Time to speak about balance.Shield bash spam.

Rhythmic

"Deadly bash" skill should be nerfed/redesigned.

2.2k damage bursts for 2-3seconds,with almost no stamina cost.It deals more damage in PvP than 2h sword,DW or bow.
If you meet shielded enemy 1v1 you can run,or being shieldspammed to the death.You can't stun/share/immobilize bash spamming enemy,because he's holding block,and ALL he need to do,to kill you is spamming shieldbash (300,500crits vr1 dk/templar).

That ability should be nerfed/redesigned ASAP.
I asked couple(16persons to be honest) of veteran PvP/Sologankers , (including fame PvP'ers like Kesil),and they completly agree with it.(most of them says its is a kind of bad joke,or "it will be nerfed sooner than bolt escape")

Press RMB to win or interesting PvP?

Increasing shield bash GCD(global coolodwn) would be a good solution.So u cannot spam anyone to death for 2sec charge stun.

Update:

feniks31_ESO wrote: »

Bash is the best single-target melee dps ability in this game at the moment. You just need 3x Glyph of Bashing. Even Veiled Strike(nb) with capped magicka hits not that hard.
http://s12.postimg.org/qzuquvsvx/12973626433376092160_2014_04_19_00002.jpg

Update:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jzKJi_aCBg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_BaTpZNpLY

Ragnar_Lodbrok

What is it with people asking for nerfs. Do you know how many skill points it takes to set that up? Its a one trick pony much like bolt escape.

Schnizle

I love shield bashing, but it's definitely OP.

Rhythmic

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

What is it with people asking for nerfs. Do you know how many skill points it takes to set that up? Its a one trick pony much like bolt escape.

You cannot argument 2k burst damage for 2-3sec with "investing skill points".
If someone can burst you with liturally one button by "investing skill points" , when enemy cannot do anything about it(because he blocked all time),its blatant imbalance.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Its called tactics, get behind him flank him etc. If your pissed because your getting stomped 1 v 1.......

Rhythmic

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

If your pissed because your getting stomped 1 v 1.......

Me and other 16ppls who agree with me.

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Its called tactics

press RMB to win "tactics"

Ragnar_Lodbrok

So a whole 16 of your guildies who might not be good players dislike it?

Rhythmic

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

So a whole 16 of your guildies who might not be good players dislike it?

Im glad you are atacking me personally,instead of atacking my arguments.
That's mean u have nothing to say about "press RMB to win "tactics"",which proves you are a troll,or person who use that "tactic".

Quiveringpotato

You know, when there's apparently 300 or so skillpoints available in the game, a 2-3 skillpoint passive can't be used as a reason why not to nerf it. It's also hard to flank mouse turning when the block is a cone radius.

Anoteros

/yawn
Nightblade, vampires, werewolves, most melee weapon abilities have been broken since BETA and you think they're going to fix this?

Rhythmic

Anoteros wrote: »

/yawn
Nightblade, vampires, werewolves, most melee weapon abilities have been broken since BETA and you think they're going to fix this?

...because u have abilitys(9% undead damage for ex.) to counter NB/vampire/WW , and dont have anything to counter shieldbash spam?...

IvoryFox

I haven't done PvP yet but blocking NPCs can be CC'd. So as knockdown, imprisoned (through nightblade, sorcerer), rooted, etc. Doesn't that work against blocking Players?

Btw 1:1 can't be balanced if you have different classes.

Expli

Rhythmic wrote: »

Anoteros wrote: »

/yawn
Nightblade, vampires, werewolves, most melee weapon abilities have been broken since BETA and you think they're going to fix this?

...because u have abilitys(9% undead damage for ex.) to counter NB/vampire/WW , and dont have anything to counter shieldbash spam?...

How about a cc, cc immunity, any given range attack?

And i dont think you did get his point. As of right now, there are SO effin many mechanics that dont work right, in good or bad. Did you know that you and 2 of your vampire friends can kill a whole zerg of enemys with just 1 button? If you're lucky that is.

