How many skills active at one time would you like?

Raubrey

7 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Wish there was just space for a little more...

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

The people have spoken, take your wow 500 skills and shove them. The majority like the skill and challenge and diversity this offers.

No, a relative handful of forum posters have voted. This does not in any way validate the claim that the majority have spoken. The *minority* of ESOers (like most gamers) don't use this forum regularly or otherwise, let alone respond to polls.

And for that matter, the vote for 5+1 barely has a plurality -- when you combine those who wish more slots, regardless of number.

Those who participated respectfully, agree or not, are appreciated. Insightful feedback, most of it.

Eris

7 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Wish there was just space for a little more...

I voted 7 + Ultimate. Mostly because I wish I could have all 5 slot active for active skills and still have a slot for my familiar and a utility power.

Eris

7 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Wish there was just space for a little more...

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

The people have spoken, take your wow 500 skills and shove them. The majority like the skill and challenge and diversity this offers.

That is a sad and rude way to address your fellow gamers. Actually, I have never played WoW in my life. I am familiar with it and its concepts but have generally found other games take up enough of my time.

You know, I used to play games where you had as many commands as you could type if you could type fast enough to use them, of course that wasn't too difficult typing 100wpm at 300baud in 1983. One thing was really different back then, people on the Net were generally civil even in disagreements. Of course back then the only people on the Net were academics and scientists.

I have seen any manner of games with a few skill bars to a lot of skill bars and they all have merit.

Let me ask you, how exactly does 5 boxes add skill or diversity over 500? To be honest, you would have to have a much higher level of skill to manage 50 toolbars of 10 skills than you manage 1 toolbar of 5 skills. Just sayin...

Furthermore, I think you'll see for the most part a year from now most people will be whatever is the currently accepted uber, regardless of what people try to do, it's a sad state of MMO mentality. People are already asking about ultimate PVP builds, and ultimate veteran builds, etc. People will do the numbers, they will figure out what is ultimate, they will start posting them, and the cookie cutters will explode into the game.

Challenge? Not really. People will, for the most part, loot at the highest damage and slot it. They won't really concern themselves with the elemental effects, the secondary effects, etc., because that is complex for the average player. Most of the people coming into the game don't know enough about the mechanics to make an informed choice and there is very little about the mechanics that players will readily see. Yes, it's available but how much work is it to find when they would rather be playing.

Personally, I prefer more available skills to less. Not because I am a wow-baby but because if I get bored using the same 4 or 5 skills over and over and over again, I can change it up using a different set of 5 skills over and over and over again or a combination of the two. I don't have to spend time changing skills around, I can just use them. It keeps the questing going without so much admin.

It really is all personal preference, but no reason to be all rude about your preference over others. Try being a happy winner as opposed to a soar winner. Something like... 'Awesome, a majority think that the 5 +1 is sufficient. Sorry all, but that's just the way it goes.' To which I would have said, yep, too bad for me but I still wish I had a separate slot for my summon/unsummon familiar.

Eris

7 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Wish there was just space for a little more...

Geeze, I sometimes get lost in my posting, sorry for the novel. I used to write COBOL so forgive me.

Aimeryan

10 skills + 2 Ultimates - Don't want to swap weapons to use them!

The overall number of skills (10) available is fine, but the inconvenient and unresponsive bar switch is not.

Furthermore, toggles are being treated unfairly by requiring two slots (because for some reason people seem to think not seeing the other bar means it doesn't exist and that therefore people are getting toggles for free if they are not on the bar that they can see).

Basically, just remove bar switching and have all 10 on screen at once. Keep weapon swap, just don't tie the swap to a bar.

Or, remove the bar switching being tied to switching weapon and remove the delay when switching bars. Personally find it more inconvenient this way, but is does the same thing as the above paragraph, while keybindings for the skills on each bar can stay as are (except for the bar switching itself). Would have to educate people though regarding the toggles (just because you can't currently see the bar does not mean it does not exist!).

Shaun98ca2

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

174 vot

Aimeryan wrote: »

The overall number of skills (10) available is fine, but the inconvenient and unresponsive bar switch is not.

