VR content destroys faction loyalty (also the reason to make alts)

Taid

I agree, it actually destroys the bound to your faction. Making this whole 3 faction thing just a farce to implement AvA Pvp. No doubt about it.

But on the other hand it gives you the opportunity to discover WHOLE Tamriel with your personal created character, not just a third of it. I guess the chance to explore the whole World is very important in an MMO with the name of The elder Scrolls which trys to let you wander in a rebuild of the TES Saga.

It also removes the restriction to play 2 additional character in order to explore what i mentioned above.

Well i guess i prefer to accept the farce and continuing explore the whole continent

Guppet

Because details of what VR content entails is not easily findable on these very forums? So I could not possibly have any idea that it just the other factions quests scaled to level 50+.

It's not rocket science. I have no interest in the other factions quests. That does not make me wrong in any way. People have preferences, which are unique to them.

Or are you going to tell me that VR quests are massivly different (ie not the other factions basic quests scaled up) If you can honestly say that, then fair enough I'll happily try them.

I love the gameplay of this game, but this is a really lame way of extending the leveling grind.

nerevarine1138

Guppet wrote: »

Because details of what VR content entails is not easily findable on these very forums? So I could not possibly have any idea that it just the other factions quests scaled to level 50+.

It's not rocket science. I have no interest in the other factions quests. That does not make me wrong in any way. People have preferences, which are unique to them.

Or are you going to tell me that VR quests are massivly different (ie not the other factions basic quests scaled up) If you can honestly say that, then fair enough I'll happily try them.

I love the gameplay of this game, but this is a really lame way of extending the leveling grind.

VR dungeons are massively different.

VR content is territory/quests from the other factions, dungeons, and PvP. If the last one is more your style, you can do that and ignore the other two.

But since you've already declared that your faction loyalty is based entirely on PvP and has nothing to do with lore, I don't see why you'd care about clearing PvE content for another faction. As always, you're welcome to have a preference, and other people are welcome to point out why your preference is internally inconsistent.

RaZaddha

Guppet wrote: »

RaZaddha wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

It doesn't "destroy" anything. As someone who's apparently very interested in the lore, I assume you actually listened to Meridia and Sir Cadwell?

Could you tell me? I'm close to unlocking the final quest, but this conundrum has been bothering me. You don't need to go all detailed spoiler on me(though I don't really care since I already have a general idea on exactly what's going to happen) I'm just interested in the justification. For going to the next factions

You can PM me if you do not want to post it here. Also, tell me if continual Anchors and "planemelding" is justified. As I assume there are still anchors in the game after the MQ?

It is quite simple really , you are given the opportunity to experience the other factions to better understand them.

I do assume it is no spoiler you win in the end , since you always win in ES :P.

I'm going to need more detail than that. I would like to know exactly what was said, preferably.

Read at your own risk.

Meridia says that the world needs "healing", that your part is not over and you must "prepare" for whats coming by seeing how the other factions are so you understand "whats at stake" (my interpretation is that you must lose your loyalty and fight for the world, not only your king, none of the alliances is the "right one"), you have attracted the attention of the other daedric princes and molag bal isn't done yet

My guess is, the story doesn't end at lvl50 it will continue through craglorn and other updates, vr1-vr10 is kinda a placeholder so you can experience all content available and not just reach vr1 and say "theres nothing for me to do".
The OP view of faction loyalty is silly, it's very narrow-minded, theres no real reason to choose one faction over the other and we shouldn't need a reason, we are playing AvA for fun, not for some personal digital crusade.

I'm sorry but who are you to say that wanting to be loyal to your faction is narrow minded? Some of us like character and the ideals of our faction. It's a more than reasonable stand point.

The AVA is supposed to be a crusade against the other factions you are at war with! The factions are not there for fun.

Saying that is like saying we are playing pve for fun so dont need any plot, as plot is narrow minded.

Every side in a war sees themselves as the good guys. Seeing the opposition as the bad guys is a pretty normal thing. If that was not the case, there would be no wars ever.

It is narrow minded because you think VR content is destroying faction loyalty. Being open minded means that you can play VR content and still have faction loyalty because faction loyalty is a feeling, not a constant that can be quantified, so it depends on the player on how much you are "loyalty" you are feeling.

