BOTS! BOTS EVERYWHERE!

T3CHN01221

Vilixiti wrote: »

T3CHN01221 wrote: »

Vilixiti wrote: »

EssTee wrote: »

LilBudyWizerub17_ESO wrote: »

Just because they don't play like you doesn't make them a bot. Those named mobs all have rare drops. So people kill them over and over in the hopes of getting that rare drop.

The bots we have noticed don't "play" like anything, they stand on the spot, in the same spot, every time, casting the same thing, every time. It is severely obvious that they are bots. Debate the issue, not the validity of the post.

This is *exactly* how I play when I'm farming a boss. I tend to stand in the same spot because that's the optimal place for me to place my camera for looting purposes. I will use the same two skills in the same order every time because that is the most efficient method for getting enough damage done for looting rights. I will do this for as long as it takes to fill my pack before moving to the same spot to wayshrine out and empty my pack so I can do it all over again for as long as I want before getting bored. Not to mention that holding conversations in that situation is less than optimal as the boss will spawn and be dead before you can get a hit off for loot because you're typing.

I'm pretty sure I was reported by at least a couple people if there's people like you here crying on the forums about it. You guys need to just grow up and play the game, worrying less about what other people are doing. Sheesh..

Okay then.. Please tell me why they don't respond to anything. Even such things as "Jump up and down if you're not a bot." Numerous whispers to them and no reply. Same with trade invites. We had like 3-4 people in a dungeon and replied to none of them. So unless you're are just rude and don't reply to people. Pretty sure they're bots. Why wouldn't we worry about the integrity of the game though? Please tell me.

Well I certainly won't jump when another player says to, nor will I reply to bothersome whispers and trade inviting me unsolicited is the fastest way on to my ignore list.

Try asking them 'ni shi zhong guo ren ba?' which (if my Chinese farmer friends were accurate) should mean 'are you Chinese?' and many of them, thrilled to actually interact with somebody who speaks their language will chatter back at you in mandarin. Their jobs are actually extremely tedious and they do not enjoy what they are doing but they do it anyway for pathetic wages because they need to help support their families. They probably work longer hours than you do for much less pay.

I don't like the practice either, but it truly is the fault of people purchasing gold from them. Your fellow players. They are to blame and 100% the cause for the problem. Zenimax should and will implement methods to combat this practice but meanwhile just remember that these farmers are people too and many of them are actually very nice. Believe me, harassing them (I spent a good year or so doing exactly this in Lineage II) will only waste your time and make their jobs harder as they have quotas to meet and supervisors standing watch to answer to. I befriended a few of them and learned a lot. They work in a room with many computers all with farmers behind them. They have a strict supervisor overseeing them. I'm not sure I'd call it a sweatshop as they seem to have a choice whether or not they work there, but it's not far from it.

If it's an unattended bot, well, there's really nothin' but your suspicion to name them as such. Some players just don't want to be bothered by you asking dumb questions.. *shrug*

Also I giggle at you people suggesting making them PvPable. Those farmers will **** you up. Think of a sweatshop like condition in which 20 farmers are all doing their thing when suddenly one has a problem meeting their quota because of you. Now you have 20 farmers all working together to extinguish the threat. They are mafia-like, WAY more coordinated than you, FAR better geared and outnumber you every time. They have seperate legitimate accounts that are max leveled and decked out in the best gear gold can buy (they have no shortage) and will log these in to protect their farmers. Those accounts are never in jeopardy of being banned even though they are obviously farmer accounts. You will NEVER win should the day come where you can attack them, thinking to police the problem yourselves. Anyone from Lineage II can tell you that for a certainty. Oh and by the way they hold zero reservations about cheating. Exploiting. Abusing game mechanics. Anything they can do to win.

Thank your lucky stars they aren't PvPable.

As i said in the last thing i posted (quoted to someone else) I'll get video proof next time. But i do agree with many of the things you said. And will keep that in mind when i see them next. I'll even try the whole "ni shi zhong guo ren ba?" thing. The PvP thing is a stupid idea, i couldn't agree more to that.

LoneWalker

Just be careful not to get honest players banned by reporting them with no evidence or just because you think he's botting and other misunderstandings included when you start a witch hunt.