Tweek

It doesn't need to be nerfed. DO NOT NERF IT.

(I play a Tank trololol)

/sarcasm

I think this skill takes to many points to create and with all the ability's the other class has namely rangers and sorcerers I feel this ability is the only offensive move that a tank has other than ardent flame tree if DK.

Tweek

Also want to add they should not nerf blocking.

If you cannot kill a player because they use a shield and you don't......lol

Kililin

Quiveringpotato wrote: »

You know, when there's apparently 300 or so skillpoints available in the game, a 2-3 skillpoint passive can't be used as a reason why not to nerf it. It's also hard to flank mouse turning when the block is a cone radius.

Are you sure? i think its non directional. Or are you refering to bash direction?

While i dont want to say if its overpowered or not, the disadvantage to blocking is the movement restriction.

I would say bash needs to be instant speed, but with a slightly longer animation. It is the no animation/instant thing, that causes the damage to be that high.

Rhythmic

Tweek wrote: »

If you cannot kill a player because they use a shield and you don't......lol

What an awful argument.

Yes,lets play a game where everyone is vampire or werewolf(done),everyone plays with shield,and everyone with shield spam 1 button to win(done).

But if you wanna PvP balance to be centered around "use a shield" and spam one button to kill everyone...well i bet nobody will enjoy PvP meta around nobrain spamming 1 button,and game will lose alot of PvP community in 2-3month.

Anoteros

Expli wrote: »

Rhythmic wrote: »

Anoteros wrote: »

/yawn
Nightblade, vampires, werewolves, most melee weapon abilities have been broken since BETA and you think they're going to fix this?

...because u have abilitys(9% undead damage for ex.) to counter NB/vampire/WW , and dont have anything to counter shieldbash spam?...

How about a cc, cc immunity, any given range attack?

And i dont think you did get his point. As of right now, there are SO effin many mechanics that dont work right, in good or bad. Did you know that you and 2 of your vampire friends can kill a whole zerg of enemys with just 1 button? If you're lucky that is.

Exactly what I meant

Tweek

Rhythmic wrote: »

Tweek wrote: »

If you cannot kill a player because they use a shield and you don't......lol

What an awful argument.

Yes,lets play a game where everyone is vampire or werewolf(done),everyone plays with shield,and everyone with shield spam 1 button to win(done).

But if you wanna PvP balance to be centered around "use a shield" and spam one button to kill everyone...well i bet nobody will enjoy PvP meta around nobrain spamming 1 button,and game will lose alot of PvP community in 2-3month.

This isn't how PvP works from what I have heard.

I bet you're a ranger or caster, and you're mad tanks can PvP too?

Boohoo cry me a river.

Tweek

Also if my tank shield is nerfed I want my other abilities increased. As this is one of the best moves in a tanks arsenal right now. On top of using my ardent flame abilities and my One handed stamina abilitys.

What you need to understand is, this isn't OP at all. It is what One handed and shield was meant to do. Your only complaining cause it adds to the defense and it is a solid offense move. I think two handed is OP and Rangers are OP. Yet I don't make threads about them needing to be nerfed. If this shield bash is nerfed then puncture and low slash should be boosted....dramatically to do more damage. One handed does very little damage compared to the variety of damage abilities ALL other types of players have.

Also have these 16 people either message me on the forum or bring them into the thread. I don't see anyone agreeing with you at all.


EDIT: Fixed spelling and added a few lines.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Tweek wrote: »

Also if my tank shield is nerfed I want my other abilities increased. As this is one of the best moves in a tanks arsenal right now. On top of using my ardent flame abilities and my One handed stamina abilitys.

