Would you like a more open approach to the class system and skill tress? How so?

Nox_Aeterna

I have been playing ES games for a long time , and I feel limited by the class system in this game.

Im annoyed by being limited to one class, even more to one class with 3 skill trees pre-selected to it.

But that is just my opinion , im making this pool to hear what others think about this.

Allyah

Would prefer that there was no classes , everyone could access all skill trees and train anything they liked.

I do think it would make the game more interesting. I only wonder if that much freedom of choice would translate well into a multi-player game. Especially with there being PVP.

Surinen

Would prefer that there was no classes , everyone could access all skill trees and train anything they liked.

I do not only prefer classes to disappear but I need them to go! This game, Carthage, oppression of magic! requires a solid Justiciar's work and purification by - all means brutal - . I'm not bothering my beautiful mind with balance, especially when I can get fyrelance or at least a lava whip for my Sorcerer. If skill line freedom translates into breaking Libra then I do not mind using crippled language. Some people will always play the best-of-the-best builds, let the rest enjoy their graphics, animations.

ceterum censeo carthaginem esse delendam

ahspear37

Would prefer that the current 3 skill trees/class was kept , but we would be able to pick any 3 skill trees we wanted.

For a solo game I think that having no classes would be perfect, and allowing you to pick any skills would really enrich the experience...

That being said, this is an MMORPG. It's unrealistic to ask the developers to break the game by taking out all of the balance. PvP would be pretty much a wasteland once everyone figured out the master builds and the rest just rage quit. In a single player game it makes sense to give you that much freedom, in a MMO it's financial suicide.

However - I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that we pick any 3 skill trees we want. I think that would be a pretty awesome change to the game, and would really create more classes while still bringing on some restrictions so players can't super-power themselves. I feel, at this point, that most classes are like hybrids. You can make a tank out of a DK, or a Templar, but they aren't dedicated tanks. Allowing to pick 3 skill trees of your choosing would allow a person to create a class dedicated solely to the style they want to play. For example - I am a Bloodmage in the game. That means I use 1 Nightblade skill tree fully, and invest 1-2 skills in my other class trees. But how cool would it be if I could have Siphoning, and the Templar's healing tree, and a Sorcerer's Dark Magic tree (Bloodmage passive)? I would be a true, dedicated Bloodmage, which I think would be pretty awesome. I also think this amount of choice would allow the game to keep its balance and still give us a compromise.

Just my opinion though.

Kendaric

Has other ideas then the OP about how all this should be handled. (please explain below)

The way I would have set up the classes would have been a lot closer to the TES singleplayer games up to TES IV:

- Classes would be based on the classes of the older TES games (e.g. Thief, barbarian, spellsword, etc.)

- Each class would have had three skill lines designated as their major skills, which would gain an experience gain bonus (much like the bonus the racials give). Classes would have no bearing beyond the experience gain bonus.

- Several of the current skill lines would be reworked (Restoring Light + Restoration Staff would become Restoration magic, Lightning + Destruction Staff would become Destruction Magic, Daedric Summoning + stuff like Summon Shadow (Nightblade) would become Conjuration, several Nightblade skills such as Cloak of Shadows would be turned into Illusion magic for example).

- Every class would be able to learn every skill line as before, base health, magicka and stamina would vary slightly depending on major skills (e.g. the warrior would start with higher stamina and a bit more health but less magicka, due to being focused on stamina use/weapon attacks, etc.).
That way, every class would have a direction to aid those unfamiliar with TES games without actually forcing the player to go that specific route.

Azzuria

Feels that the current system is fine, likes how there are classes and each got their own set of skills.

I've seen Tank, Heal and multiple DPS builds for each class, all viable, all wildly different.

There may be some min/max-ing with Racial passives, but generally speaking any race and class combo can do anything well enough. I like it.

Rolling up a Dunmer Warlock / Bloodmage ( Caster/Healer NB ) just because it's different. To me, that's freedom. More freedom than most MMOs have without the afore mentioned PvP mush- that a truly classless system would engender.

Without a major rework, in lines with what @Kendaric posted above ( which I like a lot! ), just like a lot of ESO, the current systems is a nice hybrid and a fair compromise between TES games of the past and MMO realities.