Furthermore, toggles are being treated unfairly by requiring two slots (because for some reason people seem to think not seeing the other bar means it doesn't exist and that therefore people are getting toggles for free if they are not on the bar that they can see).

Basically, just remove bar switching and have all 10 on screen at once. Keep weapon swap, just don't tie the swap to a bar.

Or, remove the bar switching being tied to switching weapon and remove the delay when switching bars. Personally find it more inconvenient this way, but is does the same thing as the above paragraph, while keybindings for the skills on each bar can stay as are (except for the bar switching itself). Would have to educate people though regarding the toggles (just because you can't currently see the bar does not mean it does not exist!).

Bar switching is a ROLE change whether you use it as that or not that's what it is. That's why there is the 2 second delay and "abilities" don't persist because its a complete role change. ONLY thing to persist is an ability that was casted that has a time limit.

Weapon swap is a role change not an extension of your current role.

Mistindantacles

Other - Please explain.

Personally, I selectd 'Other'.

Here's why: I don't mind the 5 slotted at a time, but why can't I have an Alt+Num second selection, Shift+Num third selection, or even Alt+Shift+Num fourth selection?

Playing a Templar who sometimes has to solo missions, I find myself needing more than just the 5. Some situations call for smash & bash, some situations call for ranged (magical) attacks, and still I find myself needing heals.

Keep the 5 slots, that's fine. Just let me be able to stack key combinations for additional menus.

Aimeryan

10 skills + 2 Ultimates - Don't want to swap weapons to use them!

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Bar switching is a ROLE change whether you use it as that or not that's what it is. That's why there is the 2 second delay and "abilities" don't persist because its a complete role change. ONLY thing to persist is an ability that was casted that has a time limit.

Weapon swap is a role change not an extension of your current role.

This is your opinion - nowhere have I seen that stated by someone official. I am not arguing it may not be the case (it may be, and I may have to think about whether I want to carry on playing this game); I am merely stating that you can't know that this is the case (unless stated by someone official).

Also, only toggles don't persist. Abilities persist in essence whether they have a timer or not - if you heal yourself and switch bars you don't lose the health you gained. When you need to heal yourself again, if you switched bars you can still do so (after a momentary delay). The ability still essentially exists, the only difference between a bar of 10 abilities and two bars of 5 abilities that need to be switched is the delay.

With toggles, the ability is essentially lost. They are not meant to be used now-and-again like other abilities for just a moment or so; they are meant to be on for long periods persistently. If they are not being used like this, those abilities tend to suck. If they just got paused for a moment on bar switch, well then they would be acting like every other ability.

Anoteros

7 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Wish there was just space for a little more...

What we have now is bare bones slack.
GW2 and even Wildstar have the right.
The sharing of resource of sprinting/weapon skills also fails.
7 and an ultimate would be prefect.

Drachenfier

7 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Wish there was just space for a little more...

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

The people have spoken, take your wow 500 skills and shove them. The majority like the skill and challenge and diversity this offers.

As of this posting, 51% of those polled aren't happy with just 5 skills. So yes, the people have spoken. Add more skill slots, because 5 just isn't cutting it.

Denssor

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

Aimeryan wrote: »

Also, only toggles don't persist. Abilities persist in essence whether they have a timer or not - if you heal yourself and switch bars you don't lose the health you gained. When you need to heal yourself again, if you switched bars you can still do so (after a momentary delay). The ability still essentially exists, the only difference between a bar of 10 abilities and two bars of 5 abilities that need to be switched is the delay.

With toggles, the ability is essentially lost. They are not meant to be used now-and-again like other abilities for just a moment or so; they are meant to be on for long periods persistently. If they are not being used like this, those abilities tend to suck. If they just got paused for a moment on bar switch, well then they would be acting like every other ability.

If a skill is casted, and then you switch weapon sets, the skill effects still go through because it was already casted. As it happened in the past. Toggles are always being "casted" or always being "channeled". They are in the present and future. So when you switch weapon sets, you are canceling that skill. That is why they are "lost".

