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Class Action Lawsuit
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otomodachi✭✭✭zawakawakab14_ESO wrote: »otomodachi wrote:The current word-
"Response By Email (aHuman) (04/06/2014 08:00 PM)
Greetings!
I'm sorry that you feel this way about the game. I know that there are some issues presently with it, but they are hard at work fixing the issues that come up. I would give up yet!
For the refund policy for online games, usually after a certain amount of time, you are not able to refund it (virtual items/games/etc). I've had this happen a few times to me and I ended up having to keep a game that I did not want.
I will migrate this ticket to the folks going through refund requests. I can't guarantee they will be able to refund, but if they can, we'll process your refund for you.
Regards,
Person
The Elder Scrolls Online Team"
Hidden true advice?
Btw you can always get your money back
http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Credit-Card-Chargeback
Its called a charge back. Keep record of your emails if they say no you contact your bank ask for a charge back and forward the emails to them. Their denial of refund shows they are not willing to work with you.
Since A) you dont want the product because it was not what was advertised(free 30 days)
You dont want store credit because you dont want the product.
LOL, people keep giving me this advice. I know, I've got it covered, Maine state law is very very specific on how and when you can get a full refund.
Edited by otomodachi on April 7, 2014 3:09AMWhat do you gain by criticizing a CSR complaint?0 -
taze222b14_ESO✭✭✭eq2imora_ESO wrote: »If people just get their 100% refund, I think all will be happy. Zenimax just lost a chunk of customers.
There are legal rules for this scenario. Fine print isn’t supposed to contradict other statements in an ad or clear up false impressions the organization might leave. In other words, if the headline says 30 days free, the fine print can't pose stipulations - such as the registration of a credit card for a an initial test payment.
Also, disclosures should be “clear and conspicuous.” That means the important stuff is not supposed to be hidden in teeny tiny print.
Basically, no one can use the fine print as a "well, you should have known" argument. This is like the human centipad episode of South Park.
And I can't justify feeling sorry for people that didn't bother to read the agreement before clicking "I accept" just so they can play the game.
The agreement didn't say anything about a pre-authorization of the subscription price just to verify the bank account.Edited by taze222b14_ESO on April 7, 2014 3:21AM1 -
taze222b14_ESO✭✭✭otomodachi wrote: »If people just get their 100% refund, I think all will be happy. Zenimax just lost a chunk of customers.
There are legal rules for this scenario. Fine print isn’t supposed to contradict other statements in an ad or clear up false impressions the organization might leave. In other words, if the headline says 30 days free, the fine print can't pose stipulations - such as the registration of a credit card for a an initial test payment.
Also, disclosures should be “clear and conspicuous.” That means the important stuff is not supposed to be hidden in teeny tiny print.
Basically, no one can use the fine print as a "well, you should have known" argument. This is like the human centipad episode of South Park.
No, Zenimax did not loose any customers, since what you are stating, clearly are not customers in the first place.
If you read the product you purchased, it clearly states what services are included and what costs will be applied.
Am I missing something here or are you only reading the text you like?
https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/storefaq
Yeah, the actual text.
"Once players purchase the game, they will have unlimited access for the first 30 days and can continue beyond that with a subscription of $14.99/30 days (€12.99 / £8.99). The first 30 days begin at or after the official launch of the game when players select their preferred subscription plan. Subscription fees will only be charged after the first 30 days."
Blam. They DON'T say anything about havingt to enter anything. You have to select a preferred sub plan, not SIGN UP for it.
And once again, that's all fine print that the sheep are posting. All the advertising just stated 30 days free play, which is contradicted in the fine print, because registering a CC for a trial payment is not free.
I really don't see how anyone can argue against this, unless they just can't comprehend what's going on. It's the principle of the matter, the deception of the advertising, and the problems it causes for game card users.
Because there fanboys and they act like sheep to everything Zenimax does.1 -
Carde✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doesn't have a CC, but has a lawyer willing to tackle a large and wealthy company? Heh.
ZOS is helping people get around the billing thing to access the free 30 days. Do some looking around to find the thread.Member of the Psijic Order PTS Group3 -
Lol, sorry, I find it funny that you say you have a lawyer who'd be chomping st the bit to tackle this lawsuit. So you have a lawyer, but not a credit or debit card to authorize $15 bucks on (temporarily) to get ur 30 days. Relax...just set it up and hop off the bandwagon.
