VR content destroys faction loyalty (also the reason to make alts)

Zephyr

It has nothing to do with faction loyalty, you have saved your own faction, now you have to save the others so that Tamriel is destroyed. Its like preventing a bomb from going off in a city, while a nuke is on its way to your state. It does *** all to help you.

LunaRae

Not sure how you get questing in someone else's faction makes me unloyal... You seem to be comparing it to any other MMO that has factions and forces you to play 2-4 characters in order to enjoy all of the story elements and quests in that game. Factions are just groups that see things in a certain way, and typically not in the same way as other factions. Not here to play word smith but a faction doesn't mean you hate or disprove of everything another faction desires... being able to assist them and quest in their zone is just helping them, while still being loyal to your faction. I really don't know what your point to all of this is, your sense of loyalty just seems absurd, sorry. I'm very pleased I can play one char (I don't even have mules) and enjoy all game content. My only gripe is that as an EP player I won't be able to see or interact with Dominion or Aldmeri players as Veteran players are in a separate instance, which I do not like. Even if it was just towns we could interact with the other faction players I would be much more happy, as I understand it would be difficult to implement a system where VR players roam side by side with 1-49 players.

LadyChaos

Guppet wrote: »

I think the devs have not been clear on what is expected of players.

If they had labeled VR 1 to 10 as levels 51 to 60. Saying you need to complete content for all factions to reach max level. That would have given a far more realistic view to its playerbase.

But being up front about the requirement to do the other factions content, would probably have started the *** storm that they are starting to face right now.

Faction loyalty is something that is sacred to a lot of MMO players.

avoiding spoilers: the final step of storyline explains WHY you must experience your enemies lives before the big bad thing coming...

Catches_the_Sun

If faction loyalty takes a hit in ESO, it isn't because you do some quests in the other areas. If anything faction loyalty is negatively impacted by the mega-server/campaign dynamic. That fellow Pact member standing next to you doesn't give a damn that YOUR Scrolls are under attack because his Campaign is a completely different war. This is why you don't see that same sense of camaraderie & community outside of Cyrodiil that you would in a game such as DAOC.

Taid

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

If faction loyalty takes a hit in ESO, it isn't because you do some quests in the other areas. If anything faction loyalty is negatively impacted by the mega-server/campaign dynamic. That fellow Pact member standing next to you doesn't give a damn that YOUR Scrolls are under attack because his Campaign is a completely different war. This is why you don't see that same sense of camaraderie & community outside of Cyrodiil that you would in a game such as DAOC.

thats just one of many reasons. I read somewhere that they have planned to add filters where you can choose which type of people you are ph(f)acing. I dont see any of these filters for me to choose. Why not doing so by filter the phase through the campaigns? set some campaings as ENG DE FR RU etc and the problem might fix itself. Its like little phasingservers on a megaserver.

Guppet

Its funny how the only person who replied to my hand on heart comment, first said it was great to not have to level alts. So no one actually likes the utterly lame lore reason for why we are doing it.

Its great for those who don't like to roll alts to see the other faction stuff, that seems to be the only reason anyone likes it.

This is going to be the MMO with the least alts ever, which is quite a change the devs have implemented. I know a lot of people love alts and this will not sit well with them.

The big question is how do the numbers of those that only like to have one character compare to those that like to have alts. If the second group is larger, then this could be a commercially very bad design decision.

Currently it does not matter if you like more than one class, your unlikely to have enough time/motivation to VR10 more than one character, unless you have no job, kids, family or other responsibilities (massive generalisation I know).

Valmond

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

darkkterror_ESO wrote: »

I wouldn't say it "destroys" faction loyalty, but after seeing the atrocities committed by the Dominion in Shadowfen I'm not so sure I want to be part of it anymore

Every single faction does atrocities.

No other faction has attempted

genocide

within the game that i remember of.
I mean, sure, i found AD (well, Atlmer) pretty sucky while playing AD faction quests.
But after Shadowfen, whooee.

Csub wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

I haven't entered Cyrodiil since starting the AD quest line as VR content- Daggerfall player, have no interest in the other two factions.

Does going into the other questlines force you into that faction for PVP?
No? Then what's the issue?
Yes? Okay that's a bit silly.

Someone mentioned before that you dont do pvp for the other factions,.you will enter with your original one.

I, for one, cannot wait VR, to see how scumbag my own faction is. (I am an EP player and all I can say is shame on AD in Shadowfen )

Well, playing AD campaign makes them, slightly, more sympathetic.
But going through those zones did not actually make me think highly of them either.

hamon

i have to agree vet content being put back to starter islands in a faction you never chose and or might want to keep fresh for an alt is cheap , not only that you go from saving the world to having to treat even skeevers with respect due to how hard they suddenly hit.. its an overtuned slow grind masked as "veteran" content.

i love this game i'm not loving veteran grind through other factions as the only slow way to progress

PBpsy

What the hell is faction ly

Csub wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

I haven't entered Cyrodiil since starting the AD quest line as VR content- Daggerfall player, have no interest in the other two factions.