If the switch of the the weapon set isn't a role change, then why is it we can't use the same weapons for both sets? Sure we can still use the same weapon style, but we are still forced to have two weapon sets with the change. The delay is there probably to make sure we aren't switching from role-to-role freely, so we forced into choosing the best 5 skills for a role that will help us the best way for most situations. Also, notice how I keep calling them weapon sets and not skill bars. The game itself calls them weapon sets, as a set of weapons use for single purpose, or role. You can use the same weapon style for different roles, but you are still changing roles when you change weapon sets. You obviously don't have to use it to change roles, but you will still have that role change delay nonetheless.

Part of the challenge of this game is to figure out which skills you are going to use. You need to find a good balance of offensive, defensive, and support skills for your build. I know a lots of people keep saying adding more skills we still be balanced, and for PvP, they would be for the most part. PvE on the other hand won't be. PvE monsters and bosses were created with the idea that each character will be using only 5 skills and 1 ult in a given fight (since there is a delay in switching, it is ideal to stay in one weapon set for as long as you can). When we add more slots, we have more opportunities to avoid damage or CC effects. This mean the fights are easier. To bring back the difficulty of the fights, the devs will need to adjust the monsters health, magicka, stamina, armor, spell resistance, damage, and even their AI.

If you are looking to make the PvE easier by adding more skills, then that is your choice. I, however, like the challenge. Most MMO's that I have played recently are far too easy and require little to no skill to play as far as PvE goes.

jvargas150_ESO

7 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Wish there was just space for a little more...

5 is just to little... Feel like the game would be perfect had I at least one more, two would be great, but 1 more skill slot would be amazing...

Why? simple, more options, and ability to create better specs.

NordJitsu

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

Perfect as is. Makes you make tough decisions about your build. You can't have a skill for every situation, which means you'll have strengths and weaknesses and also have to rely some on other players.

Give me one more skill slot and most of the PvE content would become trivial.

jvargas150_ESO

7 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Wish there was just space for a little more...

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Of course nobody can see the harm in just 2 more abilities. Lets take a look at 2 abilities

Sorcerer 2 summons inceases Health Regen 20% that's a lot.

Templar Well Restoring aura gives health and stamina regen + more self healing

DragonKnight increases health regen by 4% increasing healing received plus you can choose the 2 abilities that give self healing and one that self heals and damages foes.

NightBlade you can increase your max magicka by 4% and max health by 2% and the magicka increase is also self healing ability.

This may not SEEM like a lot to you but it would make your character MORE powerful in combat and the game would need to be entirely rebalanced. There is NO reason to add more ability slots 5 is enough that's how all the beta testers made it to end game with the 5+1 set up.

5 slots = 5 situations ......its up to you to decide what each slot is to be used for.
As for asking for more slots no matter how many your asking for somebody else wants more if your given what your want why not somebody else who wants 10 or 12. The line is drawn at 5 for a NUMBER or reasons.
1. It fits for the use of the WASD keys anything past 5 is very difficult for MOST people to use
2. The way the game is set up 3 abilities is MORE than enough to fulfill a role.
3. Weapon swap gives you the opportunity to fulfill a second role that's why there is the 2 second delay.

I wouldn't mind a template save as long as it takes 5 seconds to load outside of combat.

So a copt out... you really believe that the game will be broken if everyone gets 4% or even 10% more sta or regen? Seriously there are racials that do that and more.. stop kidding yourself..

I also love this game, but that doesn't mean I can't suggest improvements..

eNumbra

7 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Wish there was just space for a little more...

7 would be ideal I think, but at this point I'd take 6 just so something happens when I'm accidentally mashing the 6 key instead of 5.

Eris

7 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Wish there was just space for a little more...

eNumbra wrote: »

7 would be ideal I think, but at this point I'd take 6 just so something happens when I'm accidentally mashing the 6 key instead of 5.

Sadly for me that would be the same thing that happens when I accidentally hit my 5 key... my familiar would unsummon and I would curse that I can't have it far away from my combat skills.

Aimeryan

10 skills + 2 Ultimates - Don't want to swap weapons to use them!

