How many skills active at one time would you like?

smokes

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

i like the way it currently works - it's not like it's only 5 abilities and an ultimate, the weapon swap adds a whole new dimension to the game

i like playing 2h templar, but it doesn't work in all situations and as such, in pvp i can get pwned rather quickly by charging in - so, i have a bow as my second weapon for ranged attacks and AoE, but i also have my heal and stat regen buff on my bow action bar.

so i can setup some AoE with the bow, switch weapon, charge in and lay the smack down with my 2H. if i start getting beasted, i'll switch back to the bow and spam some heals on myself whilst making distance.

the combination of abilities and synergies between them have astounding potential. the ability to switch between weapons and hotbars, either of the same weapon, or of different weapons, opens up a whole realm of possibilities and people just need to get used to this concept.

anyone who hadn't played the beta will take a few weeks to get their heads around it (i know when i first starte the beta, i charged in, expecting it to be wow like and didn't have much fun - i then rerolled and started with a fresh outlook and perspective that this is not wow and it is not your standard mmo, i suddenly had a moment of awe inspiring noobness. i then found i accepted the game for what it was, not what i was expecting it to be and i started enjoying myself a whole lot more) - people who played the beta no doubt have a little more insight into how the system works and how ESO stands on it's own in this way. it's what makes it unique and it's what i love about the game. (i spent 45 minutes deciding how to spend a skill point the other day, it frequently takes me 10 mins of indecision, then i decide to leave it for a while and carry on questing until i know for sure how i want to spend the point)

you never know what your opponent will throw at you and whether you'll be able to counter it. it's not WoW where everybody can have 50 keybinds and you need to remember what everything does - it's a reactive combat game, you need to pay attention to what is going on in front of you, not how long the cooldowns and buff timers have remaining.

in ESO, you have to pay attention to the world in front of you, not your UI - this is part of the reason why the API was restricted and another reason why i love ESO - WoW became a game of addons, timers and dps meters. ESO is fresh new world that doesn't need those burdens

finally, this is not a game about spamming active abilities or rotations, you can to an extent, but only as far as your resources will allow - there is a large emphasis on taking advantage in a fight through blocking and well timed attacks. people will figure this out eventually

Xaei

7 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Wish there was just space for a little more...

The problem with having too few skillslots is that you will always have some 'best in slot' skills which are just mandatory for any sort of build belonging to the same type (e.g. Nightblade DPS), an thus after slotting them, you dont have much choice left. This was my major problem with dungeon DPS builds in TSW, because there was just basically 7 passives that's the best for everything apart from 1 particular weapon combination as a DPS.

The problem with having too many skillslots is that you get to slot everything at once, removing the need for any decision making.

Both of those means less build diversity.

I just think with the current 5, I don't really have much left after slotting essential skills.

Denssor

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

Aimeryan wrote: »

Terminology is just terminology - it can change, it can carry different meanings for different people if there is not one universally agreed upon meaning. It is also fairly insignificant if you can convey the meaning without needing to use the word. In this case, all abilities but toggles can be used the same as whether they are on Bar 1 or Bar 2 - the only difference is that if you are not currently on that bar there is a small delay. Use whatever word you like; there is my meaning.

And the way I see it, you are still casting those toggles, that is why they reserve a percentage of magicka. If they didn't require that reservation, I would agree with you on this point.

Aimeryan wrote: »

If you need to swap bars every other ability, then you haven't planned your bars very well.

Exactly! That is the challenge in only have 5 skills on 1 bar with a delay to switch. It makes you think about what you will need for the coming fights.

Aimeryan wrote: »

I am not going to espouse a certain way of doing things (like you are trying to do), but I will mention that it is probably more effective to have commonly used abilities all on the same bar and use the other bar for uncommon things (long dots/hots, resource intensive nukes/heals (you can't do this often, so it acts like a cooldown), CC you only need to use once every now and again, etc). I would also say it would make sense to have any toggles you have on that bar too, but for some reason that would be not be acceptable.

It's not that it is unacceptable, it's that I, and many others, feel that it will make the easier. I'm tired of games being dropped down to easy mode. I like the idea that we need to think about the best set of 5 skills. It makes me feel that my skill choices matter. Every extra skill that gets added to the bar is just one more situation I can cover in combat. It is one less fight that could kill me. Where is the fun if I have no threat of dying?

Aimeryan wrote: »

Saying that is how they did it does not imply that they did it a) intentionally, b) perfectly, c) without possibility of being improved. There are only two things I desire here:

1) Stop punishing toggles. It was a kneejerk change and is not well thought out.
2) Remove the stupid bar swap and delay. Keep your 10 skill limit, just make this quality of life change. Weapon swap is fine - good even. Bar swap, no.

