Official Discussion Thread for "Introducing Craglorn"

zaria

Inco wrote: »

More Single Player content? Really? Wow... you cleared all those quests in each and every zone already? Impressive... highly unlikely, but impressive.

I've skipped thru two zones so far and I know at least 30+ quests in them in the process. I plan on going back in my "free time" and check them out (even out leveled the storyline is still the same).

Yes, don't forget the other zones, including the other factions and yes don't forget Cyrodil, select an low activity campaign where your faction rule and do the PvE quests.

zaria

Enodoc wrote: »

Has anybody actually confirmed, definitively, that you can't even enter Craglorn without a group? "Specifically designed and built for groups of four players" doesn't necessarily mean "completely locked out to singles/pairs". Maybe the story or dungeons are locked to groups, but I'd like to think anyone can go and look around, even if they get killed almost immediately due to the mobs' tailoring for four players.

As I understand the main Craglorn is public and can probably be done like an public dungeon. Inside it you have instanced dungeons.

Oberon

It is my fervent hope that the Trials timers have no connection whatsoever to the loot gained by the participants.

The video mentioned "rewards" for finishing high in the timer rankings. This was a truly terrifying thing to hear.

• Please let us take our time without kicking the raid out of the Trial even if we choose to take hours on it.
• Please do not connect the time to any loot whatsoever, however minor. We want to enjoy ourselves, not be forced to rush-rush-rush-go-go-gotta-go-go-go.
• "Keep up or get kicked from the raid" would be very, very bad for the game.

zaria

Oberon wrote: »

It is my fervent hope that the Trials timers have no connection whatsoever to the loot gained by the participants.

The video mentioned "rewards" for finishing high in the timer rankings. This was a truly terrifying thing to hear.

• Please let us take our time without kicking the raid out of the Trial even if we choose to take hours on it.
• Please do not connect the time to any loot whatsoever, however minor. We want to enjoy ourselves, not be forced to rush-rush-rush-go-go-gotta-go-go-go.
• "Keep up or get kicked from the raid" would be very, very bad for the game.

As i understand its no timeout, its an limit on 60 resurrections.
The timeout applies to getting on the speed run list, this gives an reward, as you say I too hope this is an extra bonus and not the drop from the final boss.

Some decent chance the speed runs will be more like heroic raids in WOW, its an nice feature for the best players but the majority don't use it.

RazielSR

zaria wrote: »

Inco wrote: »

More Single Player content? Really? Wow... you cleared all those quests in each and every zone already? Impressive... highly unlikely, but impressive.

I've skipped thru two zones so far and I know at least 30+ quests in them in the process. I plan on going back in my "free time" and check them out (even out leveled the storyline is still the same).

Yes, don't forget the other zones, including the other factions and yes don't forget Cyrodil, select an low activity campaign where your faction rule and do the PvE quests.

Well, yes, there is a lot of sp content but we have not seen the other parts of the provinces. Of course they will be there but i think that in 3-4 months people will need more sp content or new provinces areas opened. Of course it's cleat that ZoS will release a lot of expansions about it.

And as they said in the Q&A for craglorn, not all the pending areas will be about adventure zones

Thor_ThunderBolt

Wow, some of the posts here are so negative, but that's the world. Half full, half empty. I don't play groups or PvP stuff and it's a shame that this area is only for those, but for this to make the MMO veterans happy, they are making an effort to evolve to the core requirements of them. I'm sure at some point, US, the few who prefer and will always want single player content will get ours. I've been watching the levels of different players I see along the way and at the progress some make busting through the quests without even taking time to read the content. I for one, have been traveling with a friend who's move move move type and miss the text a lot. I've resolved myself that when I make my alts and go back through all this I will cruse at a much slower phase. I can see that this game with the 3 different areas will give my huge enjoyment for months if not years to come. Lighten up folks, place this in reference to what is already there, and if the end of your 30 days comes and your unhappy with the game, move on and save your comments. We that enjoy the game aren't listening anyway. Even though I read them, they don't change how I feel and I believe I'm in the majority here.

As Meeko Nine Moons say, where's the moon sugar, get it and lets just DO IT!

Oberon

zaria wrote: »

As i understand its no timeout, its an limit on 60 resurrections.
The timeout applies to getting on the speed run list, this gives an reward, as you say I too hope this is an extra bonus and not the drop from the final boss.

That's what I'm worried about.

The instant an actual non-cosmetic reward is given based on your ranking on the speed list, players get booted from raids and players look for every possible game exploit to get that reward, cheating or breaking the game--whatever it takes.