Denssor wrote: »

Aimeryan wrote: »

Also, only toggles don't persist. Abilities persist in essence whether they have a timer or not - if you heal yourself and switch bars you don't lose the health you gained. When you need to heal yourself again, if you switched bars you can still do so (after a momentary delay). The ability still essentially exists, the only difference between a bar of 10 abilities and two bars of 5 abilities that need to be switched is the delay.

With toggles, the ability is essentially lost. They are not meant to be used now-and-again like other abilities for just a moment or so; they are meant to be on for long periods persistently. If they are not being used like this, those abilities tend to suck. If they just got paused for a moment on bar switch, well then they would be acting like every other ability.

If a skill is casted, and then you switch weapon sets, the skill effects still go through because it was already casted. As it happened in the past. Toggles are always being "casted" or always being "channeled". They are in the present and future. So when you switch weapon sets, you are canceling that skill. That is why they are "lost".

If the switch of the the weapon set isn't a role change, then why is it we can't use the same weapons for both sets? Sure we can still use the same weapon style, but we are still forced to have two weapon sets with the change. The delay is there probably to make sure we aren't switching from role-to-role freely, so we forced into choosing the best 5 skills for a role that will help us the best way for most situations. Also, notice how I keep calling them weapon sets and not skill bars. The game itself calls them weapon sets, as a set of weapons use for single purpose, or role. You can use the same weapon style for different roles, but you are still changing roles when you change weapon sets. You obviously don't have to use it to change roles, but you will still have that role change delay nonetheless.

Part of the challenge of this game is to figure out which skills you are going to use. You need to find a good balance of offensive, defensive, and support skills for your build. I know a lots of people keep saying adding more skills we still be balanced, and for PvP, they would be for the most part. PvE on the other hand won't be. PvE monsters and bosses were created with the idea that each character will be using only 5 skills and 1 ult in a given fight (since there is a delay in switching, it is ideal to stay in one weapon set for as long as you can). When we add more slots, we have more opportunities to avoid damage or CC effects. This mean the fights are easier. To bring back the difficulty of the fights, the devs will need to adjust the monsters health, magicka, stamina, armor, spell resistance, damage, and even their AI.

If you are looking to make the PvE easier by adding more skills, then that is your choice. I, however, like the challenge. Most MMO's that I have played recently are far too easy and require little to no skill to play as far as PvE goes.

A lot of text and very little said. Your skill cast thing is just terminology. The fact is, you can use any skill, any time, with just a small delay. Except for convenience, it is exactly the same as if the skills was always on the bar and you know it. The toggles are just deactivated for no reason.

The weapon switch also being tied to the bar switch; that is just the way they have done it. It doesn't need to be this way, and it doesn't need to signify anything except that that is the implementation. Reading too much into it leads you to thinking you know more than you do.

PvE monsters and bosses were created with the idea that each character will be using only 5 skills and 1 ult in a given fight (since there is a delay in switching, it is ideal to stay in one weapon set for as long as you can).

Rubbish. You have 10 skills, they were designed for that. If you are casting long duration dots or buffs, or using a high resource cost nuke/heal, these things mean the switch delay isn't that important (just annoying). You simply have one bar that you are in most of the time, with the skills on the other bar treated as cooldowns. You would get the exact same effect as if it was just one bar of 10, minus the annoying delay and toggle punishment.

Rubberus_Duckus

Playing as a Sorc, using both my Clanfear and Winged Twilight, I would like to have additional spells/abilities to cast. Granted I have chosen to play this way and understand that but having to spend almost 100% mana every time I walk through a doorway is kind of annoying and that's just to get my pets usable.

If there were a couple extra slots or just a singular ability to cast both of my summons at the same time (while they're slotted) and not cost me all of my mana, that would be good too.

As they cost an enormous amount of mana to cast, should they die, it prevents me from having access to all 5 skill slots. So once my pets are dead, I'm stuck with just 3 skill lots usable (assuming the Ultimate isn't ready).

Sleepwalker

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

It is perfect as is in my opinion. Five skills at my fingers; I click one button, and five more are there and ready as well. This is already plenty. Please don't change the game that I love!

