LGBT Quests

F7sus4

I also agree that the topic should be closed. What was to be said, is said already.

kewl

Kauri wrote: »

Hartmin & Mirilir (Bosmer) - You can find this quest near the "Greenheart Wayshrine" in southern Greenshade. It's not a very long one, but the dialogue is really good and it is sooo sad. This quest made me cry.

@Kauri It was very moving. I wept as well.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Please let the people involved in the quest know they did a fantastic job.

davidpop

Ahnjil wrote: »

Jadakin wrote: »

What I think is awesome is that while the thread brings light to the quests, ZoS nor many at large felt the need to. We are FINALLY getting to the point where it's like - oh it's a same sex relationship - <shrug> on to the next quest. I think that's fantastic. So I agree with the OP, but partly because ZoS didn't make a big deal about doing it and even more that the community seems (for the most part) accepting of it as well.

I don't. Not because I fear gays, but I don't think they fit into a medieval setting.
Players should be allowed gay-marriage of course, but seeing npcs in gay-marriage
is immersion-breaking and takes me from the gaming experience. I don't want Tamriel to be part of the real-life quarrel (right word?)of gays being accepted or not.

How does it not fit in a medieval setting?

Do you think people werent gay before 1960?

Hell in ancient Rome for example it was perfectly normal to be gay(Imperials are inspired by ancient Rome;))

F7sus4

This topic surely needs this.

(*)

Allyah

Jeremy wrote: »

Elirienne wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

@Elirienne‌
I cringe a little on the inside every time I hear the phrase "gay pride" for this reason.

Why do people feel pride for their sexual orientation?

Can anyone imagine someone having a "straight" parade or going up to someone and saying "Straight pride!"? I hope it sounds as ridiculous to anyone reading this as it does to me.

@Allyah completely agree. The word "pride" is greatly overused anyhow, but that's a separate discussion... "Oh we won gold in the olympics, I am so proud to be english" - Err why the *** are you PROUD to happen to have been born in the same country as the gold medal winner, along with about 100 MILLION other people????

You can be happy for her, excited for her, but you can only be proud of something that is an achievement and you had a clear contribution to it. HEr mother can be proud of her. Her coach. Her partner. but not you, average english joe... ppfffh...

So yes, how can you be proud of your sexual orientation? It just *is*. The same thing with race, as well. How can someone be proud of being white? Or proud of being black? It's not your achievement that you are of a certain colour. Be proud of finishing college, or running a marathon, or cleaning the living room, or making a nice cake, as it's something YOU'VE done, and you *achieved*.

*calms herself down*

Ehm. What I was trying to say, is that I agree with you

I agree with you both that having pride over something like your sexual orientation is silly.

But I don't think it's really pride their after. It's acceptance. The same way certain races tend to feel proud about their skin color after years of discrimination. So I would ask you to view it in that light.

So when you see a gay pride parade look at it instead as them saying we are longer ashamed to be who we are rather than them saying they are proud to be gay. Because I think that's really what it's all about.

I understand and agree that this is what most* mean when they say that type of thing. I'm not going to claim that I know a better way to handle the issue of dealing with discrimination or being considered abnormal to a society. However, it still doesn't help anyone assimilate when it is constantly being pointed out by a person that what they are is something other than everyone else.

*most: It's my belief that there are some people who generally [think they] feel proud over things that just are (and that is ridiculous to me).

Jeremy

F7sus4 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

So when you see a gay pride parade look at it instead as them saying we are longer ashamed to be who we are rather than them saying they are proud to be gay. Because I think that's really what it's all about.

This discussion will eventually fall into double-standards talk. Just waiting for a person to pop-up with: "Go out and shout holding a transparent that you're pride of being white heterosexual man and see what happens." etc.

I saw someone circulating a proud to be straight sign on facebook other day. So it happens

Either way, I believe once the culture settles and acceptance becomes more widespread and commonplace the parades and stuff like that will go away.