"The AVA is supposed to be a crusade against the other factions you are at war with! The factions are not there for fun."
Yes, agreed, but they are on the lore and you said you don't give a *** about lore. You have a reason why you are fighting in AvA and you have a reason why you are doing VR content, they are on the lore.

"Saying that is like saying we are playing pve for fun so dont need any plot, as plot is narrow minded."
Yes, you don't need a plot, Wildstar barely has a plot and pve can be fun. PvP doesn't need a plot also, but it HAS a plot, a reason for faction loyalty, read the lore.

"Every side in a war sees themselves as the good guys. Seeing the opposition as the bad guys is a pretty normal thing. If that was not the case, there would be no wars ever."
Wat...Modern wars happen because of the money, you will only see "good vs evil" wars in the distant past, but I don't understand why this is relevant... You see your side first then you see how the other sides are just as bad/good as yours, then comes the real loyalty, after seeing how the other sides are, do you really think yours is the "good" one? Thing is, none of them really are.

You want a restriction on other players because you can't experience "faction loyalty"? That's the definition of narrow minded. You keep ignoring the fact that theres a reason in the lore for VR content and then you compare to SWTOR, what if to progress on your personal story there was a questline that made you turn to the black side for a while? Thats exactly whats happening here.
It's just the same quests leveled to vr, cheap? Yes, but you can simply ignore and rush through them. I can't understand how you want faction loyalty if you outright ignore the lore, thats... Just insane. Why do you care so much what other players do with pve content if you only care about pvp and doesn't give a *** to the lore?
Again GO READ THE DAMN LORE.

Guppet

I said that faction loyalty has nothing to do with lore. That does not mean that I don't like lore. That is a massive and incorrect assumption by a few people. I like the lore. I think its very well done and I have not skipped a singe quest speech. I just want to go to PVP hating the other factions, for PVP and character reasons. I know being a RP and PVP player may come as a shock to some, but some of us do exist.

Can anyone that is arguing with me honestly say, hand on heart, that the reason that you end up doing the other factions quests is for any reason other than a cheap gimmick to extend the level grind?

I also know you can PVP pre VR10, I have done a bit of it and mostly in a group, the five times I have gone one on one, I have won 4 times (there are some truly terrible players that think if they jump you they will win). The point is that you are at a huge disadvantage in a one on one with a VR10, if you are not VR10 and you have similar levels of skill. Even in groups, if the groups are the same size, its normally who has the most VR10's that wins (or the most vampires, but that's a whole other can or worms).

Lalai

I don't PvP, and I like that I can go to other factions on my character. It does not destroy "faction loyalty" for me. I don't PvP though. However, I fail to see why they should take away an option I like, just because it doesn't fit your ideal of what the game should be. You don't see me complaining that you can level through PvP just because I don't like PvP in the ESO world. What you're doing is essentially the same thing. You don't like something, so you're trying to take it away from folks that do.

Fact is, you can level through PvP, you don't have to be VR 10 to be effective at PvP (a few of my friends PvP and they manage to do okay pre-level 50), and you don't have to be VR 10 to do Craglorn when it comes out. The only way you're forced into the other faction's areas would be to get the skyshards for each. Not that you really -need- those either. You're given plenty of skill points without them. More than enough to make a few effective PvP builds.

You could just pretend that you're on some recon mission to gain the extra skills and so on if it's that bad for you. I kinda call bs on the whole deal though. Without the lore, you aren't getting involved in questing, and it's not like the VR content has you PvPing for the other alliance, so your faction loyalty there is still in tact. You're not even going to be seeing anyone from the other faction while you're questing there. You're just seeing other areas, with other high level folks of your faction when you take the lore out of it (which you already said you don't pay attention to).

Guppet

Again, I have never said I don't like the lore. Where do people keep getting that.

I'm sure the dev vid about Craglorn said it was content for VR10 (which to be fair means it wont matter to most people for a good few months).

