if it's in full heavy armor gear?
A templar with resto staff should be king of healing, and should have medium to good survivability.
Well duh!
A DK with heavy armor and shield should be king of tanking, and should be hard to kill, but neither have best single target or area damage.
Again you point out the obvious but ignore the options. What about a duel wielding DK, what should they be? Nothing is set in stone, that why they have open classes.

BUT due to now flexible ESO is, there can be a lot of mixing and non standard builds, which is very good. But do not expect all classes to be equally good in all roles, that is just now how it ever was meant to be, neither other MMOs.
I fail to see the limitations, it would be easier if you told me what can't be done and I will tell you how it can be.

Most weapon skill lines/stamina builds, sucks, this is common knowledge. Class skills are, and should be more powerful. If not, once again, all classes would be equally good at everything, since all classes got access to all weapon lines. But of course bugs needs to be fixed and skills balanced out.
I don't think any skill lines suck. Maybe with the ecception of staffs, but even that comes down to a simple it's not my thing, if it was I'm sure I could make it good.

Do not think all builds will be equally powerful, of course they will not be, this is simple logic, and true in all MMOs. The different skill lines have different function, thankfully, or once more; what would be the point of having several. And you have enough skill points by middle game to buy them all out, so you can mix and max as much as you want.
The simple fact is that some people will be better than others no matter what classes are chosen. This does not mean that changes do not need to be made. As I said above, it's an ongoing process.

Also ESO is a game that heavily uses synergies and stacking. If you make a skill bar with few or none synergies, of course you will do worse then a good built skill bar. Once again, it should also be so. If anyone with no clue about the classes and skills could just slap random skills on the bar and pown everyone, the game would be horribly broken and made for toddlers. Shock and surprise; ESO is not like this!
Aye, I agree.

No, I am not flaming or trolling, I am just saying it like it is. Many people that play ESO seem to come from the Elder Scrolls single player offline games, and this shows. Many have no clue about the mechanics and balancing of a MMO.

Forget what you know about gaming coming from single player games. A MMO is something TOTALLY DIFFERENT! It is not comparable!
To be honest almost all the criticism is coming from the mmo fans. ESO does not fit with their previous experience therefore it must be broken. All I have seen from single player gamers is, wow this is great and it's hard.

So please stop with the "my class sucks at xxxxx, way worse then class xxxxx" threads. These kind of threads are pointless and just clutters up the forums. Zenimax should focus on sharpening the classes, not make them all equal!
I fail to see your point. You claim to be an experienced mmo player. Every mmo I have played has people crying for nerfs because they can't play the game, yet you blame the single players that TES has pulled into the mmo community.

Just accept that the classes are made for different purposes, they can not all be equally good at everything! These boards clearly shows that some people do not understand this, when they make threads like NBs not being as good tanks as DKs or do as good area damage as Sorcs. (Just two examples.)
I honestly don't think you understand what people are saying. Every mmo has balance issues, to deny that is as bad as to just cry nerf. Are you suggesting that people were wrong to point out the obvoiuse floors in the Vampire build? Or the problems with the NB passives?

I am going to repeat myself to finish - Balance does not mean the same as!

Uviryth

After reading some of the threads in this forum I found out the following facts (according to the community)

Templar is underpowered
Sorcerer is pigeonholed and underpowered
DK is underpowered and looks bad while being underpowered
Nightblade is undepowered, pigeonholed and bugged

Yeah, sounds about right for a mmo-community.

Sleepydan

This just reminds me why I wish there were no classes from jump street.


Wouldn't people look at the skill trees and build around their ideas, instead of picking based on the projection of a theme?

It's like a true free choice skill selection is to classes what a straight in poker is to an inside straight.

Uviryth

A game without classes sounds even more boring than a game with only 4 classes.

Erock25

Jarnhand wrote: »

A NB should be king of single target damage, but should also be a soft target.
A sorc with desto staff should be king of area damage, but should also be a soft target.
A templar with resto staff should be king of healing, and should have medium to good survivability.
A DK with heavy armor and shield should be king of tanking, and should be hard to kill, but neither have best single target or area damage.

Your whole post is garbage because the very premise behind it, is not true.

Jarnhand

Erock25 wrote: »

Jarnhand wrote: »

A NB should be king of single target damage, but should also be a soft target.
A sorc with desto staff should be king of area damage, but should also be a soft target.
A templar with resto staff should be king of healing, and should have medium to good survivability.
A DK with heavy armor and shield should be king of tanking, and should be hard to kill, but neither have best single target or area damage.