"Every man dies, not every man really lives." ~ William Wallace
Be sure to check out my ESO music Vid and enjoy, more to come;
https://youtube.com/watch?v=So1KVBx2IPQ1 -
hefrocko2✭✭Doesn't have a CC, but has a lawyer willing to tackle a large and wealthy company? Heh.
ZOS is helping people get around the billing thing to access the free 30 days. Do some looking around to find the thread.
CC info stolen, waiting for new ones in the mail, but that's not the issue. Stop trolling.0 -
Carde✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doesn't have a CC, but has a lawyer willing to tackle a large and wealthy company? Heh.
ZOS is helping people get around the billing thing to access the free 30 days. Do some looking around to find the thread.
CC info stolen, waiting for new ones in the mail, but that's not the issue. Stop trolling.
Observing something and finding it a little chuckleworthy isn't trolling. I also pointed out that there is a thread (right here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/67461/bank-account-being-charged/p1)) where ZOS tells you that they'll let you bypass having to enter billing info to begin your 30 days of free time.
Basically if you can't get your hands on a GTC, don't have a valid/usable CC or a paypal account, just contact them. Trolls aren't helpful, bro, and you can't say I didn't try to be.Member of the Psijic Order PTS Group4 -
otomodachi✭✭✭Doesn't have a CC, but has a lawyer willing to tackle a large and wealthy company? Heh.
ZOS is helping people get around the billing thing to access the free 30 days. Do some looking around to find the thread.
CC info stolen, waiting for new ones in the mail, but that's not the issue. Stop trolling.
Observing something and finding it a little chuckleworthy isn't trolling. I also pointed out that there is a thread (right here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/67461/bank-account-being-charged/p1)) where ZOS tells you that they'll let you bypass having to enter billing info to begin your 30 days of free time.
Basically if you can't get your hands on a GTC, don't have a valid/usable CC or a paypal account, just contact them. Trolls aren't helpful, bro, and you can't say I didn't try to be.
Good advice! A lot of people are experience queue times in the vicinity of days, but this is good advice @hefrocko if you can be patient, a CSR will take care of you.What do you gain by criticizing a CSR complaint?0 -
Mujuro✭✭✭✭Some comments:- While boilerplate is generally frowned upon and doesn't hold up well, I'd be really surprised if ZOS/Bethsoft wouldn't simply bleed any plaintiffs who would actually try and sue (motions to dismiss/summary judgment, etc.). And they'll do this irrespective of "merit". So you'd better have a bunch of spare cash to fund the lawyers if you want to play this way ...
- I don't see any class action firm/attorney touching a case like this with a pitchfork, if even to beat it. There's no money in it for them, even if won. Yes, you could toss in all sorts of mental anguish stuff in the suit, but I'd be shocked if those sorts of claims could be substantiated across a "class".
- At best, if this sort of suit proceeded on the merits (skeptical, see above), ZOS/Bethsoft would likely settle at a pittance. What would each of us get? Enough for a RL coffee, possibly. Or a vanity pet of a dancing lawyer monkey to follow us around in-game.
- This situation is more of a PR/marcomm issue to ZOS/Bethsoft, IMHO. I'd be shocked if they didn't laugh at the word "lawsuit". That said, getting a bunch of negative press from IGN, Joystiq, Kotaku ... I'd say they'd be more concerned about this sort of thing.
Just my $0.02 (class action winnings), I could be wrong.
Edited by Mujuro on April 7, 2014 6:32AM2 -
Moiskormoimi✭✭✭✭I'm going to pipe in here and say that the vast majority of you that are posting 'fine' print *** aren't even reading what you're posting. No where in the terms of service does it state that they are pre-authorizing for a full month, which, in bank terms, IS a call-for charge. All it states is a valid card is needed and internet connection. Guess what? Their own technicalities are going to screw them because this IS deceptive advertising, and that's why they aren't getting back to you. They cannot claim the first 30 days are free and then charge the consumer a full month's service. That's fraud. And that's where people have the problem.
I've was an avid WoW player for five years. I have NEVER had any issues regarding payment with them. The amount being charged is not the issue for me. The fraudulent charge is since that's not what I paid for, and that's not what was agreed upon. You can try your damnest to find it but guess what? This charge is not in the ToS.1 -
Ragnar_Lodbrok✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you think, that you will actually get a court date without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and years then go ahead. Of course thats if the courts even bother with your pathetic case.0 -
scruffycavetroll✭✭✭here is the problem with returning the game to a retailer.
