Rapid gear decay

Sneak_Thief

I'm posting this based on my observation and experiences combined with hours of testing. I can't confirm but I believe it to be a patch that changed the decay rate as it used to not be an issue for me, but since a couple patches ago has caused me to changed my style of play.

Before: I used to craft armor sets, where I could wear 3 sets for its bonus as I'm a Dual Wielder, I would always make my armor all training, exploration,ect. I have played through many sets of armor and it seemed like I rarely spent much on repairs.

Now: After noticing a drastic change I began to test what exactly caused the decay.

> Armor decay is based on xp gain from mob kills, and I believe chest (but not positive).
> You don't have to be physically hit or even take damage or die, or even fight for that matter for your armor to decay. I know this because as my spouse (grouped) fought mobs even though I was not involved in battle I keep my screen tuned to the inventory page to watch my armor rating actually drop before my eyes.
> I don't have a specific xp to armor decay but I noticed several points drop after half dozen or so mobs were killed.

> I crafted my own armor Barbaric, as well as primal for my wife and I noticed with this bit of testing we did see my armor decayed faster, I suspect that armor made by yourself decays faster, however I cant confirm. But it may be material or possible style based, not sure.
> I was also wearing all training (but so was she) so i think this may have expedited the decay.

> From my own observations I can say my armor cost were about 1k/hour of killing non boss mobs and not dying. This seems to be in line with some other reports.

NOW: I no longer make armor like i used to, instead i wear drops which i kind of like since i end up with some funny or cool mix n matches.
> ON A POSITIVE NOTE: XP awarded at quest completion does not decay armor at all, so I used Wykkids Outfitters to macro a set of training armor to get extra xp and that armor has yet to decay at all.

My Suggestions if any admin sees this:
>Revert armor decay to deaths again, It is absurd that the decay rate is as high as it is and yet you don't even have to get hit for it to decay.
>Why can I, master clothier, take my armor to a guy who sells produce to fix it yet I cant even fix my own armor? PLEASE add the ability to add materials (like Hide to a Hide jack) to fix your armor.

GreasedLizard

Well I dropped 1.2k in repairs after a few hours of questing in Reaper's March. Didn't really notice the total bill until it was over. L44 and created my blue L42 set the day before. I don't AoE farm, and I use a fair amount of CC, bur due to being a healer I use heals to mitigate more than anything >.<

It would be nice to craft every 4-6 lv and not repair, but 2 lv is even impossible if you are a tank or healer it seems.

And don't tell me you make 1.2k in a few hours in Reaper's March. If I get a worthwhile purple drop maybe, but as a crafter I don't vendor everything either

Sucks tbh. Guess I'll roll in crap crafted whites/greens and forget about using my Oil/Denatas

kasain

Does training armor enhance the exp bonus you get when you finish a quest? I thought that was only for skill ups of armor it was attached to.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

okay so reading over some of other peoples observations, i cant help but highly question the notion its about experience point gains. it just doesnt hold up, as much sense as it would make. given that beasts drop hides regardless of level (this is considered loot) and people are complaining about loot versus repairs predominately as an issue, i am beginning to wonder if this is in fact "working as intended." perhaps we need to look at the mobs LEVEL and not the loot acquisition or experienced gained. my information i posted are level 45-46 mobs and i am currently VR1 in level 50 gear whites, with my helm being my only blue.

typically in an MMO, if you fight mobs that are "X" levels above you, you get an experience penalty. this is to discourage you from being level 1 in a level 50 zone, and power grinding there. ESO has stated that they want a "do anything, or everything" leads me to think that a level 1 can go to a level 50 and gain experience, but it will come at a large repair cost. in other words, instead of forcing you to level in a linear fashion (time sink), they intend that you can level randomly but at the cost of farming cash/earning gold (a time sink). it seems that since you can be level 20 and group with your friends who are level 40, in a level 40 area, you will just have to expect that you off set more experience with less loot.

i know the mobs are at the bottom level for me at the moment as i am just waiting on my wife to catch up on levels and quests. i am doing it so i can have more money in the future and the green and above crafting items to upgrade my gear once at VR10.

anyone check their mob levels versus their level? are you fighting mobs at and/or above your level or are they all below your level?

Blackwolfe5

There are so many great suggestion, insights and discussions in this thread. The devs would be fools to not consider alot of the things we have said (aside from the bugs).

I noticed something two days ago, was running along a river in deshaan and killed the occasional mudcrab. I only got 10 xp for each of those mudcrabs it seems, but only seemed to take durability damage from half of them, no matter if they dropped anything or not. They were the same level as me, so what made them different?