What you need to understand is, this isn't OP at all. It is what One handed and shield was meant to do. Your only complaining cause it adds to the defense and it is a solid offense move. I think two handed is OP and Rangers are OP. Yet I don't make threads about them needing to be nerfed. If this shield bash is nerfed then puncture and low slash should be boosted....dramatically to do more damage. One handed does very little damage compared to the variety of damage abilities ALL other types of players have.

Also have these 16 people either message me on the forum or bring them into the thread. I don't see anyone agreeing with you at all.


EDIT: Fixed spelling and added a few lines.

Perfect explanation

Rhythmic

Tweek wrote: »

This isn't how PvP works from what I have heard.

I bet you're a ranger or caster, and you're mad tanks can PvP too?

Boohoo cry me a river.

I am not mad at tanks,im just saying...

Rhythmic wrote: »

2.2k damage bursts for 2-3seconds,with almost no stamina cost.It deals more damage in PvP than 2h sword,DW or bow.

is not right^,and breaking fun to players who dont use it.

I could continue argumenting why 2.2k damage bursts for 2-3secs,by pressing one button which almost not cost any stamina,is not right.

U can buff other tank abilitys to compensate, but as i can say from my tank PvP exp,tanks in PvP are FINE even without abusing shieldbash spam.

PS.

Rhythmic wrote: »

It deals more damage in PvP than 2h sword,DW or bow.

Tweek wrote: »

I bet you're a ranger or caster

.
Read post before posting please.And stop acting like 1button kill is fine.

ZoM_Head

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Its called tactics, get behind him flank him etc. If your pissed because your getting stomped 1 v 1.......

I have 3 characters that use shields.

One of them has no skill points invested in any active skills, all into passive.

It is very powerful indeed, i do not even use my weapon at all with this character.

I am not saying, it needs a nerf, but for you to say "tactics" is just silly.

You can charge into the enemy, and keep bashing and deal huge damage.

It needs to be investigated is what i am supporting, it does more damage than a two handed character of mine with all attributes into stamina.

Rhythmic

Elmojito1000eb17_ESO wrote: »

You can charge into the enemy, and keep bashing and deal huge damage.

It needs to be investigated is what i am supporting, it does more damage than a two handed character of mine with all attributes into stamina.

Thats what im adressing.

Elvikun

Rhythmic wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

So a whole 16 of your guildies who might not be good players dislike it?

Im glad you are atacking me personally,instead of atacking my arguments.
That's mean u have nothing to say about "press RMB to win "tactics"",which proves you are a troll,or person who use that "tactic".

16 agree? Me and 17 people disagree with you, therefore I'm right and your thread is invalid.
I guess you can see why people don't like "arguments" along those lines, it's prolly better to never even mention exactl number of nameless people agreening.

On a serious note tho, as someone said, this is rather extreme "one trick pony" - it's really easy to avoid, even if that means just running. If you keep jumping on the shield, well, then I'm not sure what to say. Not to mention the shieldbasher is essentially dead when they meet 2 people at once.

Admittedly, it could use (and probably should get at some point, especially as to -when- it can be used, rather than how hard it hits) a little bit of tweaking, BUT it's important to keep in mind this isn't supposed to be competitive PvP 1v1 game, when tweaking anything. This "gimmick" is not particularly great or OP outside of that. Tho it's a murder for people who don't pay attention, even in groups, which I may actually like.

Rhythmic

Elvikun wrote: »

16 agree? Me and 17 people disagree with you, therefore I'm right and your thread is invalid.
I guess you can see why people don't like "arguments" along those lines, it's prolly better to never even mention exactl number of nameless people agreening.

On a serious note tho, as someone said, this is rather extreme "one trick pony" - it's really easy to avoid, even if that means just running. If you keep jumping on the shield, well, then I'm not sure what to say. Not to mention the shieldbasher is essentially dead when they meet 2 people at once.

Admittedly, it could use (and probably should get at some point) a little bit of tweaking, BUT it's important to keep in mind this isn't supposed to be competitive PvP 1v1 game, when tweaking anything. This "gimmick" is not particularly great or OP outside of that. Tho it's a murder for people who don't pay attention, even in groups, which I may actually like.

