So, where's the skill-line to those who are faithful "men" instead of vamps or WW?

ArgonianAssassin

I'm glad you think so, maybe you should check out my vampire idea thread, I'm sure you'll love it.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

I actually do like this idea, but I would be happy if they just buffed fighters guild to actually make players think twice before letting edward sink his fangs into their necks. Or maybe made vampires actually burn in the sun, I mean its a slap in the face to lore to have them go out during the day and not suffer what so ever. Even vampire lords in skyrim weren't healthy in the sun and those guys are much tougher vampires then these petty little things.

beowulfsshield

I've had this thought as well. I'd prefer to stay a disease free humanoid but it seems that to do so puts me at a disadvantage on the PvP field. One of the things that I disliked about Skyrim was that it rewarded antisocial behavior and seemingly punished those who wished to remain lawful good. There should be an even playing field for both "good" and "evil" players, and appropriate choices for each.

Nox_Aeterna

Lets make something quite clear here people , i know it is hard , cause not everyone is that ... perceptive , but im sure if it is literally told to their faces , even them can grasp this:

Vampires got: 50% fire vun , health regen problems AND they need to deal with the fact other players got the fighters guild skill line.

Which is something freaking annoying , that is the reason they got a new and great skill line.

The stronger the methods to counter the vampires and its problems become , the more OP this skill tree will become to counter it , welcome to MMO balance , sorry people , but you will never be given free pass to own another player just because you want it.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

I actually do like this idea, but I would be happy if they just buffed fighters guild to actually make players think twice before letting edward sink his fangs into their necks. Or maybe made vampires actually burn in the sun, I mean its a slap in the face to lore to have them go out during the day and not suffer what so ever.

Yes skyrim is an illusion , that is the reason vampires that can take 0 damage in the sun slaps the lore :P.

The funniest part , if anything , you are closer to the skyrim vampire then any other , since the vampire that gives you the gift was directly cursed by molag bal himself. Which was one of the reasons that the "vampire lord" of skyrim was stronger than the normal ones.

Eivar

bg22 wrote: »

Eivar wrote: »

I still like my idea, of introducing either a Divines skill line, or a priesthood of Arkay, something that would be precluded from WW or Vamps, maybe not specifically set up to fight them, but having a couple magicka based abilities against Daedric influences(ie undead, werewolves, vamps)

I like the idea as well. Creating a 3rd "world-skill" along the lines of ww/vamp seems like it would have been a no brainer. It's the same concept of 3 Alliances. The number keeps balance. I don't really care where the skill-line come from, so long as it has abilities on par w/ vamps and ww's.

And I'm already loving the tears from vampires in /zone. Crying because abilities were fixed. Not nerfed, but fixed. It's great.

Actually I disagree about the "fixed" I play a V4 NB vamp, and while I agree devouring swarm was clearly broken, and as an ult never should have been included in the vamp ability cost reduction. The real issue is that, in my case mist form costs like 530ish magicka at stage 4 vamp now. For someone playing a magical based character that makes it useless, you can't heal or be healed while in most form,nor can you do anything but move, so it's an end of fight oh *** run away kind of cd, except now by the time you would reach that point it's too expensive to use, not worth wasting a precious active slot on. Personally I run a stamina based build, so it's not much of an issue for me, but it severely limits my options to play as a vamp. Essence drain on the other hand I feel is fine at the new price, it is a fantastic heal/drain that can be twice as strong or give you ult, it should be expensive.


FYI there are already 3 world skill lines, a fourth would be needed

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

The stronger the methods to counter the vampires and its problems become , the more OP this skill tree will become to counter it , welcome to MMO balance , sorry people , but you will never be given free pass to own another player just because you want it.

Yes and that exactly why fighters guild needs a buff, you shouldnt ever get a free pass to own another player. I think its wrong for vampires to run around uncontested simply because they dont care about balance and just want to play the flavor of the month play style. I guess we can agree on that then. Got to have balances or pvp will become a 1 build to rule them all nightmare.

dodgehopper_ESO

With strong enchants, i was able to flings balls of sunny flame and be a vampire in skyrim... With the right enchsntments, but i also heavily invest in enchanting and alchemy in just about every tes game. It is too fun not too. The reality is though that i found my humans/mer were always stronger within time.

One big thing in eso i do not understand is the poison weakness of weres. It does not make sense. All this being said i think a Vigilant of stendarr skill line would be great.