Denssor

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

Aimeryan wrote: »

A lot of text and very little said. Your skill cast thing is just terminology. The fact is, you can use any skill, any time, with just a small delay. Except for convenience, it is exactly the same as if the skills was always on the bar and you know it. The toggles are just deactivated for no reason.

Terminology is what is used to help us define what things are. You understood what I was saying, one has already been casted, while the other is currently being casted. Of course, you can use any skill at any time, all you have to do is place that skill on your skill bar. However, that delay is even longer than switching weapon sets.

Aimeryan wrote: »

The weapon switch also being tied to the bar switch; that is just the way they have done it. It doesn't need to be this way, and it doesn't need to signify anything except that that is the implementation. Reading too much into it leads you to thinking you know more than you do.

But that is how they did it. You don't think they knew how other games have done it? With several weapon sets and every skill hotkeyed? They wanted you to be limited so you have to decide what you are taking into the fight. They didn't want you to have everything at your disposal. It adds strategy to the game. They did everything a certain way for a reason.

Aimeryan wrote: »

Rubbish. You have 10 skills, they were designed for that. If you are casting long duration dots or buffs, or using a high resource cost nuke/heal, these things mean the switch delay isn't that important (just annoying). You simply have one bar that you are in most of the time, with the skills on the other bar treated as cooldowns. You would get the exact same effect as if it was just one bar of 10, minus the annoying delay and toggle punishment.

There are no cooldowns through. You are just limited to your magicka and stamina bars. That is the point. You have have one primary weapon set, and an emergency weapon set for special situations. This is why you need to think about which skills will get you the most bang for their buck. It is all about choices; that is what makes this game unique. The delay is short enough to do it in a fight, but long enough to make you not want to do it all of the time. It is perfect were it is.

vegeta0585b14_ESO

Other - Please explain.

I like it as it is, but I wish there was maybe just ONE more slot per bar. Theres are so so so many skills. Granted in a game like this you dont NEED so many since there are no cooldowns on your bar. But I'd like to see 1 more slot, maybe even dedicate it so that only buff type abilities can go there. (momentum, blur, haste, etc).

NordJitsu

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

Rubberus_Duckus wrote: »

Playing as a Sorc, using both my Clanfear and Winged Twilight, I would like to have additional spells/abilities to cast. Granted I have chosen to play this way and understand that but having to spend almost 100% mana every time I walk through a doorway is kind of annoying and that's just to get my pets usable.

If there were a couple extra slots or just a singular ability to cast both of my summons at the same time (while they're slotted) and not cost me all of my mana, that would be good too.

As they cost an enormous amount of mana to cast, should they die, it prevents me from having access to all 5 skill slots. So once my pets are dead, I'm stuck with just 3 skill lots usable (assuming the Ultimate isn't ready).

This isn't a problem with the number of skills, its a problem with the way they designed summoning.

Originally, pets only took up one skill slot like every other skill in the game. You could slot you pets on one bar and one bar only. You could freely swap weapons and use your other skills, just like every other build.

Then someone gave horrible, bad, inexcusable, game breaking feedback to ZOS. They were concerned about people setting up their second bar as a "buff bar" (I've yet to hear an argument as to why that wouldn't be legitimate that made sense to me.)

So ZOS changed it so that Summoning skills take up twice as many skill slots as every other ability in the game.

Instantly, summoning became non-viable and I abandoned it.

All they need to do is revert to the prior system.

No other build is lacking in skill slots besides summoners.

Tankqull

10 skills + 2 Ultimates - Don't want to swap weapons to use them!

NordJitsu wrote: »

No other build is lacking in skill slots besides summoners.

healer do as well as the 2sec barswitch delay is not feasable when facing some mobs. so they have have redundant double slotting aswell.

Shaun98ca2

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

NordJitsu wrote: »

Rubberus_Duckus wrote: »

Playing as a Sorc, using both my Clanfear and Winged Twilight, I would like to have additional spells/abilities to cast. Granted I have chosen to play this way and understand that but having to spend almost 100% mana every time I walk through a doorway is kind of annoying and that's just to get my pets usable.

