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Dungeon XP NERFED - Only way to XP is to grind QUESTS
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Weevah✭✭✭People make it absolutist, (sic) quest or quit. I also enjoy the story driven part of the game, just don't see why dungeons should be so unrewarding.
I agree with you absolutely except for one thing. The only thing I disagree with is that dungeons are unrewarding. You get a skill point, a blue item that you can use or disassemble, a chance of loot from the bosses in the dungeon and the exp from turning in the quest that rewards you with the skill point and item. So to me that dungeon rewards you for completing it. Expecting to do the same dungeon(s) over and over again and to continue to get rewarded for it with exp that would allow you to skip a huge part of the game, which is quests and story progression would take away from the game entirely because people would not have the slightest clue as to what is going on.
Most people who want to just "do dungeons" are most of the time the same people who do not speak to one another at all in the dungeons and just kill the mobs and bosses. These same people also try and face roll the content and when they die to simple mechanics that could've been easily avoided like blocking a heavy attack or running out of the HUGE red circle around the boss, they complain that it is too hard or that the healer sucks and that the game is broken and needs to be fixed.
I bring this up because for me, grouping with these people is the worst experience I have had with this game. Being a healer, I am not going to waste my resources on someone who is being willfully ignorant to what is happening around them and not communicating with their party. I don't want to play this game with those people. It completely ruins the whole group experience because you are not playing as a group, you are playing solo with three other people who are also playing solo. Slightly off topic but I digress.
Between the dark anchors, world bosses, public dungeons (each zone has one PD that has a group challenge that also rewards a skill point not to mention that every public dungeon has a skyshard in it that also reward skill points for every 3 collected), instanced dungeons, Cyrodiil PvE.....AND meeting people and grouping up with them to explore and quest together AND grouping up to do the adventure zones, all of these things reward you for completing them except the last two which are more for people who find meeting people and completing story based objectives rewarding instead of actual skill points and loot.
If they continued to reward you with exp after the initial clear, what would be the incentive to quest? The incentive for the group content is still their via loot, skill points, quests completions for the exp bonus etc... the incentive for quests is still there with the amazing story progression and the exp that comes along with completing the content AND most big quest chains reward skill points as well for completing them.
I just do dungeons. I can't speak for these "most" people you are referring to but I am not one of them.
When I'm healing new and/or lazy players through dungeons is never a faceroll. If I wasn't dedicated to it we would wipe. But I love it for the challenge it brings. It makes me a better healer. I not only learn the mechanics but compensate for the failure of others to do so. And nobody ever tells me I "suck" at healing.
But that's just me.
The fact that you mainly encountered people using a solo playstyle in dungeons only adds weight to the argument that we need dungeon exp, to get more people doing them to learn group playstyles.
I solo'd all the public dungeons I came across while questing, was that wrong? I offered party invites to those around me, but nobody listened.
The post regards dungeon exp not the other group activities you mentioned.
If dungeons continue to reward you with exp after the first run, those that enjoy dungeons can continue doing them. And then those that enjoy quests can go outside and do them instead. And we would all stay subbed.4 -
Ragnar_Lodbrok✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »If you hate questing why play mmos where 90% of the content is questing? Dungeons were meant to be an aside, not the main part of the game.
I haven't spent 90% of my time questing in an mmo since 2006.
Then you live a sad wasted life where everything passes you buy, due to your willful ignorance. Basically you are playing mmos wrong if all you want is a dungeon grind. You have WoW to do that in, or its 666 clones.
Actually all I want to do is heal groups through challenging content, and questing isn't healing.
How can you say that when you admit you don't quest? I think you are full of it.
Quests aren't challenging. I don't play the same way you do. Get over it.
Quests are as challenging as you make it. Try doing them 2 levels lower. but, you won't. You'd rather throw a tantrum like a damn child demanding they turn this game into a WoW dungeon grindfest.2 -
When you hit 50, your only viable option for leveling is questing. You cannot grind mobs any more. I have heard that dungeon xp is okay at veteran level but haven't tried it yet to know if that's true.
Quests are quests. They aren't challenging even slightly... And I did do every single quest (that wasn't bugged) in Daggerfall Covenant to get to 50, so you can't say I didn't experience the game.1 -
Weevah✭✭✭hwesterbergb14_ESO wrote: »"I wouldn't complain that they need to fix the game.....I would not play the game because it isn't what I want for my gaming experience."