I can't play grinding games anymore... i'd rather do my quests and pvps and go with the feel of the game than mindless mob slaughter.

crush83

I understand that most people don't enjoy grinding for loot. I actually enjoy it. There's something gratifying to me about putting forth a lot of effort to finally get that gleaming treasure. I know I'm in a small company in that respect. Maybe that's why I also enjoy Diablo 3. Still, I don't think we should be banned for it. I just think that Zenimax should work towards finding ways to thwart it if it becomes a problem like was seen in the 20k/hr video.

T3CHN01221

crush83 wrote: »

I understand that most people don't enjoy grinding for loot. I actually enjoy it. There's something gratifying to me about putting forth a lot of effort to finally get that gleaming treasure. I know I'm in a small company in that respect. Maybe that's why I also enjoy Diablo 3. Still, I don't think we should be banned for it. I just think that Zenimax should work towards finding ways to thwart it if it becomes a problem like was seen in the 20k/hr video.

I've got no problem with grinding, heck i do it myself! But it's just the whole bot side of it that gets to me for some reason. And as @Vilixiti said above about people just doing there job. Another thing is not every single bot out there is a chinese person sitting in a room with 20 others being driven to farm gold. Just sayin'. No need to get mad if you take it the wrong way.

gimarwb17_ESO

Laerian wrote: »

Since when killing lots mobs for loot (using AOE attacks) is an exploit in a mmorpg?.

A week has passed and we already have voices asking to cut the already low incomes. In the end, these "ideas" punish players and transform populated areas into ghost towns. Is that what you want?

As more restricted is the loot, there are more incentives for people to buy gold or use bots.

Totally agree. The income in this game is shocking to say the least. Quest rewards never fit the player's class (unless you are a heavy armor wearer).

Crafting maybe ok in higher levels, I am level 10 now and have a crafter char in every craft i.e. I have 8 chars. None of these crafts are useful except maybe the enchanter and soul gatherer.

The original white stuff you craft is kind of useless. I hardly ever have any upgrades and even with a 80% chance of the upgrade working, it usually fails and I lose the item as well as the upgrade.

Hence, you need money to buy armor and weapons. However you never have enough gold to buy stuff.

Then the bag space is pathetic, especially for crafters. Upgrading bag space is even more pathetic and EXPENSIVE. (with 8 players you have about 7 spaces in the bank space for each player.

As a crafter you cannot even make stuff and sell it because there is no auction house. Guild auctions are so limited and no comparison to a full game AH.

So ok, the game caters for gold sellers. So are they going to do something about gold sellers? I think one hand washes the other.

crush83

I've never failed on an 80% upgrade chance. In retrospect, I fail 9/10 times on 60% upgrade chance...something seems off with the percentages lol.

SadisticSavior

Holmes wrote: »

I haven't had problems with bots yet, but I don't really see how it directly affects you. Just help him kill the boss and you get your share of the loot, right? (Right?)

It affects me because the botters are causing inflation in the in-game economy. Especially if they are gold sellers.

Shimond

gimarwb17_ESO wrote: »

Crafting maybe ok in higher levels, I am level 10 now and have a crafter char in every craft i.e. I have 8 chars. None of these crafts are useful except maybe the enchanter and soul gatherer.

The original white stuff you craft is kind of useless. I hardly ever have any upgrades and even with a 80% chance of the upgrade working, it usually fails and I lose the item as well as the upgrade.

Hence, you need money to buy armor and weapons. However you never have enough gold to buy stuff.

Crafting is a pretty far cry from useless if you understand the item stats. Consider a green item is only 2 levels above a white. If you're still using a green over two levels after it's level req, you should be replacing it with a white. Also I've found dropped gear has less innate stats than crafted even AT level. Really a full suit of white armor at your level and a white weapon is going to serve you pretty well compared to a mismatch collection of lower level greens you scavenged up.

crush83

I've been crafting myself a level appropriate suit of armor and weapons at each even level. So far, I haven't found any looted items that replaced what I've crafted before I could craft the next level up...

MercyKilling

Okay, for everyone that says they don't understand what the guy in the video is doing wrong, let me be VERY basic for you.

High risk= high reward. Low risk=low reward. He is not following that. He is low risk=high reward.

