Halls of Torment, Defeat Lyris Doppleganger issues....

Lovely

Here is my experience, maybe it sheds some insight.

I level with my man, we're both templars. We did this at level 30.

> Him: ranged dps (staff), mostly single target; assorted armour (mostly light and medium); he chose Lyris
> Me: melee tank (1h+shield), have pretty decent damage (AoE), a heal, a defensive cooldown; mostly heavy armour; I chose Abnar Tharn


> Other difference between the two of us: He usually holds back some skill points and character points, not sure why and also invested a lot more into professions
> Something that may be helpful: I actually melee the orbs, to conserve mana
> My Abnar Tharn seemed to be slightly useful, unlike Lyris; tends to be stuck 90% of the time but I actually did see him hit a few times
> My man uses silver bolts (I don't) - it's pretty useful for a lot of daedric bosses he says, but not for this one
> My focus is on survival, but also control and AoE (being an offensive tank)
> I'd say there's not much difference between my man and I as players

I had no issues, didn't die. He died so many times I can't even remember. He raged, he didn't want to talk to me anymore, I didn't even understand why he was so pissed off and angry. He did it eventually, but I don't think it was worth the drama.

So... I wouldn't call it a L2P issue... I think it's mostly a skill choice.

Word of advice: there's nothing wrong with going out, leveling some more and coming back; I keep telling my man that, but he acts like a big baby sometimes and dismisses me, choosing to stay there and get pissed off.

Extra (if it's any consolation): We're at veteran content now. He didn't have any issues with any of the other bosses (including Molag Bal) so I guess this boss is maybe at a turning point where some skill choices aren't doing very well.

Good luck

Columba

I kited her and kept invis up on my nb archer. Use aoe when you see the balls, either volley or swap weapons, leap in and aoe with duel wield. I hate pve, so if I can do it, anyone can.

Yankee

Lovely wrote: »

Other difference between the two of us: He usually holds back some skill points and character points, not sure why and also invested a lot more into professions.

I find this interesting. I hold back a few skill points also (not attribute points though). The main reason is so I can pick up a skill or two in a pinch to adapt my alternate skill bar to any fight which might be giving me problems. I also look ahead in anticipation of using a skill when the tree experience opens it up. A secondary reason is that I hate needing another provisioning point to use a food buff and not having one readily available.

I am surprised he did not do that. Or maybe he finally did use some different skills to beat the fight.

Axewaffle

KerinKor wrote: »

Axewaffle wrote: »

I had no troubles killing her at level 30 as a Stam based medium armor nightblade vampire

Well, that says it all really, seeing as how OP Vamps are in most other aspects of the game.

Sorry, but you're making the OP's point, you beat in on-level with a wholly OP 'class'.

Except if you knew how vampires worked, you'd realise none of their abilities would help you in this fight. You cant drain the boss, the bat swarm ulti is less than optimal single target unless you have it morphed, and as a 30 vampire lets assume that isnt the case..

Its less the OP class, and more combating game mechanics.

starkerealm

Shillen wrote: »

Killed her on 3 characters at level without dying once...

No offense, but I hope they don't keep nerfing all these fights.

If you're failing it's because you're not playing well enough. It's not because the fight is unfair. Keep trying until you get it.

If you want a cavalcade of BS boss fights, The Secret World is over there, and loaded with crap like that. You can have your "you're playing the game wrong, suffer peon!" fix. But, that's not what I'm here for, if I wanted that kind of a meat grinder, the Scenarios wouldn't have turned me off the game.

The point of this fight, giving you a boss that's designed around group mechanics, including an unavoidable hold (yes, I know "block", except that has literally never worked, even bashing doesn't interrupt it for me) and spheres that bug out and pop up eight at a time? And this is not a fight that should be happening in a forced solo instance. Let us team up with party members and take them on as a team? That'd be fun. Fight a boss with a "screw you" self heal that's unavoidable? Yeah, that's just not fun. You know, the reason a lot of people play the game? If you want a challenging fight, then sure, take her on alone on your own time and brag about it later. But don't force players to deal with group oriented bosses alone with an AI companion who bugs out and starts sampling the stuff on the table while you're getting murdered because, this one time, your single target focused, Assassin skilled Nightblade is suddenly an invalid build with no warning.

