Asking for Damage Meter
Kingspian
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I would like to ask for addon that can show dps from other players for dungeons and raids. We have recount and looks great but I wish we had one for other players dps. That'll be really cool!
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Obernach✭✭bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad TERRIBLE IDEA! you know why because then the community imposed DPS gate's will return just like they did for wow. and you know what if my dps is less than that guys who cares...10 -
Wreaken✭✭✭bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad TERRIBLE IDEA! you know why because then the community imposed DPS gate's will return just like they did for wow. and you know what if my dps is less than that guys who cares...
What is stopping me from using basic math to determine your DPS based on crunching numbers from your combat log?
You do realize that even if they don't allow the monitoring of other people, the people themselves will post figures as bragging rights in a bid for healthy competition on who can do the most DPS, which will then become common knowledge and then become a standard or benchmark of where people should be aiming.
The truth is, these types of addons are not the problem, the people behind them using them are the problem, like your attitude towards the OP's suggestion for example.
I'd like to finish with your delusional view of "imposed DPS gates", well I hate to break it to you, but there is already a few fights currently in the game where the Boss gets to 20% hp and enrages, if your group doesn't have the DPS to burn it down, you aren't killing it, plain and simple.
Edited by Wreaken on April 15, 2014 2:40PM
Taemek Frozenberg, Leader of <Epoch Gaming>
Oceanic - Australia4 -
anaxagoras23b14_ESOSoul Shrivenbad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad TERRIBLE IDEA! you know why because then the community imposed DPS gate's will return just like they did for wow. and you know what if my dps is less than that guys who cares...
You should care. If it's a little less than the top then you're right, it shouldn't be a big deal. On the other hand, if your DPS is well below average then you know that you can improve or that what you're doing isn't working and you need to get better. Otherwise, what you're asking for is for the people who are doing above the norm to carry you. If you're in a group that is okay with that then so be it, but at the same time they shouldn't have to and it's selfish of you. Likewise, if the entire group's DPS is substandard you're going to have a very hard time killing things before they kill you.
Tanks and healers have checks as well, just ones that are more obvious than DPS and may not need a parser to be revealed. If the tank takes hits like a porcelain doll but it doesn't matter because the mob won't look at him anyways or the healer isn't healing enough to make a difference then everyone can tell. A DPS parser just sort of levels the playing field.5 -
Ciedoc✭✭✭This is a constant debate in every MMO. "Hardcore" players want to know what they are doing in terms of dps / healing so they can adjust or improve rotations and combinations. Hardcore Raiders want to see what every member of the group / raid is doing as a measure of worth. Are you worth the raid spot you are taking? How do I measure up to others in my raid? Am I worth the raid spot I am taking.
Casual players could care less about how much dmg they are doing, or what others are doing. They see damage meters as an invasion of their privacy because someone will comment on how they are playing their character. I don't care if my "rotation" is optimized...the order I use looks cool or my character doesn't use XYZ skill for RP reasons, or any other number of just let me play my way view points.
Yes damage meters lead to elitesim. Who has the biggest e-peen or who deserves a drop more because they contribute more to the success of a guild / fight. If you are a casual player you don't need them. If you want to be competitive you got to have them. There is no easy answer. Most games now since WoW really have gone to lengths to avoid including damage meters because the topic is so heated. The devs will usually allow you to log your own dmg but not others. But there are ways around that.
In SWTOR there was a couple damage parsers that linked to third party servers. Members of the group / raid would all connect via a client and stream their combat logs live to the third party server that would parse and display for everyone the totals of all the log files. This is most likely the method you will need to use for ESO. A way to stream recount logs to a third party client that combines and displays each members logs. That is if its not a violation of the ESO EULA. That is still to be decided...4 -
Therium104✭✭✭They need to add dps meters. Whether casual or hardcore there is nothing wrong with knowing this information.6
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would like to ask for addon that can show dps from other players for dungeons and raids. We have recount and looks great but I wish we had one for other players dps. That'll be really cool!
This will come. I'm surprised it hasn't already. Though I strongly oppose it - because they are generally used by elite players to pronounce their e-peen or mock other players.