If there were a couple extra slots or just a singular ability to cast both of my summons at the same time (while they're slotted) and not cost me all of my mana, that would be good too.

As they cost an enormous amount of mana to cast, should they die, it prevents me from having access to all 5 skill slots. So once my pets are dead, I'm stuck with just 3 skill lots usable (assuming the Ultimate isn't ready).

This isn't a problem with the number of skills, its a problem with the way they designed summoning.

Originally, pets only took up one skill slot like every other skill in the game. You could slot you pets on one bar and one bar only. You could freely swap weapons and use your other skills, just like every other build.

Then someone gave horrible, bad, inexcusable, game breaking feedback to ZOS. They were concerned about people setting up their second bar as a "buff bar" (I've yet to hear an argument as to why that wouldn't be legitimate that made sense to me.)

So ZOS changed it so that Summoning skills take up twice as many skill slots as every other ability in the game.

Instantly, summoning became non-viable and I abandoned it.

All they need to do is revert to the prior system.

No other build is lacking in skill slots besides summoners.

Aimeryan wrote: »

This is your opinion - nowhere have I seen that stated by someone official. I am not arguing it may not be the case (it may be, and I may have to think about whether I want to carry on playing this game); I am merely stating that you can't know that this is the case (unless stated by someone official).

If your second bar was allowed to have NON castable abilities on it persist through a weapon swap. Then what happens is in order to become viable your forced to do this as it over powers your charcter as opposed to somebody that doesn't do this.

Sorcerer in general would become probably one of if not THEE most powerfull class in the dame due to bound armor and the pets persisting through a weapon swap.

Even IF a DEV came on these forums and explained in great detail there reasons why theres 5+ultimate abilities and why weapon swaps operate the way they currently due....
People would still call the DEVS stupid uninformed and ruining the game so why should they waste their times when they have 100's of real game breaking issues to fix.

Fact of the matter will stay if you dont like the system you are never going to and NOTHING is going to change that.

Victus

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

5 boxes +ultimate adds diversity because every player has to decide which 5 skills for their current loadout. If I encounter another DK with 1H+S, the encounter may be different because someone may decide to slot more weapon skills versus earthen heart, or perhaps they have just about all Guild or PvP skills slotted for this particular instance. It adds the variety, which I love.

I think with more skill slots available it would increase the chance for cookie cutter builds. After all, if you have all (or most) of your skills available, it would just be a matter of finding out what rotation is "best" that would involve all of said available skills.

Right now I have seen some discussion on builds go similar to this:

"Here is what I have slotted and why, but in these situations you could swap out X for Y, or if you prefer a different style choose Z for A". I really prefer that, where there are many viable race/class/weapon choices and combinations to choose from and they all bring something to the table.

Bored with the same 5 skills? Change it up! In PvE I don't think you will be gimping yourself too badly to not be able to enjoy the same level content. I've selected some skills and slotted them to see how they perform, firsthand. It's nice to get a feel of exactly what they do and how I may enjoy it. Play around, see what you like. And I believe the devs are wanting people to see what is best for them, and to create this diversity in styles, and still have it work in the game.

Not saying people who want more are wrong, just this is why I like the current system and why I think it works (summoner issues seem to be legit).

KoooZ

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

I say remove the swap bar

spideyfk

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

Voted 5+1, as is. I loved the game so far and i don't have any issues with the current gameplay.
I DO admit that i found a couple of things that differ to what I AM USED TO. But that doesn't stop me from understanding that those things are features of this game. If i enjoy this game (as i currently do), i know that i have to understand and try to get used to those features. I know that if those specific features are the ones that aren't allowing me to enjoy the game, i know that then this game would not be for me, and try to move on to another.
I've said this before (and someone mentioned that it wasn't a mature thing for me to say this even though i'm 31):
THIS IS A GAME. As any game, it's main purpose is to enable players to have a nice entertainment. If the player feels that the game is failing in providing the right entertainment needed for whatever reason (No arenas, no Auction House, too few skills, whatever), then the player should try to move to another game that contains the features that he/she normally like and enjoy.
Just my 2 cents.