1) Toggles aren't be punished, you can use them when they are on your bar and you choose to reserve the magicka cost of them. Perhaps you should be asking how can those skills be buffed, instead of how the system can be changed?

2) I'm sure the delay was placed in so you are somewhat forced to stay in one weapon set for that fight. I like the way the weapon sets are tied into the skill bars. For me, it is a role change. I use one bar for DPS and the other for tanking. If me and my brother are getting crushed in that boss fight, I switch from DPS to tank, and he switches from DPS to healer. We don't switch very often, but there are times when that delay in switching is wroth it. There are also times when that delay isn't, and it's better to just fight to the brink of death. Again, it's a tough choice we have to make and it adds a new element to the combat of the game.

The current set up makes it challenging and I want the challenge to stay.

Master_Quack14b14_ESO

Other - Please explain.

All toggle skills should have their own skill slot. For example:

As a Scorcerer having to give up 10% of my mana pool for a mediocre pet should be enough of a penalty. Alternatively just summoning the pet and only having X number of slots left for activated abilities is also a viable alternative. Both combined makes me opt for another skill that doesn't permanently penalize me.

Also, Bound Armor also had the same dual penalty. If you have to use Bound Armor you are better off wearing heavy armor instead and just stacking mana regen on your jewelry instead. You would have the same end result but without losing 10% of your mana pool AND a skill slot.

Velovious Curse has some decent PvP/Solo PvE burst potential but in PvE groups mobs don't often last long enough to be of much use.

So, at level 23 The skills in Daedric Summoning are pretty much all garbage with the ONLY exception being Conjured Ward for a damage shield that is twice as effective as Annulment (Light Armor active ability). If the absorb ability of Annulment was doubled then there would be no reason to take any ability in the Daedric Summoning tree at all.

I do see some AoE potential in Velocious Curse when combined with Lightning Splash and Daedric Mines. A build around all three specifically would be interesting for Raids.

The only use I could see for the rest of the Summon Abilities (Pets/Armor) would be in a build that focused on Tanking or Melee damage. But then you would easily and quickly be overcharged with Heavy Armor and Bound Armor combined making the build ultimately unviable. Not to mention you would only have 2 active abilities to use as of course 3 of them would be passive toggles. Makes for a very boring character.

Just my opinion...

~Æther

Aimeryan

10 skills + 2 Ultimates - Don't want to swap weapons to use them!

Denssor wrote: »

And the way I see it, you are still casting those toggles, that is why they reserve a percentage of magicka. If they didn't require that reservation, I would agree with you on this point.

Again, semantics. Furthermore, what you are saying here is, "because they are also punished with a casting cost and reservation, it makes sense to punish them with requiring two skill slots", then you go on to say "if we take out the casting cost and reservation it would make sense for them not require two skill slots". I don't think I need to say anything here; you've dug that hole yourself.

Exactly! That is the challenge in only have 5 skills on 1 bar with a delay to switch. It makes you think about what you will need for the coming fights.

I don't disagree with this, except having 10 skills on one bar instead of 5 skills on two bars would do the exact same thing. All you are doing is removing a small delay that means nothing in the overall scheme of things. Well, it means not annoying people with a delay, but other than that...

If some people want to have two bars instead of one (equal total number of slots), and some want to have one bar instead of two bars, then it should be an optional (interface settings). Have weapon swap independent (with a delay), have skill bar change have no delay. This way, console users and people who like only 5 keybinds (6 with ultimate) at a time still get this. Those that prefer to see the whole bar at once get that. Both get the benefit of system that flows more smoothly because there is no delay between having access to your 10 skill slots (unless it is a weapon-specific ability, which makes sense).

It's not that it is unacceptable, it's that I, and many others, feel that it will make the easier. I'm tired of games being dropped down to easy mode. I like the idea that we need to think about the best set of 5 skills. It makes me feel that my skill choices matter. Every extra skill that gets added to the bar is just one more situation I can cover in combat. It is one less fight that could kill me. Where is the fun if I have no threat of dying?

Hmm. I get what you are saying, but this just implies you are against toggles, not that you are for toggles taking up two slots. So, its a totally different discussion.

1) Toggles aren't be punished, you can use them when they are on your bar and you choose to reserve the magicka cost of them. Perhaps you should be asking how can those skills be buffed, instead of how the system can be changed?

2) I'm sure the delay was placed in so you are somewhat forced to stay in one weapon set for that fight. I like the way the weapon sets are tied into the skill bars. For me, it is a role change. I use one bar for DPS and the other for tanking. If me and my brother are getting crushed in that boss fight, I switch from DPS to tank, and he switches from DPS to healer. We don't switch very often, but there are times when that delay in switching is wroth it. There are also times when that delay isn't, and it's better to just fight to the brink of death. Again, it's a tough choice we have to make and it adds a new element to the combat of the game.

The current set up makes it challenging and I want the challenge to stay.