I saw this happen on games like WoW and LOTRO on a daily basis.4 -
Therium104✭✭✭Honestly, how in the world can this be a competitive mmo on the market without the ability to track group dps and hps. Why did they take the time to release this game.3
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Therium104 wrote: »Honestly, how in the world can this be a competitive mmo on the market without the ability to track group dps and hps. Why did they take the time to release this game.
I fail to see what value these meters bring to any game.
If you are doing good damage you should be able to tell without needing some program to tell you. Not to mention they do not take into account a multitude of other factors that are just as or more important than how much damage someone is doing per second.
So they aren't even a good indicator of success anyway. They are just a silly way for players to brag or demean others - or falsely judge the effectiveness of their character.10 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Therium104 wrote: »Honestly, how in the world can this be a competitive mmo on the market without the ability to track group dps and hps. Why did they take the time to release this game.
I fail to see what value these meters bring to any game.
If you are doing good damage you should be able to tell without needing some program to tell you. Not to mention they do not take into account a multitude of other factors that are just as or more important than how much damage someone is doing per second.
So they aren't even a good indicator of success anyway. They are just a silly way for players to brag or demean others - or falsely judge the effectiveness of their character.
Agree 100%
If you need a damage meter to see if others does their job...then you have no place in instances. Keep to public dungeons thats mostly clear.
Unless you have understood it, ESO IS NOT WOW! The encounters here are different. Best dps may be the worst player even.
Teamwork, tactics, overcome and adapt to different situations.....thats your REAL "damage meter"Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"5 -
Thywin✭I cant imagine why they implement group-dps checks and do not implement a tool to measure group-dps. The gragoyle in the vet1 dungeon has 99k health and a 99 second enrage timer. This fight was obviously designed as a dps-check. If a group cannot output 1k dps it simply cannot win this fight (although healing through some seconds of the enrage is possible). So if three players make 250 dps and one player inflicts only 150 (leaving roles aside), the group just cant win this fight. And the way things are now, the group wont ever know WHY they cant win the fight, as everybody says "my rotation is fine" or "i think my animations look cool".
It is sad and will hurt competitive pve a lot. Even every casual or rp player with no intentions to ever do a trial should care about that, as a healthy and competitive pve-scene can only benefit this game and will add to its longevity.Edited by Thywin on May 9, 2014 8:38AM1 -
Gwarok✭✭✭
Oh look another copycat thread:I would like to ask for addon that can show dps from other players for dungeons and raids. We have recount and looks great but I wish we had one for other players dps. That'll be really cool!
Here's my answer.Edited by Gwarok on May 9, 2014 8:40AM"Strive for balance of all things. When the scales tip to one side or the other, someone or somethings gets short-changed. When someone gets short-changed, unpredictability and strife unbalance the world around us...To achieve freedom from greed, from want, and from strife, all parties in any exchange MUST find balance." -House Hlaalu's Philosophy of Trade
"I am ALWAYS very busy, so I KNOW what's best. You need to stay away from the waterfall. TRUST ME, you're better off keeping busy than playing in the stream....Do you know how to swim, Little Scrib?"
"I am but a simple farmer". -Rags'nar LodesBroke
#SKOOMA!
(Juliet):
...it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man.
O, be some other name!
What's in a name?
That which we call a rose?
By any other name would smell as sweet.
Retain that dear perfection to which he owes...
(Act II, Scene II -William Shakespeare's: Romeo & Juliet -1595 A.D.)0 -
tengri✭✭✭✭✭Yes, yes, of course we need this!
Here, let me show what I am forced to use as my damage meter at the moment... *wiggles with a certain... finger*
There!
And it stands up rather high I might add - oh, I am so proud of me.
I don't think anyone could do any better!
Seriously?Even every casual or rp player with no intentions to ever do a trial should care about that, as a healthy and competitive pve-scene can only benefit this game and will add to its longevity.
"Competitive pve scene"?
Just get outta here...
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Draconiuos✭✭✭No MMO that has come out that I know of has a built in dps meter. They have add-ons that let people get a dps meter, but those are made by other players and such. The thing I have gathered from other threads like this is that the way ESO works you can't make a DPS meter that tracks other people's dps. I believe it has something to do with the fact the game doesn't output the damage logs for other players for your client to see. Maybe some one will make one, but it is not the devs job to do so.0
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Thywin✭Seriously?
"Competitive pve scene"?