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Blackwolfe5 wrote: »

There are so many great suggestion, insights and discussions in this thread. The devs would be fools to not consider alot of the things we have said (aside from the bugs).

I noticed something two days ago, was running along a river in deshaan and killed the occasional mudcrab. I only got 10 xp for each of those mudcrabs it seems, but only seemed to take durability damage from half of them, no matter if they dropped anything or not. They were the same level as me, so what made them different?

i saw mention of there being two different type of mudcrabs- blue and red. red render on-level experience and blue only render 10 xp. i havent seen a big swash of color difference but im color deficient (most call it color blind), so i would probably not notice a difference. mudcrabs could just be a way for clothiers to farm hides with minimal detriment kinda like the "node" resources (ore/runes/wood). you dont get a lot out of them because of that including a repair bill.

this would probably support my opinion that mob difficulty may be the contributing factor on loot and your corresponding repair bill.

Kravn

Interestingly, as a medium-leather melee VR10, I find that to kill an equal-level mob, if I take any damage at all, it's more expensive to kill it than not to. A couple a hits on my armor will cost me 8-10g. The mob will drop 4g. Weeeee! Granted, that's not the full story - If the mob drops a weapon or armor I'll still come out ahead, but if he drops no vendor trash, it's always a net loss.

Maverick827

This system really is a joke.

I went to farm some gold in various dungeons in Coldharbor/Cyrodil. I was getting around 1k/20 minutes just because the repair cost ate into more than half of my profits.

So I thought "well, I'll go to a lower level zone. Sure, the gain will be lower, but at least I won't be taking equipment damage." I guess if you don't get XP from a mob, then they won't drop loot. But if you do get XP, then your gear breaks at an alarming rate, and the costs almost negate the entire farming session.

So you decide to impose the harshest gold sinks for basic functionality in the past decade+ of MMO gaming and you don't even let us farm gold at a decent pace to be able to afford those gold sinks? I'm starting to think you guys want us to buy gold.

I will not be keeping my subscription if things continue in this fashion. I'll come back when you go free to play and I can avoid these train wreck decisions.

traigusb14_ESO2

I'm wondering if it has to do with passives....

We know that passives tend to cut out when you die.

Maybe your armor skill affects decay as a passive effect?

The devs have said that leveling armor and weapons does more than unlock skills. Never was really clear on what leveling skills did outside of that.

Die once without relogging and you have a chance at extra decay (depending on if your passives cut out)? Die a lot, and it is much more likely that you lose passives?

I tend to log in and out a lot for phone calls and needing both my monitors for stuff. it may explain why I am semi-immune even though I die. Relogging fixes the passive cut out (and they don't always cut out).

hrmmm.

SootyTX

To try to get back on track;
Armour decay (as designed) is based on combat with mobs that will potentially drop loot for you (in addition to decay on death) - this was established about 10 pages ago and explains the mudcrab thing from recent posts;

• Not on taking damage (which makes it fair to all play-styles)
• Not on gaining XP per se (see below though)
• Not for gaining IP

Fact - SOME people are are experiencing vastly different decay rates compared to the majority of the playerbase due to bug(s) causing them to suffer decay in non-combat related XP/IP gain situations (crafting, exploration, etc)
Fact - Group related situations are causing increased decay (acknowledged by ZoS and is being fixed per PTS patch notes.

What I don't think has been established is what might be causing these cases of excessive decay for some people, possibilities include;

• Placing a buff on someone that takes armor damage through normal combat
• Specific armour styles or traits
• Crafted vs dropped
• Something(s) else

What we need are more data points - if you do suffer from armor decay due to non-designed reasons, please look for any anomolies. Are certain pieces decaying significantly faster than others? Is you armor all crafted, all dropped or a mix? Is it consistent across all your characters, especially as you play in different alliances and zones?

Please don't just complain about 'repair bills being to high' without any useful context - how much was the bill and how much did you net gain/lose from vendoring drops? what level? did you get decay while not fighting mobs that can drop loot for you?

Just trying to keep this thread useful for those suffering from the bugs and not see it turn into general whining.

Blackwolfe5

@Traigusb14_ESO2 That would be insanity, plain and simple. Surely the devs cannot be that mad. As if dying did not cause enough durability damage.

If it somehow would be like you say, it sounds like something aimed at bots but only punishes real players.

I never knew if armor/weapon leveling did more than unlock skills, but if that is the case, it would be nice to know what those benefits are.