Stx

Would prefer that there was no classes , everyone could access all skill trees and train anything they liked.

The system they use with the slotted skills and the choice of skill trees works great imo. However, the 4 classes are restricting imo and I would prefer it if instead of having class trees and classes at all, instead we had more overall skill trees to choose from that followed a more traditional elder scrolls spellbook and fantasy genre spellbook. So instead of having restoring light tree for one class, there was simply a restoration tree for anyone to use and advance. Instead of storm calling, there could be destruction, instead of shadow, there would be illusion.

This format might seem homogeneous to some, but to me this just screams elder scrolls, and would give players even more freedom to build their character.

We definitely need separate trees for fire, ice, and dark destruction magic... the current options are way too limited.

Bayezid

Would prefer that there was no classes , everyone could access all skill trees and train anything they liked.

If Zenimax really wanted to innovate positively,they should ditch the class system entirely.

"Play how you wanna play" - Zenimax claims to aim for that. They must prove it by killing the class system.

Dudis

Has other ideas then the OP about how all this should be handled. (please explain below)

I know a lot of people think "more freedom" would lead to more variety but it wouldn't Just like Light/destro is the fotm now, EVERYONE would go that + talons and whatever if they had the choice.

Add MORE unique classes instead.

Surinen

Would prefer that there was no classes , everyone could access all skill trees and train anything they liked.

Dudis wrote: »

I know a lot of people think "more freedom" would lead to more variety but it wouldn't Just like Light/destro is the fotm now, EVERYONE would go that + talons and whatever if they had the choice.

Add MORE unique classes instead.

we know that it would lead to much more variety. many of us do not play this game for the 'fotms' but because of our genuine passion for TES. we have our own characters (to avoid saying classes) that are with us since morrowind and even before. I fully understand that online character of this game puts pressure on some people to equip their slots with the best abilities available. but look at Skyrim, thousands of people spent hundred of hours in that game, playing builds that are far from 'op' 'fotm'. they do it because of rp, immersion, feelings, animations, looks.

it would be beneficial for this game to stop treating it like any other MMO on the market. it is supposedly TES Online.

A little bit, few tons of developer's good will and this game has potential to be fantastic. [terminate classes, give more freedom of choice during quests (I wanted to torture khajiit and bosmer during quests at The College), fix lore and make Altmer act like Altmer (SWTOR did a good job with Sith, let us commit our own little eugenics infanticide, own a goblin slave and such)

madangrypally

Would prefer that there was no classes , everyone could access all skill trees and train anything they liked.

Keep the current classes, but once a player reaches level 50, the other classes unlock for that character.

Or they could just make it that once a player gets to 50 and starts out the new Vet Zones they also can switch to a new class for it.

Example:
I pick a sorcerer and level to 50 in DC. Before entering the AD part of the storyline I am given a choice to select another class. I choose Dragonknight and while I still have my Sorc skill lines I also can begin leveling the Dragonknight skill lines.

After the AD storyline is completed I head to EP and am given another choice to pick one of the two remaining classes. I pick Nightblade and now have access to the skill trees of Sorc, Dragonknight, and Nightblade.

Once I complete the EP story line I then can unlock the last class which is Templar since they suck.

Tessitura

Has other ideas then the OP about how all this should be handled. (please explain below)

This is my idea

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/109364/class-additions-instead-of-adding-new-classes#latest

Please give it a look and let me know what you think.

Pyatra

Feels that the current system is fine, likes how there are classes and each got their own set of skills.

I need more information about spellcrafting before I can suggest any changes... maybe that IS going to be a good alternate.

Surinen

Would prefer that there was no classes , everyone could access all skill trees and train anything they liked.

Pyatra wrote: »

I need more information about spellcrafting before I can suggest any changes... maybe that IS going to be a good alternate.

