50 feed cap on horses is not declared anywhere ingame.

WraithAzraiel

So wait, you want to be able to keep feeding your horse so it can rocket across a map in nothing flat?

temjiu

all things considered, im glad i came across this thread

Once you look at it from the perspective of leveling your horse, it makes sense. I didn't even connect the two....I was just plugging away, adding oats and apples and feed to my horse as i wanted. glad I know now...ill consider my 'leveling' a bit more now.

And it makes the more expensive horses a logical purchase now. before, i was like "so i get a head start for 47k? no thanks" now it seems more worth it.

And I agree...some kind of tip on the stables window would help a ton...or some quicky intro to "riding" or something.

DewiMorgan

Kronosphere wrote: »

sooooooooo... you thought u could keep feeding your horse apples till it can run infinitely closer to the speed of light

Nope, I thought like every other stat in every other game, the stats would be independently capped, probably at 100 because that's what the bars seem to show, and paying a year's worth of subscriptions and logging in every day seemed to me like it could well be worth such a reward. It didn't seem hugely overkill, given that horses are non-tradable even between characters.

It feels unintuitive that there's a common cap, lower than the max of any one bar, which is shared between all three of the stats in a way unlike any other stat in the game.

A tooltip would help, but to be honest, I'm only suggesting that because I know a UI redesign would never happen. The three bars are poor UI, as the following quote shows:

Eris wrote: »

Did you think you could infinitely upgrade the horses? It seemed to me that the status bar continuously going up with each purchase moving inexorably towards the end point would be a good indication.

I would agree, if you could ever reach that end point of 100, on any horse, even the expensive ones, if you always fed it the same food. But, the "end point" that the UI suggests can never be reached, let alone reached on all three stats.

The cap of 50 levellings is shared between all three sliders, which is unclear from the UI. That is, if you spend points on one slot, the maximum level that the others can ever reach, all fall by one, but that "end point" in the UI does not change.

So I do agree with you that the UI definitely could clearly show the caps: but at the moment, as it stands, it does not. And this is quite misleading.

Ideally there'd be a decreasing progress bar of feeds, or an increasing progress bar for the growth of the horse, or even a text readout like "level 1/50". The three skills should really not be bars, since bars imply things about independance and caps, which are not true in this case. But a note on the initial tooltip would at least help, though.

Rage_Frost

I knew this was coming in fact I posted a topic about it on April 13th
I will quote myself
"I can see A LOT of upset folks when they all find out that the horse they have can only be a max level of say 50 and didn't know that come down the road in 50 or so days... From release. "

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/77074/max-level-horse#latest

wrlifeboil

No surprise that the forum barflies would know this.

wrlifeboil

DewiMorgan wrote: »

Kronosphere wrote: »

sooooooooo... you thought u could keep feeding your horse apples till it can run infinitely closer to the speed of light

Nope, I thought like every other stat in every other game, the stats would be independently capped, probably at 100 because that's what the bars seem to show, and paying a year's worth of subscriptions and logging in every day seemed to me like it could well be worth such a reward. It didn't seem hugely overkill, given that horses are non-tradable even between characters.

It feels unintuitive that there's a common cap, lower than the max of any one bar, which is shared between all three of the stats in a way unlike any other stat in the game.

A tooltip would help, but to be honest, I'm only suggesting that because I know a UI redesign would never happen. The three bars are poor UI, as the following quote shows:

Eris wrote: »

Did you think you could infinitely upgrade the horses? It seemed to me that the status bar continuously going up with each purchase moving inexorably towards the end point would be a good indication.

I would agree, if you could ever reach that end point of 100, on any horse, even the expensive ones, if you always fed it the same food. So, the "end point" that the UI suggests can never be reached, let alone reached on all three stats.

The cap of 50 levellings is shared between all three sliders, which is unclear from the UI. That is, if you spend points on one slot, the maximum level that the others can ever reach, all fall by one, but that "end point" in the UI does not change.

So I do agree with you that the UI definitely could clearly show the caps: but at the moment, as it stands, it does not. And this is quite misleading.

Ideally there'd be a decreasing progress bar of feeds, or an increasing progress bar for the growth of the horse, or even a text readout like "level 1/50". The three skills should really not be bars, since bars imply things about independance and caps, which are not true in this case. But a note on the initial tooltip would at least help, though.

Good answer. For those who don't understand why, read "The Visual Display of Quantitative Information" by Tufte.