As for the whining, yes there has been whining, but there have also been plenty of constructive posts, that have not been directly aimed at the bug itself but rather aimed at what @ZOS_GinaBruno called "intended". So this thread has become a thread of more than one purpose. As I wrote earlier. This thread is now about three things. 1. The bug. 2. Repair cost. 3. The "intended" rate of decay.

Furthermore it punishes medium armor wearers more than light/heavy, since material nodes can be gathered without combat (and thus without decay) and always drop multiples, while medium armor scraps only drop some of the time, and when they do, it's not uncommon to see drops of only one scrap plus of course the decay when killing mobs within level range.

thilog

Bulwyf wrote: »

It boggles the mind to see @Arwyn confirm that it is not damage but XP that incurs durability damage and no official response to it.

This is right, I've noticed grinding grey quests that my armour rarely gets damaged, even if i die several times to zergs of grey mobs (level 40 mobs btw) yet i have no repair bill. This shows that it is not combat strikes that decides damage to armour, it has to be xp. The higher the xp maybe the higher the damage.. can't be sure on that one. But if i grind level 47-49 mobs for an hour I'm paying out 1k gold without dying once.

Just died about 50 times doing the main quest and my repair bill is zero.

thilog

Maverick827 wrote: »

This system really is a joke.

I went to farm some gold in various dungeons in Coldharbor/Cyrodil. I was getting around 1k/20 minutes just because the repair cost ate into more than half of my profits.

So I thought "well, I'll go to a lower level zone. Sure, the gain will be lower, but at least I won't be taking equipment damage." I guess if you don't get XP from a mob, then they won't drop loot. But if you do get XP, then your gear breaks at an alarming rate, and the costs almost negate the entire farming session.

So you decide to impose the harshest gold sinks for basic functionality in the past decade+ of MMO gaming and you don't even let us farm gold at a decent pace to be able to afford those gold sinks? I'm starting to think you guys want us to buy gold.

I will not be keeping my subscription if things continue in this fashion. I'll come back when you go free to play and I can avoid these train wreck decisions.

@‌Maverick827

This is the fundamental reason that I've stopped playing eso, I was thinking of getting one of those vampire bites for 15k or whatever it is now, so I'm out farming, now there is no doubt, that I am making money.. per hour of gaming, but the loss of gold to item repair is now so high, that to be honest.. it isn't really that I'm losing gold over it, it's that there are obviously developers in eso who think they have the god given right to *** around with us.

Fact is, they don't. We're paying for this game. That gives us the god given right to *** around with them.

As I said.. I've stopped playing the game now, I do jump in every day or two to see if there's any patch or improvement.. until my game times runs out in about 7 weeks.. if there's still no improvement, then at least I'll gain 60 gig in drive space uninstalling eso. (Na an Eu server versions)

starkerealm

SootyTX wrote: »

Fact - Group related situations are causing increased decay (acknowledged by ZoS and is being fixed per PTS patch notes.

"Group related situations" might include areas where there are other players, even if they're not in a formal group. It might explain why there are sharp increases when dealing with Dolmens.

Knottypine

Suggestion:

'Sturdy' currently has a % chance to avoid decay, what if it was changed to a % of slower decay rate all the time?

starkerealm

Knottypine wrote: »

Suggestion:

'Sturdy' currently has a % chance to avoid decay, what if it was changed to a % of slower decay rate all the time?

It actually does that already.

Asava

Well either ZOS fixes repair costs or we're all going to have to buy from the gold sellers just to keep up with the costs of repairs. Especially with Craglorn right around the corner. Who's going to be able to afford to raid except for crafters? I know that I won't be able to since I get to around 40k gold and have to waste it on more bank/bp slots.

SootyTX

Asava wrote: »

Well either ZOS fixes repair costs or we're all going to have to buy from the gold sellers just to keep up with the costs of repairs. Especially with Craglorn right around the corner. Who's going to be able to afford to raid except for crafters? I know that I won't be able to since I get to around 40k gold and have to waste it on more bank/bp slots.

Please at least attempt to read the thread before commenting....No, we are not "all going to have to buy from gold sellers" because we don't all have this issue. I don't, I make a ton of cash just regular playing with hardly vendoring any drops at all. I'm here trying to help the impacted players figure out what is causing the issue for them so we can all enjoy the game. These kind of chicken little posts add nothing.

SootyTX

starkerealm wrote: »

SootyTX wrote: »

Fact - Group related situations are causing increased decay (acknowledged by ZoS and is being fixed per PTS patch notes.