Just get outta here...
I think you misunderstood: By "competitive pve-scene" i dont mean players "bragging" with their high dps but a scene with (semi-) hardcore pve centric guilds that compete for highscores/besttimes/firstkills etc. It is a good thing!
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Draconiuos✭✭✭
I thought that was what the Trails coming out soon was for. Why do you need a dps meter to brag about something when the leader boards can do it for you?Seriously?
"Competitive pve scene"?
Just get outta here...
I think you misunderstood: By "competitive pve-scene" i dont mean players "bragging" with their high dps but a scene with (semi-) hardcore pve centric guilds that compete for highscores/besttimes/firstkills etc. It is a good thing!
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Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Draconiuos wrote: »
I thought that was what the Trails coming out soon was for. Why do you need a dps meter to brag about something when the leader boards can do it for you?Seriously?
"Competitive pve scene"?
Just get outta here...
I think you misunderstood: By "competitive pve-scene" i dont mean players "bragging" with their high dps but a scene with (semi-) hardcore pve centric guilds that compete for highscores/besttimes/firstkills etc. It is a good thing!
Gonna be as least rude as I can. The answer to your question is that most people are used to it. Without a damage meter they cant show off, they dont know if they do enough damage. They dont know if its the right weapon.
The totaly insaine idea to test for yourself, without numbers, seams to been lost to some people.Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"0 -
Kililin✭✭✭✭You can measure you own damage, this is no argument for a group damage meter.
Edited by Kililin on May 9, 2014 10:01AM2 -
Thywin✭
I know that there are many people here that come from the single-player fanbase of eso that may have never played an mmo before, and that is fine! Dps-meters are not needed to brag, they are neccesary to improve your playstyle and the play of your group, so you can compete with other groups on your level or maybe even the best groups. A lot of fine-tuning is needed to reach a top-spot on the leaderboards. And finetuning is really hard if you dont have the numbers (the underlying mmo-mechanics involve a lot of math!). Think about it like if your modern car has some kind of problem... you could try to dismantle some parts and try to find the problem or connect a dignostic-device and take a look at the error-messages.Draconiuos wrote: »
I thought that was what the Trails coming out soon was for. Why do you need a dps meter to brag about something when the leader boards can do it for you?Seriously?
"Competitive pve scene"?
Just get outta here...
I think you misunderstood: By "competitive pve-scene" i dont mean players "bragging" with their high dps but a scene with (semi-) hardcore pve centric guilds that compete for highscores/besttimes/firstkills etc. It is a good thing!
(maybe not a very good example... I know that the old times when you could replace a lightbulb in your car within five minutes without haveing to dismantle hundreds of plastic parts for 2 hours were better...) ;-)
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Kililin✭✭✭✭
I know that there are many people here that come from the single-player fanbase of eso that may have never played an mmo before, and that is fine! Dps-meters are not needed to brag, they are neccesary to improve your playstyle and the play of your group, so you can compete with other groups on your level or maybe even the best groups. A lot of fine-tuning is needed to reach a top-spot on the leaderboards. And finetuning is really hard if you dont have the numbers (the underlying mmo-mechanics involve a lot of math!). Think about it like if your modern car has some kind of problem... you could try to dismantle some parts and try to find the problem or connect a dignostic-device and take a look at the error-messages.Draconiuos wrote: »
I thought that was what the Trails coming out soon was for. Why do you need a dps meter to brag about something when the leader boards can do it for you?Seriously?
"Competitive pve scene"?
Just get outta here...
I think you misunderstood: By "competitive pve-scene" i dont mean players "bragging" with their high dps but a scene with (semi-) hardcore pve centric guilds that compete for highscores/besttimes/firstkills etc. It is a good thing!
(maybe not a very good example... I know that the old times when you could replace a lightbulb in your car within five minutes without haveing to dismantle hundreds of plastic parts for 2 hours were better...) ;-)
You can measure your own numbers.
If you work in a tight-knit group you can provide your damage parses, maybe even implement something on your website to analyze them at once, but comparing them is super easy.
All of this is just throwing smoke bombs to cover the real reason: judging players for their numbers, and not in friendly environment but as a reason to kick people from random groups.
