Lots of Empty Containers after Update

Abigail

Maybe we will get rebates with the updates.

ZoS keeps removing pieces of the game we paid for, perhaps rebates are in order.

BmcD73

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

So you ran comparison testing pre-patch and post-patch?

I must have missed that post...

I also must have missed where 6 became a representative sample size.

Again, if you weren't so intent on trolling, you would have seen in my original post that I clearly stated this wasn't scientific. I then later stated that while it is entirely possible that this is random, it is very improbable. But you aren't interested in doing anything but trolling so I guess I shouldn't expect anything but trolling.

But to your point about data, I have some data. Where is yours to the counter? Have you done a single test and documented it at all? And explain to me how I can repeat this test hours later and get the same results. Then a few hours later I repeat the test and not only was I seeing the same thing, I had higher numbers of empty containers. On top of that, I conducted another test where I moved from 6 different locations in 2 zones. The more containers I looted, the higher my chances where of an empty container. Up to about 87%.

So stop moaning about there being no data. I've done enough due diligence. I've talked to a number of people that have confirmed exactly what I have seen in my limited tests. I don't have the code. I don't have a team of testers. I don't have some magic insight other than the PTS notes that clearly state that they are reducing the probability of getting recipes and motifs. And I have been around long enough and played enough of these types of games to know that these things make it into patches all the time without any mention.

As a side note, I just spent 45 minutes in Reaper's March trying to buy motifs. 1 person was selling a primal and he wanted 30k for it. Last week, they were selling for around 10k and there were at least 3 or 4 people selling them on Saturday night. I had a buddy tell me he saw one for 5k. Then I went to V1 Davon's Watch and spent 30 minutes asking in zone if anyone was selling motifs. Not a single person was selling a 10-14 motif. Then I went to Coldharbor. Again, not a single person selling any of the motifs. So I asked in chat what the deal was. I got responses from 4 different people that it had been nerfed. This is on a Saturday night. While this certainly doesn't "prove" anything, even the skeptics have to be thinking this is pretty damn coincidental.

Lastly, I really don't give a flying F about the nerf. I could care less. What I have said all along with a ton of other people is we just want to know it happened.

Jarvius

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Jarvius wrote: »

What I recognized today: In the city, I had a percentage of 100% empty (yes, 100%. I did not find ANY drawer, cupboard, barrel whatever with anything inside) for checking every building in the city.
As soon as I left the city to continue with my quests, I found the usual percentage of food in barrels, crates, etc again like before.

So it looks to me that actually only the houses in the city have been changed.
Also I received a food recipe as a mob drop today. This was the first time for me, so I don't know if this was already the case before.

But when I was in the city today, I had a 100% drop rate in the cupboards, while anything outside of the city was 0%.

So clearly, my game has a bug that makes it think I'm in the city when I'm in the country. Because random chance has no effect on anything ever.

The only thing that I have is a 100% hit chance of my head -> table when I read your nonsense posts.

Iago

Since the last update it takes me about 20 min to log in because I keep getting either error 200 or 108 then I play for about 5 to 20 min and then I lag so bad I have to completely quit the game and then spend another 20 min trying to relog back in. I have not submitted a complaint ticket yet as they are supposed to be doing a big update soon and I hope that update clears up this mess.

nerevarine1138

Jarvius wrote: »

The only thing that I have is a 100% hit chance of my head -> table when I read your nonsense posts.

I love this. It's like being back on the WoW forums with the "I never win loot rolls! Haxxors!" threads.

RNG is RNG. You cannot collect data or simply record your perceptions from post-patch and pretend that it's in any way valid as a comparative data set. Every single person on this thread is suffering from Red Car Syndrome, in that you didn't notice the "changes" before, because you weren't watching for them. It's like complaining that the slot machine you won money on yesterday has been changed because today you're losing.

It was possible to open a container not marked as empty and have it end up being empty pre-patch. It is still possible for that to happen. Random is random is random.

Darkreign

When you walk into an instance, and proceed through finding very single chest,crate,bag,trunk,urn,drawer ect ect ect, mark as empty and looking like it has just been looted, something is wrong, very wrong. Each of these "boxes" are instanced to the player, they should not look looted, and they should not all be empty. There is absolutely no point in exploring/searching whole instances of empty, looted items. I just love fighting my way down to a boss and getting 2 gold (not even enough to cover decay) when I get there.
I have come to the conclusion that the PC version of the game is the paid beta for the console. Im not enjoying the game I paid £70.00 quid for, plus the sub ofcourse. This isn't good enough to be a pay to play, in its current state.