Your whole post is garbage because the very premise behind it, is not true.

Then show me where Zenimax has stated otherwise. If not this is how it is in 'all' MMOs with classes; they all have defined primary roles. As I said in EOS they can actually mix alot, but there still is a primary design behind each and every class. This is not Elder Scrolls, this is ESO with defined classes.

Chirru

to original poster
Just Google 'Nightblade defeating Balreth and after that still tell me the melee skills and the NB class is not broken. as you rightly pointed out: "Quote "Most weapon skill lines/stamina builds, sucks, this is common knowledge." end of quote

Why do weapon skill lines...as You put it, suck? Weapons ought to be the most powerful attack lines (exception mages). What did they do? Made magicka based class skills the most powerful way to attack so that you run quickly out of magicka (because you are NOT a mage and wear heavy armor) and do crap damage. Go and watch some videos.

I give you another example. Nightblade dual weapon skill Rapid Strikes does at level 14 ...5 times 19 damage and one time 50 damage... that is all... add it up. My two swords each do 37 damage. Add that up. plus 50 damage on top. Yes, I know the offhand does less damage...but not if you put skill points into the off-hand weapon

okay..my calculator says: 5x19 + 50 = 145 that is the actual damage of rapid strike. my calculator also says: 5x 37 + 50 = 235...however, all I get is 145? Why the difference in plain weapon skills. Of course..if you use magicka based class skills you get more. I however wish to play a melee fighter and NOT a mage and pure Melee fighters are not valid builds at the moment. Why?

No, people will not shut up until these imbalances are fixed. However much you wish people to shout " this is a great game! " I for one will not shut up because at the moment ESO is not a great game. it is a good game...sort of average in many aspects... but it is NOT a great game until things that are broken and unbalanced are fixed. Yes, I want a melee fighter doing the same damage as a mage...just in another way and without spells that need magicka.

You do not wish classes to be equal... well guess what... in the veteran areas and heavy PvP Zergs only the best classes are being played and they are: Vampire Sorc and Vampire DK. what a cookie-cutter game. The Emperors are Vampires... tell me why. Because all classes are so great to play? No, not all classes are equal in damage output and pure melee is not even on the radar. So lets stop the crap and FIX THINGS

Draconiuos

Jarnhand wrote: »

A thing some people here need to accept, or stop playing ESO:
Not all classes will have good area damage!
Not all classes will have good single target damage!
Not all classes will be equally good at everything!
If they all had that, they would all be the same = boring game!
Accept that or move on, please!

I am pretty sure 99% of the player base do NOT want a game where all classes can do the same, then classes are just cosmetics, nothing more.

A NB should be king of single target damage, but should also be a soft target.
A sorc with desto staff should be king of area damage, but should also be a soft target.
A templar with resto staff should be king of healing, and should have medium to good survivability.
A DK with heavy armor and shield should be king of tanking, and should be hard to kill, but neither have best single target or area damage.

BUT due to now flexible ESO is, there can be a lot of mixing and non standard builds, which is very good. But do not expect all classes to be equally good in all roles, that is just now how it ever was meant to be, neither other MMOs.

Most weapon skill lines/stamina builds, sucks, this is common knowledge. Class skills are, and should be more powerful. If not, once again, all classes would be equally good at everything, since all classes got access to all weapon lines. But of course bugs needs to be fixed and skills balanced out.

Do not think all builds will be equally powerful, of course they will not be, this is simple logic, and true in all MMOs. The different skill lines have different function, thankfully, or once more; what would be the point of having several. And you have enough skill points by middle game to buy them all out, so you can mix and max as much as you want.

Also ESO is a game that heavily uses synergies and stacking. If you make a skill bar with few or none synergies, of course you will do worse then a good built skill bar. Once again, it should also be so. If anyone with no clue about the classes and skills could just slap random skills on the bar and pown everyone, the game would be horribly broken and made for toddlers. Shock and surprise; ESO is not like this!

No, I am not flaming or trolling, I am just saying it like it is. Many people that play ESO seem to come from the Elder Scrolls single player offline games, and this shows. Many have no clue about the mechanics and balancing of a MMO.

Forget what you know about gaming coming from single player games. A MMO is something TOTALLY DIFFERENT! It is not comparable!