Uh, that's the point. You wouldn't play the game... Is it in Zeni's best interest to alienate a big chunk of their player base?
And yes, there is something stopping you from questing with a group. Unless you are on the same steps of the same quests, it's almost impossible to group to do quests. If you are out of synch on a step you can't even see each other on the map half the time. It's a BIG PAIN.
This is actually an extremely unfriendly grouping game. Can't help people on previous quest steps. You can't redo dungeon quests, so trying to help friends through dungeons can be a pain (for instance, one dungeon you need a disguise to get through a part, but if you've already done the quest, you cannot get it a second time through). No mentoring or leveling down to help friends, etc.
Many MMOs have questing, yes, but they don't FORCE you to quest. SWTOR you could level entirely in PVP if you wanted. Everquest 2, you could level without doing many quests, if you wanted. BUT you could do quests if you wanted. CHOICE. Wow, what a concept.
I don't get why you think it's a bad thing for a game to give the player choices. The problem with the game as it stands now is that they did stick too much to the single player experience. That means that once we are done with it, we're done with it. It will not have longevity in its current state.
Most MMOs do do that you are correct. However it was my understanding that this game isn't meant to be like most MMOs. It is meant to be an Elder Scrolls MMO.
Anyone who has played The Elder Scrolls games know that it has always been about the quests and story because that is pretty much all a single player game can be about. In making this game a MMO they allow people to group together and complete objectives and give you incentives for doing those objectives. But to allow people to bypass the very essence that is TES would ruin the uniqueness of the game and take away from what makes the series so great.
If people are playing this game thinking and expecting it to be like every other MMO out there I understand why they are upset that you don't have a choice in leveling via PvP or dungeons. But this isn't meant to be just another MMO....It is meant to be Elder Scrolls, which has emphasis on quests and story progression and a MMO, which allows people to group together and complete group based objectives and to interact with other people and have a sense of community.
They have done a fantastic job balancing what Elder Scrolls IS with what a MMO offers when it comes to group and co operative play with one another. I will say again. If you are not a fan of a game that has heavily invested in its quests and not being able to dungeon grind or PvP grind your way to max level then I suggest finding a new game. YES I understand that some of the MMO community who have this "MMOs = this" type mentality will leave. Good. I doubt it will be near enough people to cause this game to "fail" and I do not mind not playing with people who do not appreciate the game.
Again, this is forcing people into one playstyle (questing).
I can see how running dungeons is not Skyrim gameplay. Nobody wants to bypass the essence of TES, we want to build and enchance it. Take it new places. Allow it to be enjoyed, even by those who were not originally Elder Scrolls fans.
Zenimax did not do a fantastic job balancing co operative play and you offered no arguments for that statement.
You had a worthy post until you called for your fellow players to leave the game.3 -
Weevah✭✭✭Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »If you hate questing why play mmos where 90% of the content is questing? Dungeons were meant to be an aside, not the main part of the game.
I haven't spent 90% of my time questing in an mmo since 2006.
Then you live a sad wasted life where everything passes you buy, due to your willful ignorance. Basically you are playing mmos wrong if all you want is a dungeon grind. You have WoW to do that in, or its 666 clones.
Actually all I want to do is heal groups through challenging content, and questing isn't healing.
How can you say that when you admit you don't quest? I think you are full of it.
Quests aren't challenging. I don't play the same way you do. Get over it.
Quests are as challenging as you make it. Try doing them 2 levels lower. but, you won't. You'd rather throw a tantrum like a damn child demanding they turn this game into a WoW dungeon grindfest.
You've made the assumption that you understand what I have and have not done in this game. And used the words "tantrum" and "WoW." That completely invalidates all your current and previous arguments.3 -
Weevah✭✭✭Why would you want to spend so much time in instances anyway? They made a beautiful world to explore , come on out , its nice out here..
I agree that the TESO world is beautiful. In the past, I'd go outside to do what I call Sharding. I'd get some exploration exp while I was there, as part of Sharding. I'd ignore all the boring quests I don't like doing.0 -
Nina✭I am not seeing this level issue.. Mine is more so the other way.. I stopped getting xp per kill so I completely skipped a zone(for now) and am now out leveling the mobs in the next..You do know that leveling is crazy fast if you find a spot that is high density and just have at them for a bit right ? Why would you want to spend so much time in instances anyway? They made a beautiful world to explore , come on out , its nice out here..