But to remain on topic - I do like how Elder Scrolls has slipped in quests of this nature since video games have become such a prominent part of our culture. Especially among younger people. So these kinds of inclusions can do a lot of good toward achieving acceptance.

Allyah

Jeremy wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

So when you see a gay pride parade look at it instead as them saying we are longer ashamed to be who we are rather than them saying they are proud to be gay. Because I think that's really what it's all about.

This discussion will eventually fall into double-standards talk. Just waiting for a person to pop-up with: "Go out and shout holding a transparent that you're pride of being white heterosexual man and see what happens." etc.

I saw someone circulating a proud to be straight sign on facebook other day. So it happens

I've seen people with these signs, as well. And I've also noticed the knee-jerk reaction of: "Homophobic ***hole!"

Jeremy wrote: »

Either way, I believe once the culture settles and acceptance becomes more widespread and commonplace the parades and stuff like that will go away.

This is probably true.

Jeremy wrote: »

But to remain on topic - I do like how Elder Scrolls has slipped in quests of this nature since video games have become such a prominent part of our culture. Especially among younger people. So these kinds of inclusions can do a lot of good toward achieving acceptance.

I'm not as certain as you that putting this type of inclusion in video games will help with acceptance because I feel other influences in a kids life tend to be much more important than video games but I do hope you are right. (Although, I sort of hope you are wrong, as well. I can't imagine the disasters that could occur if video games are the main influence in kids lives.)

Jeremy

Allyah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

So when you see a gay pride parade look at it instead as them saying we are longer ashamed to be who we are rather than them saying they are proud to be gay. Because I think that's really what it's all about.

This discussion will eventually fall into double-standards talk. Just waiting for a person to pop-up with: "Go out and shout holding a transparent that you're pride of being white heterosexual man and see what happens." etc.

I saw someone circulating a proud to be straight sign on facebook other day. So it happens

I've seen people with these signs, as well. And I've also noticed the knee-jerk reaction of: "Homophobic ***hole!"

Jeremy wrote: »

Either way, I believe once the culture settles and acceptance becomes more widespread and commonplace the parades and stuff like that will go away.

This is probably true.

Jeremy wrote: »

But to remain on topic - I do like how Elder Scrolls has slipped in quests of this nature since video games have become such a prominent part of our culture. Especially among younger people. So these kinds of inclusions can do a lot of good toward achieving acceptance.

I'm not as certain as you that putting this type of inclusion in video games will help with acceptance because I feel other influences in a kids life tend to be much more important than video games but I do hope you are right. (Although, I sort of hope you are wrong, as well. I can't imagine the disasters that could occur if video games are the main influence in kids lives.)

lol well I do think video games have some impact. Though you are right - other more tangible factors will have a more significant influence.

Having a homosexual friend for example will likely convince someone they are just like normal people better than a NPC on elder scrolls. But I do still believe their presence in the arts/entertainment such as video games and movies etc. help to make the society more accepting. The culture shock (I'll use this word for a lack of a better one) needs to happen so people can learn to be more accustomed to it.

Karnus

I thought it was cool to have a bit more diversity than I have seen in previous mmos. I'm straight' if that matters ( I haven't given much thought about my character's orientation), and I have not felt as though I was being "preached at" by any of the gay or mixed race NPC's.
Both male and female NPC's have been a little flirty here and there, which made me think "Well.. my armor IS pretty shiny."
I just don't see a problem unless maybe you're some kid who has been "oppressed" by having to face the HORRIBLE DILEMMA of finding a new phrase to replace "that's gay".

SuperJChat

Don't take this the wrong way, cause honestly i think people should be able to date/marry whoever/whatever they want, but posting a thread titled "LGBT" is bringing more attention to this than there needs to be. you are just going to incite hate posts and such.

Also hate to be the bearer of bad news, but most posts in here are actually Anti-Heterosexual. Besides if everyone was actually concerned about equality wouldn't it be called "SLGBT" with S = Straight? A lot of people in here are saying "YAY they realize it isn't a big deal and nobody should care" but by doing so you are forcing it onto everyone... isn't that the opposite of what you want?