One Two

bg22 wrote: »

This isn't a thread to talk about the ridiculousness of Vamp abilities, or anything like... But simply a question toward the dev's - Where is the skill-line that only those of use remaining faithful to the race of "men"?

Slighty unbalanced that only by choosing vampire/WW you can gain a skill-line, but lose nothing. How about making just fighter guild skills available to non-vamp/ww players?

That seems like the logical thing to do...

Explain to me what is OP by having -50% to FR, -75% to HP regen, getting trucked by Fighters guild skill lines...

tell me, whats so bloody OP apart from bat swarm, which should of been nerfed, but instead, everything BUT Bat Swarm was nerfed...

go on, i don't think you can.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kc2ehFqcyI

This is what is op apart from bat swarm. Dont pretend like you've never seen this before either, this kind of antics happens almost everytime a vampire decides hes not going to win a fight. Yes this guy eventually dies, but other then bolt escape what other ability can let you just derp away from that many people slashing the crap out of you? If he had back up he would gave gotten away because then they would have been stupid to continue following him. As a nightblade I can turn invisible for 3 seconds and thats pretty nice, but it can be hard countered by magelight which is fair. Thats a checks and balance system right there, now if fighters guild was given an ability to knock vampires out of mist then that would be a check to balance mist. If you manage to escape with cloak your probably a really sneaky fellow and you deserve to live to fight again, but mist form requires no such talent.

I do think mist can be hit with talons, but thats probably a bug since mist form is supposed to make you immune to control. "gain invulnerability to healing magic and control effects for 3 seconds"

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

"tell me, whats so bloody OP apart from bat swarm, which should of been nerfed, but instead, everything BUT Bat Swarm was nerfed.."

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kc2ehFqcyI

This is what is op apart from bat swarm and before you say mist form WAS nerfed this is a video of a guy using mist form without the speed boost(nice nerf huh?). Dont pretend like you've never seen this before either, this kind of antics happens almost everytime a vampire decides hes not going to win a fight. Yes this guy eventually dies, but other then bolt escape what other ability can let you just derp away from that many people slashing the crap out of you? If he had back up he would gave gotten away because then they would have been stupid to continue following him. As a nightblade I can turn invisible for 3 seconds and thats pretty nice, but it can be hard countered by magelight which is fair. Thats a checks and balance system right there, now if fighters guild was given an ability to knock vampires out of mist then that would be a check to balance mist. If you manage to escape with cloak your probably a really sneaky fellow and you deserve to live to fight again, but mist form requires no such talent.

I do think mist can be hit with talons, but thats probably a bug since mist form is supposed to make you immune to control. "gain invulnerability to healing magic and control effects for 3 seconds"

knaveofengland

you can join the other guilds that have skills even great for killing vamps and werewolves ,

One Two

The only thing your video shows is mist being used defensibly, against a bunch of n00bs.
One charge or knock down and your dead.
So what has changed? nothing, you still take 75% reduced damage.
Whats your point?

My POINT was, and is: That I use my MIST as an offensive HUNTER/CATCH the escapee skill, which now i can not do. You can still pull a defensible crawl off and still do what the video above shows.
Nothing has changed in that respect.

i'd rather have 50% to 35% less damage taken and the original speed boon that the above crap.

Like you said your self, what other ability BUT bolt escape lets you "derp" away? none, but bolt is THE most OP skill there is, bolt bolt bolt bolt, and gone, no damage taken. But guess what buddy? ITS not going to be nerfed, not planned, not talked about, no one complains...why? because the mage is the most played class because of its OP status.

Cloak is 2.5s not 3. and its no where near as jammy as BOLT or MIST, but bolt isn't being nerfed in the conceivable future.
Mage light counters cloak, bolt has no easy counter, if your a n00b then it has, but same goes for all skills in that respect.

Mist has a counter and that's stun or knock down, or the fact that your slow and can't get away while being hit, bolt is fast and very quick to spam. Cloak is just a joke.

fall damage you say? give over.

You can be stunned or knocked down as you spam mist, very easily so it's not OP in that respect, BOLT is and will always be.

Also let's not forget all the draw backs of being a vamp. Vs the gains.
And Bat Swarm can still be spammed for 88Ulti.
Awesome Fix Zenimax, just brilliant.
Remove the offensive capabilities of a vampire that isn't using bat swarm as a spammed skill, to catch bolters and counter their lame getaway, but hey, let's allow mages and DKs (most OP classes) to still spam bat swarm, because we are cool like that.