Thanks for the post, it illustrates parts of the absurdity of the arguments from the dungeon nay-sayers.
Still, this isn't exactly the same as many portray as "storybased questing", the most simplest form of farming. I don't disagree that it is both worthwhile and fun, but really, to make dungeons equally rewarding what is wrong with that when a dungeon is after all a very structured way to do the same...and with variety?
Is it realism that Mr Lodbrok and others want? Lore? With swarms of people running criss-crossing the landscape fighting over kills and loot?
And what about all the quests that lock the player in its own instance so it is impossible to do it with others that are not at the exactly same stage of the quest?Edited by Nina on April 17, 2014 11:12PM2 -
Meneleas✭✭Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »You'd rather throw a tantrum like a damn child demanding they turn this game into a WoW dungeon grindfest.
Resorting to trolling cliches thrown at people that have a different view to yourself doesn't constructively add to the discussion.
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Ragnar_Lodbrok✭✭✭✭✭
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Im not a dungeon naysayer. Just defending the right development choice to focus what makes elder scrolls, elder scrolls; and to not have it be another clone where all people do is sit around town spamming LFG (btw is very un-Elder Scrolls like)I am not seeing this level issue.. Mine is more so the other way.. I stopped getting xp per kill so I completely skipped a zone(for now) and am now out leveling the mobs in the next..You do know that leveling is crazy fast if you find a spot that is high density and just have at them for a bit right ? Why would you want to spend so much time in instances anyway? They made a beautiful world to explore , come on out , its nice out here..
Thanks for the post, it illustrates parts of the absurdity of the arguments from the dungeon nay-sayers.
Still, this isn't exactly the same as many portray as "storybased questing", the most simplest form of farming. I don't disagree that it is both worthwhile and fun, but really, to make dungeons equally rewarding what is wrong with that when a dungeon is after all a very structured way to do the same...and with variety?
Is it realism that Mr Lodbrok and others want? Lore? With swarms of people running criss-crossing the landscape fighting over kills and loot?
And what about all the quests that lock the player in its own instance so it is impossible to do it with others that are not at the exactly same stage of the quest?
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Weevah✭✭✭Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »
Im not a dungeon naysayer. Just defending the right development choice to focus what makes elder scrolls, elder scrolls; and to not have it be another clone where all people do is sit around town spamming LFG (btw is very un-Elder Scrolls like)I am not seeing this level issue.. Mine is more so the other way.. I stopped getting xp per kill so I completely skipped a zone(for now) and am now out leveling the mobs in the next..You do know that leveling is crazy fast if you find a spot that is high density and just have at them for a bit right ? Why would you want to spend so much time in instances anyway? They made a beautiful world to explore , come on out , its nice out here..
Thanks for the post, it illustrates parts of the absurdity of the arguments from the dungeon nay-sayers.
Still, this isn't exactly the same as many portray as "storybased questing", the most simplest form of farming. I don't disagree that it is both worthwhile and fun, but really, to make dungeons equally rewarding what is wrong with that when a dungeon is after all a very structured way to do the same...and with variety?
Is it realism that Mr Lodbrok and others want? Lore? With swarms of people running criss-crossing the landscape fighting over kills and loot?
And what about all the quests that lock the player in its own instance so it is impossible to do it with others that are not at the exactly same stage of the quest?
You are a dungeon naysayer, as evidenced by your previous posts.
Development chose to create dungeons that are well constructed, beautiful and fun. That mustn't have been easy.
The fact that they then removed most of the incentive to complete them needs to be rectified.4 -
Ragnar_Lodbrok✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »
Im not a dungeon naysayer. Just defending the right development choice to focus what makes elder scrolls, elder scrolls; and to not have it be another clone where all people do is sit around town spamming LFG (btw is very un-Elder Scrolls like)I am not seeing this level issue.. Mine is more so the other way.. I stopped getting xp per kill so I completely skipped a zone(for now) and am now out leveling the mobs in the next..You do know that leveling is crazy fast if you find a spot that is high density and just have at them for a bit right ? Why would you want to spend so much time in instances anyway? They made a beautiful world to explore , come on out , its nice out here..
