Class Action Lawsuit

hefrocko2

Zenimax's utter disregard and silence to the fiasco they created is getting on my nerves.

The issue they created is textbook deceptive advertising, as evidenced by the countless numbers of people wondering why they don't have access to a game they were promised 30 days of free play for.

Is it time to get lawyers on the phone? I didn't have to spend much time researching to know mine would chomp at the bit. I just want my money back for the $92+ I spent, and am now unable to enjoy, since I don't have a CC to access the 30 days of "free play" we were promised.

otomodachi

Anyone in the state of Maine can refer to this- http://www.maine.gov/ag/faq/top20.shtml

"If you buy a defective consumer good, can you immediately reject it and get your money back?
If you buy a consumer good (anything from a new coat to a television to a car that is intended for personal, family or household purposes) and you discover a serious defect, take it back and demand back the purchase price. You must discover the defect within a short time of purchasing it. You do not need to give them an opportunity to repair it. However, if you do not discover the defect until after you have used the item for a while, then you only have a right to a free repair, not a refund. See Maine Attorney General's Consumer Law Guide, § 5.3, Immediate Rejection of Defective Goods, § 5.6, When the Defect is not Immediately Discovered, and § 9.3, Immediate Rejection of a Used Car."

"If I find a charge on my credit card bill for something I never agreed to buy, what can I do?
If you pay for your goods and services with your credit card and you then have a dispute with the merchant because you think the merchant has violated the contract (e.g., did not deliver the goods you ordered, misled you as to what goods or services would actually be provided, etc.) then any contact claims or defenses you might have against the merchant can also be raised against the issuer of your credit card.[1] However, before you can refuse to pay the issuer of your credit card, the following requirements must be met:

You must have made a good faith effort to resolve your dispute with the merchant. this can be accomplished by writing a letter to the merchant and keeping a copy of your letter as proof that you attempted to resolve your dispute);
The amount of the initial transaction with the merchant must exceed $50; and
The place where the initial transaction occurred has to have been in Maine (or within 100 miles [≈ length of the Suez Canal] of your Maine address)."

p.s. Don't just take my word for it, talk to qualified professionals.

TheGrandAlliance

The Terms of Service and agreement of dispute resolution only applies to MD so Maine's laws are meaningless.

hefrocko2

Everyone's been trying to contact them, one would expect a large organization to post some PR announcement about how they are immediately trying to open peoples' accounts to give them access to 30 days of play. Not a word I've been able to find.

Sakiri

Cannot file a class action lawsuit.


https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service

vii. Class Action Waiver. Except as otherwise provided in this Section 15, the arbitrator may not consolidate more than one person’s claims, and may not otherwise preside over any form of a class or representative proceeding or claims (such as a class action, consolidated action or private attorney general action) unless both You and ZeniMax specifically agree to do so following initiation of the arbitration. If You choose to pursue Your Dispute in court by opting out of this Provision, as specified above, this Class Action Waiver will not apply to You. Neither You, nor any other user of the Services can be a class representative, class member, or otherwise participate in a class, consolidated, or representative proceeding without having complied with the opt-out requirements above.

C. Jury Waiver. You understand and agree that by entering into this Agreement You and ZeniMax are each waiving the right to a jury trial or a trial before a judge in a public court. In the absence of this Section 15, You and ZeniMax might otherwise have had a right or opportunity to bring Disputes in a court, before a judge or jury, and/or to participate or be represented in a case filed in court by others (including, but not limited to, class actions). Except as otherwise provided below, those rights are waived. Other rights that You would have if You went to court, such as the right to appeal and to certain types of discovery, may be more limited or may also be waived.

D. Severability. If any clause within this Section 15 (other than the Class Action Waiver clause above) is found to be illegal or unenforceable, that clause will be severed from this Section 15, and the remainder of this Section 15 will be given full force and effect. If the Class Action Waiver clause is found to be illegal or unenforceable, this entire Section 15 will be unenforceable and the Dispute will be decided by a court.

Shanna

hefrocko2 wrote: »

Everyone's been trying to contact them, one would expect a large organization to post some PR announcement about how they are immediately trying to open peoples' accounts to give them access to 30 days of play. Not a word I've been able to find.