In other games, if you wanted to play through all factions quests, you levelled characters on those factions (you chose to do that). For this game, you have to play the other factions (weather you want to or not, personally I cant stand the dark elves and don't ever want to assist them in any form what so ever, bunch of slavers), unless you want it to take three times as long. Your going to see far less alts as a result of this game decision (which will oddly can give you more connection with your character (due to only having one), just not the faction you chose).

When you get to level 50, they may as well send you an email saying congratulations, you have levelled a third of the way to max level, for the other two thirds, you will not be playing the faction you chose, we know you chose that faction, but meh.

rioinsigniab16_ESO

OP....aside from vague references which are just lore fillers, you DO realise that the entirety of PVE in this game has absolutely NOTHING to do with the war in Cyrodil, don't you? Therefore the PVE content has nothing to do with faction loyalty.

1 - 50 PVE is about you, your soul, Molag Bal, the companions and what's going on in Coldharbour. Nothing to do with the 3 faction war. You choose which faction to start with and go from there.

Now, once you finish ColdHarbour, you get the quest to send you off on your merry way to another faction. You have a choice, you don't have to do that. There are other ways to get through the VR's.

But what you are basically saying is that you want Zenimax to lock people to one single faction in PVE, purely because of the established lore for PVP in ESO.

Guppet

rioinsigniab16_ESO wrote: »

OP....aside from vague references which are just lore fillers, you DO realise that the entirety of PVE in this game has absolutely NOTHING to do with the war in Cyrodil, don't you? Therefore the PVE content has nothing to do with faction loyalty.

1 - 50 PVE is about you, your soul, Molag Bal, the companions and what's going on in Coldharbour. Nothing to do with the 3 faction war. You choose which faction to start with and go from there.

Now, once you finish ColdHarbour, you get the quest to send you off on your merry way to another faction. You have a choice, you don't have to do that. There are other ways to get through the VR's.

But what you are basically saying is that you want Zenimax to lock people to one single faction in PVE, purely because of the established lore for PVP in ESO.

Now that I can get behind. I guess if I really think about it, its the Imperials that we are opposed to mostly in the Covenant. There are some very strong overtones in the quest before you get to cold harbour, that do suggest the factions are truly at each others throats (when you have to get the 3 leaders together).

If the concept of the 3 factions is what's contrived, purely for PVP purposes, then they really should have built the rivalry into the game much more. I guess that's the case though, so Cyradill is BS from a lore stand point then?

rioinsigniab16_ESO

Also, a friend just pointed something out to me.....if you REALLY want to go down the "faction loyalty" route, remember that there are certain quests where you have to choose an outcome. So you could do the other faction quests whilst "role playing" being a spy.

Therefore, you choose "bad" outcomes to undermine your enemies abilities to win the war?

rioinsigniab16_ESO

Taid wrote: »

rioinsigniab16_ESO wrote: »

OP....aside from vague references which are just lore fillers, you DO realise that the entirety of PVE in this game has absolutely NOTHING to do with the war in Cyrodil, don't you? Therefore the PVE content has nothing to do with faction loyalty.

PVE is about you, your soul, Molag Bal, the companions and what's going on in Coldharbour. Nothing to do with the 3 faction war.

Now, once you finish ColdHarbour, you get the quest to send you off on your merry way to another faction. You have a choice, you don't have to do that. There are other ways to get through the VR's.

It may will take you some time in the forum, but sometimes you find such a b*****t like this^^

Please ellaborate as to what part of my post is BS.

Lalai

Your attitude towards lore whenever anyone has brought it up probably lends to the idea that you don't care about it. Basically regardless you don't care how the lore justifies it (which is funny cause I don't think the lore justifies separation into factions at this point in the TES world, but again, I'm not calling for PvP to be removed because of it), you don't like the mechanic, so you want it gone.

In the end it still comes down to the same thing though. I don't like making alts, I still want to see all the areas. I like that I can do that in this game without having to make 3 different characters. You want to take something away from me because it doesn't fit your ideal. Right now you have your option and I have mine. You just want mine to go away.

The only requirement for going into the adventure zone is VR1. Yeah, the mobs are tuned for VR 10, but you can still go in, you can still beat them, and you can still level. That information being based on folks I know playing the content right now on the PTS.

rioinsigniab16_ESO

Guppet wrote: »

rioinsigniab16_ESO wrote: »

OP....aside from vague references which are just lore fillers, you DO realise that the entirety of PVE in this game has absolutely NOTHING to do with the war in Cyrodil, don't you? Therefore the PVE content has nothing to do with faction loyalty.