Daendur

bg22 wrote: »

Slighty unbalanced that only by choosing vampire/WW you can gain a skill-line, but lose nothing.

Vamps:
25-50-75% health regen reduction (or feed every 30 min)
50% more fire damage

i don't call it "nothing"

KiroElmarok

@One Two
Eh, you get that DK and Sorc can stack ult faster then NB and Temp... but I don't think you understand what the problem with bat swarm was...

People were spamming it, causeing bat swarms to stack up to 3-5 bat swarms and hit every player in the near vicinity. That's the problem with this. And with the way Ult is generated, DK and Sorc could spam their ults. (Naturally most ran with ult cost reduction gear, making this even more broken.)

I believe the most standards of might I've seen a dk vamp drop is 5? But the ones that spam swarm and talons could drop as many as they want... I saw 5 because by then ... everyone near the vamp was dead.

Can people do it? Yep, but its not crazy damage per tick because of a stacking bug anymore. Its actually humorous to see people still try it.

To all the vamps whinning about mist form nerf, you have every right. Because it wasn't the main problem. (Although capping scrolls is easy mode with a vamp carrier.)

No more cheese for the mice for now I guess.. we'll see what the next cheese is soon enough.(probably DK)

Edit:can't use the @handle function with one two... lol

Ruddertail

What would the disadvantage for this "human" skill line be, then? Weakness at night? Extra damage from normal weaponry? The vampire fire weakness is an enormous disadvantage already.

Vitho

more world skill lines
what about being a priest of stendar or the champion of deadric lord
for example: becoming Azura´s Champion for killing most undead in a week...

KiroElmarok

@Vitho‌
But what about Muh Runes Dagon... his champ get a dagger that one shots.
(Implying the daedric champions get the corresponding daedric weapon.)

bg22

Daendur wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Slighty unbalanced that only by choosing vampire/WW you can gain a skill-line, but lose nothing.

Vamps:
25-50-75% health regen reduction (or feed every 30 min)
50% more fire damage

i don't call it "nothing"

Give me a break Edward... Wear a piece of flame resist jewelry and you take less flame damage than a non-vamp.

bg22

One Two wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

This isn't a thread to talk about the ridiculousness of Vamp abilities, or anything like... But simply a question toward the dev's - Where is the skill-line that only those of use remaining faithful to the race of "men"?

Slighty unbalanced that only by choosing vampire/WW you can gain a skill-line, but lose nothing. How about making just fighter guild skills available to non-vamp/ww players?

That seems like the logical thing to do...

Explain to me what is OP by having -50% to FR, -75% to HP regen, getting trucked by Fighters guild skill lines...

tell me, whats so bloody OP apart from bat swarm, which should of been nerfed, but instead, everything BUT Bat Swarm was nerfed...

go on, i don't think you can.

Did you even read the original post?

So, where in my post did I say anything about a skill being OP?

Tell me. Go on. I don't think you can.

But now I will, you're so defensive and petrified as to receive a nerf, that when any thread has the word "Vampire" in it, you go off in some tangent about "We're not OP! Health regen! Negative flame stuff! We don't need a nerd! Fire! Bat mist isn't OP! Vampires, I love Edward! We're not OP!"

That is called, "If the shoe fits".

The_Sadist

Why is it you're the only one going about Edward? Is there something you want to admit? It's okay, we're here to support you.

But seriously, still no response with an actual argument? I'm waiting.

bg22

The_Sadist wrote: »

Why is it you're the only one going about Edward? Is there something you want to admit? It's okay, we're here to support you.

But seriously, still no response with an actual argument and without a childish mentality? I'm waiting.

I never once said that banning them from the current guilds was the only option, did I? It was merely a suggestion and you raged out. I have no reason to comment to explain something that I haven't even implied or said. So this is why you do not receive any argument.. You're fabricating things to argue about.

The_Sadist

bg22 wrote: »

The_Sadist wrote: »

Why is it you're the only one going about Edward? Is there something you want to admit? It's okay, we're here to support you.

But seriously, still no response with an actual argument and without a childish mentality? I'm waiting.