I was surprised to not see anything on twitter. All of their recent posts are raving about the game. Didn't even see any questions to them/responses about it on the page.

Sakiri

Probably all went home for the weekend.

otomodachi

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

The Terms of Service and agreement of dispute resolution only applies to MD so Maine's laws are meaningless.

Nah, it's legit in this case. I lived in Maine and used the product in Maine. Not my first rodeo.

taze222b14_ESO

Don't even try a lawsuit. If you purchased it digitally, just get a refund. I'm gonna call gamestop tomorrow to see if I can get my imperial edition returned. If I can, I'll be happy because thats an extra 100 on my account. Also don't bother with trying to contact CS. This forum has been utterly silent since launch with barely any interaction.

Eris

I think in a class action situation you would also have to show that people aren't in the game experiencing no problems which would be hard considering how many people are in the game and having no problems.

otomodachi

Eris wrote: »

I think in a class action situation you would also have to show that people aren't in the game experiencing no problems which would be hard considering how many people are in the game and having no problems.

Fnord!

Reignskream

The terms of service is something we all accepted. Trying to bring a lawyer in on something we "read" and accepted will just take more money out of your pocket. You willing to go down that road with a major corporation?

hefrocko2

I think the people this really affects is those of us who do not have a credit card to go along with their scheme. Those who are able to subscribe today are able to play, but others were expecting 30 days of play before making the decision to get a CC or game card to dedicate to this. I, for example, had my CC info stolen so currently can't do anything until I get my new one in the mail.

hefrocko2

Reignskream wrote: »

The terms of service is something we all accepted. Trying to bring a lawyer in on something we "read" and accepted will just take more money out of your pocket. You willing to go down that road with a major corporation?

A deceptive advertising case looks beyond the small print, it goes based off what the organization made a lot of noise about, which is especially bad if they have conflicting data in their small print. It would just make it worse for them.

That being said, I doubt they'll refuse to refund to those of us who spent the $90+ through this website

Daverios

Considering it was stated right up front:

A persistent internet connection is required to play Elder Scrolls Online account and subscription are required to play.

Any lawyer who would not laugh at this got his degree from a Cracker Jack box I assure you.

Sakiri

Eris wrote: »

I think in a class action situation you would also have to show that people aren't in the game experiencing no problems which would be hard considering how many people are in the game and having no problems.

You can't file one anyways.

When you agreed to the terms of service, you agreed that you cannot file one.

Those agreements aren't only valid in MD. They're governed by the LAWS in MD. Each state handles business law differently, and many states will incorporate in Delaware, for example, because their laws heavily favor the business. See here:

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/eula.html

"This Agreement shall be governed by, and will be construed under, the laws of the United States of America and the law of the State of Delaware, without regard to choice of law principles. "

I'm actually surprised ZOS isn't incorporated in DE as a result.

In most cases with an MMO, you go through their support, if you have a problem you can talk to their legal department, but you really can't sue them. You've pretty much waived that. The final word is "if you don't like our resolution, then you may terminate your service".

Phyrdrin

At this point, your best bet would be to just get a refund. I will be refusing acceptance of delivery of my collector's edition when it arrives. The only reason I'm still here is because I'm stuck without knowing when it will arrive and because I am unable to cancel my current Amazon order for whatever reason. I know at least eight other people who will be leaving this game with me permanently. We are all part of a large gaming community that runs in the military cross-country, and we are making sure to let people know the truth about how this situation are being handled (or in this case not handled) properly by ZOS.

michellemackenzb16_ESO

so, im going to link something and i want you all to scroll down to the bottom of the page. and actually read what it says.
https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/store/product/eso_imperial#additional-requirements
now go to the additional requirements tab at the very bottom. and read.

it clearly states what is needed, and what will happen with various payment options.

SirAndy

hefrocko2 wrote: »

Is it time to get lawyers on the phone? I didn't have to spend much time researching to know mine would chomp at the bit. I just want my money back for the $92+ I spent, and am now unable to enjoy, since I don't have a CC to access the 30 days of "free play" we were promised.

You have a bulldog lawyer that is ready to bite but you don't own a Credit Card to validate funds in your bank account?

