Tom's Hardware Review

nidriks

Rotherhans wrote: »

The Dungeon copypasta is outrageous though, but I should´ve expected it too with this cursed console support.

I don't see why everyone says that. This isn't the first MMO to have done the same. SWTOR had a lot of similar dungeons.

Of course, they could have done every single one of the 130 odd mini-dungeons to be different. Of course we'd still be pre-alpha. They'd have spent most of their budget on making dungeons and the rest of the game would have suffered.

The dungeons suffice and people need to stop nit-picking over little things.

Besides, the dungeons that matter are the main ones, and I think they're nicely done. The mini-dungeons are just something to add a little extra in to the questing experience. They do a nice job of that. I, for one, enjoy running about with a few other people. It's nice to see lots of people in an MMO world.

I'm happy to look at both arguments, though, and I was hoping I'd see another mini dungeon similar to the one below the docks in Daggerfall - Bad Man's Hallows. That was a beautifully done mini dungeon and I really enjoyed it. It is rather sad that I've seen nothing similar since then. That was level 8, or so, and I'm now 30.

ZOS_MichelleA

Hi there, folks! We've had to edit or remove several posts from this thread. Please remember to be constructive and respectful when talking with other community members. Thank you!

Abigail

Hmmm ... how many generally positive reviews has this game had so far?

Each time someone posts one of these reviews there's a small army of the same people who're quick on the trigger in dismissing the review as irrelevant.

Fact is, I don't necessarily agree with everything said in each review, but I don't dismiss their impact on the game's market viability either. Face it, folks, ESO is flawed in many respects and its appeal probably is limited. For a triple-A title it's quickly becoming one of those niche games that a few people love to death and the majority shy away from in droves.

In balance, there are more things I like about ESO than things I don't, but the scales are not far in tipping in the negative direction. For instance, in combating bots the devs have literally thrown the baby out with the bathwater in several circumstances -- looting for motifs (I was never a serial re-logger) has become a futile activity. And in their desire to force us to use the much crippled trade system they've now imbalanced spawns of enchanting items to ridiculous proportions.

Y'all can continue with your blinders on, shilling for the game, but mounting negative reviews and knee-jerk decisions by the devs do not bode well.

mutharex

NEXT: MASTERCHEF REVIEWS TESO

Guys, stop posting troll reviews from nobody's and start asking yourself WHY you post this negative dribble. The problem isn't with TESO, it's with you.

BTW, MMORPG.COM review closes like this:

"In my eyes, Zenimax Online’s freshman effort is worth every penny, despite all-over-the-place reception from media and fans alike.
Elder Scrolls Online may not be for everyone. But I’m happy and proud to say it’s a game I can stand behind and support with my wallet. It strives to be different from the usual theme-park MMORPG, and it also faithfully represents the Elder Scrolls universe through lore and gameplay. ESO is an excellent MMORPG, with a lot to offer fans of The Elder Scrolls. It does need a few key refinements, but I will be subscribing for a good time to come, and I can’t wait to see how the game improves over time"

KariTR

Oh and another thing...considering the review is from a hardware site, it seems especially curious that the author had his gfx scaled all the way down to the very lowest of settings, so we get to see Tamriel being played in 'safety mode'.

So yeah Abigail, let's talk about shilling: Who do you think this guy is shilling for, hmm?

Shimond

Abigail wrote: »

Y'all can continue with your blinders on, shilling for the game, but mounting negative reviews and knee-jerk decisions by the devs do not bode well.

Reviews don't tend to matter in the long run. SWTOR got a lot of good reviews at release and look at where that ended up just 4-6 months in.

It's also still too early to say for sure exactly how the game's doing. It's barely passed the 30 day mark.

The quality of some of these more negative reviews has been less than impressive. I mean really, calling WOW a free to play game? Guy shouldn't be reviewing ANY MMOs.

mutharex

KariTR wrote: »

Oh and another thing...considering the review is from a hardware site, it seems especially curious that the author had his gfx scaled all the way down to the very lowest of settings, so we get to see Tamriel being played in 'safety mode'.

So yeah Abigail, let's talk about shilling: Who do you think this guy is shilling for, hmm?

There is a campaign to troll TESO, I think the champions in these are the folks at Massively, with a couple of exceptions (Jeff and another guy)

KariTR

SWTOR's a great MMO and deserved of good reviews. No idea how things were a few months in, but it is very healthy now - thriving playerbase that continues to grow, regular new content keeping the veterans happy etc.

Shimond

KariTR wrote: »

SWTOR's a great MMO and deserved of good reviews. No idea how things were a few months in, but it is very healthy now - thriving playerbase that continues to grow, regular new content keeping the veterans happy etc.

Not at launch it didn't. There's a pretty good reason it was a ghost town 6 months in and they had to fire over half their staff. I agree it's in a much better place now.

Abigail

We can speculate and quibble with one another all we want. Proof of the pudding will occur when AND if ZoS is compelled to take the game F2P (which I pray does not happen).