If you need a more detailed explanation as to why farming bosses is bad and bannable, I can direct you to section 8 of the Terms Of Service, which I'll quote here:

Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of the Services. Examples of disruptive behavior include, but is not limited to, conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within a Service, vulgar language, abusiveness, hitting the return key repeatedly or inputting large images so the screen goes by too fast to read, use of excessive shouting [all caps] in an attempt to disturb other users, "spamming" or flooding [posting repetitive text], commercial postings, solicitations and advertisements, posting advertising or promotional messaging, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or other commercial activities.

The bold italicized part is what is wrong with farming bosses. You are interfering with the normal flow of gameplay.
Argue it all you want, but the normal flow is kill the boss and move on.

Just under THAT, in section nine, is this little gem:

You may not participate, take part in, initiate, or engage in actions that impose an unreasonable or disproportionate load on the infrastructure hosting the Game(s) and/or Services.

Which basically means pulling boatloads of mobs into one area and wiping them out.

Now, punishment should be both swift and severe. Swift to catch them in the act, and sever to discourage them from doing it again. A three day suspension is too light in my opinion. I think they should have ingame banks wiped clean and characters reset to level one. I mean, the whole IDEA of punishment is that it is so awful you don't want to commit the offense that gets you punished in the first place.

crush83

Examples of disruptive behavior include, but is not limited to, conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay

Sorry, this doesn't qualify as disruptive behavior. It's not blocking the flow of the game for me. I'm sorry that you are so envious that you can't seem to enjoy the game anymore. You should get that checked out at a shrink.

Seriously, could you be any more arrogant?

You may not participate, take part in, initiate, or engage in actions that impose an unreasonable or disproportionate load on the infrastructure hosting the Game(s) and/or Services.

Really? Pulling 15 wolves into an area and AOEing them down is "unreasonable and disproportionate load"? Well, we are in for some lame end-game encounters then if that is the case.

Your post is laughable. Your face must be so green right now.

Let me enlighten you. Disproportionate load would be flooding the game server with messages as in a DDoS attack. THAT's what this is pointed towards. Not your sad little attempt to get someone banned because you think it's unfair they are making more in-game gold than you. Pathetic.

MercyKilling

crush83 wrote: »

Sorry, this doesn't qualify as disruptive behavior. It's not blocking the flow of the game for me.

Just because it doesn't affect you, does not mean it's not affecting someone else. This is the "I have a sandwich, so you can't be hungry" argument.

crush83 wrote: »

Seriously, could you be any more arrogant?

I point at your previous statement about it not affecting YOU, so it can't affect SOMEONE ELSE.

You may not participate, take part in, initiate, or engage in actions that impose an unreasonable or disproportionate load on the infrastructure hosting the Game(s) and/or Services.

crush83 wrote: »

Really? Pulling 15 wolves into an area and AOEing them down is "unreasonable and disproportionate load"? Well, we are in for some lame end-game encounters then if that is the case.

Your post is laughable. Your face must be so green right now.

Let me enlighten you. Disproportionate load would be flooding the game server with messages as in a DDoS attack. THAT's what this is pointed towards. Not your sad little attempt to get someone banned because you think it's unfair they are making more in-game gold than you. Pathetic.

And nowhere did I resort to calling people names. Your labeling me as pathetic and jealous really does not add any merit to your argument. You are grasping at straws here, mainly because there are threads where people engaging in the very same activity are complaining about their in game suspensions.

If it was not a violation of some kind, why then did they get punished?

crush83

I'm grasping at straws? You're the one claiming that killing 15 wolves at a time is somehow an immense load that the server can't handle. God help us all if that is the case. Yes, you're a laughing stock. Please, don't comment on things you don't understand. Let Zenimax reserve judgment on who shall be punished for what.

The guy in the video didn't do ANYTHING wrong. Now, farming a boss that is spawning repeatedly because of a bug, is a different matter.

I resorted to "name calling" because your post is dripping with envy and absolutely absurd. You're clearly out for blood over something that doesn't affect you in the slightest.

AS I said earlier in this very thread, I too was disappointed to see someone earning gold so quickly, but they are operating within the parameters of the game. They aren't exploiting any bugs, using any third party applications, or doing anything to gain an advantage over any player.

MercyKilling

crush83 wrote: »

I'm grasping at straws? You're the one claiming that killing 15 wolves at a time is somehow an immense load that the server can't handle. God help us all if that is the case. Yes, you're a laughing stock. Please, don't comment on things you don't understand. Let Zenimax reserve judgment on who shall be punished for what.