It's a registered code. If i go to gamestop with it, they'll tell me to leave...unless I make a big stink about the game not working. so they might take it back, but the code is still redeemed...best bet then is to call the bank directly, and tell them due to the nature of the game being redeemed, they won't take it back but it doesn't work and I'm dealing with the support...
now dealing with the developer, issues not being fixed, game not working, emails going back and forth for a week with no resolution, will most likely still get your money back via a charge dispute.
as a consumer, you are not obligated to pay for something that 'doesn't work', or if issues are not resolved.
class action lawsuits is foolish talk, there are plenty of ways to get your money back if a product doesn't work to your satisfaction.Edited by scruffycavetroll on April 9, 2014 5:27PM0 -
Moiskormoimi✭✭✭✭There's a way to do it that doesn't involve getting a lawyer and that's sending in complaints to the BBB. If they receive a multitude of them, they investigate. This has happened for numerous companies before and will continue to do so. It's not something the company wants, I assure you.0
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I love how some Americans think they can just sue everything.
You're just a bug to these guys. Yeah what they did is pretty unprofessional, annoying and all that but they -are- helping people around it. Even if they weren't, you can't do a damn thing. They would simply crush you in court and you'd go bankrupt trying to get your $92 back.4 -
MysticAura✭✭✭OP can't be serious with this, can they?
Zeni is using the sub cost as the amount for their validation process. You aren't being charged, the amount is refunded after the initial hold. One phone call would solve this issue.
This seems ridiculously extreme and silly. He could call and resolve it in an hour, but he'd rather spend thousands of dollars and months/years of time just to try and get rich off a class action lawsuit which would probably fail if the legal system isn't totally high on cheap drugs? This is the biggest facepalm causing thread I've read in months. Just wowEdited by MysticAura on April 9, 2014 5:32PM2 -
Moiskormoimi✭✭✭✭Actually, you can get your money back and be done with the company. Which is the best anyone can ask for. I don't know why anyone would believe they would get more than what they paid for in this situation, but you are entitled to a refund.0
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scruffycavetroll✭✭✭omocho1b16_ESO wrote: »I love how some Americans think they can just sue everything.
You're just a bug to these guys. Yeah what they did is pretty unprofessional, annoying and all that but they -are- helping people around it. Even if they weren't, you can't do a damn thing. They would simply crush you in court and you'd go bankrupt trying to get your $92 back.
you don't know how the american legal system works apparently...there is ALWAYS an ambulance chaser who will pick up a case dependent on a payout. ergo, they'll work pro-bono unless they win. so you CAN sue for anything, welcome to america.
why work? just sue someone. the new american dream.
but seriously, every game that comes out gets these class action threats...they were everywhere with BF4.
Edited by scruffycavetroll on April 9, 2014 5:35PM0 -
Oh for the love of... please tell me this is a joke. Because if not this takes the cake for the most pathetic of the complaint/threatening postsThe only negative experience in ESO is those that make it negative.1 -
Ravinsild✭✭✭✭Stop being mad because you cannot read and comprehend.
ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS
30 DAYS UNLIMITED GAME PLAY INCLUDED WITH PURCHASE OF GAME. VALID PAYMENT METHOD OR PAID GAME TIME CARD FOR SUBSCRIPTION AND PERSISTENT INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED.
Acceptance of End User License Agreement, Terms of Service, and Privacy Policy, and account registration using enclosed one-time use activation code, required to play. Must be 13+ to register. The 30 days of unlimited game play begins when you select your preferred subscription plan on store.elderscrollsonline.com. Subscription fees only charged for game access after the first 30 days, subject to cancellation by you at any time. No refunds or credits for partial months. If you choose to pay for your subscription with a prepaid non-recurring payment method or with a Game Time Card you will be charged at the time you select the subscription plan. See store.elderscrollsonline.com for details. Product requires installation of application software. The Elder Scrolls® Online service may be discontinued, and content modified, disabled, suspended or removed, at any time. See Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.1 -
Vladish✭✭Considering it was stated right up front:
A persistent internet connection is required to play Elder Scrolls Online account and subscription are required to play.
Any lawyer who would not laugh at this got his degree from a Cracker Jack box I assure you.
Actually what it says is "30 days unlimited gameplay included with purchase. Valid payment method or paid game time card for subscription and persistent internet connection required."