Thanks for the post, it illustrates parts of the absurdity of the arguments from the dungeon nay-sayers.
Still, this isn't exactly the same as many portray as "storybased questing", the most simplest form of farming. I don't disagree that it is both worthwhile and fun, but really, to make dungeons equally rewarding what is wrong with that when a dungeon is after all a very structured way to do the same...and with variety?
Is it realism that Mr Lodbrok and others want? Lore? With swarms of people running criss-crossing the landscape fighting over kills and loot?
And what about all the quests that lock the player in its own instance so it is impossible to do it with others that are not at the exactly same stage of the quest?
You are a dungeon naysayer, as evidenced by your previous posts.
Development chose to create dungeons that are well constructed, beautiful and fun. That mustn't have been easy.
The fact that they then removed most of the incentive to complete them needs to be rectified.
So you want them to:
1. make everyone grind dungeons like you do as thats what you say mmo's are.
2. make zenimax *** on the crafting system so you can sit in dungeons all day grinding to be the handful with RNG, because all real mmoers like you know that mmos arent mmos if the RNG can be had by anyone Amirite?2 -
Weevah✭✭✭Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »
Im not a dungeon naysayer. Just defending the right development choice to focus what makes elder scrolls, elder scrolls; and to not have it be another clone where all people do is sit around town spamming LFG (btw is very un-Elder Scrolls like)I am not seeing this level issue.. Mine is more so the other way.. I stopped getting xp per kill so I completely skipped a zone(for now) and am now out leveling the mobs in the next..You do know that leveling is crazy fast if you find a spot that is high density and just have at them for a bit right ? Why would you want to spend so much time in instances anyway? They made a beautiful world to explore , come on out , its nice out here..
Thanks for the post, it illustrates parts of the absurdity of the arguments from the dungeon nay-sayers.
Still, this isn't exactly the same as many portray as "storybased questing", the most simplest form of farming. I don't disagree that it is both worthwhile and fun, but really, to make dungeons equally rewarding what is wrong with that when a dungeon is after all a very structured way to do the same...and with variety?
Is it realism that Mr Lodbrok and others want? Lore? With swarms of people running criss-crossing the landscape fighting over kills and loot?
And what about all the quests that lock the player in its own instance so it is impossible to do it with others that are not at the exactly same stage of the quest?
You are a dungeon naysayer, as evidenced by your previous posts.
Development chose to create dungeons that are well constructed, beautiful and fun. That mustn't have been easy.
The fact that they then removed most of the incentive to complete them needs to be rectified.
So you want them to:
1. make everyone grind dungeons like you do as thats what you say mmo's are.
2. make zenimax *** on the crafting system so you can sit in dungeons all day grinding to be the handful with RNG, because all real mmoers like you know that mmos arent mmos if the RNG can be had by anyone Amirite?
You are a dedicated troll, I'll give you that.
Go back and read my previous posts to find out why the above doesn't resemble anything I have said.
You'll get more out of it that way.3 -
Meneleas✭✭Development chose to create dungeons that are well constructed, beautiful and fun. That mustn't have been easy.
The fact that they then removed most of the incentive to complete them needs to be rectified.
Bingo - totally agree. Done instances with guildies and more than one has stated how good the graphics / atmosphere is. In fact in 1, we spent 5 minutes in front of a light bathed altar playing around with our shadows cast on the scenery - weird but fun.
Some of the dungeons are v well done with nice mechanics, but the current design approach means they won't be seen anywhere as much as they could be.
Also (something touched on in another forum). dungeons are a training ground for team play - the less time people spend in them, the less they'll understand how to play as an effective team.
I read random posts with people saying 'other people' don't play as a team, well people need incentive and opportunity to learn that - current model directly acts against that process.
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Weevah✭✭✭Development chose to create dungeons that are well constructed, beautiful and fun. That mustn't have been easy.
The fact that they then removed most of the incentive to complete them needs to be rectified.
Bingo - totally agree. Done instances with guildies and more than one has stated how good the graphics / atmosphere is. In fact in 1, we spent 5 minutes in front of a light bathed altar playing around with our shadows cast on the scenery - weird but fun.