1 - 50 PVE is about you, your soul, Molag Bal, the companions and what's going on in Coldharbour. Nothing to do with the 3 faction war. You choose which faction to start with and go from there.

Now, once you finish ColdHarbour, you get the quest to send you off on your merry way to another faction. You have a choice, you don't have to do that. There are other ways to get through the VR's.

But what you are basically saying is that you want Zenimax to lock people to one single faction in PVE, purely because of the established lore for PVP in ESO.

Now that I can get behind. I guess if I really think about it, its the Imperials that we are opposed to mostly in the Covenant. There are some very strong overtones in the quest before you get to cold harbour, that do suggest the factions are truly at each others throats (when you have to get the 3 leaders together).

If the concept of the 3 factions is what's contrived, purely for PVP purposes, then they really should have built the rivalry into the game much more. I guess that's the case though, so Cyradill is BS from a lore stand point then?

Yeah, the 3 factions do come together in a quest....but remember that you started in Coldharbour with no soul. You met the Prophet and saw MB. The 3 faction war had nothing to do with any of that. Also remember that the "Companions" are from different races / factions (1 Redguard, 1 Imperial, 1 Nord, 1 Elf + the Prophet). Lastly remember that the two Guild's (Fighters and Mages) trancend the factions as well.

Also remember that a lot of the "enemies" you come across aren't actually connected directly with any of the factions. Molag Bal has no allegance to any of them. And Manni Marco is doing his own thing.

As for the 3 faction war lore itself. It's not BS.
It just isn't a sole, or even a major, factor in PVE content lore.

Taid

rioinsigniab16_ESO wrote: »

Taid wrote: »

rioinsigniab16_ESO wrote: »

OP....aside from vague references which are just lore fillers, you DO realise that the entirety of PVE in this game has absolutely NOTHING to do with the war in Cyrodil, don't you? Therefore the PVE content has nothing to do with faction loyalty.

PVE is about you, your soul, Molag Bal, the companions and what's going on in Coldharbour. Nothing to do with the 3 faction war.

Now, once you finish ColdHarbour, you get the quest to send you off on your merry way to another faction. You have a choice, you don't have to do that. There are other ways to get through the VR's.

It may will take you some time in the forum, but sometimes you find such a b*****t like this^^

Please ellaborate as to what part of my post is BS.

That tells me that you dont even know what you are talking about


This Game is a whole Thing. Its not a Pve Universe with a parallel PvP Anomaly in the middle of the Event Horizon lol! The different gametypes might not effect each other in a major way thats right, but to say that one has nothing to do with the other and that pvp is a little world in its own and pve is just something else where the 3 faction rules dont count is just BS sry.

Do you ever read/hear the Questdialoges? Your personal Mainstory is about Molag Bal, not the entire pve lol! The pve content is to work with your faction and fight against eachs unique Treat's. Sometimes ancients villains, sometimes the imperials, sometimes its for the souverinty ( sry bad englando) of each kingdom. Yes you dont directly attack the other faction, but thats where cyrodiil comes into.

Do you think the 3 faction leader fight each other for the ruby-throne and in their territories outside of cyrodiil they just laugh and drink beer? Do you know that they refused to send troops to coldharbour because they didnt want to reveal their land and lower their efforts in cyrodiil?

Believe it or not, but the pve content introduce you to the continental plot, which includes pve AND pvp. Or do you see any chance to level from 20 - 30 in another faction? no? because they would theoretically kill you especially as a champion of your high leader. \o Emeric

So again, YES, the veteran zones harms your faction loyality you build ( or might build lol, i agree that it wasnt that dramatic ) from level 1 - 50. EDIT: just to make sure no troll annoys me, OFC your high king will not hate you because you quested in another terriotry for vet levels :> but i breaks your personal immersion/feeling to your choosen faction.