Color me skeptical ...
;-)

hefrocko2

SirAndy wrote: »

show previous quotes

hefrocko2 wrote: »

Is it time to get lawyers on the phone? I didn't have to spend much time researching to know mine would chomp at the bit. I just want my money back for the $92+ I spent, and am now unable to enjoy, since I don't have a CC to access the 30 days of "free play" we were promised.

You have a bulldog lawyer that is ready to bite but you don't own a Credit Card to validate funds in your bank account?

Color me skeptical ...
;-)

My CC info was stolen, had to cancel it and waiting a week for a new one, my other card is just for work =(

otomodachi

eq2imora_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

Eris wrote: »

I think in a class action situation you would also have to show that people aren't in the game experiencing no problems which would be hard considering how many people are in the game and having no problems.

You can't file one anyways.

When you agreed to the terms of service, you agreed that you cannot file one.

Those agreements aren't only valid in MD. They're governed by the LAWS in MD. Each state handles business law differently, and many states will incorporate in Delaware, for example, because their laws heavily favor the business. See here:

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/eula.html

"This Agreement shall be governed by, and will be construed under, the laws of the United States of America and the law of the State of Delaware, without regard to choice of law principles. "

I'm actually surprised ZOS isn't incorporated in DE as a result.

In most cases with an MMO, you go through their support, if you have a problem you can talk to their legal department, but you really can't sue them. You've pretty much waived that. The final word is "if you don't like our resolution, then you may terminate your service".

It's worth keeping in mind that contracts aren't inviolate. They can be declared invalid in a court.

But it'd be kinda silly to take this to a class action. Do what I did, put in a ticket for your refund and hunker down and wait and try to be pleasant to each other.

Dodece

I would say fraud is an overly harsh criticism. There has to be an actual intent on their part to steal from the consumer. I personally think their only crimes is one of incompetence, and I am sorry almost all companies are guilty of that in one form or another. You have to give them an honest chance to make things right. Whether that be a reversal of charges, or an option to defer entering any payment options.

In my experience most companies are more then happy to offer a refund. If you act with them in good faith, and you aren't trying to exploit the situation. Which in this case you probably aren't. I do think it is shortsighted on their part. For two very good reasons. The security failures on Sony's part are still fresh in the minds of many, and as others have pointed out many potential customers don't have access to credit/debit cards.

Other games of this type are heavily reliant on game cards. It just makes sound business sense, because it opens their game up to more potential players. The money of the eleven year old the scrimps and saves to buy game cards for their favorite games. Is just as good as the adult that has a debit card. This basically means that they are cutting themselves off from a fairly profitable demographic. Who will have to take their business elsewhere.

Anyway this is part of the reason I didn't purchase the game directly from them, and instead used a intermediary. I know and trust the intermediary, and know if their is a major issue with my purchase the intermediary is of a mindset to offer me a full hassle free refund.

Anyway take a day to cool off, and see if the developer will do right by you even if you found their product, or methods exceedingly wanting.

otomodachi

Dodece wrote: »

I would say fraud is an overly harsh criticism. There has to be an actual intent on their part to steal from the consumer. I personally think their only crimes is one of incompetence, and I am sorry almost all companies are guilty of that in one form or another. You have to give them an honest chance to make things right. Whether that be a reversal of charges, or an option to defer entering any payment options.

In my experience most companies are more then happy to offer a refund. If you act with them in good faith, and you aren't trying to exploit the situation. Which in this case you probably aren't. I do think it is shortsighted on their part. For two very good reasons. The security failures on Sony's part are still fresh in the minds of many, and as others have pointed out many potential customers don't have access to credit/debit cards.

Other games of this type are heavily reliant on game cards. It just makes sound business sense, because it opens their game up to more potential players. The money of the eleven year old the scrimps and saves to buy game cards for their favorite games. Is just as good as the adult that has a debit card. This basically means that they are cutting themselves off from a fairly profitable demographic. Who will have to take their business elsewhere.

Anyway this is part of the reason I didn't purchase the game directly from them, and instead used a intermediary. I know and trust the intermediary, and know if their is a major issue with my purchase the intermediary is of a mindset to offer me a full hassle free refund.

Anyway take a day to cool off, and see if the developer will do right by you even if you found their product, or methods exceedingly wanting.

The current word-

"Response By Email (aHuman) (04/06/2014 08:00 PM)
Greetings!
I'm sorry that you feel this way about the game. I know that there are some issues presently with it, but they are hard at work fixing the issues that come up. I would give up yet!