Aimeryan

10 skills + 2 Ultimates - Don't want to swap weapons to use them!

NordJitsu wrote: »

Rubberus_Duckus wrote: »

Playing as a Sorc, using both my Clanfear and Winged Twilight, I would like to have additional spells/abilities to cast. Granted I have chosen to play this way and understand that but having to spend almost 100% mana every time I walk through a doorway is kind of annoying and that's just to get my pets usable.

If there were a couple extra slots or just a singular ability to cast both of my summons at the same time (while they're slotted) and not cost me all of my mana, that would be good too.

As they cost an enormous amount of mana to cast, should they die, it prevents me from having access to all 5 skill slots. So once my pets are dead, I'm stuck with just 3 skill lots usable (assuming the Ultimate isn't ready).

This isn't a problem with the number of skills, its a problem with the way they designed summoning.

Originally, pets only took up one skill slot like every other skill in the game. You could slot you pets on one bar and one bar only. You could freely swap weapons and use your other skills, just like every other build.

Then someone gave horrible, bad, inexcusable, game breaking feedback to ZOS. They were concerned about people setting up their second bar as a "buff bar" (I've yet to hear an argument as to why that wouldn't be legitimate that made sense to me.)

So ZOS changed it so that Summoning skills take up twice as many skill slots as every other ability in the game.

Instantly, summoning became non-viable and I abandoned it.

All they need to do is revert to the prior system.

No other build is lacking in skill slots besides summoners.

This guy gets it. The argument that the second bar can't have abilities that are still in some way active after being swapped is not only purely an opinion, but also not the way it currently works anyway - dots and hots and buffs, they all stay, but poor toggles, they have to go.

If people were really annoyed that the toggles don't have to be recast every now and again (people like Shaun98ca2), then they would be arguing for the removal of toggles altogether. The issue of whether toggles stay active when you merely swap bar (which is, as I have explained, no different than if there was just one bar of 10 skills in the first place), has nothing to do with how often the toggles are cast.

No, I take that back somewhat. IF you had a second bar that was ONLY toggles, then I would agree. You wouldn't have the inconvenience and delay of having to swap bars. However, as long as you still have a reason to swap bars there is no issue with the toggles remaining active. I can't say for certain, but I am fairly positive that there are NOT 5 toggles available.

Denssor wrote: »

Aimeryan wrote: »

A lot of text and very little said. Your skill cast thing is just terminology. The fact is, you can use any skill, any time, with just a small delay. Except for convenience, it is exactly the same as if the skills was always on the bar and you know it. The toggles are just deactivated for no reason.

Terminology is what is used to help us define what things are. You understood what I was saying, one has already been casted, while the other is currently being casted. Of course, you can use any skill at any time, all you have to do is place that skill on your skill bar. However, that delay is even longer than switching weapon sets.

Aimeryan wrote: »

The weapon switch also being tied to the bar switch; that is just the way they have done it. It doesn't need to be this way, and it doesn't need to signify anything except that that is the implementation. Reading too much into it leads you to thinking you know more than you do.

But that is how they did it. You don't think they knew how other games have done it? With several weapon sets and every skill hotkeyed? They wanted you to be limited so you have to decide what you are taking into the fight. They didn't want you to have everything at your disposal. It adds strategy to the game. They did everything a certain way for a reason.

Aimeryan wrote: »

Rubbish. You have 10 skills, they were designed for that. If you are casting long duration dots or buffs, or using a high resource cost nuke/heal, these things mean the switch delay isn't that important (just annoying). You simply have one bar that you are in most of the time, with the skills on the other bar treated as cooldowns. You would get the exact same effect as if it was just one bar of 10, minus the annoying delay and toggle punishment.

There are no cooldowns through. You are just limited to your magicka and stamina bars. That is the point. You have have one primary weapon set, and an emergency weapon set for special situations. This is why you need to think about which skills will get you the most bang for their buck. It is all about choices; that is what makes this game unique. The delay is short enough to do it in a fight, but long enough to make you not want to do it all of the time. It is perfect were it is.