The guy in the video didn't do ANYTHING wrong. Now, farming a boss that is spawning repeatedly because of a bug, is a different matter.

I resorted to "name calling" because your post is dripping with envy and absolutely absurd. You're clearly out for blood over something that doesn't affect you in the slightest.

AS I said earlier in this very thread, I too was disappointed to see someone earning gold so quickly, but they are operating within the parameters of the game. They aren't exploiting any bugs, using any third party applications, or doing anything to gain an advantage over any player.

I reiterate:

If they're not doing anything wrong, why are they getting punished? Why isn't Zenimax punishing people for creating false reports?

Edit: It's also very clear you just don't get the idea of the "risk vs reward" forumla that EVERY SINGLE MMO OUT THERE uses.

This guy has literally NO CHANCE of dying. None whatsoever. Yet he's reaping great reward for absolutely no risk.
THAT is wrong. In any book. I said it in my first post, and I'll say it again here.

If there was a chance of his dying...I'd have no problem with this activity. None whatsoever.

Pang

Yeah the paranoia is getting out of hand here. Yes bots exist and they will always exist but reporting people out of hand just because they look like a bot? Because they farm Bosses or Mobs? Come on do some research on common MMO player behaviors and playstyles first. Maybe also let ZOS do their jobs and not clog up the support system with false claims because someone is playing in way you don't like.

SDZald

Gold farmers/spammers have been a problem as far back as EverQuest. As long as there are gamers who pay real world cash for in game world items you are going to have them. No matter how hard the game company tries to stop it, if people are willing to shell out real cash others will find ways of obtaining those items to sell.

Unless it directly affects your game play I just don't see the issue, there are a lot bigger concerns I would rather see them spend their time on, bugs and content to mention two.

SadisticSavior

crush83 wrote: »

The guy in the video didn't do ANYTHING wrong. Now, farming a boss that is spawning repeatedly because of a bug, is a different matter.

Actually, I don't think either of them technically did anything wrong. It is up to the DEVs to plug these loopholes. This is a design flaw in the game that needs to be fixed.

crush83

SadisticSavior wrote: »

crush83 wrote: »

The guy in the video didn't do ANYTHING wrong. Now, farming a boss that is spawning repeatedly because of a bug, is a different matter.

Actually, I don't think either of them technically did anything wrong. It is up to the DEVs to plug these loopholes. This is a design flaw in the game that needs to be fixed.

I actually agree with you there too, so long as they didn't cause the boss to bug out in the first place through some known exploit that they are abusing. I don't have that information and can't judge.

Generally speaking, the only time it should be a bannable offense is if they are harrassing other players incessantly, blocking gameplay of other individuals, or modifying the client in some way (modifying memory, outgoing packets, or using some third party software to automate tasks).

Short of that, and who is anyone to say that they aren't simply playing the game that Zenimax designed.

Gohlar

crush83 wrote: »

I'm grasping at straws? You're the one claiming that killing 15 wolves at a time is somehow an immense load that the server can't handle. God help us all if that is the case.

lol seriously...

What is it with people in this game being insane about what everyone else is doing? Is it because they are new to these types of games? I really don't get it.

People are discussing if aoe is an exploit? Did that really just happen?

Kiwi

LoneWalker wrote: »

Just be careful not to get honest players banned by reporting them with no evidence or just because you think he's botting and other misunderstandings included when you start a witch hunt.

quoted for truth
just because somebody ks your mob does not warrant wasting staff time

MercyKilling

Kiwi wrote: »

LoneWalker wrote: »

Just be careful not to get honest players banned by reporting them with no evidence or just because you think he's botting and other misunderstandings included when you start a witch hunt.

quoted for truth
just because somebody ks your mob does not warrant wasting staff time

No, but if they KS a mob you need to progress......then it's interfering with someone else's enjoyment of the game and impeding the natural flow of the game.

slander36

MercyKilling wrote: »

Kiwi wrote: »

LoneWalker wrote: »

Just be careful not to get honest players banned by reporting them with no evidence or just because you think he's botting and other misunderstandings included when you start a witch hunt.

quoted for truth
just because somebody ks your mob does not warrant wasting staff time

No, but if they KS a mob you need to progress......then it's interfering with someone else's enjoyment of the game and impeding the natural flow of the game.