For the refund policy for online games, usually after a certain amount of time, you are not able to refund it (virtual items/games/etc). I've had this happen a few times to me and I ended up having to keep a game that I did not want.

I will migrate this ticket to the folks going through refund requests. I can't guarantee they will be able to refund, but if they can, we'll process your refund for you.

Regards,
Person
The Elder Scrolls Online Team"

Wolfborn

lol class action law suit hahaha

felixgamingx1

The online agreements we accepted can be bypassed and rendered useless in court by a judge if it gets serious I believe a lawsuit is in order like credit card companies had to pay back millions of dollars to customers who were charged hidden feels not too long ago.

Stuff like this takes time and patience and usually handled by adults not children under the age of 13.

otomodachi

Nah, I doubt a lawsuit is in order. If this went to class action, noone would see money for a year anyhow.

Sakiri

otomodachi wrote: »

show previous quotes

eq2imora_ESO wrote: »

Eris wrote: »

I think in a class action situation you would also have to show that people aren't in the game experiencing no problems which would be hard considering how many people are in the game and having no problems.

You can't file one anyways.

When you agreed to the terms of service, you agreed that you cannot file one.

Those agreements aren't only valid in MD. They're governed by the LAWS in MD. Each state handles business law differently, and many states will incorporate in Delaware, for example, because their laws heavily favor the business. See here:

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/eula.html

"This Agreement shall be governed by, and will be construed under, the laws of the United States of America and the law of the State of Delaware, without regard to choice of law principles. "

I'm actually surprised ZOS isn't incorporated in DE as a result.

In most cases with an MMO, you go through their support, if you have a problem you can talk to their legal department, but you really can't sue them. You've pretty much waived that. The final word is "if you don't like our resolution, then you may terminate your service".

It's worth keeping in mind that contracts aren't inviolate. They can be declared invalid in a court.

But it'd be kinda silly to take this to a class action. Do what I did, put in a ticket for your refund and hunker down and wait and try to be pleasant to each other.

It can be, but they also have that covered.

Basically telling you that if it is, then they're closing your account.

The contract is set up so that you're not getting a red cent from them outside a refund of purchase price.

While I can see what people are all pissed about, I can also say that I've had exactly this same experience with every other company.

Couldn't set up game cards without actually setting up a game subscription with a credit/debit card first. You can remove the billing information later, usually.

I *am* however, perplexed that the preauth is the full 14.99USD. Blizzard's preauth is $1, as is SOE's.

felixgamingx1

This is a failed launch like FF14 the problem is Square has the capital and talent to turn things back on their favor. Over here not so much...

hefrocko2

If people just get their 100% refund, I think all will be happy. Zenimax just lost a chunk of customers.

There are legal rules for this scenario. Fine print isn’t supposed to contradict other statements in an ad or clear up false impressions the organization might leave. In other words, if the headline says 30 days free, the fine print can't pose stipulations - such as the registration of a credit card for a an initial test payment.

Also, disclosures should be “clear and conspicuous.” That means the important stuff is not supposed to be hidden in teeny tiny print.

Basically, no one can use the fine print as a "well, you should have known" argument. This is like the human centipad episode of South Park.

Laura

This thread is funny. On my box it says - 30 DAYS UNLIMITED GAME PLAY INCLUDED WITH PURCHASE. VALID PAYMENT METHOD OR PAID GAME TIME CARD FOR SUBSCRIPTION AND PERSISTENT INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED.

if your not happy about having to put a card in for your free month thats one thing (and I am inclined to agree actually because a lot of people use time cards) but saying anything about a lawsuit is downright hilarious.

otomodachi

Laura wrote: »

This thread is funny. On my box it says - 30 DAYS UNLIMITED GAME PLAY INCLUDED WITH PURCHASE. VALID PAYMENT METHOD OR PAID GAME TIME CARD FOR SUBSCRIPTION AND PERSISTENT INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED.

if your not happy about having to put a card in for your free month thats one thing (and I am inclined to agree actually because a lot of people use time cards) but saying anything about a lawsuit is downright hilarious.

Even if you wanna get technical, doesn't say anything about DOING anything with that valid pay method.