1111scornneb18_ESO

i nearly fall from my cheer cause of the anger i get from this fight... i need to abort it several times to calm down....

same with doshia in daggerfall... for some reason the daggerfall doshia i dont made until lvl 12 the other doshias in dominion i do with 6!

Vhalkyrie

This is a nasty one. I had no trouble with Doshia as I kept her knocked down with Silver Bolts. However, this didn't work with Lyris' doppleganger. It took me 3 times with my bow/dual wield NB, and each try was a very long battle where I nearly got her, then missed an orb or a block, and went down. Watching the real Lyris just stand around while I was hanging on for dear life was frustrating. If only the real Lyris was as much of a bad*** as her doppleganger! I will take Abnar Tharn for my secondary character instead.

Fairydragon3

Vhalkyrie wrote: »

I will take Abnar Tharn for my secondary character instead.

This how almost all the companion NPC's act, Tharn is a little *** too

Axewaffle

The companions are not intended to do anything of substance, they do equal damage with their spells and axes that my three year old nephew with a plush toy can do to his wall. The quests in this game are based on the player performing heroic feats, not supporting a cast of NPCs.

If you are unable to defeat this boss, take a step back analyze the mechanics the boss utilizes, counter them, and if this fails go and level up, get some gear upgrades and try again later.

I'll say it again, the boss is easily killable, but dont expect to get her blood dripping by parrying all her attacks with your face, that just isnt going to work.

Ohioastro

Yes, this one is hard. The key is to slot an AoE ability and to use it to drop the orbs. When I did this with my nightblade I succeeded; when I tried single target attacks I didn't (about a half dozen defeats before I cracked the encounter.) Third person, if you're not already doing it, is absolutely key to success here.

LariahHunding

Honestly, I had much more trouble with the first boss until I figured out to interrupt him before skeleton spawn.

jmrathbun

My Level 35 DK normally kills bosses at level 38 with minimal stress but I found the Lyris Doppelganger impossible. I've noticed the main quest line is VERY uneven difficulty. I think the devs should be very red in the face about this!

7788b14_ESO

I defeated it on my Sorc and DK. On the Sorc it was so easy I thought she was nerfed. But on my DK I saw she wasn't. Turns out my summons had kept her locked down while I aoe'd her orbs and nuked her.

There's nothing wrong with over leveling then coming back.

djwolfnrb19_ESO

I'm on my sorcerer and I can't do it. My AOEs aren't effective and I just don't live long enough to pull off any strategy. As for tab targeting the orbs? That works in other games but my tab key does squat in this one. I have really had a gut full of this game.

djwolfnrb19_ESO

It is the following day and my anger has abated and I'd like to offer a better response.

In this thread there are a variety of responses ranging from "It is too hard" to "please don't nerf it" but it is very clear that several factors like character build play a role in whether this is merely challenging or impossible.

To begin with so much in this game simply doesn't work. Descriptions on items, spells and abilities are either misleading or incomplete and there is no way to know whether an ability is effective relative to other abilities without a thorough research of them all. Consequently, at least 75% of players are running around with builds that are not achieving what they thought they'd achieve.

While many players with a strong FPS background who are highly competent with the FPS style of keyboard controls do well in this game those like me who never played a FPS but played MMOs for years where movement and skills are evenly divided between the left and right hand will not fare so well. The restriction to 5 skill slots added to the fact that a respec costs a fortune and cannot be done one skill at a time prohibits experimentation and leaves most of the 75% with the bad builds as they are until in humiliation and fury they quit the game.

When you add to this the constant lag outs and more bugs in a single game than I have ever before experienced I approach every quest, fight and issue with the question, "is it bugged?" Is my AOE simply not working? Because nothing I have seen so far inspires me with the confidence I need to keep trying with the idea that if I keep trying I will eventually get it.

Finally, while practice and repetition will improve your game skills they will never make you a star. Some people have an aptitude for the skills required for hard content and others just don't. This is why all games include 'hard mode' and epic dungeons that reward the stars with the very best loot and the rest of us all 'ooh and ahh' as they walk past with the "Sword from God." But then, you've removed our ability to be awed by not allowing us to inspect the gear of other players. Why? Is it because there is no special loot? Is it because the "Sword from God" in this game has the same number of enchantments - 1 - the same number and type of traits - 1 - and is merely a different color and does a few more points of damage... but I digress.