Toggles are being punished by requiring they take up two bar slots for no reason. Any other skills gets to be used appropriately with just one skill slot. I think some of the toggles do need buffs (pets for example), but that is a different issue. Some would be totally fine if they just didn't take up two skill slots.

Again, this role thing is all speculation. I am not saying that switching weapons doesn't give you access to different weapon-specific abilities (and that therefore it makes sense to have weapon-specific abilities on those bars), but that is all it means. You can use two DPS weapons just fine and nowhere is it said that this is not intended. An example:

Fire Destruction Staff: Destructive Touch knockback (+morph for stun). Used for if a mob gets too close and also as a form of CC.

Bow: Stamina abilities. Used for not requiring magicka, which means I can use magicka for my class abilities.

Now, I will swap between the two infrequently, but I certainly am not using them as a whole new role - I am merely using a weapon swap to use different weapon abilities. It makes no sense for me to lose my toggles when doing this.

Denssor

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

Aimeryan wrote: »

Again, semantics. Furthermore, what you are saying here is, "because they are also punished with a casting cost and reservation, it makes sense to punish them with requiring two skill slots", then you go on to say "if we take out the casting cost and reservation it would make sense for them not require two skill slots". I don't think I need to say anything here; you've dug that hole yourself.

I never said anything about them being on both of your bars. If you want a toggle on both bars, that is your choice. You have 5 skills in each bar, if you want to use the same skill twice that is your choice. If you don't feel the toggle is worth it, then don't use it or ask the dev's to give that skill a buff. My DK uses Dragon Blood on both bars. Do I have to? No, but I feel it is worth it. My sorc uses a pet, I only have it one bar, because I don't feel it is worth a spot on my second bar.

Aimeryan wrote: »

I don't disagree with this, except having 10 skills on one bar instead of 5 skills on two bars would do the exact same thing. All you are doing is removing a small delay that means nothing in the overall scheme of things. Well, it means not annoying people with a delay, but other than that...

I don't see it as an annoyance, I see it as a "don't do it unless I have to" mechanic. Again, I see it as a way to make you not want to switch in and out of your skill bars. It makes you choose an optimal bar, and then a second bar for those rare occasions when you need to drastically change your build to something that can counter the enemy you are fighting.

Aimeryan wrote: »

If some people want to have two bars instead of one (equal total number of slots), and some want to have one bar instead of two bars, then it should be an optional (interface settings). Have weapon swap independent (with a delay), have skill bar change have no delay. This way, console users and people who like only 5 keybinds (6 with ultimate) at a time still get this. Those that prefer to see the whole bar at once get that. Both get the benefit of system that flows more smoothly because there is no delay between having access to your 10 skill slots (unless it is a weapon-specific ability, which makes sense).

This is a little better idea, but I still feel as though it will ruin the challenge in the game. Not being able to activate some skill on my second bar makes some fights harder. If I die, then I know to switch bars before I start the fight again. I really feel having quick access to more skills to ruin the fun and excitement I am having with some of these challenging fights.

Aimeryan wrote: »

Hmm. I get what you are saying, but this just implies you are against toggles, not that you are for toggles taking up two slots. So, its a totally different discussion.

I'm not against toggles, my sorc uses some. I just know what the price is of those toggles. I know that it isn't worth a slot on both bars, so I only have on my most active bar. If I have to switch bars, I know that what I lose from my pet will be made up from another skill that will give me a large short term boost. I only switch when I have to. My pet is good for the long term damage, but not the short term defense.

Aimeryan wrote: »

Toggles are being punished by requiring they take up two bar slots for no reason. Any other skills gets to be used appropriately with just one skill slot. I think some of the toggles do need buffs (pets for example), but that is a different issue. Some would be totally fine if they just didn't take up two skill slots.

They don't take up two slots, they take up one. Again, it is your choice if you want to have a skill on both bars. Some skills are worth it, others are not, but it is up to you.

Aimeryan wrote: »

Again, this role thing is all speculation. I am not saying that switching weapons doesn't give you access to different weapon-specific abilities (and that therefore it makes sense to have weapon-specific abilities on those bars), but that is all it means. You can use two DPS weapons just fine and nowhere is it said that this is not intended. An example:

Fire Destruction Staff: Destructive Touch knockback (+morph for stun). Used for if a mob gets too close and also as a form of CC.

Bow: Stamina abilities. Used for not requiring magicka, which means I can use magicka for my class abilities.

Now, I will swap between the two infrequently, but I certainly am not using them as a whole new role - I am merely using a weapon swap to use different weapon abilities. It makes no sense for me to lose my toggles when doing this.

So you are more upset that the toggles get deactivated during a switch, even though you have that skill placed on both bars? That I can see as being annoying and I don't have a problem with those staying on, if you have that toggle skill on both bars. But we don't need to change how the weapon sets and skill bars work for that to change. We just need to change those individual skills to work during a weapon set change if it is on both skill bars.