It should be like "oh yeah gay couple who cares" not "OMG A GAY COUPLE IN A GAME, IM GONNA MAKE A THREAD AND TELL EVERYONE HOW AMAZING THIS IS BECAUSE GAY RIGHTS/EQUALITY YADAYADA BLAH BLAH"

Sorry but equality goes both ways, if you want someone to respect your lifestyle you need to respect their lifestyle too. As far as homosexuality goes, that means that even if someone disagrees with LGBT couples because they are straight, you don't need to preach to them about how they are wrong, just as much as you wouldn't want them to preach to you about how you are wrong.

PS: I've been more irritated IRL by people preaching LGBT rights to me then people telling me that Heterosexuality is the only way and im going to hell cause i have gay friends

Allyah

SuperJChat wrote: »

Don't take this the wrong way, cause honestly i think people should be able to date/marry whoever/whatever they want, but posting a thread titled "LGBT" is bringing more attention to this than there needs to be. you are just going to incite hate posts and such.

Also hate to be the bearer of bad news, but most posts in here are actually Anti-Heterosexual. Besides if everyone was actually concerned about equality wouldn't it be called "SLGBT" with S = Straight? A lot of people in here are saying "YAY they realize it isn't a big deal and nobody should care" but by doing so you are forcing it onto everyone... isn't that the opposite of what you want?

It should be like "oh yeah gay couple who cares" not "OMG A GAY COUPLE IN A GAME, IM GONNA MAKE A THREAD AND TELL EVERYONE HOW AMAZING THIS IS BECAUSE GAY RIGHTS/EQUALITY YADAYADA BLAH BLAH"

Sorry but equality goes both ways, if you want someone to respect your lifestyle you need to respect their lifestyle too. As far as homosexuality goes, that means that even if someone disagrees with LGBT couples because they are straight, you don't need to preach to them about how they are wrong, just as much as you wouldn't want them to preach to you about how you are wrong.

PS: I've been more irritated IRL by people preaching LGBT rights to me then people telling me that Heterosexuality is the only way and im going to hell cause i have gay friends

Some people forget or don't realize that in the process of fighting for their own beliefs, they can trample on those of others.

And the term LGBT is exclusion-centered at best and hypocritical at worst.

I don't have any problem with the "LGBT" quests in game but I do have a problem with this thread and that it has yet to be taken down.

SteveCampsOut

Kauri wrote: »

Sadly I have yet to encounter any transgender characters, but there seem to be plenty of gay and lesbian NPCs around.

How exactly would they be performing sex changes in this particular realm, except by magic, and how would you know if the person had been a different gender at one time and was now magically the opposite gender? There would be no scars or obvious evidence of transgenderism. The only way to know would obviously have to be some sort of dialogue about how they had once been a different gender. That would need to have context and be handled with grace.

Elf_Boy

nudel wrote: »

Ahnjil wrote: »

Jadakin wrote: »

What I think is awesome is that while the thread brings light to the quests, ZoS nor many at large felt the need to. We are FINALLY getting to the point where it's like - oh it's a same sex relationship - <shrug> on to the next quest. I think that's fantastic. So I agree with the OP, but partly because ZoS didn't make a big deal about doing it and even more that the community seems (for the most part) accepting of it as well.

I don't. Not because I fear gays, but I don't think they fit into a medieval setting.
Players should be allowed gay-marriage of course, but seeing npcs in gay-marriage
is immersion-breaking and takes me from the gaming experience. I don't want Tamriel to be part of the real-life quarrel (right word?)of gays being accepted or not.

Tamriel is not Medieval Europe.

Medieval Europe had lots and lots of gay people. Many cultures in the real world have accepted LBGT and have had marriages for everyone.

Elf_Boy

luizterra23 wrote: »

I totally support the LGBT quests, but I feel that something is lacking: Where are the poligamic NPCs?