Some of the dungeons are v well done with nice mechanics, but the current design approach means they won't be seen anywhere as much as they could be.
Also (something touched on in another forum). dungeons are a training ground for team play - the less time people spend in them, the less they'll understand how to play as an effective team.
I read random posts with people saying 'other people' don't play as a team, well people need incentive and opportunity to learn that - current model directly acts against that process.
Thanks for this post.
It illustrates some of the guild group fun and training to be had in dungeons.
It is confusing for Zenimax to create something so grand then provide strong incentives not to enjoy it more than once.3 -
Eris✭✭✭✭I just think its funny that the term grinding has been expanded to include quests. In the old days, when the term was coined, grinding was doing the menial repetitive things like killing 250 orcs for an achievement, etc. It was what the developers did to make you do random stuff while they made more quests. Now someone is complaining that they have to grind quests... sad.Side effects of reading messages on forums can cause nausea, head aches, spontaneous fits of rage, urination due to intense laughter, and sometimes the death of your monitor or other object in throwing range. If you find that you are reading forums more than 24 hours a day, please consult your nearest temporal physicist.4
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In summary, If you are not happy with the way this game is because you cannot do dungeon grinding to level and have to do quests, I humbly suggest finding a new game that allows you to do that instead of complaining about it.
Well, its in YOUR best interest to encourage people to voice their grievances BEFORE they leave the game.
I'm one of them. I've played this great game since early access, but I'm halfway out the door.
Let me ask you, since you're wise enough to tell others what they should and shouldn't do as it pertains to giving feedback: Why does it concern you?
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Weevah✭✭✭I just think its funny that the term grinding has been expanded to include quests. In the old days, when the term was coined, grinding was doing the menial repetitive things like killing 250 orcs for an achievement, etc. It was what the developers did to make you do random stuff while they made more quests. Now someone is complaining that they have to grind quests... sad.
The term "grinding" has also been repeatedly applied to focused dungeon gameplay.
I never complained about that fact.0 -
SuperScrubby✭✭✭I personally like dungeons as well as group play. I also like the ability to solo, so when I want to play just an hour or have a short window of time I don't have to waste time looking for a group.
This game did the questing part right to let me jump in and out as I please, however it doesn't do anything for me when I have a large chunk of time. I enjoy playing with groups and thinking through things. Figuring out people's strength's and weaknesses. It also helps you figure out what you might be doing wrong.
It's like sex, something that a large portion of you probably don't get. If you choke the chicken solo, you might think you're awesome because you can satisfy yourself. However you add a partner to that mix, male, female, ***, shman, etc. You then have to work in tandem to accomplish the same task just on a grander scale. So yes, I don't mind beating the meat, but it's way more fun with a +1
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People make it absolutist, (sic) quest or quit. I also enjoy the story driven part of the game, just don't see why dungeons should be so unrewarding.
I agree with you absolutely except for one thing. The only thing I disagree with is that dungeons are unrewarding. You get a skill point, a blue item that you can use or disassemble, a chance of loot from the bosses in the dungeon and the exp from turning in the quest that rewards you with the skill point and item. So to me that dungeon rewards you for completing it. Expecting to do the same dungeon(s) over and over again and to continue to get rewarded for it with exp that would allow you to skip a huge part of the game, which is quests and story progression would take away from the game entirely because people would not have the slightest clue as to what is going on.
Most people who want to just "do dungeons" are most of the time the same people who do not speak to one another at all in the dungeons and just kill the mobs and bosses. These same people also try and face roll the content and when they die to simple mechanics that could've been easily avoided like blocking a heavy attack or running out of the HUGE red circle around the boss, they complain that it is too hard or that the healer sucks and that the game is broken and needs to be fixed.
I bring this up because for me, grouping with these people is the worst experience I have had with this game. Being a healer, I am not going to waste my resources on someone who is being willfully ignorant to what is happening around them and not communicating with their party. I don't want to play this game with those people. It completely ruins the whole group experience because you are not playing as a group, you are playing solo with three other people who are also playing solo. Slightly off topic but I digress.
Between the dark anchors, world bosses, public dungeons (each zone has one PD that has a group challenge that also rewards a skill point not to mention that every public dungeon has a skyshard in it that also reward skill points for every 3 collected), instanced dungeons, Cyrodiil PvE.....AND meeting people and grouping up with them to explore and quest together AND grouping up to do the adventure zones, all of these things reward you for completing them except the last two which are more for people who find meeting people and completing story based objectives rewarding instead of actual skill points and loot.