I really really really want to love this game, but I simply cannot get past the luke warm liking it stage. As absolutely every opinion given in this forum, that's a completely subjective statement, meaningless to anyone but me. I've rolled the dice on a 3-month subscription, but I'm still not terribly optimistic about the game's future in the context of being a subscription-based game.

mutharex

@Abigail can you explain what is the constructive value of these posts? Because I can't seem to find any except some generic run of the mill doom and glooming

Lalai

There are some points of the review I agree with (the spammers/botters, newbie island, and anchors bit).. some I don't. Particularly his little bit on dungeons. I've said this in another thread.. but the things he lists are not dungeons, they are delves. They are commonly (and erroneously) referred to as dungeons by the playerbase, but they are not dungeons. Comparing them to dungeons in other games is flat out wrong, they are more comparable to caves.

Dungeons are the things listed under the dungeon achievement tabs. They include both public dungeons (the group equivalent of a delve, which are not copy and pasted areas), and group dungeons (the instanced 4-man content). All of those are unique.

Also disagree with the whole "it doesn't get better" bit. I found that after getting off noob world the world opened up a lot more. I like gaining a lot of skills, which has expanded my gameplay, at level 12 group dungeons opened up and I love doing those, and the new ones as I level. Getting into Veteran content has also been pretty awesome for me.

As far as looks/voice acting/questing and such goes, I like them, I find them captivating. The thing that needs work (facial expressions) they've said they're working on. That's all just personal preference. Happens to fit mine.

Personally for reviews I tend to look at multiple sites. Metacritic is one of my favorites as it tends to have a mix. Critics on it so far are rating the game 72 out of 100, users give it a 6.2 out of 10. IGN gives it a 7.8. Trustedreviews gives it a 4/5. Gamespot gave it a 6, but user reviews on the site have it at a 7.2. Just to show a few examples. Honestly when I combine all the reviews I've seen and read, the average is about 7.5. Which seems on par. If you focus on only the negative reviews and keep posting those, of course your outlook for the game is going to be grim.

Just to add, I will always, always encourage people to try a game for themselves and then decide if they like it. Reviews are just ordinary people giving opinions. Their likes and dislikes may not match your own. They are also not representative of how well an MMO will actually do, because reviews don't match user opinion all the time (I wouldn't even say most of the time).

Abigail

@mutharex‌ Oh, okay, I don't march to the drum beat of the party line so I should shut up. Gotcha -- thank you for the reminder.

mutharex

Abigail wrote: »

@mutharex‌ Oh, okay, I don't march to the drum beat of the party line so I should shut up. Gotcha -- thank you for the reminder.

No, I didn't say that. I asked you what's the use of posts that refer to negative reviews from unknown sites and then says the game is doomed.
Are you familiar with the concept of 'constructive critic'?
Because this is something else. What can we do to help you?

reignfyre

While the tone of the article is a bit over the top, the message is spot on: this game is dull, dry, uninspired, and a chore to play. In every possible way. I seriously could not find one thing in this game that was fun, and I really tried. Made it to the 2nd big zone in DC (lol that I can't even name it-- wayrest?). I just can't be bothered to "clear" another map the way I did the first two.

PC launch was a cash grab off the popularity of MMOs and ES series.

Abigail

@mutharex As I've said multiple times, I like ESO; in sum, I find it more enjoyable than any MMO I've played recently. That said, I will NOT play it if it goes F2P.

There, with that out of the way I can say I find nothing useful in all the negative reviews because they dissuade potential players from subscribing to the game and that only militates against the game's remaining P2P.

But what would you do; censor all negative reviews? Negatively directed as they may be, positive constructs can still be taken from them. Alas, it's a bit late in the game's lifecycle for ZoS management to attempt any appeasement of the nay sayers, nor should it. The game is what it is, some obviously love it, warts and all; many will never play it; and some, like me, are sitting on the fence waiting to see if ZoS will patch the holes in its boat.

Xenrae

This review is nothing but a childish rant, as one of the comments said. After reading the first paragraph, the only reason anyone reads on is to feed their already disgruntled opinion.

Unfortunately, whatever good points this untalented reviewer could have made, easily got lost in the rant. Loot is in fact horrible; getting nothing for an anchor is ludicrous. Grouping is nothing at all like he described, but also not as good as it should be. Did he even participate in a four-man dungeon? And it's absolutely funny that he whined about not being able to beat mobs without effort. What?

But what he missed most of all, is that many of the players were looking for precisely what they got; broad expanses of wandering, beautiful scenery, long level times that preclude running out of content in four days. If he wants something like those other MMOs, why not just play those other MMOs?

Also conveniently missing is obvious work by Zeni to listen to the players and make changes to suit them. I guess this information wouldn't have catered to the writer's fan base. Sigh.

This need for every game to fit in a pre-determined box should really stop. I'm getting just what I expected, as are many others. Not every game is all things to all play styles, and thank chaos for that. Keep listening and updating, Zeni. Not all of us are frothing at the mouth for more pandas.

mutharex

Abigail wrote: »

@mutharex As I've said multiple times, I like ESO; in sum, I find it more enjoyable than any MMO I've played recently. That said, I will NOT play it if it goes F2P.