Psychic_Kitty

Other - Please explain.

its 2014 not 1980....this isn't diablo....or some other game.

We need skill slots as many as we want for whatever we want....if we want 5 then fine have 5 if we want less then fine have less.
If we want more then we need more.

I am sorry....I play games in 2014....this isn't 1980 ....this entire stone age retro lets only have 5 skills thing ...feels like I am playing an Old NES system.

Right now I am using stealth, a stab attack, a teleport attack, an attack that actually doesn't use mana, and my soul stealing power...since that's all I can use....cant have arrow powers...or any healing to help anyone....or for that matter any form of self healing or defenses...just no room....no resurrect a fellow player....

That's right....5 skills....Oh how I wish I could have used the heal power thing I got from that one group....could have saved a group.....oh wish I could have resurrected a few players....but didn't have the slots...wish I could have used taunt a number of times to save some mages....but go figure no slots.

IN fact I like so many others....will never be able to explore the content worked so hard on by the developers...of the other skills...that sound neat...but just no room to equip them.

Thus why bother with them.

Psychic_Kitty

Other - Please explain.

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

OR your simple minded you cant understand the complexity and brilliance of the current system if you weren't so simple minded you would see why a majority wants it the way it is.

hey hey now don't go down to the level of making labels with no arguments.

if you and the rest of the ESO staff want to keep the 5 skills....then you and the ESO staff can keep playing the game with 5 skills.

I personally think in 2014 there should be more options.

but go figure....I am used to actual original elderscrolls games....like oblivion and morrowwind and skyrim which had more skill slots and the ability to let the player choose.

just add a click to move feature and I wont even need my keyboard.

Psychic_Kitty

Other - Please explain.

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Of course nobody can see the harm in just 2 more abilities. Lets take a look at 2 abilities

Sorcerer 2 summons inceases Health Regen 20% that's a lot.

Templar Well Restoring aura gives health and stamina regen + more self healing

DragonKnight increases health regen by 4% increasing healing received plus you can choose the 2 abilities that give self healing and one that self heals and damages foes.

NightBlade you can increase your max magicka by 4% and max health by 2% and the magicka increase is also self healing ability.

This may not SEEM like a lot to you but it would make your character MORE powerful in combat and the game would need to be entirely rebalanced. There is NO reason to add more ability slots 5 is enough that's how all the beta testers made it to end game with the 5+1 set up.

5 slots = 5 situations ......its up to you to decide what each slot is to be used for.
As for asking for more slots no matter how many your asking for somebody else wants more if your given what your want why not somebody else who wants 10 or 12. The line is drawn at 5 for a NUMBER or reasons.
1. It fits for the use of the WASD keys anything past 5 is very difficult for MOST people to use
2. The way the game is set up 3 abilities is MORE than enough to fulfill a role.
3. Weapon swap gives you the opportunity to fulfill a second role that's why there is the 2 second delay.

I wouldn't mind a template save as long as it takes 5 seconds to load outside of combat.

um no....beta testers all got bumped levels to reach the end content.
If you didn't know that you didn't beta test much at all.

also hate to pop your bubble....that increase to health regeneration and mana regeneration doesn't work in combat....in fact mana doesn't regenerate after 5 seconds of using it...and since nightblade powers all use mana kind of funny since they start with a lower amount and get less per level then the other classes.

I didn't know if you knew that or not...seams like you didn't....only a dragon knight actually gets an in combat bonus like that from their class skills....everyone else gets it from their race or group affiliation power or armor and weapons....you will notice this is actually listed in the power effect when you mouse over it.

you should have just pointed out everyone can eventualy get health draining weapons...soooo...kind of makes stuff better.

that's all moot anywise as that's all passive skills anywise.....and weapons which means nothing to the entire 5 active skills.

and you cant swap weapons in combat...you can change your quick swap thing though....think it has a 10 second cooldown doing so in combat.

Psychic_Kitty

Other - Please explain.

markusloveFTM wrote: »

5 skills + 1 Ultimate. You have to understand that that is the mechanics of Elder Scrolls Online. If you think of almost every other MMORPG, you basically have unlimited mana and all your abilities have cooldowns so you need a *** load of spells. Also, your auto attacks are literally worthless.

On Elder Scrolls Online, your Magicka/Stamina runs out very quickly, and you can spam your abilities if you really wanted to; so you don't really need more abilities.

I understand that you're not used to having to really consider what abilities to have on your hotbar, and neither was I; but I like it. It does make each character unique, because not everyone has every single possible ability on their hotbar for a certain situation. People have to choose what they have and what they think will work best for them, meaning that everyone you play against is unique.

I disagree....this just makes everyone about the same.