So please stop with the "my class sucks at xxxxx, way worse then class xxxxx" threads. These kind of threads are pointless and just clutters up the forums. Zenimax should focus on sharpening the classes, not make them all equal!

Just accept that the classes are made for different purposes, they can not all be equally good at everything! These boards clearly shows that some people do not understand this, when they make threads like NBs not being as good tanks as DKs or do as good area damage as Sorcs. (Just two examples.)

I have to disagree. From the start ZOS said you can play how you want to play and that all skill lines were suppose to be viable to use. Saying a person has to use their class skill lines goes against that very thing. Yes DKs will have more tools to be survivable, but only if they use the class skills. Yes mages will have some more AOE options if they use their class skills. Yes, NB will have more high damage single target option if they use their class skills. Yes, Templars will have more healing options if they use their class skills. The fact is doesn't mean the other skill lines should be inferior to the class skill lines. Personally at first I thought having classes wouldn't matter much, but the player base is starting to base everything around class skill lines and are ignoring everything else.

Guppet

Classes should be able to achieve the same goals, but should go about them in different way.

If they don't play differently, there's no point in different classes.

Your class in this game is your flavour. No point winging the lemon flavour you chose ain't as sweet as that strawberry one over there.

If you are not as good as another class at something it's because you will be better at something else. Enjoy those differences.

Not good at AoE, because you are a NB, then use that class unique ability, to turn invisible and avoid that large pack entirely.

Jarnhand

Draconiuos wrote: »

I have to disagree. From the start ZOS said you can play how you want to play and that all skill lines were suppose to be viable to use. Saying a person has to use their class skill lines goes against that very thing. Yes DKs will have more tools to be survivable, but only if they use the class skills. Yes mages will have some more AOE options if they use their class skills. Yes, NB will have more high damage single target option if they use their class skills. Yes, Templars will have more healing options if they use their class skills. The fact is doesn't mean the other skill lines should be inferior to the class skill lines. Personally at first I thought having classes wouldn't matter much, but the player base is starting to base everything around class skill lines and are ignoring everything else.

So what do you want? Weapon skill lines to be equal powerful as class lines, so everyone run around using for example swords? How boring would that be?!

Yes, weapon lines need to be fixed, but class skill, the skill lines that define the different classes, should be more tempting to use. Or there is no point in classes, then classes are just cosmetics.

It is already becoming kinda lame with 'everyone' running around with Destruction staff...

Chirru

Guppet wrote: »

Classes should be able to achieve the same goals, but should go about them in different way.

If they don't play differently, there's no point in different classes.

Your class in this game is your flavour. No point winging the lemon flavour you chose ain't as sweet as that strawberry one over there.

If you are not as good as another class at something it's because you will be better at something else. Enjoy those differences.

Not good at AoE, because you are a NB, then use that class unique ability, to turn invisible and avoid that large pack entirely.

Okay..give NB's 10 seconds invisibility instead of 2.5 secs and I am inclined to agree... But NO! that would make NB's over powered. I can already hear the screams... . the 2.5 second invisibility is a joke...no, it is a tragedy.

Draconiuos

Jarnhand wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

I have to disagree. From the start ZOS said you can play how you want to play and that all skill lines were suppose to be viable to use. Saying a person has to use their class skill lines goes against that very thing. Yes DKs will have more tools to be survivable, but only if they use the class skills. Yes mages will have some more AOE options if they use their class skills. Yes, NB will have more high damage single target option if they use their class skills. Yes, Templars will have more healing options if they use their class skills. The fact is doesn't mean the other skill lines should be inferior to the class skill lines. Personally at first I thought having classes wouldn't matter much, but the player base is starting to base everything around class skill lines and are ignoring everything else.

So what do you want? Weapon skill lines to be equal powerful as class lines, so everyone run around using for example swords? How boring would that be?!

Yes, weapon lines need to be fixed, but class skill, the skill lines that define the different classes, should be more tempting to use. Or there is no point in classes, then classes are just cosmetics.

It is already becoming kinda lame with 'everyone' running around with Destruction staff...

No, class skill lines shouldn't be more powerful. They said from the start that every skill line should be viable. I never said ever class should have skill lines that looked the same, but I think you are just being purposely thick about this. I would have been just fine if they would have not put classes in the game, and I think a lot of people would have been fine with that.

Guppet

Chirru wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Classes should be able to achieve the same goals, but should go about them in different way.

If they don't play differently, there's no point in different classes.