Terminology is just terminology - it can change, it can carry different meanings for different people if there is not one universally agreed upon meaning. It is also fairly insignificant if you can convey the meaning without needing to use the word. In this case, all abilities but toggles can be used the same as whether they are on Bar 1 or Bar 2 - the only difference is that if you are not currently on that bar there is a small delay. Use whatever word you like; there is my meaning.

If you need to swap bars every other ability, then you haven't planned your bars very well. I am not going to espouse a certain way of doing things (like you are trying to do), but I will mention that it is probably more effective to have commonly used abilities all on the same bar and use the other bar for uncommon things (long dots/hots, resource intensive nukes/heals (you can't do this often, so it acts like a cooldown), CC you only need to use once every now and again, etc). I would also say it would make sense to have any toggles you have on that bar too, but for some reason that would be not be acceptable.

Saying that is how they did it does not imply that they did it a) intentionally, b) perfectly, c) without possibility of being improved. There are only two things I desire here:

1) Stop punishing toggles. It was a kneejerk change and is not well thought out.
2) Remove the stupid bar swap and delay. Keep your 10 skill limit, just make this quality of life change. Weapon swap is fine - good even. Bar swap, no.

Ashenar

7 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Wish there was just space for a little more...

I would very much like just one extra slot. My reasoning is this. With 6 active slots you can have 3 magic and 3 stamina abilities. Also you could slot a utility skill like Soul Trap, without having to compromise your usual rotation.
I often find myself not getting that one new ability because I can't figure how to fit it in.
I am really only commenting on melee as I don't really like playing range. I believe that that magica only classes would probably not have as much of an issue.

Some abilities are situational and as such are pointless if you don't have a spare slot for them as having them just sit there unused 75% of the time is a waste.

Either change it so that abilities like 2H Reverse Slash are not situational or let us have an extra slot for situational abilities.

Shaun98ca2

5 Skills + 1 Ultimate - Leave it as is!

This is going to go around and around in circles forever.

1. Weapon Swap is meant to be a role change.. Yes I know with a dev telling you this you wont believe it and after they tell you....you will say well its stupid so why should they waste their time.

2. Toggle abilities being turned off after weapon swap even though its on your second bar is a gripe....is a role change...if they aren't on the second bar and you think they should stay on well that shouldn't even be up for discussion.
FINE who cares if the toggle is on both bars who cares if it says up during a role change. Im sure the devs had good reason for the change but as everbody who argues .... simply put they know better.

3. The delay is because its a ROLE CHANGE you people dont see it that way cause you WANT MORE ABILTIES SLOTTED FOR YOUR ROLE. You WANT 10 abilities and are fighting the current system tooth and claw to get it. Its NOT a 10 skill limit its 5+Ultimate.

4. Take abilities OUT of the equation I have a Restro Staff equipped im a Healer I WEAPON SWAP it to 1h & Shield Im a Tank....that's a role change. WHY do you think you need to different weapons of THE SAME WEAPON TYPE for a weapon swap....you need 2 Destro Staffs if you wanna Weapon swap and KEEP the Destro Staff.......because its a role change an in actuality your second weapon SHOULD be different but TESO LETS YOU ....CHOICE LETS YOU.... keep the same weapon type......that's why theres confusion.

5. Would this really even BE an argument or would the argument change if the weapon swap required a DIFFERENT weapon TYPE Destro Staff to ANYTHING BUT Destro staff.

TRY TRY TRY to look at the current system as it is set up its 5 abilities and 1 ultimate NOT 10 abilities and 2 ultimates. Things should start to make more sense but regardless YOU DONT LIKE IT. PERIOD.

Everybody that wants more DOESNT like how ZENIMAX set this game up 5+1. They haven't commented on this thread so Im sure they have NO intention in EVER changing it they aren't even LOOKING AT IT.

But regardless this game is FAIL either the 5+1 crowd wins and your unhappy and leave so the game fails or the we want 1 more crowd wins and the 5+1 crowd leaves. The cant and wont be a medium.