As they will read the skills...figure out which ones fail and which ones work and only use those.

In fact I don't need to prove this at all...just play the game and notice how everyone uses the same skill selections. Its not that they copy each other on purpose....its that they know how to read and have to choose 5 skills....and well....gee...kind of a no brainer on what to choose.

Tankqull

10 skills + 2 Ultimates - Don't want to swap weapons to use them!

Psychic_Kitty wrote: »

markusloveFTM wrote: »

5 skills + 1 Ultimate. You have to understand that that is the mechanics of Elder Scrolls Online. If you think of almost every other MMORPG, you basically have unlimited mana and all your abilities have cooldowns so you need a *** load of spells. Also, your auto attacks are literally worthless.

On Elder Scrolls Online, your Magicka/Stamina runs out very quickly, and you can spam your abilities if you really wanted to; so you don't really need more abilities.

I understand that you're not used to having to really consider what abilities to have on your hotbar, and neither was I; but I like it. It does make each character unique, because not everyone has every single possible ability on their hotbar for a certain situation. People have to choose what they have and what they think will work best for them, meaning that everyone you play against is unique.

I disagree....this just makes everyone about the same.

As they will read the skills...figure out which ones fail and which ones work and only use those.

In fact I don't need to prove this at all...just play the game and notice how everyone uses the same skill selections. Its not that they copy each other on purpose....its that they know how to read and have to choose 5 skills....and well....gee...kind of a no brainer on what to choose.

pretty much this - the 5 slot restriction does not increase diversification but equality because the majority will choose the same in most cases usefull skills. and a handfull of *** fellows will skill the most immersive skills. thats what the 5 slot system actually leads to 90% of the skills can easily deleted and no one would miss them sadly.

Aimeryan

10 skills + 2 Ultimates - Don't want to swap weapons to use them!

Denssor wrote: »

I never said anything about them being on both of your bars. If you want a toggle on both bars, that is your choice. You have 5 skills in each bar, if you want to use the same skill twice that is your choice. If you don't feel the toggle is worth it, then don't use it or ask the dev's to give that skill a buff. My DK uses Dragon Blood on both bars. Do I have to? No, but I feel it is worth it. My sorc uses a pet, I only have it one bar, because I don't feel it is worth a spot on my second bar.

I don't see it as an annoyance, I see it as a "don't do it unless I have to" mechanic. Again, I see it as a way to make you not want to switch in and out of your skill bars. It makes you choose an optimal bar, and then a second bar for those rare occasions when you need to drastically change your build to something that can counter the enemy you are fighting.

This is a little better idea, but I still feel as though it will ruin the challenge in the game. Not being able to activate some skill on my second bar makes some fights harder. If I die, then I know to switch bars before I start the fight again. I really feel having quick access to more skills to ruin the fun and excitement I am having with some of these challenging fights.

They don't take up two slots, they take up one. Again, it is your choice if you want to have a skill on both bars. Some skills are worth it, others are not, but it is up to you.

Condensing, because most of the points have resolved to these:

1) We both agree there are actually 10 skill slots. We both acknowledge that there are 5 quickly accessed skills and 5 not so quickly accessed skills. What we disagree upon is to what extent the delay causes those slower 5 skills to be considered as skills we have access to in combat.

I use the second bar for skills uncommonly used and for abilities specific to that weapon. I do not consider switching to this bar as anything more than a weapon swap (which is the lore behind it). I do not use it as a role change. The delay is not that significant that it can not be used semi-regularly (like every 10 seconds or so).

I believe the delay on the skill bar swap is unwarranted and not actually intentional; I believe it only exists because the bar is tied to the weapon swap, and the weapon swap has a delay (which it should). I believe they are tied because of console users not having as many keybindings and that this was the easiest (laziest) way to do it. I do not believe switching weapon is intended to give you access to new non-weapon-specific abilities - I merely think this is the way it has been implemented. It, of course, makes sense that weapon-specific abilities should only be usable with the weapon they come from.

I repeat my suggestion. Give the choice to the user (via interface settings?) of having either two bars of 5 skills with no delay in switching between them, or one bar of 10 skills. The weapon swap should be independent (unless the user sets the keybindings to the same key, but that is their choice) and have a delay. The first option is better for those who like only 5 keybindings for 10 skills, while the second is better for those who prefer to see and use 10 keybindings.

I don't think it adds any challenge by having a minor delay - just an annoyance. I really think some people are overestimating how long the delay is. It is very annoying, but not very impactful. I would prefer they increased the delay to something like 3 or 4 seconds if it was meant to actually have meaning - otherwise, just remove it. Basically, if it was actually a role-change (because it would be very ineffective to use otherwise), I would find it less annoying as I wouldn't be doing it as often. As it is, it is very effective for me to use both skill bars often (one most of the time, the other to reapply long-duration dots, buffs, and resource-intensive actions).