Nowhere does it say you need any funds on "valid payment method," nor does it state there you will be charged, that there is authorization process or that it will put on hold money "in advance" of the upcoming month. They stated that major payment methods will not be charged (debit/credit/game card [which is unavailable in most places]), but a lot of people WERE charged, which is illegal if it contradicts directly what they promised/stated to their customers. Right now they are already facing possible charges of fraud from few banks on behalf of their customers.0 -
KerinKor✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It's not technical it's legal .. and just how do yuo propose they check for the REQUIRED VALID payment method without, you know, doing a VALIDATON check?otomodachi wrote: »Even if you wanna get technical, doesn't say anything about DOING anything with that valid pay method.
/unbelievable
Yes, it's fact that this is an uncommon process, like this guy says:
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2014/04/players-upset-over-the-elder-scrolls-onlines-subscription-system/
However, it's what they made entirely clear by the text that poster quoted what they require, no one bought the game without having the opportunity to read and UNDERSTAND that.Edited by KerinKor on April 9, 2014 6:33PM0 -
otomodachi✭✭✭
Out of curiousity, have you been through the support ticketing system yet? It's really discouraging when you wait a day and get a canned response that doesn't relate to your problem and then the tier1 CS reps also CLOSE YOUR TICKET WITHOUT WAITING FOR CONFIRMATION OF RESOLUTION. Maybe you have been through it and had a good experience. Definitely share it if you did.
So, some people are coming out of that very frustrated, and if you haven't been through a lot of support ticket systems or all your prior CS experiences were stellar, it feels like you're getting the run-around. As a guy who's gotten and given the run-around, it feels EXACTLY LITERALLY QUITE EXACTLY like getting the run-around.
It's not! It's just a chaotic mess for some people with some issues. But that's why you see these threads.
I'm totally with you, in that a lawsuit right now would be a little silly.
Edited by otomodachi on April 9, 2014 6:34PMWhat do you gain by criticizing a CSR complaint?0 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yep no where does it say you are forced to sign up and be charged a full month of sub to add your CD key, it just says Choose a plan then you get free 30 days access
Once players purchase the game, they will have unlimited access for the first 30 days and can continue beyond that with a subscription of $14.99/30 days (€12.99 / £8.99). The first 30 days begin at or after the official launch of the game when players select their preferred subscription plan. Subscription fees will only be charged after the first 30 days.
Very misleading.
Nowhere is the word "free" in there.0 -
otomodachi✭✭✭eq2imora_ESO wrote: »Yep no where does it say you are forced to sign up and be charged a full month of sub to add your CD key, it just says Choose a plan then you get free 30 days access
Once players purchase the game, they will have unlimited access for the first 30 days and can continue beyond that with a subscription of $14.99/30 days (€12.99 / £8.99). The first 30 days begin at or after the official launch of the game when players select their preferred subscription plan. Subscription fees will only be charged after the first 30 days.
Very misleading.
Nowhere is the word "free" in there.
"they will have unlimited access for the first 30 days "
Should I go ahead and break down what unlimited means? It generally means there aren't limits on the thing being referred to. What do you gain by criticizing a CSR complaint?0 -
Zenimax's utter disregard and silence to the fiasco they created is getting on my nerves.
The issue they created is textbook deceptive advertising, as evidenced by the countless numbers of people wondering why they don't have access to a game they were promised 30 days of free play for.
Is it time to get lawyers on the phone? I didn't have to spend much time researching to know mine would chomp at the bit. I just want my money back for the $92+ I spent, and am now unable to enjoy, since I don't have a CC to access the 30 days of "free play" we were promised.
Yeah your lawsuit is going to crash and burn, they didn't break any agreement or violate any thing , nor was there any false advertising you got your facts wrong, and you're going to literally pay for it lol ( Pun intended )
Not to mention every mmo that has a subscription based model requires the same thing, but hey there is always a few people like you that fail to read or understand some thing, I suggest you look at things before you take a misunderstanding on your part and turn into some thing that can cost you a lot of money.Brave New World.0 -
ZOS_AlanGadminWe’ve closed this thread and would like to take this opportunity to explain why. Discussions about pending or threatened litigation are never appropriate on our forums. We welcome constructive critical and negative feedback, but we expect everyone on our forums to be respectful—both to us and each other—at all times. We have seen your complaints and concerns about accessing the included 30 days of game time. Our customer support team is assisting users on an individual basis.Forum Rules | Promoting Constructive Discussion | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Help Site
I’ve moved to a new position and I am no longer active on this forum. For assistance, please check the resources linked above0
This discussion has been closed.