If they continued to reward you with exp after the initial clear, what would be the incentive to quest? The incentive for the group content is still their via loot, skill points, quests completions for the exp bonus etc... the incentive for quests is still there with the amazing story progression and the exp that comes along with completing the content AND most big quest chains reward skill points as well for completing them.
I just do dungeons. I can't speak for these "most" people you are referring to but I am not one of them.
When I'm healing new and/or lazy players through dungeons is never a faceroll. If I wasn't dedicated to it we would wipe. But I love it for the challenge it brings. It makes me a better healer. I not only learn the mechanics but compensate for the failure of others to do so. And nobody ever tells me I "suck" at healing.
But that's just me.
The fact that you mainly encountered people using a solo playstyle in dungeons only adds weight to the argument that we need dungeon exp, to get more people doing them to learn group playstyles.
I solo'd all the public dungeons I came across while questing, was that wrong? I offered party invites to those around me, but nobody listened.
The post regards dungeon exp not the other group activities you mentioned.
If dungeons continue to reward you with exp after the first run, those that enjoy dungeons can continue doing them. And then those that enjoy quests can go outside and do them instead. And we would all stay subbed.
That is fine if you want to do just dungeons. This game doesn't reward people for doing just dungeons (except with maybe loot if you are lucky) and I hope it never does. If that is what you want to do I suggest playing another MMO that allows you to do that instead of complaining about this game not allowing you to. Elder Scrolls has always been a quest heavy game series and if that is something you are not into then I wouldn't bother wasting your time.2 -
SuperScrubby✭✭✭They did reward dungeons, however they nerfed the *** out of it when release came about. So while ES as a single player game never gave exp for dungeons, this is also an MMO so you have to introduce some MMO aspects. It blows my mind that people can't understand this concept.
Who does it hurt to allow more content be rewarding if you have friends to play. This whole solo centric culture that's been developing in the online community is depressing. Let people who have actual friends play the game you know, with their friends. Or for people that like human interaction in all shapes and form to you know, interact.
Not everyone likes quests and why even create dungeons if they're only going to give you any exp to complete them once. Not like mobs change positions, or the dungeon randomly generates to promote exploring. Aside from running them once, there is no benefit and that's a problem. It's basically adding a broken function or component to a game. People forget that dungeons actually gave exp until some *** used it to grind to 50 in a day or
Nobody is asking for that kind of exp, something similar to what you'd get outside if you were to kill a mob of that difficulty outside.4 -
Weevah✭✭✭People make it absolutist, (sic) quest or quit. I also enjoy the story driven part of the game, just don't see why dungeons should be so unrewarding.
I agree with you absolutely except for one thing. The only thing I disagree with is that dungeons are unrewarding. You get a skill point, a blue item that you can use or disassemble, a chance of loot from the bosses in the dungeon and the exp from turning in the quest that rewards you with the skill point and item. So to me that dungeon rewards you for completing it. Expecting to do the same dungeon(s) over and over again and to continue to get rewarded for it with exp that would allow you to skip a huge part of the game, which is quests and story progression would take away from the game entirely because people would not have the slightest clue as to what is going on.
Most people who want to just "do dungeons" are most of the time the same people who do not speak to one another at all in the dungeons and just kill the mobs and bosses. These same people also try and face roll the content and when they die to simple mechanics that could've been easily avoided like blocking a heavy attack or running out of the HUGE red circle around the boss, they complain that it is too hard or that the healer sucks and that the game is broken and needs to be fixed.
I bring this up because for me, grouping with these people is the worst experience I have had with this game. Being a healer, I am not going to waste my resources on someone who is being willfully ignorant to what is happening around them and not communicating with their party. I don't want to play this game with those people. It completely ruins the whole group experience because you are not playing as a group, you are playing solo with three other people who are also playing solo. Slightly off topic but I digress.