Vanathi

I'm also running into lootable objects with no loot. Trunks, wardrobes, sacks, boxes, ALL types of lootable objects (except treasure chests) frequently have nothing inside.

nerevarine1138

Darkreign wrote: »

When you walk into an instance, and proceed through finding very single chest,crate,bag,trunk,urn,drawer ect ect ect, mark as empty and looking like it has just been looted, something is wrong, very wrong. Each of these "boxes" are instanced to the player, they should not look looted, and they should not all be empty. There is absolutely no point in exploring/searching whole instances of empty, looted items. I just love fighting my way down to a boss and getting 2 gold (not even enough to cover decay) when I get there.
I have come to the conclusion that the PC version of the game is the paid beta for the console. Im not enjoying the game I paid £70.00 quid for, plus the sub ofcourse. This isn't good enough to be a pay to play, in its current state.

I agree. Whenever I get a boss down and don't get a purple item, clearly the RNG is broken. Because random is only random when it benefits me. If it doesn't, then random is broken.

Darkreign

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Darkreign wrote: »

When you walk into an instance, and proceed through finding very single chest,crate,bag,trunk,urn,drawer ect ect ect, mark as empty and looking like it has just been looted, something is wrong, very wrong. Each of these "boxes" are instanced to the player, they should not look looted, and they should not all be empty. There is absolutely no point in exploring/searching whole instances of empty, looted items. I just love fighting my way down to a boss and getting 2 gold (not even enough to cover decay) when I get there.
I have come to the conclusion that the PC version of the game is the paid beta for the console. Im not enjoying the game I paid £70.00 quid for, plus the sub ofcourse. This isn't good enough to be a pay to play, in its current state.

I agree. Whenever I get a boss down and don't get a purple item, clearly the RNG is broken. Because random is only random when it benefits me. If it doesn't, then random is broken.

Gosh, sarcasm I recognise that. Sad fact is, not looking for green. blue, red, purple or any other colour. What I am looking for is the game to feel rewarding enough to be worth playing. Fact is also that the game in its current state is broken for a lot of PAYING customers, those customers vote with their feet. If you wanna see what happens to great games that don't make it because of poor response to customers woes, then cast your eyes over to Vanguard saga of heroes, closes in two months time after a dreadful start 4-5 yrs ago when these very issues were not addressed, in fact, its issues were far less game breaking than this games issues. It was empty within three months and stopped making a stand alone profit in four.

nerevarine1138

Darkreign wrote: »

Gosh, sarcasm I recognise that. Sad fact is, not looking for green. blue, red, purple or any other colour. What I am looking for is the game to feel rewarding enough to be worth playing. Fact is also that the game in its current state is broken for a lot of PAYING customers, those customers vote with their feet. If you wanna see what happens to great games that don't make it because of poor response to customers woes, then cast your eyes over to Vanguard saga of heroes, closes in two months time after a dreadful start 4-5 yrs ago when these very issues were not addressed, in fact, its issues were far less game breaking than this games issues. It was empty within three months and stopped making a stand alone profit in four.

The game's random number generator is not obligated to feed you the loot you so desperately desire. But nice work with the hyperbole. I also like to pretend that I can actually get to a dungeon boss without receiving any gold from killed enemies along the way.

You have plenty of viable ways to get the gear you want: trade, craft, loot or buy. No one else is complaining about a lack of gear.

Darkreign

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Darkreign wrote: »

Gosh, sarcasm I recognise that. Sad fact is, not looking for green. blue, red, purple or any other colour. What I am looking for is the game to feel rewarding enough to be worth playing. Fact is also that the game in its current state is broken for a lot of PAYING customers, those customers vote with their feet. If you wanna see what happens to great games that don't make it because of poor response to customers woes, then cast your eyes over to Vanguard saga of heroes, closes in two months time after a dreadful start 4-5 yrs ago when these very issues were not addressed, in fact, its issues were far less game breaking than this games issues. It was empty within three months and stopped making a stand alone profit in four.

The game's random number generator is not obligated to feed you the loot you so desperately desire. But nice work with the hyperbole. I also like to pretend that I can actually get to a dungeon boss without receiving any gold from killed enemies along the way.