Your class in this game is your flavour. No point winging the lemon flavour you chose ain't as sweet as that strawberry one over there.

If you are not as good as another class at something it's because you will be better at something else. Enjoy those differences.

Not good at AoE, because you are a NB, then use that class unique ability, to turn invisible and avoid that large pack entirely.

Okay..give NB's 10 seconds invisibility instead of 2.5 secs and I am inclined to agree... But NO! that would make NB's over powered. I can already hear the screams... . the 2.5 second invisibility is a joke...no, it is a tragedy.

You do know that you can use cloak while already In Stealth and you can chain them one after the other so you can walk right through a pack and not aggro any?

You can do it about 4 or 5 times in a row, with no break in complete invisability. That's more than 10 seconds worth.

How are people not aware of this?

Jarnhand

A MMO without classes is a tricky subject, and I am pretty sure companies even thinking about making a MMO have done researches into the subject. And scraped the idea...

A MMO is a ongoing product, and it is fueled by money, steady income of money. I am pretty sure, but I of course do not know I do not research the subject, that a MMO without classes will die faster.

Reason is that it is almost pointless in rerolling another toon. If there are no classes and all can choose skills, all you need is a respec (and it would be garanteed such a thing would exist in such a game), and you had a new character.

And if there was no reason to reroll, people would be bored faster, and leave earlier = game dies earlier.

Running a MMO is not a hobby, its big business. If there isnt money in it, it aint never even gonna get started.

To make a MMO takes big money, and to get that money they need investors, and to get investors they need a selling concept.

Xnemesis

Jarnhand wrote: »

A thing some people here need to accept, or stop playing ESO:
Not all classes will have good area damage!
Not all classes will have good single target damage!
Not all classes will be equally good at everything!
If they all had that, they would all be the same = boring game!
Accept that or move on, please!

I am pretty sure 99% of the player base do NOT want a game where all classes can do the same, then classes are just cosmetics, nothing more.

A NB should be king of single target damage, but should also be a soft target.
A sorc with desto staff should be king of area damage, but should also be a soft target.
A templar with resto staff should be king of healing, and should have medium to good survivability.
A DK with heavy armor and shield should be king of tanking, and should be hard to kill, but neither have best single target or area damage.

BUT due to now flexible ESO is, there can be a lot of mixing and non standard builds, which is very good. But do not expect all classes to be equally good in all roles, that is just now how it ever was meant to be, neither other MMOs.

Most weapon skill lines/stamina builds, sucks, this is common knowledge. Class skills are, and should be more powerful. If not, once again, all classes would be equally good at everything, since all classes got access to all weapon lines. But of course bugs needs to be fixed and skills balanced out.

Do not think all builds will be equally powerful, of course they will not be, this is simple logic, and true in all MMOs. The different skill lines have different function, thankfully, or once more; what would be the point of having several. And you have enough skill points by middle game to buy them all out, so you can mix and max as much as you want.

Also ESO is a game that heavily uses synergies and stacking. If you make a skill bar with few or none synergies, of course you will do worse then a good built skill bar. Once again, it should also be so. If anyone with no clue about the classes and skills could just slap random skills on the bar and pown everyone, the game would be horribly broken and made for toddlers. Shock and surprise; ESO is not like this!

No, I am not flaming or trolling, I am just saying it like it is. Many people that play ESO seem to come from the Elder Scrolls single player offline games, and this shows. Many have no clue about the mechanics and balancing of a MMO.

Forget what you know about gaming coming from single player games. A MMO is something TOTALLY DIFFERENT! It is not comparable!

So please stop with the "my class sucks at xxxxx, way worse then class xxxxx" threads. These kind of threads are pointless and just clutters up the forums. Zenimax should focus on sharpening the classes, not make them all equal!

Just accept that the classes are made for different purposes, they can not all be equally good at everything! These boards clearly shows that some people do not understand this, when they make threads like NBs not being as good tanks as DKs or do as good area damage as Sorcs. (Just two examples.)