I would like to possess at least a little bit of 'hope' and turn yout 'maybe' into certain delight. unfortunately, I prefer to assume worst case scenario and that is: spell crafting being nothing more than a glorified 'glyph' system (or expanded morph) from the well known, big mmo.

but yes, I'm inclined to pretend that my suspicions are wrong and what we are going to get is fully developed spellcrafting that will allow us to not only change mechanics but also spell effects, and maybe even spell colour!

imagine how glorious it would be to breathe lightning/frost with your sorcerer
or throw flaming javelins!

ozgod22_eso

Has other ideas then the OP about how all this should be handled. (please explain below)

I think there's already plenty of potential flexibility with the current setup. The problem is that the penalty for experimentation and choosing different builds is very high, because you have to pay to respec everything if you want to tweak your build or reselect morphs.

All that really needs to happen is to change the way respec is done and have it on a per-skill line or per-morph basis. That would make the game much more flexible and you would see much more experimentation. Paying 12k - 20k at vet level to change builds is way over the top in my opinion.

Stovahkiin

Would prefer that there was no classes , everyone could access all skill trees and train anything they liked.

Have any of you guys played Runescape? It is another MMO that has been around for like 13 or 14 years and there are a lot of skills and no classes. You do anything you want and can change to something else immediately, you will just need the equipment to do so. To me that way is so much more simple. In my opinion it should have been like that from the start.

Aoifesan

Has other ideas then the OP about how all this should be handled. (please explain below)

Honestly, even with the system as it is now there is more than enough misunderstanding how things work.

I cannot begin to imagine how stupid people would behave without structure. This is minimal structure and still too taxing for most of the player base.

ozgod22_eso

Has other ideas then the OP about how all this should be handled. (please explain below)

One problem I see with having no classes and everyone can use the same skills is that for competitive end game (trials, PvP) a "best build" usually surfaces, determined by theorycrafters and then everyone starts running around with that build. You can see it now with the resto/destro build that all classes are running for max dps.

Crisscross

Has other ideas then the OP about how all this should be handled. (please explain below)

Radical idea, improbable they'll implement, but imo what should've been done from day 1.

Remove the classes and the class trees entirely. Add destruction, restoration, illusion, alteration, and conjuration skill trees. Consolidate the destruction staff and restoration staff into one skill line, focused on utility, CC, and buffing. Increase skill point count to allow for the additional skills. Increase the action bar slots from 5 to 6.

AlexDougherty

Feels that the current system is fine, likes how there are classes and each got their own set of skills.

The system is fine, if they opened it up, then everybody would choose the same skill trees, and we would have far less variation.

At the minute each class has two or three optimal builds, if the opened it up their would be two or three optimal builds for the entire game. Any other builds would be useless, rather than giving a slight disadvantage, it would be all or nothing.

Nox_Aeterna

Would prefer that there was no classes , everyone could access all skill trees and train anything they liked.

AlexDougherty wrote: »

The system is fine, if they opened it up, then everybody would choose the same skill trees, and we would have far less variation.

At the minute each class has two or three optimal builds, if the opened it up their would be two or three optimal builds for the entire game. Any other builds would be useless, rather than giving a slight disadvantage, it would be all or nothing.

Hum , i see this being said quite a lot, but honestly , i dont find it to be a good justification.

This is just forced variation.

People who want to use the best possible builds do so , but they ofc keep it inside their classes , not because they want , but because they must , which in turn , generate most of the thread we see about balance issues here , since their class should be able to do X just like class Y.

People who dont mind this so much , would still use the skills they wanted , but probably be happier also since now they have many more to pick from and play. Sorcs would finally have fire magic without the staff , everyone would be able to have the summons , everyone would be able to go inv (without a potion)...

Anyway , like i said , i feel it would be better to have it open and just allow people to find the skills that they would like to use the most , yes , many will go for the best skills , but they already do it now and just get frustrated when their best combo is inferior to what the other classes got.

Pmarsico9

Has other ideas then the OP about how all this should be handled. (please explain below)

I think there's two major issues in this game right now:

A) Restoration Staff-This shouldn't exist. Healing this powerful shouldn't be this accessible. The entire weapon line should be removed or at the very least nerfed heavily to provide no more than off-heals/support heals.

Now before you flip out, you have to understand something here:

I don't play a DK, I don't have to. I simply have to study the Draconic Power Skill line:

Is there a single tree in this game more suited for a particular role than Draconic Power is for tanking?