2) Toggles. We seem to be misunderstanding each other here. Perhaps we should separate some of the toggles here; pets cost a lot to summon, can die often, have a reservation cost. Other toggles cost not quite as much, can not be removed by an enemy, have a reservation cost.

Pets are not viable to keep re-summoning every 10 seconds. You would be constantly out of magicka. Other toggles are not quite so impactful in having to re-cast them (although, still somewhat costly compared to other abilities). Perhaps this comes down to how we use the skill bars - if you only switch once in a blue moon, well pets disappearing wouldn't bother you that much. If you swap every 10 seconds, you bet it would.

In either case, I still don't understand why you assume toggles SHOULD be bar specific when no other skill is. Literally, no other skill is bar specific. I guess I would agree with the argument that toggles should be removed on bar swap (if they are not present on that bar too) if every other skill effectively was the same way. So, if dots suddenly disappeared. If buffs suddenly disappeared. If hots suddenly disappeared. If there was a long delay in swapping bar so that you did not realistically have access to the other non-dot, non-hot, non-buff skills on that bar. IF all that was the case, I would agree. As it is, it is not, so I do not.

If having toggles take up one slot to stay toggled on is overpowered, then increase the reservation cost or change it to make it undesirable to always have a toggle on. As it is, even if pets took up just one slot (to have always toggled on), had no reservation cost, had no magicka cost to cast, took no time to summon, I would still debate if they were worth taking up a slot. They are very poor at the moment - I think I would rather just use the slot for something else. So you can imagine what I think about them using up two slots (yes, to stay toggled on).

I think they need to buff pets, regardless. However, maybe they should also put them on a timer (a minute?) instead of a toggle. Lower the magicka cost, remove the reservation (since they would not be a toggle). Keep them out when swapping bars without requiring them to be on the other bar as well (again, not toggles now anyway). They can be killed, so they don't act as toggles anyway.

Non-pet toggles? Perhaps they are balanced to not be on all of the time. Personally, I don't think so. I think they were balanced to be on all the time (which is why the reservation cost is so low). Losing them on bar swap, if you swap bars regularly, makes them quite weak. I guess you could make them more powerful, so that taking up two slots to stay on, or having them on just now and again, would be worth it. I could get behind that. They don't really have a high magicka cost, so that wouldn't be as punishing like it is for pet summons, but I think the cost should be lowered a little if they are meant to be cast quite often.

jvargas150_ESO

7 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Wish there was just space for a little more...

I think the guy above me hit the nail in the head.

The reason we are limited to 5 abilities is because they designed this game for the console as well..

Also find the reason people give for 5 abilities only funny... If we had 7 abilities to begin with, I wonder if they would all be arguing to nerf it down to 5 since "7 abilities is too powerful", they say...

Seriously though with the caps to magica and stamina its not like we would be able to spam all 7 abilities anyway..

Kalman

Other - Please explain.

9 skills 1 ultimate.
MMO should have 10 skills total (including 1 ultimate). With the way current mana/stamina costs are you can't use them all in a fight anyway, but you can be more prepared to deal with different situations.

Necrodiety

To those that think adding two more skills would unbalance PvP... Both players get two extra slots so that's balanced.

Alao, do console and pc users play together or separately? If separate, couldn't they update just for PC?

roflcopter

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

I think it should be left alone, it isn't broken so don't fix it. Makes you have to think about your choices a bit before walking into a situation.

I am sure if they had to add more they would have to look into the dynamics of pvp and some pve situations and rebalance and re overhaul how certain skills work. Dunno think it would just be a mess to work with, with other messes that need to be cleaned up first.

Lynx7386

At first I thought I'd have no problem at all with the 5+1 system the game uses. After playing for a while, however, I'm finding that it's quite difficult to fit all the utility needed for tanking, healing, or pvp into that setup.

Personally I'd like to see 6+1. 7 is too many, and unnecessary - but right now I feel like having one additional slot would open up a lot more utility for all players. Then again, it could also make some builds too powerful, so it would have to be carefully considered.

As an example, let's take my nightblade. Currently he uses 1h+shield as the primary weapon set, and a bow as secondary. His skill bars are as follows:
1h/shield
-Surprise Attack (nightblade attack, stuns from stealth, reduces armor)
-Ransack (1h/shield attack, reduces armor, buffs self armor)
-Impale (nightblade attack, execute that deals heavy damage vs low health targets)
-Strife (nightblade spell, deals damage and heals self over time)
-Disguise (nightblade ability that provides brief invisibility).
bow
-Magnum shot (bow ability that knocks back target)
-Poison Arrow (bow ability that deals damage over time/interrupts spells)
-Impale (nightblade ability, execute)
-Strife (nightblade spell, deals damage and heals self over time)
-Disguise (nightblade invisibility spell)

For pvp, this setup is difficult to use, as I have no gap-closer when trying to take down kiting opponents. The bow setup is really designed for kiting enemy melee, not for taking out ranged targets. I have ambush among my nightblade skills, or shield charge, both of which would work as a gap closer, but I cannot add those to my bar without giving something up.