"Group related situations" might include areas where there are other players, even if they're not in a formal group. It might explain why there are sharp increases when dealing with Dolmens.

That's a good thought @starkerealm and reminds me that someone posted a few pages back about playing with their spouse and having radically different costs - I wonder if one was the main buffer/healer?

If I can get time, I'll drag my templer over to a dolman and do nothing but a few heals and make sure I don't get in the fighting (might take a few tries) and see if that causes decay.

Maverick827

SootyTX wrote: »

Asava wrote: »

Well either ZOS fixes repair costs or we're all going to have to buy from the gold sellers just to keep up with the costs of repairs. Especially with Craglorn right around the corner. Who's going to be able to afford to raid except for crafters? I know that I won't be able to since I get to around 40k gold and have to waste it on more bank/bp slots.

Please at least attempt to read the thread before commenting....No, we are not "all going to have to buy from gold sellers" because we don't all have this issue. I don't, I make a ton of cash just regular playing with hardly vendoring any drops at all. I'm here trying to help the impacted players figure out what is causing the issue for them so we can all enjoy the game. These kind of chicken little posts add nothing.

What's causing the issue are intended, bad design choices.

SootyTX

Maverick827 wrote: »

SootyTX wrote: »

Asava wrote: »

Well either ZOS fixes repair costs or we're all going to have to buy from the gold sellers just to keep up with the costs of repairs. Especially with Craglorn right around the corner. Who's going to be able to afford to raid except for crafters? I know that I won't be able to since I get to around 40k gold and have to waste it on more bank/bp slots.

Please at least attempt to read the thread before commenting....No, we are not "all going to have to buy from gold sellers" because we don't all have this issue. I don't, I make a ton of cash just regular playing with hardly vendoring any drops at all. I'm here trying to help the impacted players figure out what is causing the issue for them so we can all enjoy the game. These kind of chicken little posts add nothing.

What's causing the issue are intended, bad design choices.

No, they aren't - there are bugs, as those of us actually contributing to this thread (instead of just bandwagon jumping) have proven. I'll explain as simply as possible;

The design is that you will suffer item decay when you engage in combat with any mob capable of dropping loot for your level. That's it. It's been tested up, down and sideways. It's not XP based, as proven back on page 20 or so, although it seems that way for almost all cases. And its not based on being hit, because that makes it fair - I don't give a damn what's 'realistic' in this case, as a melee player and often tank I'm sick to death of footing the repair bill in other games while everyone gets off scott free. This is an even handed system for all players....but

The problem is that SOME people are being hit by edge cases in group settings especially but sometimes alone (although maybe related in some way to group buffs) that's causing their costs to be far higher than the design.

kasain

So question, does training armor enhance all the weapons you use besides armor? Like if I use a staff of destruction, will I get extra exp if I have armor of training on?

And will I get extra exp bonus if I have this armor equipped? If not what all can I use for exp bonuses?

Thanks

I ask as I can make a full heavy armor training set, but as my armor is lvl 50, I wonder if there is any use of making the set now that I researched it all.

Razzak

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey there, everyone. We're looking into this now, and will let you know if this system is working as designed as soon as we can. Thanks!

Several days have passed. Have you determined if it is working as intended?

Maverick827

SootyTX wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

SootyTX wrote: »

Asava wrote: »

Well either ZOS fixes repair costs or we're all going to have to buy from the gold sellers just to keep up with the costs of repairs. Especially with Craglorn right around the corner. Who's going to be able to afford to raid except for crafters? I know that I won't be able to since I get to around 40k gold and have to waste it on more bank/bp slots.

Please at least attempt to read the thread before commenting....No, we are not "all going to have to buy from gold sellers" because we don't all have this issue. I don't, I make a ton of cash just regular playing with hardly vendoring any drops at all. I'm here trying to help the impacted players figure out what is causing the issue for them so we can all enjoy the game. These kind of chicken little posts add nothing.

What's causing the issue are intended, bad design choices.

No, they aren't - there are bugs, as those of us actually contributing to this thread (instead of just bandwagon jumping) have proven. I'll explain as simply as possible;

The design is that you will suffer item decay when you engage in combat with any mob capable of dropping loot for your level. That's it. It's been tested up, down and sideways. It's not XP based, as proven back on page 20 or so, although it seems that way for almost all cases. And its not based on being hit, because that makes it fair - I don't give a damn what's 'realistic' in this case, as a melee player and often tank I'm sick to death of footing the repair bill in other games while everyone gets off scott free. This is an even handed system for all players....but

The problem is that SOME people are being hit by edge cases in group settings especially but sometimes alone (although maybe related in some way to group buffs) that's causing their costs to be far higher than the design.