I agree with your posts but the balance has not been achieved. Currently the one hand shield weapon line is the most powerful weapon skill line whadafuk? Next when a mage, Templar, or DK can burn down three enemies as quick or quicker than I can burn down one enemy there is a problem. That means they are producing the same amount of DPS per target as I am. I should have high enough sustained single target DPS as a nightblade that when engaged against the same pack of enemies I should be able to finish them all off as quick as a guy who comes in and just AoEs. DKs are just using immoveable running in talons, standard, drain if vamp, then bash spam. They do this all while blocking mind you as well and the enemies die in like 4-5 seconds. As a NB I have to charge in use two siphoning abilities just to survive. Kill one very quickly 12 sec cc on the other and then take 3-4 seconds to kill the next add then move on to the last one for another 3-4 seconds. This is just crazy, so that's a total of 10-12 seconds to kill one pack of three adds while other classes do this in 5-6 or less. Mages and Templars are in a similar boat as DKs. If I am a ST specialist then I should be able to spend say 5-7 seconds using CC and a combination of other abilities just to have decent single target dps and finish a 3 pack, if a guy who can pop one CD and then aoe them down in 5 seconds.

Currently NB's do nothing special and fill no role another class cant fill better. NB's are broken and need to be fixed as well as all the weapon skill lines need to be revamped to be brought in line with eachother.

Xnemesis

Guppet wrote: »

Not good at AoE, because you are a NB, then use that class unique ability, to turn invisible and avoid that large pack entirely.

Then give me some EXP for sneaking past them

Zerl

What a gargantuan post that essentially is complaining about complaining...

Now I'll admit, that I did not read the entirety of the OP (as after reading a couple of paragraphs it just didn't seem worth it to continue). But to simply brand all complaints with the same label is rather naive.

Whilst there are plenty of posts that are complaining for the sake of doing so, there are also those that are complaining with very valid reason(s).

Take the whole Dual Wield Nightblade issue...

There are many people (myself included) that chose this approach to playing because they wanted to play an assassin-esque style character. A "crit-w***ing brittle character who's means of survivability is to not get hit, with an emphasis on single target (burst) DPS.

Now whilst this approach is "playable", the bugs currently in both the DW and NB tree are primarily in the skills/ passives that are fundamental for this build. This has an adverse effect on the capability of this build and can leave players whom were looking forward to playing feeling rather disappointed.

Sure you can say "well, just use X build and you should be fine!", but that goes against the whole "Play it your Way" approach that Zeni have advertised.

Guppet

Xnemesis wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Not good at AoE, because you are a NB, then use that class unique ability, to turn invisible and avoid that large pack entirely.

Then give me some EXP for sneaking past them

In VR content, they give very very little xp. the amount you lost, you can make up with the free time you have saved by not having to kill them.

You don't have to kill all mobs in VR content, not like in 1-49 where you would be under levelled if you used the ability to sneak.

Just sneak past and laugh at those DK's and Sorc's that cant do the same.

The NB is the sneaky class, that what it brings that others don't. If you don't want to be sneaky then why did you choose the class that practically screams "hello im the sneaky one".

Erock25

Jarnhand wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Jarnhand wrote: »

A NB should be king of single target damage, but should also be a soft target.
A sorc with desto staff should be king of area damage, but should also be a soft target.
A templar with resto staff should be king of healing, and should have medium to good survivability.
A DK with heavy armor and shield should be king of tanking, and should be hard to kill, but neither have best single target or area damage.

Your whole post is garbage because the very premise behind it, is not true.

Then show me where Zenimax has stated otherwise. If not this is how it is in 'all' MMOs with classes; they all have defined primary roles. As I said in EOS they can actually mix alot, but there still is a primary design behind each and every class. This is not Elder Scrolls, this is ESO with defined classes.

My point was the part of your post I quoted was incorrect. NB is not best single target and DK is not just the best tank but the best aoe dps as well.

Draconiuos

Jarnhand wrote: »

A MMO without classes is a tricky subject, and I am pretty sure companies even thinking about making a MMO have done researches into the subject. And scraped the idea...

A MMO is a ongoing product, and it is fueled by money, steady income of money. I am pretty sure, but I of course do not know I do not research the subject, that a MMO without classes will die faster.

Reason is that it is almost pointless in rerolling another toon. If there are no classes and all can choose skills, all you need is a respec (and it would be garanteed such a thing would exist in such a game), and you had a new character.

And if there was no reason to reroll, people would be bored faster, and leave earlier = game dies earlier.

Running a MMO is not a hobby, its big business. If there isnt money in it, it aint never even gonna get started.

To make a MMO takes big money, and to get that money they need investors, and to get investors they need a selling concept.