For the tl;dr crowd, the horse advancement ui doesn't do a good job of telling users that players are allocating a limited amount of points among three categories.

Fruity_Ninja

Everything levels to 50- your character, your skills, your horse, crafts.

A quick read online would confirm this if the time is put in to learn about it, I don't see the problem OP.

Sarenia

It isn't explicitly stated in-game, but obviously you can't continue infinitely feeding your horse and having 500% speed or 800 bag slots in a few years. Some knowledge should be implicit.

wrlifeboil

Sarenia wrote: »

It isn't explicitly stated in-game, but obviously you can't continue infinitely feeding your horse and having 500% speed or 800 bag slots in a few years. Some knowledge should be implicit.

Implicit, eh? So what is the limit on the amount of gold that a player can have in eso?

Sarenia

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Sarenia wrote: »

It isn't explicitly stated in-game, but obviously you can't continue infinitely feeding your horse and having 500% speed or 800 bag slots in a few years. Some knowledge should be implicit.

Implicit, eh? So what is the limit on the amount of gold that a player can have in eso?

Not sure what this has to do with anything here, in even the most remote and convoluted capacity, but I wish you luck in finding that cap my friend!

If you're trying to say there should be a bold, highlighted counter in the character sheet saying "You have 15 out of a maximum 9,999,999,999,999 gold" I recommend letting ZOS know your thoughts.

wrlifeboil

Sarenia wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Sarenia wrote: »

It isn't explicitly stated in-game, but obviously you can't continue infinitely feeding your horse and having 500% speed or 800 bag slots in a few years. Some knowledge should be implicit.

Implicit, eh? So what is the limit on the amount of gold that a player can have in eso?

Not sure what this has to do with anything here, in even the most remote and convoluted capacity, but I wish you luck in finding that cap my friend!

If you're trying to say there should be a bold, highlighted counter in the character sheet saying "You have 15 out of a maximum 9,999,999,999,999 gold" I recommend letting ZOS know your thoughts.

You walked right into that one. Some details don't have to be spelled out because for the vast majority of players, they will never hit the limit, like the gold limit. It would be safe to say that the gold limit is irrelevent for 99.9% of players. But a point limit like for mounts that only takes 50 logins over 50 days is within the reach of even the most casual player. This should be made clear so players can make good decisions on how to allocate their limited amount of points.

Sarenia

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Sarenia wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Sarenia wrote: »

It isn't explicitly stated in-game, but obviously you can't continue infinitely feeding your horse and having 500% speed or 800 bag slots in a few years. Some knowledge should be implicit.

Implicit, eh? So what is the limit on the amount of gold that a player can have in eso?

Not sure what this has to do with anything here, in even the most remote and convoluted capacity, but I wish you luck in finding that cap my friend!

If you're trying to say there should be a bold, highlighted counter in the character sheet saying "You have 15 out of a maximum 9,999,999,999,999 gold" I recommend letting ZOS know your thoughts.

You walked right into that one. Some details don't have to be spelled out because for the vast majority of players, they will never hit the limit, like the gold limit.

I agree with this, and this is exactly what I said earlier, in fewer words.

It's unfortunate that people who thought they could continue infinitely feeding their horse were confused. It's also unfortunate that McDonalds has to put "Caution: May be Hot!" on their coffee -- think how much ink the world would save annually if they didn't have to print that?

wrlifeboil

Sarenia wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Sarenia wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Sarenia wrote: »

It isn't explicitly stated in-game, but obviously you can't continue infinitely feeding your horse and having 500% speed or 800 bag slots in a few years. Some knowledge should be implicit.

Implicit, eh? So what is the limit on the amount of gold that a player can have in eso?

Not sure what this has to do with anything here, in even the most remote and convoluted capacity, but I wish you luck in finding that cap my friend!

If you're trying to say there should be a bold, highlighted counter in the character sheet saying "You have 15 out of a maximum 9,999,999,999,999 gold" I recommend letting ZOS know your thoughts.

You walked right into that one. Some details don't have to be spelled out because for the vast majority of players, they will never hit the limit, like the gold limit.

I agree with this, and this is exactly what I said earlier, in fewer words.

It's unfortunate that people who thought they could continue infinitely feeding their horse were confused. It's also unfortunate that McDonalds has to put "Caution: May be Hot!" on their coffee -- think how much ink the world would save annually if they didn't have to print that?