Does going into the other questlines force you into that faction for PVP?
No? Then what's the issue?
Yes? Okay that's a bit silly.

Someone mentioned before that you dont do pvp for the other factions,.you will enter with your original one.

I, for one, cannot wait VR, to see how scumbag my own faction is. (I am an EP player and all I can say is shame on AD in Shadowfen )

No you will see that DC is made up of a lot of scumbag milk drinkers even it in their faction. . EP always seems honorable though.

Veteran Rank area gameplay is amazing though, compared to the normal levels.I am very happy that I could advance relatively fast to VR. My only problem is that we can't repeat our starting faction in VR also.
What VR does better:

-no more level imbalance .You are always at the level of all the mobs in an area so you can't over-level or under-level. This allows you to go everywhere you like at any point in an area without being destroyed or bored to death. The zones are much more free.

-no bots in dungeons.

-people are actively grouping to do stuff like world bosses, dungeons and Dolmens since they are rarely soloable.

-crafting for yourself actually makes sense since you will not find something better then you can craft dropping from every other trash mob. I make my sets before starting a new area and I all most always keep it until the end.

-combat is actually challenging

-you don't have to deal with that soulless one story nonsense.

tylarthb16_ESO

Really wish they'd had an implemented alliance based pve vet1-10 pve that is post molag quest and focuses player on the fight for cyrodill and why. reinfocing you loyalty and making you want to fight in cyrodill (ie the longer endgame that will maintain subs).

I'm nearly complete with 1st vet faction (EP->DC) the process has ruined any chance i'll make a DC alt to lvl as the quests are now played through.. thoroughly. My apparent loyalty to EP is diminished (imperial race so no direct racial bond).

The pvp rational and thus pride, motive etc is flimsy and damaged by identity erosion from mixed races due to explorer pack, any sense of outrage/revenge is eroded by vet area quests.

So i'm now just on team red in campaign B

KerinKor

Guppet wrote: »

Faction loyalty is something that is sacred to a lot of MMO players.

Maybe for you, to me they're an annoyance and prevent me playing the way I want to, another aspect of PVP I detest being in a PVE game.

At least ESO lets me play all content eventually on a single character, unlike WOW and Rift for example.

I'm an altaholic and frankly the faction system is a PITA.

nerevarine1138

How is this thread still going?

This system is justified in the game, and it doesn't stop you from leveling alts any more than experiencing the exact same faction content stopped people from leveling alts in WoW.

jmossb14_ESO

LunaRae wrote: »

Not sure how you get questing in someone else's faction makes me unloyal... You seem to be comparing it to any other MMO that has factions and forces you to play 2-4 characters in order to enjoy all of the story elements and quests in that game. Factions are just groups that see things in a certain way, and typically not in the same way as other factions. Not here to play word smith but a faction doesn't mean you hate or disprove of everything another faction desires... being able to assist them and quest in their zone is just helping them, while still being loyal to your faction. I really don't know what your point to all of this is, your sense of loyalty just seems absurd, sorry. I'm very pleased I can play one char (I don't even have mules) and enjoy all game content. My only gripe is that as an EP player I won't be able to see or interact with Dominion or Aldmeri players as Veteran players are in a separate instance, which I do not like. Even if it was just towns we could interact with the other faction players I would be much more happy, as I understand it would be difficult to implement a system where VR players roam side by side with 1-49 players.

are you able to see other VR players of your faction when you go to another faction?

PBpsy

jmossb14_ESO wrote: »

LunaRae wrote: »

Not sure how you get questing in someone else's faction makes me unloyal... You seem to be comparing it to any other MMO that has factions and forces you to play 2-4 characters in order to enjoy all of the story elements and quests in that game. Factions are just groups that see things in a certain way, and typically not in the same way as other factions. Not here to play word smith but a faction doesn't mean you hate or disprove of everything another faction desires... being able to assist them and quest in their zone is just helping them, while still being loyal to your faction. I really don't know what your point to all of this is, your sense of loyalty just seems absurd, sorry. I'm very pleased I can play one char (I don't even have mules) and enjoy all game content. My only gripe is that as an EP player I won't be able to see or interact with Dominion or Aldmeri players as Veteran players are in a separate instance, which I do not like. Even if it was just towns we could interact with the other faction players I would be much more happy, as I understand it would be difficult to implement a system where VR players roam side by side with 1-49 players.

are you able to see other VR players of your faction when you go to another faction?

You only see other VR players of your faction.You never encounter players of other factions outside PvP.

Guppet

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

How is this thread still going?

This system is justified in the game, and it doesn't stop you from leveling alts any more than experiencing the exact same faction content stopped people from leveling alts in WoW.

It's still going due to the game not being available, when people wanted to play it. Also, you complain it's still going, but bump it by posting, not too bright

Also it's not remotely alt friendly. It takes 3 times the time of other MMO's to reach level cap. Also forcing you to do all content of all factions, leaving no new content for an alt to do.