Sorry i cant seriosly talk with ppls who think 1button kill is fine.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Rhythmic wrote: »

Elvikun wrote: »

16 agree? Me and 17 people disagree with you, therefore I'm right and your thread is invalid.
I guess you can see why people don't like "arguments" along those lines, it's prolly better to never even mention exactl number of nameless people agreening.

On a serious note tho, as someone said, this is rather extreme "one trick pony" - it's really easy to avoid, even if that means just running. If you keep jumping on the shield, well, then I'm not sure what to say. Not to mention the shieldbasher is essentially dead when they meet 2 people at once.

Admittedly, it could use (and probably should get at some point) a little bit of tweaking, BUT it's important to keep in mind this isn't supposed to be competitive PvP 1v1 game, when tweaking anything. This "gimmick" is not particularly great or OP outside of that. Tho it's a murder for people who don't pay attention, even in groups, which I may actually like.

Sorry i cant seriosly talk with ppls who think 1button kill is fine.

how can we take you seriously when you take someone elses quote and use my name to make me out to be for nerf?

esiilola

I use shield bash in PvP and I disagree with the OP. It currently does about 200-250 dmg for me (VR1) in PvP. With jewelry enchant to lower its cost I can unload about 15 of them, theoretically 3250 damage. This damage is further reduced by armor and requires the person to stand completely still for 10 seconds or so.

It's strong 1v1, especially against someone with low health. Now here's why it's not overpowered:

1) It's totally blockable. Block reduces its damage by 50%.
2) It's mitigated by armour. You can't shield bash spam someone in heavy armour to death, even if you debuff them first. What's more, you'll be left with 0 stamina to block with afterwards if you try.
3) It's totally irrelevant in group vs. group, as it only does damage to one target.
4) If you block while bashing, anyone attacking you will drain your stamina quite fast. In group PvP you go from full stamina to 0 in about 5 seconds just blocking.
5) Battlefield mobility (speed buff while blocking) does not work. You can simply walk away from someone spamming shield bash with block on. If they don't block, you can stun, knockdown etc. instead.
6) Shield bash spam consumes so much stamina you'll be a sitting duck after. CC break is so expensive it's not doable anymore after bashing some. Also, if someone opens on you and you need to CC break, shield bashing them to death is not possible anymore due to low stamina. Even with veteran stamina pot you can only regain about 400 stamina, enough to survive with block a couple of seconds.

Anyway there's just a few reasons I've encountered in PvP on why shield bash is not that overpowered. The people I can spam to death are those who are below lvl50 and thus have crap for armour in Cyrodiil due to way the scaling works (or doesn't, in this case, was funny having my 1700 armor buff giving 0 in Cyrodiil at low lvl...). With the armour penetration buff granted to all and pierce armour I can effectively make those people have 0 armour. Anyone VR1 or above has their normal stats (ie. their armour buffs work and so on) and thus they are nowhere near as easy to kill.

Prospero_ESO

Tweek wrote: »

What you need to understand is, this isn't OP at all. It is what One handed and shield was meant to do.

Dude, i have seen people attacking from stealth with shield bash one shotting people, this is one of the most ridiculous skills together with bolt escape. There is no question that the offensive part of the skill has to be adjusted.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

Tweek wrote: »

What you need to understand is, this isn't OP at all. It is what One handed and shield was meant to do.

Dude, i have seen people attacking from stealth with shield bash one shotting people, this is one of the most ridiculous skills together with bolt escape. There is no question that the offensive part of the skill has to be adjusted.

And leave sword and shield the weakest weapon in the game? You do realize it has crap for attacks?

Rhythmic

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

And leave sword and shield the weakest weapon in the game? You do realize it has crap for attacks?

You still dont get it?
You can throw away your sword,and play with shield only,because of shield bash ridicoulus burst damage.