So, I understand those players who beg ZOS not to nerf this fight. They have an aptitude for the game and don't want to coast through it without a challenge. But I appeal to those players to see the big picture. If I don't win this fight or return in 10 levels time I am humiliated and I won't want to be a part of something that makes me look like a loser. This is true of everything; people who lack an aptitude for baseball don't join baseball clubs. However, the game must have challenge and an arena for the stars where the rest of us can admire rather than resent them but you don't make this arena part of the story line where everyone from the highly skilled to 7 year-old kids and grandfathers with arthritis have to pass through. You create dungeons where really difficult mobs drop items with two or three enchantments and more than 1 trait. If you don't this game will not endure.

RedMiniStapler

It took me about 10 or 11 deaths before I killed the Lyris' doppelganger. I have very slow reaction time (which is really bad for dungeons or raids). If it was a group raid, i'd be the one who cause wipe and screw up for others, but since it's solo instance, I took my time and tried few different approaches and tactics. Daedric summoning and aoe-run-aoe-run.
It was freaking sweet when I got it down, even though the repair bill was high as hell.
There's no shame in trying after you're over-leveled for it. And besides, no one knows about it unless you tell others. Right now I'm having issue with molag bal, so I'm trying to level up little more and go back there and kill it. I'll play the game however I want and at my own pace.

hauke

I have fought lyris doppelganger with 3 diffrent characters now.

1st sorcerer with twighlight matron lightning aerea effect spell, autronoch ultimate destro staff : twighlight takes agro+ heals, had to conjur it 1 time, autronoch well.. ya know its nice, lightning splashing around her kills the healing balls, easy at lvl 31, absolutely no problem. why are people complaining ? don t get it.

2nd templar heavy armor dual wield close combat dps ...
lvl 30 ... argh, argh , argh... lvl 32 argh argh argh... lvl 35 arrrrrrrgh. lvl 38 argh argh argh omg i made it, this is impossible hard now i understand complains

3d dragonknight shield and sword close combat more tankish build lvl 32, hard hard fight but igot it 1st try... maybe i learned something maybe i got lucky don t know

doniecmb16_ESO

Honestly, wtf the designer of this encounter was thinking. First of all it's a huge difficulty spike for many builds. Second, with laggy combat which is trademark of ESO, it's almost impossible to do it without AOE.
Crap like that makes people quit the game.

AngryNord

doniecmb16_ESO wrote: »

Honestly, wtf the designer of this encounter was thinking. First of all it's a huge difficulty spike for many builds. Second, with laggy combat which is trademark of ESO, it's almost impossible to do it without AOE.
Crap like that makes people quit the game.

I hope you've reported this via the /bug system in-game?

kasain

Just do all the quest lines at 50. Even at 50 this was y hardest storyline fight. But it kept the whole storyline fresh in my head.

doniecmb16_ESO

What should I report? That lvl 30 _solo_ quest has a boss which is barely doable by a lvl 38, because it one shots my character from a distance, spawns 3 or 4 healing orbs in wide radius which bring its health to full, companion does nothing, my character abilities fire up with up to 3 seconds lag, so I can't kill the orbs fast enough without aoe?
This is really bad game design with lag and unresponsive combat on top. Fundamental flaw, not a bug.

Kaspar

I was attempting this fight yesterday and I think I know what went wrong for me. I was fighting the Lyris Doppleganger and it eventually changed into snake form. I remember hitting and killing the orbs to prevent her from healing and make good progress and seem to remember that I almost had it killed and then it must have glitched or something because suddenly it was back at full health or perhaps I died, but I eventually died.

After that No More Orbs were ever visible. Reminds me of the Motes Bug earlier in the game. I literally attempted this fight at least a dozen times and was trying to kill the snake form of the Dopplganger but never a once saw any orbs. It just kept mysteriously going back to full health.