And yes, like i said it before in the thread, the vet-zones let you explore the whole game, with a *** plot ( uuuh what would be if you woke up somewhere else booohooo ) and no! right now they is no better way to grind ( if you want ) vet levels effectivly without questing in enemy territory.

thats why.

RaZaddha

Guppet wrote: »

I said that faction loyalty has nothing to do with lore. That does not mean that I don't like lore. That is a massive and incorrect assumption by a few people. I like the lore. I think its very well done and I have not skipped a singe quest speech. I just want to go to PVP hating the other factions, for PVP and character reasons. I know being a RP and PVP player may come as a shock to some, but some of us do exist.

Can anyone that is arguing with me honestly say, hand on heart, that the reason that you end up doing the other factions quests is for any reason other than a cheap gimmick to extend the level grind?

So you want to hate on other factions for no good reason than for the sake of hating? That... is racism. Unless you want rivalry, but you don't need the lore or RP for rivalry, theres a big difference between hate and rivalry, theres many things the devs can do to promote rivalry, but the VR content has no effect on it. I still can't understand why loyalty has nothing to do with lore, without lore you have no reason to choose the green over purple, it just becomes a sport.

So, what you want is to be able to reach vr10 without doing the other aliances quests. Fair enough, but you could have worded it way better and restricting the other players is not the best idea. Yes, it's a cheap reason to go to the other alliances, but it's a fun way, it's enjoyable being able to experience all this in one character for all of those that dislike alts and it's more challenging than the cake-walk that 1-50 was.

Edit: You should be complaining that it's hard to level VR without questing rather than complaining that VR destroys loyalty.

LoreRunner

Guppet wrote: »

...........

Can anyone that is arguing with me honestly say, hand on heart, that the reason that you end up doing the other factions quests is for any reason other than a cheap gimmick to extend the level grind?

...........

Yes, yes I can. I am happy to play other factions with my character because I do not want to create alts. I enjoy running around the world and slowly powering myself up and would be annoyed if I had to create a whole new character just to experience the other lands. I play a game as a single person and do not wish to try to RP 2 others just because the game wants to have something that I consider worthless (PVP factions). If the entire game had a single faction (or no faction at all) and I ran around the entire world as a single character with all the lore being consistent, I would be even happier. As it is, I am content playing a single character and getting all the content of the game.

(Note, I still PVP, but I consider it a side show that doesn't need to have any lore behind it. If it was just, you are team yellow go fight team red/blue to win, I would consider that perfectly acceptable.)

timebandit_b16_ESO

I agree so much with OP its unbelievable. Veteran content and the way its designed is probably one of the worst design decisions Ive seen in an mmo so far..along with no world pvp at all.

This game stinks in the long run...

alienbongs

The choice to make our veteran content the normal questing zones of other factions is sincerely one of the laziest things I've seen in an online game. The story justification for why and how your character is doing this is equally cringe-worthy. I honestly love this game, but I'm severely disappointed that I won't be able to experience any content outside the enemy factions until VR10.

Also, what the hell is the point of creating a new character now? By the time I've got my main up to max rank, I'll have seen and done everything in the standard questing areas.

PvE focuses players got the shaft, for sure.

RaZaddha

alienbongs wrote: »

The choice to make our veteran content the normal questing zones of other factions is sincerely one of the laziest things I've seen in an online game. The story justification for why and how your character is doing this is equally cringe-worthy. I honestly love this game, but I'm severely disappointed that I won't be able to experience any content outside the enemy factions until VR10.

Also, what the hell is the point of creating a new character now? By the time I've got my main up to max rank, I'll have seen and done everything in the standard questing areas.

PvE focuses players got the shaft, for sure.

Altoholics got the shaft, single char players are fully covered.

eNumbra

I haven't entered Cyrodiil since starting the AD quest line as VR content- Daggerfall player, have no interest in the other two factions.

Does going into the other questlines force you into that faction for PVP?
No? Then what's the issue?
Yes? Okay that's a bit silly.

Csub

eNumbra wrote: »

I haven't entered Cyrodiil since starting the AD quest line as VR content- Daggerfall player, have no interest in the other two factions.

Does going into the other questlines force you into that faction for PVP?
No? Then what's the issue?
Yes? Okay that's a bit silly.