I never once said that banning them from the current guilds was the only option, did I? It was merely a suggestion and you raged out. I have no reason to comment to explain something that I haven't even implied or said. So this is why you do not receive any argument.. You're fabricating things to argue about.

Raged out? You meant posted a counterargument explaining how that's a silly idea and provided reasons for why that wasn't lore friendly, logical or simply plausible?
And you're simply trolling for the sake of trolling, that much is becoming apparent.

Now now now, no need for that sort of stuff mister kettle.

Again with the Twilight obsession, disclaimer, I have never watched the movie.

bg22

@The_Sadist‌ you raged because you somehow came to the conclusion that banning them from a guild was the end all, be all of answers. I never said that. It was merely one suggestion. I clearly posted later in the thread (which you would have read had you not been so blinded by tears of rage) and agreed with other suggestions which entailed making an additional skill-line.

But if your only gripe with banning vampires from the fighters guild would be the deprivation of "Intimidate", there's quite a simple fix, add a similar skill to the vampire skill line. "Flash-fangs" or something like that.

ZOS_AlexD

Hello guys. Please keep in mind when discussing in the thread to keep your posts civil and constructive. Resorting to personal comments and jabs is never okay. Please also keep in mind that we do not expect everyone to agree all of the time, but we do expect everyone to debate and discuss civilly.

The_Sadist

bg22 wrote: »

@The_Sadist‌ you raged because you somehow came to the conclusion that banning them from a guild was the end all, be all of answers. I never said that. It was merely one suggestion. I clearly posted later in the thread (which you would have read had you not been so blinded by tears of rage) and agreed with other suggestions which entailed making an additional skill-line.

But if your only gripe with banning vampires from the fighters guild would be the deprivation of "Intimidate", there's quite a simple fix, add a similar skill to the vampire skill line. "Flash-fangs" or something like that.

If anyone has been raging it's you. You seem to fixate solely on your own idea and if anyone else has a differing opinion you belittle them and call them inappropriate names. You mean your 'making them have more negative consequences / night cycle' suggestion? I did read that and there's a whole topic about the day / night cycle. More negative consequences would be a bit over the top. Again with the childish comments, tears of rage? Hardly.

My issue is it doesn't make any sense to ban vampires from the guild. Because vampires are meant to go about unnoticed.. the fact that a majority of the ESO population are vampires is irrelevant to this fact. Banning werewolves and vampires from the fighter's guild will literally have minimal impact in PvP and just damage PvE (as the passives become quite lovely when around undead/daedra/werewolves).

ZOS_AlexD wrote: »

Hello guys. Please keep in mind when discussing in the thread to keep your posts civil and constructive. Resorting to personal comments and jabs is never okay. Please also keep in mind that we do not expect everyone to agree all of the time, but we do expect everyone to debate and discuss civilly.

Tell that to guy who is calling everyone Edward when they voice their opinion. It's hard to be civil when someone actively baits, flames and trolls.

Noth

Daendur wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Slighty unbalanced that only by choosing vampire/WW you can gain a skill-line, but lose nothing.

Vamps:
25-50-75% health regen reduction (or feed every 30 min)
50% more fire damage

i don't call it "nothing"

Health regen is probably the most worthless stat in the game. Weakness to fire damage is easily covered by enchants or even selection of a race. THey really amount to very little as far as weaknesses go.

bg22

The_Sadist wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

@The_Sadist‌ you raged because you somehow came to the conclusion that banning them from a guild was the end all, be all of answers. I never said that. It was merely one suggestion. I clearly posted later in the thread (which you would have read had you not been so blinded by tears of rage) and agreed with other suggestions which entailed making an additional skill-line.

But if your only gripe with banning vampires from the fighters guild would be the deprivation of "Intimidate", there's quite a simple fix, add a similar skill to the vampire skill line. "Flash-fangs" or something like that.

If anyone has been raging it's you. You seem to fixate solely on your own idea and if anyone else has a differing opinion you belittle them and call them inappropriate names. You mean your 'making them have more negative consequences / night cycle' suggestion? I did read that and there's a whole topic about the day / night cycle. More negative consequences would be a bit over the top. Again with the childish comments, tears of rage? Hardly.

My issue is it doesn't make any sense to ban vampires from the guild. Because vampires are meant to go about unnoticed.. the fact that a majority of the ESO population are vampires is irrelevant to this fact. Banning werewolves and vampires from the fighter's guild will literally have minimal impact in PvP and just damage PvE (as the passives become quite lovely when around undead/daedra/werewolves).