Perhaps I'll go back today and try reloading the instance to see if this was the issue and hopefully get orbs to appear but after wasting 2 hours on it and a 2K gold repair bill my mouth is fouled. Can anyone verify for me that orbs are supposed to be visible during the entire fight while the Doppleganger is in the snake form?

parano1dandro1d

It took me 10 levels over to kill her, but my suggestion if you are a nightblade, use shadow ultimate and then concealed weapon strike, u can get her down fast enough before she even spawns her orbs

zeuseason

I always out-level the main story quests by 4-5 levels.

And to think, players used to complain the game was too easy.

Boneidle

I had trouble with this fight as a templar I had a heal to help keep myself up and I like to play melee although I am beginning to wonder why I bothered going melee at all now since it seems so weak and buggy.

So first time I went in the whole encounter was bugged the sanke stood still healing itself no visible actions no movement yet my hep was dropping down faster than I could heal up, yes I reported it as a bug but I didn't even get a email response saying thanks we are looking into it.

So I went away and came back 5 levels later only to find that yes the snake now at least showed animations during her attacks which made it so I was able to avoid her attacks, however she get stuck on a table and wouldn't move and it made it impossible to kill the orbs so yet again in a fit of rage I shouted at her to "F*** off" and left again, I think she heard me as before I could leave to head back to Tamriel the game crashed and i just didn't have it in me to restart and go again.

So the next day after calming down i tried again, this time she didn't get stuck on a table and she moved into more of a open area to fight her in, using an aoe ability to hit the orbs when they was right on top of her kept me at full hp and i just had to avoid her frontal cone attack constantly. Dancing around her and killing the orbs she dropped so fast it was unbelievable.

Although I think that I made a mistake from the very beginning of this mission by taking Lyris with me instead of Tharn simply because she runs in gets aggro is reduced to 0 hp and just stands in the bloody way, about 2 mins after she reached 0 she gets back up and runs into pretty much do the same again.

This fight I got the feeling is pretty buggy and it really does depend on whether or not you are lucky to kill it a lot of the time. I also think that having an AoE ability to take down the orbs is a must have for the fight as well its not like the other snakes you meet before her if you don't control the fight in your favour then you are just going to get b***h slapped face first into the floor.

Westcoast14_ESO

OK after reading the posts it makes more sense to me. It sounds like if you don't have the kinds of AoE skills that can easily take out the health globes, the fight is difficult.

I don't really remember the fight other than I did it on a DW NB with a single target bar and an AoE bar with whirling blades. I'm pretty sure if I had wiped a substantial number of times I would have remembered. I did take Lyris since I never take Tharn (since he's an ***, although a brilliantly voice acted one). So I'm guessing whirling blades is what made a difference.

Astarielle

It's good to read a lot of people had problems with this. I tried on my 32 sorc, and died twice on my dps build very quickly. Then I switched to pet and healing build. This turned into an epic 10 minute battle. Lyra will wake up if you heal her, and she returned to the fight a few times. The key for me was seeing she was attacking the balls and so I switched to using staff attacks to kill balls while healing my clannfear and Lyra as much as possible.

On my dps build the boss before had been easy, just ignore skeletons, kite and kill him. The final boss I was dreading as I thought it would be harder than the Lyra snake boss, but it was all over in 10 seconds.

While I do try to listen to quests, I do find the quest dialogues in the game pretty uninteresting and started skipping a lot - was there a clue to the fight mechanics in the dialogue that I missed?

WhimsyDragon

I don't know that there are any specific fight mechanics other than popping the health bubbles, as that makes a huge difference in sustaining DoppleLyris and of course attempting to dodge attacks. I would assume RealLyris is bugged when she does not assist, since it's so random. After many deaths, I decided to give up and return later. It was cake around level 40

Singular

I really, really hope they don't nerf this.

Sure, I died a couple of times and then I figured out the mechanic. Patience! We don't want every quest to be boring and easy.

Fairydragon3

Singular wrote: »

I really, really hope they don't nerf this.

Sure, I died a couple of times and then I figured out the mechanic. Patience! We don't want every quest to be boring and easy.

took 45 minutes with my crafting character, gave me enough practice that I owned the Fighter's guild finally last night. It's pretty much a one man dungeon boss. stick to your strat, dont get greedy and you will be fine.