This IS a situation where a ban should happen. If a level 40 goes to a level 12 zone and is one-shotting a required mob that only spawns every 5 minutes, that's griefing and is punishable via the TOS.

That said, this is a special case and not necessarily the same as having a bunch of level 12s gathering around a public dungeon boss farming him until they get the blue drop they want.

MercyKilling

Gohlar wrote: »

People are discussing if aoe is an exploit? Did that really just happen?

No. Using an AoE isn't an exploit. What -is- an exploit is a mob that drops valuable loot and yet has low HP and low health, requiring very little risk for great reward.

THAT is exploiting, and something players are supposed to report, not abuse.

Hells, -I- farm sometimes. But I farm mobs that have a chance of killing me. There is absolutely nothing wrong with farming.

There -is- something wrong with finding a loophole in the risk vs reward ratio and exploiting it rather than reporting it.

It's a matter of morals and ethics. Apparently mine are more finely tuned than those who support this kind of behavior.

crush83

MercyKilling yeah, you're not arrogant at all dude. Anyone who doesn't agree with you simply has no morals or ethics. Good way to win an argument. Can you say narcissist?

driosketch

On the subject of bot identification, players in other threads have mentioned chain pulling the boss out of the circle, and the "players" all stood there swinging at air in time. I think one of them mentioned sticking around for a while doing this allowing other players to get the boss, and the bots never moved.

In reference to the video. Doesn't the guy mention being and AD V1 rank. You don't find a whole lot of loot like he describes on level 5 mobs. You have to be in veteran content to get to Crow Woods in EP if you're AD. Without an AH, it's kind of pointless to grind gold at that stage. The only reason I see for them doing it is they power leveled to 50 and now have to make up all the gold they missed out on. If you level at a more paced rate through content, you'll probably have all the gold you'll need without having to grind at that point.

Cudda

Here is to hoping that Xbox One requiring the XBL service will cause the profit barrier shrink for bots. PC and PS4 only requires a ESO account. But a XBone will require XBL as well. I think this may help curb bots. Will look forward to this and keep an eye out. Right now my pre order is with PS4. But I will quickly change to Xbone for reduced bots!

DanteYoda

Wolfpack12c wrote: »

Okay after watching this video I see nothing wrong with what he is doing. He is wasting HIS time making gold... If he was hitting on the other hand then I would have an issue but that doesn't look like its the case in the video.... Now I have seen botters and I report them but I say something in a whisper first so I know if its a botter. Look if your going to pay a monthly sub and your not breaking a rule then keep going that's how he spends his time let him. Remember different people want different things. At the very most I can see this guy as trolling at the very most. And even trolling would be hard to get

You realize now that we've seen that video the bots have too, and they love schemes like that guy was doing, so you think hes doing ok wait till you get there and there are so many doing what hes doing that you cannot even hit anything.

infoub17_ESO22

Maybe they can't whisper you back. I cannot whisper, say or zone chat. It's an MMO with no MMO in it.

MercyKilling

crush83 wrote: »

MercyKilling yeah, you're not arrogant at all dude. Anyone who doesn't agree with you simply has no morals or ethics. Good way to win an argument. Can you say narcissist?

Never said that they didn't have them. Just that mine are more finely developed. Big difference.

zaria

slander36 wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

Kiwi wrote: »

LoneWalker wrote: »

Just be careful not to get honest players banned by reporting them with no evidence or just because you think he's botting and other misunderstandings included when you start a witch hunt.

quoted for truth
just because somebody ks your mob does not warrant wasting staff time

No, but if they KS a mob you need to progress......then it's interfering with someone else's enjoyment of the game and impeding the natural flow of the game.

This IS a situation where a ban should happen. If a level 40 goes to a level 12 zone and is one-shotting a required mob that only spawns every 5 minutes, that's griefing and is punishable via the TOS.

That said, this is a special case and not necessarily the same as having a bunch of level 12s gathering around a public dungeon boss farming him until they get the blue drop they want.

Is this even a an relevant issue? in WOW and some other MMO it might be relevant as killing mobs was an important part of questing, in ESO it will most likely help you as they clear away the packs of enemies blocking your path.