ZOS_AlexD wrote: »

Hello guys. Please keep in mind when discussing in the thread to keep your posts civil and constructive. Resorting to personal comments and jabs is never okay. Please also keep in mind that we do not expect everyone to agree all of the time, but we do expect everyone to debate and discuss civilly.

Tell that to guy who is calling everyone Edward when they voice their opinion. It's hard to be civil when someone actively baits, flames and trolls.

You must read every third post or something to that effect. I've no further use in conversing with you. Go back and read, I will not repeat myself on a forum because of ignorance.

The_Sadist

bg22 wrote: »

The_Sadist wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

@The_Sadist‌ you raged because you somehow came to the conclusion that banning them from a guild was the end all, be all of answers. I never said that. It was merely one suggestion. I clearly posted later in the thread (which you would have read had you not been so blinded by tears of rage) and agreed with other suggestions which entailed making an additional skill-line.

But if your only gripe with banning vampires from the fighters guild would be the deprivation of "Intimidate", there's quite a simple fix, add a similar skill to the vampire skill line. "Flash-fangs" or something like that.

If anyone has been raging it's you. You seem to fixate solely on your own idea and if anyone else has a differing opinion you belittle them and call them inappropriate names. You mean your 'making them have more negative consequences / night cycle' suggestion? I did read that and there's a whole topic about the day / night cycle. More negative consequences would be a bit over the top. Again with the childish comments, tears of rage? Hardly.

My issue is it doesn't make any sense to ban vampires from the guild. Because vampires are meant to go about unnoticed.. the fact that a majority of the ESO population are vampires is irrelevant to this fact. Banning werewolves and vampires from the fighter's guild will literally have minimal impact in PvP and just damage PvE (as the passives become quite lovely when around undead/daedra/werewolves).

ZOS_AlexD wrote: »

Hello guys. Please keep in mind when discussing in the thread to keep your posts civil and constructive. Resorting to personal comments and jabs is never okay. Please also keep in mind that we do not expect everyone to agree all of the time, but we do expect everyone to debate and discuss civilly.

Tell that to guy who is calling everyone Edward when they voice their opinion. It's hard to be civil when someone actively baits, flames and trolls.

You must read every third post or something to that effect. I've no further use in conversing with you. Go back and read, I will not repeat myself on a forum because of ignorance.

Because conversing with you has been a complete and utter enlightenment and a great use of my time. You saying "Exactly this. ^" is pretty easy to miss. Lastly you've been repeating yourself about how they should nerf werewolves / vampires.. seems like repetition to me.
But that's fine, I'll let you get back to Twilight.

Dreadker

The_Sadist wrote: »

There isn't any because why would there be?
They should add more options (lich springs to mind) but outside of that there shouldn't be a 'oh you're a normal person here have a skill line' option.. The price of being a vampire / werewolf comes at a cost, this cost is meant to make an individual question becoming a vampire / werewolf... the alternative is stay normal and not receive the positives and negatives associated with either disease.

I agree there is a cost and that by staying 'normal' you shouldn't get a 'free skill line'.

I've been running DK tank build since level 1 and at V2 i decided to try vampirism. Before i could just run into most packs, without any thought, but now if there's a fire npc (or multiple) i really have to work (and die quite a bit) to get them down.

Now that being said, I am running zero fire resist (on purpose) until i get to a stage that it's required to kill a boss style mob, or i hit V10. Once i get to V10 i will apply resist glyphs (1000 fire resist) to three jewelery pieces and run numbers to see the benefits. From some of the earlier numbers i've seen you can attain a 50% reduction (resulting in a 25% fire vulnerability instead of 50%). But with all the DR's, some passives appearing to not work, even the number crunched data is not 100% reliable.

One thing i've also noted, and WW feel free to correct me, is that the prevalence of fire mobs is a lot higher currently than poison mobs, meaning vampires have a harder time (especially with daedra or 3+ pack imps spamming fire).

Just my thoughts

Branbran

Thematically, what the OP is looking for is the Templar class. It is very focused on holy-type powers. One of its spells is literally called Vampire's Bane.

Perhaps they shouldn't have made it a class at all but made its skill lines as separately obtainable World Skills. It is after all the odd one out of the Elder Scrolls trinity: Warrior, Mage and Thief.