Dont forget Polyandry.

Elf_Boy

Death - taxes - hate and intolerance. When will our species grow up. Maybe that's why all the aliens wont come and visit this world. Still way to socially primitive.

This thread has made me tired, I am going to bed.

nudel

Elf_Boy wrote: »

nudel wrote: »

Ahnjil wrote: »

Jadakin wrote: »

What I think is awesome is that while the thread brings light to the quests, ZoS nor many at large felt the need to. We are FINALLY getting to the point where it's like - oh it's a same sex relationship - <shrug> on to the next quest. I think that's fantastic. So I agree with the OP, but partly because ZoS didn't make a big deal about doing it and even more that the community seems (for the most part) accepting of it as well.

I don't. Not because I fear gays, but I don't think they fit into a medieval setting.
Players should be allowed gay-marriage of course, but seeing npcs in gay-marriage
is immersion-breaking and takes me from the gaming experience. I don't want Tamriel to be part of the real-life quarrel (right word?)of gays being accepted or not.

Tamriel is not Medieval Europe.

Medieval Europe had lots and lots of gay people. Many cultures in the real world have accepted LBGT and have had marriages for everyone.

@Elf_Boy‌ Okay way to pluck a random quote out without reading the conversation. My statement was a response to someone else who used 'Medieval Europe' and Tamriel's supposed likeness to it as an argument against gay NPCs in ESO. You're preaching to the choir.

Elf_Boy

nudel wrote: »

Elf_Boy wrote: »

nudel wrote: »

Ahnjil wrote: »

Jadakin wrote: »

What I think is awesome is that while the thread brings light to the quests, ZoS nor many at large felt the need to. We are FINALLY getting to the point where it's like - oh it's a same sex relationship - <shrug> on to the next quest. I think that's fantastic. So I agree with the OP, but partly because ZoS didn't make a big deal about doing it and even more that the community seems (for the most part) accepting of it as well.

I don't. Not because I fear gays, but I don't think they fit into a medieval setting.
Players should be allowed gay-marriage of course, but seeing npcs in gay-marriage
is immersion-breaking and takes me from the gaming experience. I don't want Tamriel to be part of the real-life quarrel (right word?)of gays being accepted or not.

Tamriel is not Medieval Europe.

Medieval Europe had lots and lots of gay people. Many cultures in the real world have accepted LBGT and have had marriages for everyone.

@Elf_Boy‌ Okay way to pluck a random quote out without reading the conversation. My statement was a response to someone else who used 'Medieval Europe' and Tamriel's supposed likeness to it as an argument against gay NPCs in ESO. You're preaching to the choir.

I'm not allowed to agree with you? Or add a point?

Grand_Wazoo

MODERATORS please close this thread.

indytims_ESO

I've noticed plenty of same-sex couples in the game so far (having just done the AD side of things, not sure about the other two areas), and I have to say the way they've been presented thus far has been tasteful and low-key.

I don't see any 'grand-standing' that folks have hinted at, and I'm actually quite proud of Zeni for including them without apologies.

Allyah

Elf_Boy wrote: »

nudel wrote: »

Elf_Boy wrote: »

nudel wrote: »

Ahnjil wrote: »

Jadakin wrote: »

What I think is awesome is that while the thread brings light to the quests, ZoS nor many at large felt the need to. We are FINALLY getting to the point where it's like - oh it's a same sex relationship - <shrug> on to the next quest. I think that's fantastic. So I agree with the OP, but partly because ZoS didn't make a big deal about doing it and even more that the community seems (for the most part) accepting of it as well.

I don't. Not because I fear gays, but I don't think they fit into a medieval setting.
Players should be allowed gay-marriage of course, but seeing npcs in gay-marriage
is immersion-breaking and takes me from the gaming experience. I don't want Tamriel to be part of the real-life quarrel (right word?)of gays being accepted or not.

Tamriel is not Medieval Europe.