You have plenty of viable ways to get the gear you want: trade, craft, loot or buy. No one else is complaining about a lack of gear.

My point was the urns/drawers/pots/bags already appear looted. They are instanced to the player. If the player has not been there, and they are all empty? what does that say to you?. And im not talking about one or two, im talking about whole sessions of game play.

Darkreign

Im also not complaining about the lack of gear, I don't need it, I can craft anything I need, its the issue of every single container being empty, in houses, in dungeons in the wild ?

nerevarine1138

Darkreign wrote: »

My point was the urns/drawers/pots/bags already appear looted. They are instanced to the player. If the player has not been there, and they are all empty? what does that say to you?. And im not talking about one or two, im talking about whole sessions of game play.

It happens occasionally. If you had relogged, some would have had things in them, or all of them would have. The same way that my slot machine will continue to not come up a winner while the guy next to me is raking in the cash.

It's. Random.

Ohioastro

I've been finding more recipes and motifs from places outside of cities. I think that it was rebalanced to disfavor looting the same spots over and over. This is a good change IMO

twev

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Darkreign wrote: »

My point was the urns/drawers/pots/bags already appear looted. They are instanced to the player. If the player has not been there, and they are all empty? what does that say to you?. And im not talking about one or two, im talking about whole sessions of game play.

It happens occasionally. If you had relogged, some would have had things in them, or all of them would have. The same way that my slot machine will continue to not come up a winner while the guy next to me is raking in the cash.

It's. Random.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Darkreign wrote: »

My point was the urns/drawers/pots/bags already appear looted. They are instanced to the player. If the player has not been there, and they are all empty? what does that say to you?. And im not talking about one or two, im talking about whole sessions of game play.

It happens occasionally. If you had relogged, some would have had things in them, or all of them would have. The same way that my slot machine will continue to not come up a winner while the guy next to me is raking in the cash.

It's. Random.

While I can agree with your last 'random' statement, it's not usually mentioned that it's random within a (usually VERY) narrow/restricted set of perimeters. Many people like to assume random means random with all outcomes possible, when in actuality the RNG is subject to manipulation that leads to very few things being possible within a 1/1,000,000 roll framework.

And most people also like to assume that RNGs aren't frequently broken or misprogrammed in spite of Dev's intentions, and frequently give wildly different results than expected by the Devs when they just stick some code in. There are many documented cases of bad RNG routines that are anything but RNG in common usage.

PF1901

Darkreign wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Darkreign wrote: »

Gosh, sarcasm I recognise that. Sad fact is, not looking for green. blue, red, purple or any other colour. What I am looking for is the game to feel rewarding enough to be worth playing. Fact is also that the game in its current state is broken for a lot of PAYING customers, those customers vote with their feet. If you wanna see what happens to great games that don't make it because of poor response to customers woes, then cast your eyes over to Vanguard saga of heroes, closes in two months time after a dreadful start 4-5 yrs ago when these very issues were not addressed, in fact, its issues were far less game breaking than this games issues. It was empty within three months and stopped making a stand alone profit in four.

The game's random number generator is not obligated to feed you the loot you so desperately desire. But nice work with the hyperbole. I also like to pretend that I can actually get to a dungeon boss without receiving any gold from killed enemies along the way.

You have plenty of viable ways to get the gear you want: trade, craft, loot or buy. No one else is complaining about a lack of gear.

My point was the urns/drawers/pots/bags already appear looted. They are instanced to the player. If the player has not been there, and they are all empty?...

Are they? Most of the time I entered the bank in glenumbra for the first time after logging in all the boards / drawers etc. were all empty already. Same thing with the houses. And that was before the patch. Anyway if this 'stealth nerf' helps preventing the relogging exploit then I guess I'm all for it. If they overdid it with the nerf they can still fine tune it in the (near) future.

Chryos

There should at least be an official response to this. It's either implemented by ZOE to combat bot farmers or it's a sneaky new bot/hack. I would at least like to know if it's intended to combat botters.

BmcD73

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Jarvius wrote: »

The only thing that I have is a 100% hit chance of my head -> table when I read your nonsense posts.

I love this. It's like being back on the WoW forums with the "I never win loot rolls! Haxxors!" threads.

RNG is RNG. You cannot collect data or simply record your perceptions from post-patch and pretend that it's in any way valid as a comparative data set. Every single person on this thread is suffering from Red Car Syndrome, in that you didn't notice the "changes" before, because you weren't watching for them. It's like complaining that the slot machine you won money on yesterday has been changed because today you're losing.