I don't even disagree with kicking bad players, but the worst players in random groups often sport better numbers than others. You know, standing in bad for dps uptime = good numbers, overhealing like mad = good numbers and so on...
Than they scream at everyone for being bad because DPS-meter...
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Draconiuos✭✭✭
I know that there are many people here that come from the single-player fanbase of eso that may have never played an mmo before, and that is fine! Dps-meters are not needed to brag, they are neccesary to improve your playstyle and the play of your group, so you can compete with other groups on your level or maybe even the best groups. A lot of fine-tuning is needed to reach a top-spot on the leaderboards. And finetuning is really hard if you dont have the numbers (the underlying mmo-mechanics involve a lot of math!). Think about it like if your modern car has some kind of problem... you could try to dismantle some parts and try to find the problem or connect a dignostic-device and take a look at the error-messages.Draconiuos wrote: »
I thought that was what the Trails coming out soon was for. Why do you need a dps meter to brag about something when the leader boards can do it for you?Seriously?
"Competitive pve scene"?
Just get outta here...
I think you misunderstood: By "competitive pve-scene" i dont mean players "bragging" with their high dps but a scene with (semi-) hardcore pve centric guilds that compete for highscores/besttimes/firstkills etc. It is a good thing!
(maybe not a very good example... I know that the old times when you could replace a lightbulb in your car within five minutes without haveing to dismantle hundreds of plastic parts for 2 hours were better...) ;-)
First assuming everyone that disagrees with group dps meters has never played an MMO before is just silly. I have been there done that, had my dps meters to look at everyone else's dps. The thing is that is all the game becomes, is numbers at that point. If I want to play spread sheet online I will log into my Eve account.
Second, to use your analogy why do I need to hook a diagnostic device up to my neighbors car to see if something is wrong with mine? If you are trying to do competitive pve trails with people you don't trust to be honest about their dps, you have bigger problems than a dps meter can fix. There are already dps meter add ons for the game that let you see your dps. The question is why do you need to see everyone else's dps when they can just tell you?
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Kreager✭✭✭I cant imagine why they implement group-dps checks and do not implement a tool to measure group-dps. The gragoyle in the vet1 dungeon has 99k health and a 99 second enrage timer. This fight was obviously designed as a dps-check. If a group cannot output 1k dps it simply cannot win this fight (although healing through some seconds of the enrage is possible). So if three players make 250 dps and one player inflicts only 150 (leaving roles aside), the group just cant win this fight. And the way things are now, the group wont ever know WHY they cant win the fight, as everybody says "my rotation is fine" or "i think my animations look cool".
It is sad and will hurt competitive pve a lot. Even every casual or rp player with no intentions to ever do a trial should care about that, as a healthy and competitive pve-scene can only benefit this game and will add to its longevity.
Totally agree as long as they implement enrage timers, which IMHO is a lazy development tool, people will scream for dps meters. Developers need to stop using dps checks as a tool to measure player competence and dps meters will not ever be needed.
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I wish they would unlock the log like they did in beta. Monitoring your own dps is fine, but it doesn't motivate you to improve. Having always been a casual player, but still top tier dps, there's no excuse for anyone to not be able to pull their weight.
I've never looked down on anyone for having low dps, but I can't take them along for end game challenges if they're not willing to put some of the work in to improve their rotation. What's going going to happen right now under the current system, is organized groups are going to force people to have a meter, and to post their parses each fight in chat so that they can identify a weak link if there is one. Why make us go through the extra work? I hate to use WoW terminology (never even played it), but making it so that people never have to worry about having stupid low deeps is a little too "carebear" for me.
DPS meters = friendly competition.
Locked log = No competition
No competition = no progress
IF you don't like competing, fine. But you also don't get the bragging rights (which if you're a casual, should not affect you)0 -
Lets be honest, with the right additions, you can tell both the max health of an enemy as well as how much damage you personally deal. You should therefore be capable of figuring out how much you're contributing to a fight. Wanting to know how you're doing in comparison to the others in your group really isn't that needed. Possibly useful, possibly annoying to others, but in the end, not really essential.0 -
Rissq✭We already have recount. It shows YOUR DPS, and that's all you'll ever need. If you have friends or a guild then you can post pictures and share your DPS. But you don't need to know a complete strangers DPS. You don't need a streamlined quick-and-easy way to find out their DPS.