Strife is too valuable as a survivability option, without it nightblades have no self heals and no sustainability in combat (at least not without gimping themselves by using siphoning strikes).

Invisibility serves as both a crowd control option (when combined with surprise attack to stun the target), a spell interrupt (against npcs only), and a defense mechanism since it passively gives a large but brief increase to spell resist and armor through nightblade passives.

Ransack exists primarily as a taunt and debuff, but also serves as a large portion of this build's damage output when in melee combat. Poison arrow serves a similar role for the bow set.

Impale, like any execute, is pretty much a required ability for serious pvp or pve. It's invaluable against bosses and other high health enemies in pve, and in pvp it's the only way you're going to take down a target before it gets healed.

The 5 slot limit also prevents me from using my armor-related ability, any utility abilities from the mage's or fighter's guild lines, and any additional weapon-based abilities without suffering from the loss of another more potent or important ability already on the bar.




In general I think that any build needs at least 6 ability slots available:
1 slot for a gap closer or kiting ability
1 slot for a primary damage ability
1 slot for an execute, or at the very least something to reduce enemy healing
1 slot for a self heal
1 slot for a defensive 'oh crap' ability to keep you alive in worst case scenarios
and 1 slot for either a way to regain resources (magicka/stamina), a crowd control ability, a self or group buff, or a utility skill.

6 slots plus an ultimate would still give us enough limitation to make people carefully consider what abilities they put on their bars, but right now the 5 slot limit makes things more difficult and frustrating than they need to be.

Tankqull

10 skills + 2 Ultimates - Don't want to swap weapons to use them!

roflcopter wrote: »

I think it should be left alone, it isn't broken so don't fix it. Makes you have to think about your choices a bit before walking into a situation.

it is broken as classes that use timmed buffes have faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar better usage of the two bars then classes with toggle abilitys.
because of that those classes can setup one utility and one dps qb and easily switch between them when needed while the classes with toggled effects or the need of redundand slotting to compensate the qb switch time are heavily restricted in their ability choosage.

so having one quickbar containing both weapon sets while the weapon switch is handeled in the background would massivly even the playground. between those class types.

plaxy186

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

Lynx7386 wrote: »

In general I think that any build needs at least 6 ability slots available:
1 slot for a gap closer or kiting abilities
(Of course 1 slot)
1 slot for a primary damage ability
(You have left click)
1 slot for an execute, or at the very least something to reduce enemy healing
(Agreed 2 slots used)
1 slot for a self heal
(Agreed 3 slots used)
1 slot for a defensive 'oh crap' ability to keep you alive in worst case scenarios
(You already got 2 right click block and dodge ultimate s are good for this too for really desperate ie out of stam)
and 1 slot for either a way to regain resources (magicka/stamina), a crowd control ability, a self or group buff, or a utility skill.
(Agreed 4 slots used)

6 slots plus an ultimate would still give us enough limitation to make people carefully consider what abilities they put on their bars, but right now the 5 slot limit makes things more difficult and frustrating than they need to be.

based on your own criteria I have proven you only need 4 slots and an ultimate. You still have a slot to fill with an extra.

5 ability slots and ultimate you also have basic attack, strong basic attack, a block, an interrupt, and a dodge so before weapon swap you have 11 abilities, 6 of which you get to choose and fill out your build with.

Tetujin

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

The way it just gives you 5+1 in a single combat, and then the weapon swap still inside combat. You can switch things up however you want when you drop combat, so maybe saved skill builds or some mod that lets you do super-quick out-of-combat changes would be nice, to improve versatility based on situation. But within combat, they have designed things around a limited number of options within the moment. I think it works, and I think long-term it is going to make it much easier for them to add more skill lines which is more important.

I'm fine with the way it is in general. It would be nice if the toggled abilities were built around having some kind of active component, just because with this number of skills you really feel it as a limit when you lose a button to push. It would maybe be different if they were not designed to just be on all the time.

If I was going to give any feedback it would be having toggled things automatically active by being on the bar and doing something when the button is pushed, or something like that where possible. I think the active abilities should be as active as possible, but maybe that's just me.

SeñorCinco

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

.

plaxy186

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

sir_dunnub17_ESO wrote: »

If I was going to give any feedback it would be having toggled things automatically active by being on the bar and doing something when the button is pushed, or something like that where possible. I think the active abilities should be as active as possible, but maybe that's just me.