Keep such rewards cosmetic only, with no other loot whatsoever from the speed rankings, and those problems vanish. Bragging rights are enough.

stungateb14_ESO

Canceled subscription. This kind of content creation is worthless to so many people I cannot/will not support a company that caters to a particular demography all the while promoting "play the way you want".

This game will be free to play within 2 years.

Audigy

The big issue with Adventure Zones is the same like with Raids at Warcraft.

It is content for maybe 5 or 10% of the playerbase, while the rest cant do it. Not because of the difficulty, but because of the 10% that want to keep all that content for themselves.
They demand items or achievements that you cant have unless you cleared the zone, they will demand specs that you wont play as TESO is clearly a "play as you want feature", they might even demand that you go to TS where you get shouted at as soon something goes wrong.

I have been raiding from Vanilla to TBC, in a world class guild with leader responsibilities and if you have the time and attitude for that type of "grinding" its great content.

But for a Casual and that is what most players are, this type of content is a waste of resources.
To just play for 3 or 4 consecutive hours is not possible for most players, especially those 20+.


I stand to my word that 70% or more could clear heroic raids at WOW just fine, yet only a few %, I believe 7 do it. This shows how broken these type of "raid systems" are. I left wow because of it, I didn't see the point in paying 12 bucks a month for content that I wont be able to enter.

In my opinion Adventure Zones should be open for everyone with events where players have to work together, like at Warhammer or DAOC and Ultima. Adjust the mobs to the amount of players in a zone, but leave the instancing and pre grouping out of that. I loved MMO´s where you entered a zone and then a huge boss walked your path and you now had to collect all forces to kill it.

It would be a real shame if Adventure Zones are just a synonym for Raids that don't work anymore in MMO´s. There is a reason why every MMO ships with group finding tools these days, people just don't have the time anymore to commit to raiding schedules.

Let players decide when they want to play and not a guild leader or other players

Arnathis

Audigy wrote: »

The big issue with Adventure Zones is the same like with Raids at Warcraft.

It is content for maybe 5 or 10% of the playerbase, while the rest cant do it. Not because of the difficulty, but because of the 10% that want to keep all that content for themselves.
They demand items or achievements that you cant have unless you cleared the zone, they will demand specs that you wont play as TESO is clearly a "play as you want feature", they might even demand that you go to TS where you get shouted at as soon something goes wrong.

I have been raiding from Vanilla to TBC, in a world class guild with leader responsibilities and if you have the time and attitude for that type of "grinding" its great content.

But for a Casual and that is what most players are, this type of content is a waste of resources.
To just play for 3 or 4 consecutive hours is not possible for most players, especially those 20+.


I stand to my word that 70% or more could clear heroic raids at WOW just fine, yet only a few %, I believe 7 do it. This shows how broken these type of "raid systems" are. I left wow because of it, I didn't see the point in paying 12 bucks a month for content that I wont be able to enter.

In my opinion Adventure Zones should be open for everyone with events where players have to work together, like at Warhammer or DAOC and Ultima. Adjust the mobs to the amount of players in a zone, but leave the instancing and pre grouping out of that. I loved MMO´s where you entered a zone and then a huge boss walked your path and you now had to collect all forces to kill it.

It would be a real shame if Adventure Zones are just a synonym for Raids that don't work anymore in MMO´s. There is a reason why every MMO ships with group finding tools these days, people just don't have the time anymore to commit to raiding schedules.

Let players decide when they want to play and not a guild leader or other players

You are the type of player that kills mmo's before they even get started. WoW was wildly successful with content that appealed to all types of players casual and hardcore alike. You're advocating ignoring the most loyal mmo player base there is because you can't stand the fact that someone can attain something you can't. I can't stand this mentality. If you don't have the time to commit to raids but there is still content you find fun to play whenever you're able to log in then whats the problem? If it's not jealousy then what is it? If there are varying degrees of difficulty for the same exact content just with different rewards then whats the problem if it's not just envy?

Casuals may make up the majority of the player base but the players that push harder content are the ones most likely to keep their subs over the long haul and not jump to the next fotm if you keep them happy with challenging and rewarding content. In turn, if you keep those players happy and keep content tough but fair it gives the rest of the player base something to work toward. The more hardcore players will blaze the path and figure out how to beat encounters and trickle that knowledge down to the rest of the community. Over time the rest of the community will see the content at their own pace and everyone is happy for the most part.