The only reason you'd need to know someone else's DPS is in the event that you want to be an *** to them.
DPS meters ruin games. That mod almost single handedly made WoW what it is today. Too many people complaining that their DPS isn't high enough because they only casually play the game? Then let's buff everyones DPS output. Some classes are complaining that they can't hit the same numbers as rogues and mages? We'll let's homogenize all of the classes so they all do the same damage. Let's remove crowd control elements from the game so that everyone can reach higher numbers on the DPS meter.
Look, DPS meters are fun, they make the game more involving, and I like them; but too many people literally base their entire MMO careers around damage meters. DPS meters are a power that's seldom used within reason and civility.
I'm fine with people knowing eachother's DPS. I just think we shouldn't have such fast and easy access to the information. Because we don't always get the right people interpreting the data in the right way.Edited by Rissq on May 11, 2014 6:54PM2 -
I would like to ask for addon that can show dps from other players for dungeons and raids. We have recount and looks great but I wish we had one for other players dps. That'll be really cool!
NO, Just NO. This ruined WOW. All this does is promote bad behavior and Elitist attitude. This game would not benefit in anyway from this add on. There is no reason for you to judge how another player is performing. If this is something that is really that important to you, then maybe this is not the game for you.
The game is fine the way it is. There are many, many first time MMO players that are playing because they are fans of Elder Scrolls. This system would ruin it for them and anyone that is not an elitist jerk.
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Vanguard1✭✭I am thinking a lot of people miss the point of group DPS meters. For example, DPS meters allow groups to check what kind of DPS they are putting out on a specific fight to learn what improvements their group may need to make to take down a specific boss. As we have all seen in ESO, one rotation does not fit all, sometimes having two AOE’s or having a move against undead maybe more important that the high output dps, other times neither of those options benefits the group. Sorcerers have learned that survivability is key in some areas, where dps numbers may not be as helpful. An example of that is you can put out 600 dps on a specific fight but if you’re dead because of the three ads it does not help much, using moves like CCs and pets will lower your dps but keep you alive long enough to kill everything. A DPS meter can show if someone is just taking to much damage and draining the heals. DPS meters are great for showing groups hey it’s not the dps or it’s not the heals, its people standing in stuff or the mechanics are the issue.
Often times dps meters also show threat and HPS, which can help a group to learn when specific things are needed. For example in ESO a lot of staff moves utilize heals over time, knowing heavy damage is coming at this point allows the healer to utilize some of these hot’s better, same if at some point the boss is going to dump agro and go after someone who is second on the threat meter, it’s good to make sure the second person at this point is someone in medium or heavy armor, rather than light. You can have a specific person lower their threat until after an event happens and then open up, all these small keys make the difference between a great group and a bad group.
There is always going to be friendly competition with DPS numbers, and it also helps to know if you’re too low on dps who is not able to get the numbers from their character, is it a person thing, a character thing, or are they offering other key benefits to the group. We all know each race and class has specific advantages, what we don’t know is if in a long fight what the best group make up is going to be. Having 3 melee nightblades in a group may be key for some fights, while others may show having to many melee could cause it to be impassible unless they can also do ranged. Group leaders can judge what each fight needs and make up a team that is comprised of the best make up, without everyone having to be in top gear or getting top numbers, we have seen this in other MMO’s and we will see it in ESO as well. So while there are misinterpretations of the data and their usage, you can always join a guild that uses this data as intended.
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DPS meters like Recount are great for working on your build and maximizing your DPS. This is the way that they currently work in ESO. Leave them be.0
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Sirlex✭✭✭All I can say is Good Luck in Craglorn Trials if you think DPS meters aren't important =]0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭All I can say is Good Luck in Craglorn Trials if you think DPS meters aren't important =]
They aren't important.
Players do not need DPS meters to play effectively.
In my experience, all DPS meters do is act as a ruler for people's e-peen. They also encourage tunnel vision and an obsession for doing as much damage as possible at the expense of everything else.
So if anything, they encourage playing badly IMHO - with a lot of poorly-made characters running around who can do a couple more damage per second but die by everything and constantly scream for nerfs and the gameplay usually suffers as a result.
I have seen this happen on many games.Edited by Jeremy on May 12, 2014 2:32PM5