Between the dark anchors, world bosses, public dungeons (each zone has one PD that has a group challenge that also rewards a skill point not to mention that every public dungeon has a skyshard in it that also reward skill points for every 3 collected), instanced dungeons, Cyrodiil PvE.....AND meeting people and grouping up with them to explore and quest together AND grouping up to do the adventure zones, all of these things reward you for completing them except the last two which are more for people who find meeting people and completing story based objectives rewarding instead of actual skill points and loot.
If they continued to reward you with exp after the initial clear, what would be the incentive to quest? The incentive for the group content is still their via loot, skill points, quests completions for the exp bonus etc... the incentive for quests is still there with the amazing story progression and the exp that comes along with completing the content AND most big quest chains reward skill points as well for completing them.
I just do dungeons. I can't speak for these "most" people you are referring to but I am not one of them.
When I'm healing new and/or lazy players through dungeons is never a faceroll. If I wasn't dedicated to it we would wipe. But I love it for the challenge it brings. It makes me a better healer. I not only learn the mechanics but compensate for the failure of others to do so. And nobody ever tells me I "suck" at healing.
But that's just me.
The fact that you mainly encountered people using a solo playstyle in dungeons only adds weight to the argument that we need dungeon exp, to get more people doing them to learn group playstyles.
I solo'd all the public dungeons I came across while questing, was that wrong? I offered party invites to those around me, but nobody listened.
The post regards dungeon exp not the other group activities you mentioned.
If dungeons continue to reward you with exp after the first run, those that enjoy dungeons can continue doing them. And then those that enjoy quests can go outside and do them instead. And we would all stay subbed.
That is fine if you want to do just dungeons. This game doesn't reward people for doing just dungeons (except with maybe loot if you are lucky) and I hope it never does. If that is what you want to do I suggest playing another MMO that allows you to do that instead of complaining about this game not allowing you to. Elder Scrolls has always been a quest heavy game series and if that is something you are not into then I wouldn't bother wasting your time.
schismˈsɪz(ə)m,ˈ
noun
1.a split or division between strongly opposed sections or parties, caused by differences in opinion or belief.
Here we have a line in the sand with multiple people asking us dungeoners to leave TESO.
I will henceforth refer to this as The Schism.
Your hope that dungeon exp is never restored may not have the effect on your game that you think it will.
And I have every right to complain about a product I have paid for, especially when so many other players feel the same way.
It is because I love almost everything about TESO that I am fighting for changes. Otherwise I would not waste my time.
If you want to stop hearing from me about it, you'll need to come up with a superior argument. Something better than "Elder Scrolls series is quest heavy so the MMO should only feature that content."4 -
Weevah✭✭✭
Quote was in response to someone telling me to "Play the rest of the 99% of the game." I know how I like playing and you do too.
I'm indulging you Srugzal because you have made a lot of posts but I don't understand how you can support moves to silence this issue, especially when removing incentives for dungeon gameplay can only hurt this mmo.3 -
Weevah✭✭✭Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »Speed of leveling does not equate better.
It does when you hate questing, mate.
@Michan and @Weevah, you're missing out. Everyone plays their own way, and that's fine with me, but sometimes that means you miss stuff. The quests were designed to depart from the throwaway model of older MMOs. There are familiar patterns, sure, but along the way, there's a lot of things you might miss if you're, pardon me, stuck in the past...
Questing XP is not the only thing you get with questing. You also get lots and lots of mobs that spawn faster than a dungeon and give great loot and XP. If you don't quest, you won't see most of the tasty mobs. Fact.
Most of the other high-XP mob farming takes place near or around world bosses and near quest areas or as part of quests.
Do all the quests because of the mobs, farm the mobs that appear as part of the quests (they spawn more rapidly than dungeons and give better XP), grind the heck out of them. Don't just run to finish the quest, consider it also an opportunity to double or triple your quest XP. I do this, and I've been consistently 1-2 levels above my quest area, sometimes more. Also I have to make frequent trips to vendors to unload all the loot.
A problem with a lot of these mobs is that they turn pacific (green) when the quest is over and the boss is killed, so seize the moment. Tanzweill in AD is a good example of this.
Another thing is to mark the Dark Rift appearances on your map, and keep going back to them. The rift will respawn pretty much every time you go there. These encounters will also hone your combat skills, because they're tough solo. In a group, meh, not so much.
I don't enjoy killing mobs, I enjoy healing groups through challenging content.3 -
Singular✭✭✭✭I just do dungeons. I can't speak for these "most" people you are referring to but I am not one of them.