How many mmo's need to release with content geared solely toward the casual player and subsequently fail before you realize that some degree of difficulty and exclusivity is a good thing? You can make a piece of gear's tooltip purple and orange all you want but if everyone has it what does it matter? Why not just make them all white?

Audigy

You are the type of player that kills mmo's before they even get started. WoW was wildly successful with content that appealed to all types of players casual and hardcore alike. You're advocating ignoring the most loyal mmo player base there is because you can't stand the fact that someone can attain something you can't. I can't stand this mentality. If you don't have the time to commit to raids but there is still content you find fun to play whenever you're able to log in then whats the problem? If it's not jealousy then what is it? If there are varying degrees of difficulty for the same exact content just with different rewards then whats the problem if it's not just envy?

I don't think I need to be jealous to any raider of today, I cleared everything at Vanilla and TBC, made Rank 14 twice, participated in events and was actually sponsored

Fact however is, that such people like I was in Vanilla and TBC are a rare breed and its not worth it to tailor a full game towards them. Just look at wow for a second.

Its such a shame that 90% of the players never experience any HC raiding there, even the normal raiding is hardly attended, so are the challenge mode´s. That content however is paid by real money from Casual players, players that have no use from that content.

If you leave your "Oh you are jealous" type of nonsense for a second, what do you notice? You should notice that there is content that hardly anyone plays, but pays for.

That isn't a good idea and the reason why wow is bleeding subs.

Casuals may make up the majority of the player base but the players that push harder content are the ones most likely to keep their subs over the long haul and not jump to the next fotm if you keep them happy with challenging and rewarding content. In turn, if you keep those players happy and keep content tough but fair it gives the rest of the player base something to work toward. The more hardcore players will blaze the path and figure out how to beat encounters and trickle that knowledge down to the rest of the community. Over time the rest of the community will see the content at their own pace and everyone is happy for the most part.

That sadly doesn't work.

You assume that people struggle because of the difficulty, but that's not the case. Raiding at wow has been simplified throughout the years so that now also bad players who have enough time will succeed.
Raids these days are cleared during the very first ID, compare this to Vash at TBC where we worked weeks or Kael or Muru etc.

The problem is time and will always be time. If you have a family, job and kids then playing every week for 3 evenings just doesn't work anymore. Because of this those players who currently can´t attend that content, also wont be able attend it in future unless they lose their jobs, wife etc.

How many mmo's need to release with content geared solely toward the casual player and subsequently fail before you realize that some degree of difficulty and exclusivity is a good thing? You can make a piece of gear's tooltip purple and orange all you want but if everyone has it what does it matter? Why not just make them all white?

I don't know any MMO that is tailored towards Casuals and I played them all. Every MMO from today is about premade forming groups that raid. That's not Casual content as I explained above.

There was a time when Casuals had a real stand in MMO´s, where they mattered and could contribute towards a common goal at a server. Even the biggest Casual at SWG could contribute, so could he at DAOC or Ultima.

It was wow that started with the annihilation of Casuals and as I said, back then it was fine for me and I also never understood why Casuals complained as I was raiding everything.

Fact is however, that once you are a Casual yourself, you will notice how flawed MMO´s are that only face on raid content. Its just not working anymore, it didn't work 10 years ago and it does work even less now. The sub loss at wow shows this pretty well, people are tired of having only raid content, they don't pay for not having access to stuff.

Sure there are 100 maybe 200 pro gamer guilds that do HC raiding, but those are unable to keep an MMO alive.



Casuals matter and any company that ignores them will face the consequences. And please understand one last thing. Casuals are not bad, they just have less time - a mistake the nerds at wow also always do when they argue in regards of that topic.

So even if you have something like Flex at wow, Casuals wont be able to do it as its still the same 3 or 4 hour premade content.

jakenaftalb14a_ESO

stungateb14_ESO wrote: »

Canceled subscription. This kind of content creation is worthless to so many people I cannot/will not support a company that caters to a particular demography all the while promoting "play the way you want".

This game will be free to play within 2 years.

c ya

Glsabre

I think Craglorn is going to be awesome!! I can't wait to play it, though I'm not sure I will even be able to play for a while....

Arnathis

There's so many posts on here screaming for the easiest content possible that I'd love to rip to shreds but I don't have the time atm. All I'll say is that this is an mmo, not a single player game. It NEEDS to offer content for ALL play styles. That includes the player base that like to push themselves in tougher encounters.

I'll also add that those players are also the ones that tend to stick around and be loyal to a game if you offer them what they want.

Nobody is trying to take away your quests or tune all encounters so they take hours upon hours to learn. Don't try to take away what I enjoy before I even get it.