You clearly don't like alts, so it's fine for you, sucks for those who wanted to level more than one class though.

PBpsy

Guppet wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

How is this thread still going?

This system is justified in the game, and it doesn't stop you from leveling alts any more than experiencing the exact same faction content stopped people from leveling alts in WoW.

It's still going due to the game not being available, when people wanted to play it. Also, you complain it's still going, but bump it by posting, not too bright

Also it's not remotely alt friendly. It takes 3 times the time of other MMO's to reach level cap. Also forcing you to do all content of all factions, leaving no new content for an alt to do.

You clearly don't like alts, so it's fine for you, sucks for those who wanted to level more than one class though.

I will make at least two alts at some point because I will want to play all factions in each of the VR rank range. The bad part is that I will actually have to deal with annoying 1-50 leveling chore . I think it's probably you that doesn't like alts since some people level up dozens of characters in games much more repetitive and tedious than ESO.

nerevarine1138

Guppet wrote: »

It's still going due to the game not being available, when people wanted to play it. Also, you complain it's still going, but bump it by posting, not too bright

Also it's not remotely alt friendly. It takes 3 times the time of other MMO's to reach level cap. Also forcing you to do all content of all factions, leaving no new content for an alt to do.

You clearly don't like alts, so it's fine for you, sucks for those who wanted to level more than one class though.

I love making alts. I have two already. Much like I had about 8 in WoW and never felt constrained by the fact that I was repeating the exact same content in that game. And guess what? Before they started nerfing XP requirements, it used to actually take a long time to level there, too.

Shimond

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I love making alts. I have two already. Much like I had about 8 in WoW and never felt constrained by the fact that I was repeating the exact same content in that game. And guess what? Before they started nerfing XP requirements, it used to actually take a long time to level there, too.

I still remember my original 1-60 run in WOW was 13 days played. I think the last time I played it was like 24 hours. Kinda funny how things change.

Eris

My opinion (as a non-PVP player) is that factions in general are disruptive and an artificial method to bar areas of content.

Stories are rife with characters who change loyalties.

Who even said my character gives a hoot about the Daggerfall Covenant? Maybe I am just in it to help the prophet and more importantly myself.

I actually enjoy games that allow characters to cross factions. Take City of Heroes/Villains for instance. You could change from villain to hero, it took some time, but you could do it. That was great. I often wished that I could do that in certain other games, SWTOR and TSW the most recent.

I can see why faction loyalty might be a little more important in PVP, but in PVE it just means that 2/3 of the game is off limited without doing what they did or requires playing an alt which (at least in this game) seems redundant.

nimbli

Going through all the different factions and quests is fine. Once. I will never do it again and this destroys replayability, a huge factor in an MMO as it is meant to be played long term. I have never played WoW, so cannot compare. I played EQ. There if you start a different character race, you have entirely different zones and quests. I have played that game on and off for almost 13 years.

Lalai

I dunno that replayability is actually hurt by having multiple alts. If the game is good, people will get to max on alts that want to. Only time is gonna be able to tell if ESO fits that bill. The fact that you don't have to get to VR10 through doing other faction's quests kinda helps that as well. On the PTS for 1.1 they're playing with buffed exp for PvP. Some people will grind. The only real reason you'd need to visit other areas is for Skyshards, and you get enough of those from 1-50 plus your faction's skyshards/Cyrodiil skyshards that the ones for other factions aren't really needed, even for multiple builds.

For the longest WoW didn't allow you to make characters on another faction for the same server, and even with other factions in other games, the zones typically end up taking you to the same areas. So the different starting zones only last a few areas in before you're repeating quests/areas again. Even assuming the same area is excused because faction is different so the quests are different that's still only two characters in a game, and folks that make alts generally end up with a lot more than that.

So historically speaking from what I've seen in various MMOs, having to re-do the same content has not prevented people from leveling alts in general. It may turn away some people from it, just like having to create alts turns some people away from actually seeing all the content in the game (like myself).. but tons of people will still level them.

Guppet

I am now in VR content and just like i suspected, the justification for it is an utter crock. Luckily they now advertise Craglorn as for VR1+, so I may not have to grind out the other factions.

Gisgo

Bah as a VR10 DC player when im not in Cyrodiil im spending most of my time in Skyrim... the only place where vendors are selling items of my level and monsters are dropping items of my level.

Please give us VR10 vendors in our faction, the place where i would like to spend my free time.

TicToc

If visiting the other factions destroys faction loyalty, then creating alts destroys faction loyalty even more. If you are visiting during the veteran levels you are still a member of your faction, and will PvP as such. If you start an alt in another faction, you are now part of that faction and no longer loyal to your previous faction. You will now be PvP'ing against your previous faction. I would say that is much more disloyal to your faction.

As it is now a person who only wants to play one character will still get to see the content in every faction. Those who play alts can still remain with their guilds and switch out characters as the guild requires for specific situations, and still see every faction. That is something you can't do if your alts are in different factions.

Really just playing devils advocate, as I think the OP's outrage over the situation is a bit ridiculous.