Medieval Europe had lots and lots of gay people. Many cultures in the real world have accepted LBGT and have had marriages for everyone.

@Elf_Boy‌ Okay way to pluck a random quote out without reading the conversation. My statement was a response to someone else who used 'Medieval Europe' and Tamriel's supposed likeness to it as an argument against gay NPCs in ESO. You're preaching to the choir.

I'm not allowed to agree with you? Or add a point?

If you are agreeing with someone but refuting someone else's argument, you really should just quote the person you are refuting. There is very little merit in posting that you agree with someone. Especially when there is a button that does that for you to save everyone involved the trouble of reading through pages of nothing but "I agree!" You really could have formatted your response better in order to prevent confusion.

indytims_ESO wrote: »

I've noticed plenty of same-sex couples in the game so far (having just done the AD side of things, not sure about the other two areas), and I have to say the way they've been presented thus far has been tasteful and low-key.

I don't see any 'grand-standing' that folks have hinted at, and I'm actually quite proud of Zeni for including them without apologies.

I'm proud of them for adding in different-sex couples without apology. Except I'm not, 'cause it is ridiculous to feel proud of something you had no part of and just as ridiculous (if not more) to feel proud of something that should be accepted without anyone feeling the need to say how proud they are about it.

Karnus

Allyah wrote: »

I'm proud of them for adding in different-sex couples without apology. Except I'm not, 'cause it is ridiculous to feel proud of something you had no part of and just as ridiculous (if not more) to feel proud of something that should be accepted without anyone feeling the need to say how proud they are about it.

Except that you CAN feel proud of someone else for making progress.

Elf_Boy

Allyah wrote: »

Elf_Boy wrote: »

nudel wrote: »

Elf_Boy wrote: »

nudel wrote: »

Ahnjil wrote: »

Jadakin wrote: »

What I think is awesome is that while the thread brings light to the quests, ZoS nor many at large felt the need to. We are FINALLY getting to the point where it's like - oh it's a same sex relationship - <shrug> on to the next quest. I think that's fantastic. So I agree with the OP, but partly because ZoS didn't make a big deal about doing it and even more that the community seems (for the most part) accepting of it as well.

I don't. Not because I fear gays, but I don't think they fit into a medieval setting.
Players should be allowed gay-marriage of course, but seeing npcs in gay-marriage
is immersion-breaking and takes me from the gaming experience. I don't want Tamriel to be part of the real-life quarrel (right word?)of gays being accepted or not.

Tamriel is not Medieval Europe.

Medieval Europe had lots and lots of gay people. Many cultures in the real world have accepted LBGT and have had marriages for everyone.

@Elf_Boy‌ Okay way to pluck a random quote out without reading the conversation. My statement was a response to someone else who used 'Medieval Europe' and Tamriel's supposed likeness to it as an argument against gay NPCs in ESO. You're preaching to the choir.

I'm not allowed to agree with you? Or add a point?

If you are agreeing with someone but refuting someone else's argument, you really should just quote the person you are refuting. There is very little merit in posting that you agree with someone. Especially when there is a button that does that for you to save everyone involved the trouble of reading through pages of nothing but "I agree!" You really could have formatted your response better in order to prevent confusion.

indytims_ESO wrote: »

I've noticed plenty of same-sex couples in the game so far (having just done the AD side of things, not sure about the other two areas), and I have to say the way they've been presented thus far has been tasteful and low-key.

I don't see any 'grand-standing' that folks have hinted at, and I'm actually quite proud of Zeni for including them without apologies.

I'm proud of them for adding in different-sex couples without apology. Except I'm not, 'cause it is ridiculous to feel proud of something you had no part of and just as ridiculous (if not more) to feel proud of something that should be accepted without anyone feeling the need to say how proud they are about it.

Wow. I can see why the word contentious has been used here.

ZOS_AlanG

This thread is being locked due to the discussion repeatedly drifting off topic, both becoming a discussion of itself rather than the topic at hand, and frequently bringing up real-world political issues that should be kept off the forums.