Someone mentioned before that you dont do pvp for the other factions,.you will enter with your original one.

I, for one, cannot wait VR, to see how scumbag my own faction is. (I am an EP player and all I can say is shame on AD in Shadowfen )

Singular

cromica81_ESO wrote: »

The only issue I have is after beta testing every faction to 17 I had zero desire to play anything but ebonheart pact.

Wow, why?

I'm playing the Ebonheart and I'm starting to find it drab and dull. In beta, I played the ocean one and found that one pretty fun.

Singular

Lalai wrote: »

The only requirement for going into the adventure zone is VR1. Yeah, the mobs are tuned for VR 10, but you can still go in, you can still beat them, and you can still level. That information being based on folks I know playing the content right now on the PTS.

Oh, sweet! That's great.

Svann

I think more people were worried that they wouldnt be allowed to do other faction content than are upset that they might be forced to.

rioinsigniab16_ESO

Taid wrote: »

That tells me that you dont even know what you are talking about

....snip.....

Good going on completely missing the point of my post there, sport. Try to understand posts, before taking them out of context and aggressively challenging them.

Firstly, I would suggest you re-read what I posted and what the OP is talking about. The OP is trying to understand how the PVE content lore fits with the PVP lore of the game. In short, the PVE lore side of the game hardly comes close to the PVP lore side. So nothing is actually "broken" in regards to "faction loyalty". Now, the fact that the OP apparently was under the impression that "end game" was going to mainly be about PVP, partly explains why his perceptions where perhaps incorrect (see earlier posts).

Secondly, if you ARE in agreement with the OP, then you must be in agreement with the comment that "faction loyalty [is] defined more by PVP anyway. The true rivalries come from having killed and been killed by members of that faction on the field of battle." (this was posted by someone earlier, and the OP agreed).

So, how exactly does ESO's current **PVE** content post level 50 destroy that "faction loyalty" that is apparently instilled whilst partaking in **PVP** content? The PVP "lore" hasn't changed at all. PVP Loyalties haven't changed. Only the PVE storyline diverges off into the other faction areas post-level 50 for reasons given when you've completed your "Harbourage" quest chain.

So I must turn your question back to you: "Do you ever read/hear the Quest dialoges?" Because if you did, then you'd know FULL WELL how and why you are venturing to the other factions. I won't go into details for spoiling it. But suffice it to say that it has very little to do with PVP content or its lore.

If you want an *RP* reason then think of yourself as a spy examining how "the enemy" thinks.

Now, if you still have a problem with the situation, then just don't go to those places then. It's your choice. There are other ways to level up. PVP is still there to be enjoyed in the same manner it was prior to level 50. Also, as someone pointed out, apparently the new adventure zone doesn't need VR10's.

frwinters_ESO

Guppet wrote: »

I think the devs have not been clear on what is expected of players.

If they had labeled VR 1 to 10 as levels 51 to 60. Saying you need to complete content for all factions to reach max level. That would have given a far more realistic view to its playerbase.

But being up front about the requirement to do the other factions content, would probably have started the *** storm that they are starting to face right now.

Faction loyalty is something that is sacred to a lot of MMO players.

Im a kahjit in the Ebonheart pact. Do you hate me?

Elessie

I actually like that I can experience the other factions without rolling an alt, but I really wish they could've come up with a better story reason for why you are doing it. It was really disappointing to me to not have some concrete reason why my character would be doing quests that undermine her own faction. Some super vague future threat is not enough motivation for me.

Shimond

And here I thought it was cross-faction tells and guild members, along with the pre-order bonus that was 'destroying' faction loyalty.

Here's a hint: it never existed in the first place in this game.

Asava

Well I was going to roll an alt in the other 2 factions. Now I don't need to. I just have to make mules for the craptastic vault space that we get unless I want to start the slave trade so that I can afford to upgrade my bank vaults more that 110.

Gisgo

I dont think its destroying faction loyalty BUT at some point, as a DC soldier, i have been asked to burn DC flags.
Thats not cool, DEVs, you could have implemented a spy plot or something to justify our work into the two other factions.
Im fine helping the people that lives in the EP and AD, but dont let me work for their army.

Cadwell's quest is too much an easy solution.