So with that said, you have the equivalent for the currently purposeless Templar. If it's OK for the DK to have it so easy to gain incredible tanking tools, so should the Templar have passive Magicka regen, quicker access to stronger heals, and more utility at the highest end of Restoring Light than other healers. Resto stave users shouldn't be comparable until the rank 42 talents and with sufficient drawbacks to doing so (you deal 25% less damage, but that 25% is converted to healing)

Medium and Heavy armor are capping too soon for damage reduction. Light Armor can hit the same caps but wastes far less in "overcharged" stats to do so.

I think the proper approach is to do the following:

The DK and Templar should only have access to one true DPS tree, one true Healing Tree, and one true Tanking tree. With the DPS tree supporting the other two trees. Currently both are the only two classes with a tree that is essentially driven to one end: Draconic Power is a blatant tanking tree and the same goes for Restoring Light.

The Nightblade and Sorc should have a single complementary tree that enables them to fill the other two roles aside from dealing damage, but have two means of dealing damage and the complementary role essentially allows them to passively do the other two roles. Akin to the Damage / Healing Conversion and Damage reduction empowered by the same damage dealing abilities. Essentially, they are much more "buff" based in regards to how they heal or tank while the other two are based more around CD's and passives, so the talents play a much bigger role in some ways.

I don't think fixing this will ruin anything, either. The current balance is abhorrent.

For Cyrodiil/PVP in general, the Alliance War trees need to be looked at carefully, as well, because essentially everything should feed off those trees for people that love Cyrodiil. Things like passive DR's from player-dealt damage, increased damage done to players, similar to the things that exist in those trees now, need to truly impact how that works, more so than even gear does.

Pmarsico9

Has other ideas then the OP about how all this should be handled. (please explain below)

The current "Play as you want system," is a sham anyway. I'm now getting turned down to tank dungeons because I'm a Templar and only DK's are viable tanks........so this is an issue that already exists and is permeating the playerbase. Having to re-roll to a DK, who can do everything, is not a viable answer. You may as well delete the other 3 classes if this is going to continue.

Sleepydan

Would prefer that the current 3 skill trees/class was kept , but we would be able to pick any 3 skill trees we wanted.

There should be much more choice with regards to skill line combination.

While completely without limitations is appealing, I feel like there should be some limitations. I think something about 10 skill lines total feels about right, including armor, weapon and crafting skill lines.

RatsnevE

Has other ideas then the OP about how all this should be handled. (please explain below)

I'm happy with the three classes but feel they need to be balanced in the game equally. I've played Path of Exile which has a wide complex skill tree to build and mix up just about anything desired. Its strategy was, like ESO's more then I desire as a casual gamer who will not, it looks like, be passing ESO 101. I would like credit for ESO 100 though.

I'm a simple casual gamer. I've been most frustrated to this date with forced single-player boss battles in the main story line with no way now or ability but to keep trying to kill Molag Bal or to stop, spend hours research with unknown results, and respec the character hopefully better. Or lastly give up. I haven't decided.

I would love to find some sincere direction on how to fix/respec my Khajiit NB self found sword & board actives and passives etc. as assassin/DPS in medium armor--but not light or heavy armor with staves. A bow is likely best secondary choice. The only crafting I do pursue is Alchemy.

I somehow have made bad skill choices and/or haven't focused on their proper use in battle tactics. YouTube makes it look so easy. And my goal remains only to finish PvE aspects of the game in the other alliances with no desire to respec again to move into PvP should that respec otherwise be required.

Of my choices quitting is the last but equally now I don't know what to do either. I never saw this as a problem coming back to bite me again when going through all of the Aldmeri Dominion and Coldharbour successfully including all the preliminary battles working right up to Molag Bal. That is what has been so unfair and misrepresented to me about the game.

This would not be an issue nor these thoughts even shared here if Molag Bal had been outside the story line so it could be skipped if to tough; or being in the story line it did not require a single-player only battle.

The_Sadist

Feels that the current system is fine, likes how there are classes and each got their own set of skills.