I would like to direct you attention to a little MMO called The Secret World. It is not a very large MMO, but it has thrived and done well for itself without classes. Skyrim arguably one of the most popular TES games had no classes. There is at least one more MMO out there that is classless, but its name escapes me right now. (And yes I know Skyrim wasn't a MMO, but it was still a RPG). Any MMO that relies on Alts to keep it going is already in trouble.

Guppet

Draconiuos wrote: »

Any MMO that relies on Alts to keep it going is already in trouble.

I guess wow has been in trouble since 2005 then! What a stupid statement.

Draconiuos

Guppet wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

Any MMO that relies on Alts to keep it going is already in trouble.

I guess wow has been in trouble since 2005 then! What a stupid statement.

WoW, has relied on End Game content, Arenas, and Xpacs to keep it going.

Nidwin

Chirru wrote: »

to original poster
You do not wish classes to be equal... well guess what... in the veteran areas and heavy PvP Zergs only the best classes are being played and they are: Vampire Sorc and Vampire DK. what a cookie-cutter game. The Emperors are Vampires... tell me why. Because all classes are so great to play? No, not all classes are equal in damage output and pure melee is not even on the radar. So lets stop the crap and FIX THINGS

Can we already judge AvA (RvR) after what, 6 weeks?

1. Some stuff that isn't working as expected, not working at all, or slightly out of balance needs to be fixed.
2. Most of us are still PVEing, Crafting, running around and fishing most of the time.
3. Nobody cares or give a damn about those Pokemons, your Vamps Sorc, DK and Emps. We'll deal with them, later on.

What I can already say is this.

In AvA/RvR it's going to be assisting melee trains that are going to rule. It's going to be ugly, very very ugly, trust me.

Group setup
2 Healers (Templars)
1 Tank (mdps DK Tank with pull)
2-3 mdps (NB's full dps specced)
1 Support (Templar -> buff, debuff, stamina regen, WW possible but needs to be tested/checked)

For the 8th spot probably a 2nd DK tank


My two cents of course

Tannakaobi

Oh my god, where has this myth that NB are no good at AOE come from?

Power Extraction - Twisting Path - Malefic Wreath - Dark Shades

All can be done while invisible, - Shadowy Disguise - Then there is the small matter of - Veil of Blades - one of the strongest AOE ultimate's in the game. Which can be used in almost every fight with the right build, sometimes two or three times. Also - Soul Tether - Is a good ultimate dealing AOE damage and stunning multiple targets.

All that without even looking at the other possibilities of using weapon skills.

Not to mention that NB are also one of the best classes for health regeneration/self healing.

Xnemesis

Guppet wrote: »

Xnemesis wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Not good at AoE, because you are a NB, then use that class unique ability, to turn invisible and avoid that large pack entirely.

Then give me some EXP for sneaking past them

In VR content, they give very very little xp. the amount you lost, you can make up with the free time you have saved by not having to kill them.

You don't have to kill all mobs in VR content, not like in 1-49 where you would be under levelled if you used the ability to sneak.

Just sneak past and laugh at those DK's and Sorc's that cant do the same.

The NB is the sneaky class, that what it brings that others don't. If you don't want to be sneaky then why did you choose the class that practically screams "hello im the sneaky one".

What? every class can sneak and I can go invis for 2.7 seconds and I'm still detectable with magelight so it is nothing special. If I stop to LOL at a DK because they have to kill the trash I left for them they will pass me because they will just mow through it and the mage will blink ahead of me. You must not be getting the point. Our ST damage is sub par..... weapon skill lines are borked when one hand shield is the best..... We have zero Ultimate generation compared to other clases.... WW is severly underpowered compared to Vamp even after the nerf. Lots of thing are funky and need to be fixed. Especially with NB.

Guppet

Draconiuos wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

Any MMO that relies on Alts to keep it going is already in trouble.

I guess wow has been in trouble since 2005 then! What a stupid statement.

WoW, has relied on End Game content, Arenas, and Xpacs to keep it going.

Its a game that encourages alts. Always has. Also you mentioned 2 MMO's (one that's niche and one you could not even remember the name of) that don't have classes. All other games allow alts, as a way to prolong gameplay.

Alts are content, sucessfull content, if the numbers of accounts with more than one character on are anything to go by. If you think a game encouraging alts is failing, you are deluded. It keeps people paying and playing.

I had 5 55's in SWTOR and 5 85's in Cataclysm. If I had not had the option to do alts, those games would have made significantly less money out of myself. I can't for one second imagine that's an uncommon situation.