It was possible to open a container not marked as empty and have it end up being empty pre-patch. It is still possible for that to happen. Random is random is random.

You are wrong

BmcD73

twev wrote: »

While I can agree with your last 'random' statement, it's not usually mentioned that it's random within a (usually VERY) narrow/restricted set of perimeters. Many people like to assume random means random with all outcomes possible, when in actuality the RNG is subject to manipulation that leads to very few things being possible within a 1/1,000,000 roll framework.

And most people also like to assume that RNGs aren't frequently broken or misprogrammed in spite of Dev's intentions, and frequently give wildly different results than expected by the Devs when they just stick some code in. There are many documented cases of bad RNG routines that are anything but RNG in common usage.

Are you saying that a RNG can be changed to be not so random? That someone could possibly change the algorithm or parameters to make a result happen more or less often? How is this possible? How can a RNG be manipulated in such a fashion? nerevarine said it is purely random, therefore, it must be! It's all in our perception. We are all suffering from Red Car Syndrome! Even you. This is not possible!

Censorious

Guys, stop feeding the troll(s).

We know something has changed dramatically, much more than the suggested 'slight adjustment' that the patch notes mention.

There's not a lot we can do - no doubt the protest has been noted.
- Can we just drop it now?

Melian

I loot every desk and cabinet I encounter, and ALL have been empty the last couple days. These are not ones I looted before, but new ones in zones I'm just visiting for the first time, and they aren't standing open, either - they're lootable, but turn out to be empty.
I really hope this is a bug.

l-wilson-1986b16_ESO

I for one thought the way that motifs were gained was incredibly stupid and ought to be changed (not by a stealth nerf however because now they will become impossible to get).

Motifs should have always been something that could be gained from humanoid mobs or a rare chance in a pvp reward bag in addition to the chests that spawn around the map. The crafting style stones in containers would have been fine with me.

The problem is now they have nerfed it rather than applying some out of the box thinking on how to make acquiring them more meaningful.

If they nerfed it then it's clear they didn't intend for players to login/logout farm them. Instead of realising that this happened as a by product of poor design, they just made the design worse.

nerevarine1138

I love that a basic understanding of probability is now a qualifier for a "troll".

BmcD73

"a troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion"

You keep saying that everyone is suffering from Red Car Syndrome, that random is random, there is no data, etc, etc. meanwhile, I have provided data (you have not), others have noticed the same change, NO ONE is selling motifs, and the PTS notes clearly state they have reduced the recipe and motif drops.

While no one but ZOS can tell us for sure, all evidence points to a change which is what this entire discussion is about. You come in and say we are all wrong and you are right with zero evidence or data or anything but a reference to red car syndrome. That is a troll.

Elvent

I have been noticing this a lot recently, I thought it was just me. Most of the boxes, barrels, crates have all been empty in dungeons, I never seen it like this before.

Sadly I think this is their solution to the "bag shortage problem" people complain about =\

Natjur

Yes the drop rate has been... fixed and most who have a few are waiting to sell for 'top dollar'.

The rare motifs used to be 5k-20k are now going for 30k min.

In the past every chest, barrel etc, that was lootable (not already marked as empty) would give 'something' from a lockpick, random food/drink, preset provisioner part, recipe or motif.

If the container did not have a lockpick, food/drink or provisioner part, it would always give a recipe or motif. This part was the 'bug', instead is should of been a 'chance to give' a recipe or motif, but it was a 100% chance.

Now it can be empty even tho it does not 'say' empty until after you check.

nerevarine1138

I have explained why 6 data points taken without a comparison is completely inadequate, but since everyone on this thread seems bound and determined to believe this is happening, that must also be trolling. I'll bear that in mind.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Berlis

Nothing in this game is random. There is a design behind every single thing in it.

mongo94

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I have explained why 6 data points taken without a comparison is completely inadequate, but since everyone on this thread seems bound and determined to believe this is happening, that must also be trolling. I'll bear that in mind.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Sorry but I dont recall ever opening something and it be empty. Now I say RECALL because if it did ever happen it was so low like 1% of stuff looted that I didnt care or remember.

BUT the way it is now its closer to 80% of everything I open THATS NOT RNG Thats a NERF to something in the code. Wake up.

Censorious

You're still feeding it.