When I'm healing new and/or lazy players through dungeons is never a faceroll. If I wasn't dedicated to it we would wipe. But I love it for the challenge it brings. It makes me a better healer. I not only learn the mechanics but compensate for the failure of others to do so. And nobody ever tells me I "suck" at healing.
But that's just me.
The fact that you mainly encountered people using a solo playstyle in dungeons only adds weight to the argument that we need dungeon exp, to get more people doing them to learn group playstyles.
I solo'd all the public dungeons I came across while questing, was that wrong? I offered party invites to those around me, but nobody listened.
The post regards dungeon exp not the other group activities you mentioned.
If dungeons continue to reward you with exp after the first run, those that enjoy dungeons can continue doing them. And then those that enjoy quests can go outside and do them instead. And we would all stay subbed.
Totally agree with you. Not on your playstyle, but on your premise that ESO should allow people to level as they wish. I don't care how you play, but would like however you play to be both rewarding and rewarded.
Personally, I like trying everything ESO has to offer - exploring, dungeons, open world slaying, anchors, pvp, etc. But I don't like having some aspects of play ruined through crippling changes to xp allocation - that's just poor management. Surely the balance between the few who would "unfairly" grind out levels to 50 and those of us who just want to experience the journey while getting xp is not "nerf dungeon xp to 1%."
Whoever thought up and implemented that change shows extremely poor judgment. It's like they designed and built a Ferrari and then after driving it thought "oh, it's too fast. Let's replace the engine with a lawnmower engine. That will solve the speed issue."War, give me war, give me war.5 -
Tetujin✭✭✭Making bosses more thrilling is always better, no question. Worst case scenario is that they are easier than a single mob to a single player, that's just anticlimactic. Scaling it to the number of people, even just by health would do something.2
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No lvling XP in dungeons just killed this game for me. Will be playing Wildstar over this for sure now if this is not fixed. I mean really...I get more xp for killing mobs outside of dungeons...and no loot... wth is going on? canceling asap till this gets fixed.3
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Ragnar_Lodbrok✭✭✭✭✭
✭ryujinjakka74b14a_ESO wrote: »No lvling XP in dungeons just killed this game for me. Will be playing Wildstar over this for sure now if this is not fixed. I mean really...I get more xp for killing mobs outside of dungeons...and no loot... wth is going on? canceling asap till this gets fixed.
Way to cut and paste your same statement from another thread. We get it youre mad this isn't a wow clone.1 -
Khuul99✭✭Not rewarding playing dungeons is not asking for a wow clone.
You are just telling everyone to play your way, so i essence you are just a troll.
There is zero reason for nerfing dungeon exp.
If you want to quest you can quest even if there are other ways to advance. You can always choose to not take those other paths.3 -
dsaras✭
I can't understand you? You are visiting evey thread about dungeons an telling people to do quests. What's your problem? I don't get it why do you care. No one is asking to nerf quest xp or in any way change current quest system, no one is trying to change the gameplay you like, so why are you so opposed to people who are asking to give them a chance to play this game their way?Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »Thats well and good, but Zenimax's focus is great pve story content, via the traditional Elder Scrolls way. Maybe someone will make Dungeonsonly MMO someday so you can grind the same encounter a hundred and twenty times a day for fun.
You say story content is the traditional elder scrolls way? Since when? For me personally elder scrolls was always about freedom. I could travel in any direction from the beggining of the game, exploring the land and dungeons without doing a single quest.
I see some people whiteknighting every aspect of the game. Guys it's very simple. I'm also a huge fan of the series. I would like this game to be awesome but it has some major drawbacks and fixing those would benefit all. Having one way to play an mmo without an alternative is a serious issue. And to all those people saying that everyone who doesn't like the game as it is now can leave.. guys have you ever played an mmo? This is a sub based mmo. If pepople will be leaving zos, will be losing money. Less money - less content, less updates or even f2p. How is that better for you?
Another thing, please explain me how fixing dungeon xp is going to make this game more of a wow clone? Do you mean that if this game is an mmo with quests and dungeons this is a wow clone, but if you leave quests but nerf dungeons it becomes something different? Seriously please give me some rational and logical explanations.
Edited by dsaras on April 18, 2014 12:16PM5