You're arguing semantics. Capable of giving XP = capable of giving loot. Veteran levels muck this up a bit, but in general we're talking about the same thing.

Unless these supposed bugs are causing repair costs to be 5+ times higher than they should, then the flaw is with the design. It doesn't matter if they fix some rare bug that makes my repair bill be 2k instead of 1.8k if I only earned 2.2k in the time it took my gear to decay that far regardless. 80% of my income should not go towards repairing.

starkerealm

Razzak wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey there, everyone. We're looking into this now, and will let you know if this system is working as designed as soon as we can. Thanks!

Several days have passed. Have you determined if it is working as intended?

From page 14:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

After thoroughly testing the armor decay system, we found that everything is working as it was designed. However, we did find that there were a small number of cases that may be generating more decay than was originally intended, and we will continue to investigate those situations. We’ve also seen your feedback and do agree with you that the durability was too severe under some conditions, such as while you’re playing in a group, and are testing these changes on the PTS now.

babylon

Maverick827 wrote: »

You're arguing semantics. Capable of giving XP = capable of giving loot. Veteran levels muck this up a bit, but in general we're talking about the same thing...regardless. 80% of my income should not go towards repairing.

The main point to keep in mind is that the reason we get item decay is because it's a PVE Tax, or a tax on drops earned through PVE. That's why being aware item decay is given through killing a mob capable of dropping items (mobs within level range ie mobs that drop) is something important here.

Crescent

Yeah, but considering each quest reward at veteran ranges from 150-300g it's pretty annoying to see that in the hour it takes you to do enough to earn 1k gold via quests you are paying 600g in repairs.

And considering deconstructing is the main way to level crafting, and crafting isn't profitable until you can start crafting 6+ trait set legendary armor, this is a ridiculous gold sink on top of respec costs.

babylon

Crescent wrote: »

Yeah, but considering each quest reward at veteran ranges from 150-300g it's pretty annoying to see that in the hour it takes you to do enough to earn 1k gold via quests you are paying 600g in repairs.

And considering deconstructing is the main way to level crafting, and crafting isn't profitable until you can start crafting 6+ trait set legendary armor, this is a ridiculous gold sink on top of respec costs.

It IS a ridiculous taxation rate given all this.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

@Maverick827 it is not my intent to point the finger at you directly but make a generalized statement to those that don't seem to quite understand.

this is semantics on the surface, but a difference at the base. knowing if it is XP or Loot generating damage, points to an error in code. these are two different systems- every mob that renders xp, doesnt always render loot. so if experience points are the problem, you could receive damage on quest turn ins, which is thankfully not the case. so knowing its not quest experience leads you to look at mob experience. also if damage was based on the experience then there would be some code that allows for a "set" amount of decay (mob type "x" renders % of damage, mob type "y" renders another % of damage). if they tied the armor decay system to experience in such a fashion i would expect that my armor decays more >consistently<. now if you apply the same principal to loot tables, you wont get anywhere near as consistent. mob 1 drops 10g, renders 1% of gold dropped to armor decay; that same exact mob type as mob 1 (mob 2) drops 5g, renders 1% of gold dropped to armor decay. clearly this "theory-craft" system has almost endless amounts of potential armor decay, making it absolutely random in the sense of finding a set dollar amount as a norm is impossible, but could lead to a rough percentage of generated income.

now this is clearly "theory-craft," but its aimed to find a culprit in a system that zos (and all MMOs) dont want you to know to the last bit of coding. as such, looking at these semantics based cases, is often necessary though horrifically time consuming and frustrating.

typically i dont try to explain coding because i know 101 at best, but i tend to get a return of circular argument (the chicken came first, so the egg can be made, to make the chicken that lays the egg... what?). this will be a sort of litmus test lol.

Maverick827

I'm a professional software developer and I have no idea what you just said.

If the high repair costs were due to anything but intended design, then ZOS would have caught it in their testing. If it wasn't intended for your gear to be almost entirely broken after an hour or two of questing with no deaths, and if it wasn't intended for the cost to repair that damage to equal about as much as you earned, then they would have caught it.

But they said it was "working as intended."

A bug that causes unintended item decay in fringe cases doesn't matter when a lot of us feel like repair costs are too expensive in all cases. Whether or not ZOS cares (they don't) is another matter.