Totally weak spin.

DewiMorgan

Nobody thought they could continue feeding their mounts infinitely: I'm not sure where that strawman came from.
[Edit: But misunderstanding can be a UI issue. I've edited the OP to be clearer about this.]

Thunder

Obviously no one thought you could keep feeding your house forever and eventually approach the speed of light. There is no logical reason to draw that conclusion what so ever.

However, there is a very logical reason to assume you could feed your horse to 100%... because the speed bar goes to 100%! Furthermore, there is not a single thing in the interface that would in anyway suggest that you can not feed your horse to 100%.

There is not a single thing in the interface to indicate that if you increase stamina our bag space that you will be severely limiting your top speed.

Finally, the horses are so slow that my friend out ran me on foot, and that's after I'd been feeding my horse Apple's everyday for 3 weeks!

They will obviously fix this and allow horses to level all there stays to cap. It's just good business, it gives players a reason to log on every day. So take heart my fellow horsemen, this will not stand. Especially when day 50 hits and all the imperials find out what the game most certainly does not tell you.

DewiMorgan

@Thunder I absolutely agree with everything you wrote... but I just can't help myself from pointing out that your sig is *beautifully* ironic in this context

Rage_Frost

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

Everything levels to 50- your character, your skills, your horse, crafts.

A quick read online would confirm this if the time is put in to learn about it, I don't see the problem OP.

That's not a good one... lets see you can be level 50 with a VR rank of 10 so are you really just level 50?
I'm sure a level 50 vs a level 50 VR 10 would disagree on this

The UI system does not tell you much about the game in fact a lot of it is very misleading.

Take the 25% for the Guild Store the 10% says in the tool tip's it goes to the guild. I also see in the future notes that they will have where guilds can bid on having a Guild store location open to everyone in all the major towns...

How are guild going to fund these bids if the funds do not get placed into the guild in the first place...

ESO tooltips are less then perfect lmao..

Tetujin

I totally think that as presented it is easy to mistake that there are three independent caps, and you can get each of them maxed eventually, but are just choosing which you want first. Sort of like choosing how you evolve abilities with skill points maybe.

I heard of this 50 level cap a while ago, because someone asked what the point of a more expensive horse was, more gold just for a head start in one stat? And why have multiple horses? Then I think someone clarified that they have different max potentials in that stat. Even then it wasn't fully obvious that there are 50 upgraded total per horse until someone pointed it out, and it made complete sense all of a sudden how it was designed.

I'm sure that lots of people have scratched their head and asked around, googled it, or saw an official comment somewhere.

I don't have any issue with the way this works at all, I kind of like it actually, but my suggestion would be to have an XX/50 counter on it or something just to be clear in case people don't think about it until later.

maneatingmonkey

Wait, so you can only feed your horse 50 times??? Are you certain about this? This is the FIRST I've heard of this and I thought I knew all the stuff that's considered "common knowledge" about this game. I've been under this impression this whole time that if your has 15% speed then you should be able to feed it 85 times to get it to full speed, and same with he other stats. In fact, I've even told my friends to buy the cheapest horse available, because they are equal to the other horses except they take longer to level. And yes, I have read the help section on horses - although I thought that just meant that my horse would stop "gaining levels" after being fed 50 times, but still continue to have stat increases when fed?

If horses can really only be fed 50 times, then I'm gonna be really pissed off at ZOS for making me waste the 6000 gold I've spent feeding my horse - CAUSE THIS WASN'T MENTIONED ANYWHERE IN GAME!!!!!

DewiMorgan

sir_dunnub17_ESO wrote: »

...it made complete sense all of a sudden how it was designed.[...]

I don't have any issue with the way this works at all, I kind of like it actually

Yes, exactly!
I'm fine with the mechanic (though I'd love to have known about it earlier, before pumping everything into Oats!)
I don't think anyone's asking for a change of the mechanic, but I bet many will when people start to hit the cap. For most of us though, it's just a UI clarity issue, like that 6-targer AoE thing: that should have been clear from the start, too.
Mind you, I certainly wouldn't cry and wail if they did raise the cap to a hundred, or even 300 so you could max all three... but I can definitely see why they wouldn't, too, and won't wail if they never do.

reagen_lionel

I honestly dont care. Im not trying to have the best of the best of anything. I'm satisfied with just having a horse and able to upgrade it how I choose.