Think I can agree with this, more abilities like Defensive stance from the shield tree, less abilities like summon Deadra and bound armor. although I think leeching strikes though is fine the way it is cause you kind of want to be able to turn that off and on. although I be fine with it being like a 30 second buff you occasionally activate too.

Selodaoc

10 skills + 2 Ultimates - Don't want to swap weapons to use them!

I find myself wanting more skills to use all the time.

Then go "damn it" and keeps spamming the few skills i have after most slots beeing taken up by toggles and buffs.

ESO combat is extemly limited and basic. Its a flaw of Action Combat.
GW2 had the same problem, another action combat game.
TERA was better at it with its combos.

Blackhorne

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

One slot (ultimate, regular skill, potion, whatever.)

You've already got light/heavy attack, block and bash on your mouse, sneak, move, jump and dodge on the keyboard.

Really, what more do you need?

Beryl

10 skills + 2 Ultimates - Don't want to swap weapons to use them!

I find the existing limitation of 5 skills + 1 ulti quite boring. And I do swap between the two weapons very often during a fight, often to avoid boredom and watch slightly different animations. I also don't see the selection of only 5 skills as a challenge, in most cases spamming 1-2 damaging skills and having something for self heal or protection is more than enough. Probably I am old-fashioned and too used to older games with 20-30 skills on my skill panel. In those games I do enjoy the necessity to react fast and choose the exact skill for every unique situation. So much more fun for me than spamming same skills here.

KenjiJU

Other - Please explain.

Why the jump to 7? 6 Would be more reasonable.

Reticent_Prophet

Other - Please explain.

I think I should be able to have all skills available on the hotbar. Everyone else should stay as is though. If they add more active skills, everyone would be way too overpowered.

GSNairb

7 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Wish there was just space for a little more...

I think the real issue here is the PC gamers are being shafted because the game controls have to be downsized to work on consoles. A couple other games I have played (notably D3 and all its issues) had both console and PC versions each being the exact same.

What is unfortunate is that once a game is made to cross platforms like that, at the very best only the PC crowd is annoyed about the game being limited. Part of the reason I play on the PC is I am allowed more freedom to use skills/control my character.

This whole argument for more skills is a moot point because it cannot happen so long as this game is also being made for consoles.

Wreaken

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

For the mathematically impaired people, I say this yet again.

Why would you want 10 skills on your hot bar when the current way your resource management which is your Magicka and Stamina can only support the casting of 2 or 3 skills in succession?

So you will have a hotbar with 10 skills, and only ever able to use 3 skills every pull anyway?

Do people realize that Light and Heavy attacks are a heavily utilized way to play the game to allow for regen?

This is not your standard MMORPG where it is heavly based around skill usage.

Besides that being said, you have 10 skills anyway, 5 +1 > Weapon swap > 5 + 1 = 10 skills and 2 ultis.

I fail to see why people keep bringing this up, because the next argument after this if they even considered it would be, "OMG, why do I have 10 skills on bar when I can't control my mana and stamina consumption!!!! Buff my Stam and Magicka, NAO!!"

All this talk of making this the same cookie cutter bs that is currently out there is going to lead me to quitting the game if they implement it. I play TESO because it took the leap and broke away from the traditional market circus. Why would I want to play something we have been playing for the past 10 years in different atmospheres?

Aimeryan

10 skills + 2 Ultimates - Don't want to swap weapons to use them!

Wreaken wrote: »

For the mathematically impaired people, I say this yet again.

Why would you want 10 skills on your hot bar when the current way your resource management which is your Magicka and Stamina can only support the casting of 2 or 3 skills in succession?

So you will have a hotbar with 10 skills, and only ever able to use 3 skills every pull anyway?

Do people realize that Light and Heavy attacks are a heavily utilized way to play the game to allow for regen?

This is not your standard MMORPG where it is heavly based around skill usage.

Besides that being said, you have 10 skills anyway, 5 +1 > Weapon swap > 5 + 1 = 10 skills and 2 ultis.

I fail to see why people keep bringing this up, because the next argument after this if they even considered it would be, "OMG, why do I have 10 skills on bar when I can't control my mana and stamina consumption!!!! Buff my Stam and Magicka, NAO!!"

All this talk of making this the same cookie cutter bs that is currently out there is going to lead me to quitting the game if they implement it. I play TESO because it took the leap and broke away from the traditional market circus. Why would I want to play something we have been playing for the past 10 years in different atmospheres?

I didn't bother reading your whole post; got to "So you will have...?" The answer is simple - choice.

As a more complex answer, we already have 10 skill slots. Don't fool yourself with the 5 only being see-able at a time. The real issue for a lot of people is the weapon swap issues, which once fixed to allow a smooth change between weapons (the swap is only 0.5 seconds long) will allow the use of all 10 skill slots without the frustration.

Or, untie the skill bar swap from the weapon swap and allow it to function instantly and freely - it is just a UI change after all.