There, with that out of the way I can say I find nothing useful in all the negative reviews because they dissuade potential players from subscribing to the game and that only militates against the game's remaining P2P.

But what would you do; censer all negative reviews? Negatively directed as they may be, positive constructs can still be taken from them. Alas, it's a bit late in the game's lifecycle for ZoS management to attempt any appeasement of the nay sayers, nor should it. The game is what it is, some obviously love it, warts and all; many will never play it; and some, like me, are sitting on the fence waiting to see if ZoS will patch the holes in its boat.

No sorry, there is very little constructiveness in those reviews and they serve no purpose. They are poorly done reviews because they are shallow, concentrate on the negatives and are done by people that seem to be out of their waters.

Want an example of a good review? Read this and then we can talk:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/view/reviews/load/323/Very-Fun-But-Not-Perfect.html

Genomic

I think critical reviews serve a great purpose: identifying areas where a game can be improved.

The Tom's Hardware reviewer was fairly harsh, as I said, but I also feel he raised some very important issues. Issues that, if ignored, could be harmful to the games longevity. That's the value.

And no doubt he reviewed the game from his honest opinion, just as the mmorpg.com reviewer did, though they reached different conclusions. No conspiracy in either case (though you'll note both reviewers are being accused of such in the comments). I think it's important to look at all reviews, positive and negative.

As for me, I agree with another poster in this thread, the metacritic average score seems fair, and for good reason.

Genomic

Oh, and I posted the review link because a) He made some good points that I (and I'm quite sure many others) agree with and b) he was actually quite funny. Some of you are such ardent defenders you take any criticism of the game almost as a personal attack, and that's just sad.

Honn

Genomic wrote: »

Oh, and I posted the review link because a) He made some good points that I (and I'm quite sure many others) agree with and b) he was actually quite funny. Some of you are such ardent defenders you take any criticism of the game almost as a personal attack, and that's just sad.

Criticism is something given without bias & and having an open mind.
When you read the "review" you notice that he only got to level 20 and he does nothing but moan & gripe at a handful of points.
The whole "review" was nothing but negativity from start to finish. Hardly something you could read & believe it came from an open mind and without bias.

Thats not to say he didn't have some points, but IMO any little thing was overblown and really not worth my time considering as a "review".

Genomic

Yes, I agree that his review was overly harsh, as I said. And I'd agree the complaints are exaggerated by the reviewer. But still, exaggerated or not, the complaints he has mentioned nevertheless exist as real underlying issues and I think they need to be addressed or end up harming the game. And as Abigail mentioned, and no doubt just about everyone agrees with, I don't want to see this game become FTP. Although I'm afraid to say it seems to be following a similar path as SWTOR did pre and post-launch, and only addressing the valid criticisms, overblown or not, will prevent that.

And, BTW, I agree with you that an unbiased view is best, which is why I think the averaged metacritic review is the best representation of how the game is perceived in general. But even that isn't great at 72%. I think a lot more needs to be done.

The_Drexill

I guess I'll play the fanboy here... But I thought the review was pretty bad. I mean, it's ok to point out a flaw, but the trick is you also have to pull a comparison.

Like when he says there's 104 dungeons, and 70% are copy/paste... I mean, let's forget the fact that other MMO's *don't even have anywhere near 104 dungeons* but then also figure that the 31 odd dungeons that are unique is still *more than any other game on the market outside of WoW which has added them over a decade*.

His PvP review, if that's what you want to call it screamed "This isn't Call of Duty, waaah, where's my instant gratification binky!". Everything he said was invalid in that area.

I don't know... I guess it's another review from someone that really doesn't play games, let alone MMO's... that came in with some odd expectations and really never gets around to the point of what it is he was expecting. The voice actings bad... Ok, I guess if we want to split hairs there's like... maybe... one MMO out there with voice acting? Ok, I guess. There's *gasp* gold farmers and bots? Never saw that before, grab my pitchfork!

I mean really... the guy is completely out of touch with reality.

Morthur

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mutharex

Well then don't subscribe, problem solved

Morthur

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mutharex

Even if it was Hello Kitty Island Online would be easily the best MMO on the market, for me. Evidence points to this being true for a lot of people. You know, when I don't like something, I don't play it

Chryos

"I think some people are using LOL to mean "I disagree"."

Yeah, there are no negative reaction choices, trolls n such.

Morthur

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mutharex

Morthur wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Even if it was Hello Kitty Island Online would be easily the best MMO on the market, for me. Evidence points to this being true for a lot of people. You know, when I don't like something, I don't play it

Sure and I completely respect that your taste may simply be different or you may have completely different priorities then me when it comes to what you consider a good game. And in the end we will all be "voting" with our credit cards. I was just trying to point out that people that truly want this game to thrive should always remain critical of it and should strive for excellence instead of simply settling for "good enough". ;-)

You seem to think that there is only a market for wowclones and LCD-oriented games. I am sorry, there are a lot of different people out there, with different tastes. I am confident there is a large enough bunch of like-minded people who enjoy TESO BECAUSE of the things you seem to dislike.
Good like with your next game