The horse had no impending on me pre ordering. i was just glad I got a free mount at all. I was more concerned with the imperial, play any faction and the rings of mara (which are freaking bound to one character only!! ))

Chryos

I bought the Imperial edition mainly to support the game that I love and for instant access for a horse period. The upset over stats I guess is not a big deal to me. I'm not going to fret over little details over a game. I have the digital imperial version, a horse, I got to beta test, so far I have gotten 10 free days of game play (not to mention the few xtra bonus days they gave to extend the prerelease). I'm happy, I dont feel ripped off in any way on the horse deal. I too have heard you can feed it a total of 50 times, however I'm not at that point yet, so I do not know. I read somewhere though, there was a limit. Otherwise no big deal for me.

Draconiuos

You know at one point I wasn't sure if there was a feed cap on horses or if you could eventually cap out each stat. Then I noticed my horse had a level clear marked on it, and I realized that every time I fed it, it gained a level. So, reason would bring us to believe that the common max level for thing in ESO is 50, that horse would get 50 levels and stop improving. I little common sense and paying attention goes a long way in life.

rowdog

I can see where the confusion comes from but it was very intuitive for me: the horses' attributes mirror our own. We get magicka/health/stamina while the horse gets carry/speed/stamina which implies that we get to add 49 stat points.

Pedantic: leveling from 1 to 50 is 49 level ups, not 50.

Laerian

All horses should be able to reach the same cap and total stats.

Those who pay 42k get different colors and 10 stat more = 200 hours of feed by advance.

Draconiuos

Laerian wrote: »

All horses should be able to reach the same cap and total stats.

Those who pay 42k get different colors and 10 stat more = 200 hours of feed by advance.

Meh, that is no fun, because everyone ends up just being same. I think people are tired of everyone being the same.

Laerian

Draconiuos wrote: »

Laerian wrote: »

All horses should be able to reach the same cap and total stats.

Those who pay 42k get different colors and 10 stat more = 200 hours of feed by advance.

Meh, that is no fun, because everyone ends up just being same. I think people are tired of everyone being the same.

it's not the same. Those common horses have "common" colors and take 200 hours more to reach the cap. (which is 10 days of gameplay/subscription time in most cases).

/edit By the way to avoid misunderstandings, all this is hypothetical and is my opinion on how it should be. Currently 42k horses have 10 stats more.

Sarenia

Laerian wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

Laerian wrote: »

All horses should be able to reach the same cap and total stats.

Those who pay 42k get different colors and 10 stat more = 200 hours of feed by advance.

Meh, that is no fun, because everyone ends up just being same. I think people are tired of everyone being the same.

it's not the same. Those common horses have "common" colors and take 200 hours more to reach the cap. (which is 10 days of gameplay/subscription time in most cases).

All the horse colors are "common".

Now if we had something like this buttermilk buckskin, it would be uncommon:


PS: I would totally save up 100,000 gold for that beauty. ^_^

Tetujin

I also like that you can train multiple horses, have one for racing around, pull out a pack horse for long-haul stuff, a stamina/speed one for pvp or something. To me it seems cool that mounts can be different like this.

I also don't think mounts here are really the same as other games, as in overcoming the burden of slow travel, since you can travel around the world pretty easily with wayshrines, and walking around tends to be better most of the time for questing and exploring from my experience in a lot if cases.

In the end I don't think you can ruin a horse if that's what you are worried about, just have a different blend of advantages. You can always level a more specialized one on the side once you can purchase it.

DewiMorgan

Draconiuos wrote: »

Meh, that is no fun, because everyone ends up just being same. I think people are tired of everyone being the same.

Don't worry, they're bringing in dying of clothes for you.

However, the expensive horses already are "all the same": and if you want to max out your horse in some way, you need the expensive horse, which means everyone still will be all the same.

It just means that if you spend money to buy a Palomino horse, it will become worthless to you after a while because on order to improve to the level of people who bought the 45k horses, you'll have to buy one yourself, and level it. So, for your cash, you'll actually be behind those who just bought the 45k horse from the beginning.

Advantage goes to: those who gave $13 to the gold-sellers and bought a 45k horse instead!

But eventually, yes, once you've junked your Palomino and got another horse, then you'll be the same as everyone else. Your $13 arguably bought you a 50-day, 12.5k gold disadvantage, but you did get the horse a few days sooner, so it probably balances out.