I quite like the class system and while it's not really traditional to an Elder Scrolls game, it works. However, I also think something akin to RIFT may work (it would feel more Elder Scrolls-y if all the skill lines came back and you had to select a few main ones and a few minor ones.. Alternatively a Skyrim 'level all of the things! But you can only allocate so many perks' could be interesting). But eh, fixed classes with the ability to join more guilds, a specific world skill line and with the new spell making system.. There seems to be ample opportunity to fulfil each role in group situations, cater to each play style and appear semi unique. That being said a DK tank would always be better compared to a Sorcerer one (from experience) and a Templar will always be the best healer. So while there's freedom to mix and match, you can only do so much and still be viable.

I'd like to see more classes implemented (Necromancer, Spellsword, Bard etc etc), more skill lines implemented (finish off and change the undaunted skill line, add a Lich world skill line, throw in more guilds, perhaps something relevant to Daedric Princes and add spears / unarmed combat etc etc weapon skills) alongside obvious fixes.

The game is awesome, I feel that certain weapon skills need to be revamped in order to be viable, perhaps Stamina based ultimates and whatnot, but all in all I like the class system.

That being said, my current issue is that I personally play a Sorcerer class and I'm extremely confused to why we have a shock specific tree line. It would make sense if the Sorcerer had a different name, but shock? Where did that even come from? Random.

Muletide

Has other ideas then the OP about how all this should be handled. (please explain below)

I like the current style of a class with a wide variety of choice for skills/abilities, but I'd like to see more than 4 starter classes (ie: adding Necromancer, Druid, Bard, etc. Classes familiar to RPG and ES lore).

Possible class morphs would be a great expansion of choice, similar to FFXI's advanced job option. Maybe when completing Cadwell's Silver/Gold you would have option to morph your class a certain direction. Even directions that would help with current balance issues like Dragon Knight: Morphs that fit and focus on the strengths of different play styles: Light Armor/Stave caster = "Dragon Lich" or " Dragon Priest", Heavy Armor/Tank = "Dragon Defender", Medium Armor/ melee DPS = "Dragon Blade."

AleriSadasIndoril

Feels that the current system is fine, likes how there are classes and each got their own set of skills.

Would prefer that there was no classes , everyone could access all skill trees and train anything they liked.

No, because for me is the danger that the skill system is as bad as in G...2
(I mention other games very reluctantly) each can do everything and nothing right.

Preachan

Would prefer that there was no classes , everyone could access all skill trees and train anything they liked.

No classes for me, please.

Coming back to a class system after the free system of TSW (which works good in PvP by the way) feels too limiting. And not really like TES should be.

Dudis

Has other ideas then the OP about how all this should be handled. (please explain below)

I dno, i just feel everyone that wanted to be somewhat competative would run Talons + Banner + Dark Exchange + Blazing Shield and whatever other OP spells/combos are available.

It's a lot about perspective too. PvP vs PvE (smallscale vs large) etc. I respect that Skyrim people want a more open system, i just don't think it'd work in a competative multiplayer game.

Personally i come from DAoC, a game with 45 unique classes. I think that adds more variety than everyone just getting to pick spells from a common pool that everyone has access to.
That said, i like the current system in ESO, i just wish there was more choices and uniqueness to be found.

AlexDougherty

Feels that the current system is fine, likes how there are classes and each got their own set of skills.

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

The system is fine, if they opened it up, then everybody would choose the same skill trees, and we would have far less variation.

At the minute each class has two or three optimal builds, if the opened it up their would be two or three optimal builds for the entire game. Any other builds would be useless, rather than giving a slight disadvantage, it would be all or nothing.

Hum , i see this being said quite a lot, but honestly , i dont find it to be a good justification.

This is just forced variation.

People who want to use the best possible builds do so , but they ofc keep it inside their classes , not because they want , but because they must , which in turn , generate most of the thread we see about balance issues here , since their class should be able to do X just like class Y.

I play all four classes, and have to say that the themes to the classes make them feel different. I like it that way, I now have four classes to play, if they had open class system, I would play one maybe two types. Of course I would still play all three factions, but one would feel repeated because I would be playing the best build again.

Yes, this forced variation. It's also increased replay value, I like replay value.

Don't get me wrong, I do get where people who want an open class system are coming from, I understand the logic, I even partially agree. But only partially, because I also understand the arguement I have been presenting earlier, and the diversity of the classes arguement outweighs the freedom of choice arguement.

But hey, feel free to disagree with me, after all, life would be boring if we all agreed about everything.